Powers of Search/ Stop and Search

The-Ry-Man06 · 10-03-2010 08:15PM #1

I am interested in finding out what the Law is regarding the powers of search for the Gardai and ordinary people. Under what circumstances can Gardai search your person/car/premises? I've read the 'powers of search' on the Citizens Information website and all it says is: 'Other legislation, for example, the Dublin Police Act, the Misuse of Drugs Act, the Criminal Law Act and the Animal Remedies Act, entitles police officers to search you and/or your vehicle without a warrant'. But it didnt clarify whether there was any stipulation to invoke these acts. I was just wondering as a couple of times in the past, myself and friends have been searched randomly both just walking in town and while driving. Its never been a problem as we've always co-operated and had the usual banter. I'm just interested whether we have any come back to being searched randomly without being told for what or why. It seems contradictiory to have legislation in place about the issueing of warrants when a Garda it seems randomly invoke this legislation. Also, With regard to the concept of 'reasonable suspicion', Is there any come back for the individual to claim that there really wasnt reasonable suspicion or can Gardai use this freely.

Lastly, Is there a situation where a person in a position of security such as a bouncer can search your person? This actually happened to me recently in a club and while I again co-coperated and got on fine, I'd still like t know my rights.

Permabear · 14-03-2010 11:44AM

This post has been deleted.

MagicSean · 14-03-2010 12:58PM

As far as i know a bouncer gives you a choice. submit to search or leave the premises. As for the gardaí there are a lot of reasons for search. Firearms Act and Miduse Drugs Act are the most common. Gardaí must have reasonable suspicion that an offence under either act is being comitted i think. If you are found with something on you you can always argue the grounds for the search in court. But dont confuse a power of search with a Garda who asks you if you will empty your pockets. A garda can ask anyone if they will submit to a voluntary search without needing any legislation. You can always refuse if you feel that way inclined.

Locust · 14-03-2010 05:56PM

You can argue the concept of the gardai not having any 'reasonable suspicion' to search you but the fact remains that its such a broad concept and is easily invoked. They may have had a phone call about suspicious activity, lads with drugs or weapons or whatever it is, a check of the car you were driving could have been connected with selling drugs from a past owner etc a range of things. A caller to the Gardai may have given a sweeping description of what the culprits looked like similar to yours drawing suspicion. Perhaps the street you were walking down was known to Gardai as being a spot drugs are being sold/bought or you were walking down a street at an unusual hour where a lot of burglaries have been taking place you can unknowingly draw suspicion to yourself.
Next time you are stopped and they search you - politely ask why and what they are looking for and can you help! ha! See what they say.

As said i know bouncers usually won't feel happy letting you in if you refuse a search on safety grounds. If you refuse a search suspicions naturally increase.

Mr. Incognito · 15-03-2010 07:50PM

Bouncers have no legal right to search you. If they wish you to be searched and you submit to the search they have to have a guard do it. They can ask you to leave the premises if you refuse a search.

If I was asked by a bouncer to submit to a search I would say no problem as long as a guard does it. You'll probably get bounced for this but no way would I let a bouncer search me.

Bosco boy · 16-03-2010 10:16PM

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Bouncers have no legal right to search you. If they wish you to be searched and you submit to the search they have to have a guard do it. They can ask you to leave the premises if you refuse a search.

If I was asked by a bouncer to submit to a search I would say no problem as long as a guard does it. You'll probably get bounced for this but no way would I let a bouncer search me.

It would be interesting to see how the equality tribunal people would view this if you went to them with a complaint about being refused admission to a bar or club. I.E In the case of travellers they generally claim it was because they were a traveller. There are nine grounds for discrimination, I suspect the bouncer would have to explain why he asked u to submit to a search and his lack of powers to search you would leave him or his employers wide open to the tribunal, He will have to give a reason. I wonder if any such cases have been brought?

dermot_sheehan · 17-03-2010 05:21PM

The-Ry-Man06 wrote: »

I am interested in finding out what the Law is regarding the powers of search for the Gardai and ordinary people. Under what circumstances can Gardai search your person/car/premises? I've read the 'powers of search' on the Citizens Information website and all it says is: 'Other legislation, for example, the Dublin Police Act, the Misuse of Drugs Act, the Criminal Law Act and the Animal Remedies Act, entitles police officers to search you and/or your vehicle without a warrant'. But it didnt clarify whether there was any stipulation to invoke these acts. I was just wondering as a couple of times in the past, myself and friends have been searched randomly both just walking in town and while driving. Its never been a problem as we've always co-operated and had the usual banter. I'm just interested whether we have any come back to being searched randomly without being told for what or why. It seems contradictiory to have legislation in place about the issueing of warrants when a Garda it seems randomly invoke this legislation. Also, With regard to the concept of 'reasonable suspicion', Is there any come back for the individual to claim that there really wasnt reasonable suspicion or can Gardai use this freely.

Lastly, Is there a situation where a person in a position of security such as a bouncer can search your person? This actually happened to me recently in a club and while I again co-coperated and got on fine, I'd still like t know my rights.

off the top of my head s. 23 Misuse of drugs act is the one must commonly used. There is also s. 30 offences against the person act and s. 16 offensive weapons act which all allow searches without a warrant.

The requirement under s. 23 is that the garda "with reasonable cause suspects " possession of a controlled drug.

It's nearly impossible to rebut this in court as all the garda needs to do is say due to intelligence and his experience of the area, he suspected the defendant had drugs on him. That grounds the lawfullness of the search no matter what is found.

Theoretically you could sue a garda for battery for an unlawful search. It would be nearly impossible to show the garda did not have a resonable suspicion however.

The-Ry-Man06 · 20-04-2010 05:46PM

They're some great answers cheers lads. Sort of what I was expecting. In this context it seems quite ridiculos to even bother argueing against reasonable suspicion. I supose it helps the gardai do their job and have a serious presence on the streets.

Powers of Search/ Stop and Search

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