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How do you feel about virgins.

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    #32
    Raze_them_all
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,477 ✭✭✭✭Raze_them_all


    Odysseus wrote: »
    I somewhat agree with the alarm bells viewpoint, but on a different level. My work brings me some insight into people sexual behaviour, so I am generally quite open around any legal expression of sexuality [this does not mean I engage in it].

    Whilst there is clearly nothing wrong with being a virgin at 25 or even older, it would be in my experience out of the normal range. It would be like hearing anything else about a persons sexuality that was somewhat out of normal range; like a unusal fetish. However, I wouldn't form an opinion on the person just based on that characteristic. So maybe not alarm bells, but it might raise an eyebrow
    Aren't all fetishes by definition out of the normal range?


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    #33
    Odysseus
    Registered Users Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    Raze_them_all wrote: »
    Aren't all fetishes by definition out of the normal range?


    Depends on how its used, psychotherapeutically your spot on, as the particular item is required for the act to occur; however, in general usage the definition is usually widened to include particular strong interests/desires. Would you agree?


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    #34
    Herbal Deity
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭Herbal Deity


    Raze_them_all wrote: »
    Aren't all fetishes by definition out of the normal range?
    Afaik a fetish is the association of sexual arousal with something other than a human.

    So a normal fetish would be lingerie or underwear, whereas an unusual fetish might be something like leather or latex (although both of those seem popular enough).


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    #35
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    Raze_them_all wrote: »
    Aren't all fetishes by definition out of the normal range?

    normal range defined how?

    They are with the normal range of human sexuality.


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    #36
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    I'd prefer a virgin, only because I am one myself so maybe she wouldn't realise how ****e I was til I was well away. :pac:


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    #37
    Dr Galen
    Registered Users Posts: 7,373 ✭✭✭Dr Galen


    lets not get into the fetish thing. The thread is dealing specifically with virginity and virgins. I think the discussion about fetishes is probably better suited to the S&S forum than here tbh.


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    #38
    Thomas828
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭Thomas828


    Well, I'm a virgin myself, so meeting a virgin woman of any age wouldn't bother me. I never bothered looking for sex, first because I was too shy and inhibited and now because I just can't be bothered any more. I wonder what would happen if, in the afterlife, as Mullahs and Imams promise, I do meet all the huri (virgins of paradise). I suppose there wouldn't much in the way of sex involved.


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    #39
    NothingMan
    Registered Users Posts: 11,178 ✭✭✭✭NothingMan


    I waited a fair while considering the chances I had as a teenager. When I was 17/18 I was with 2 girls who were not virgins and both wanted to do it pretty soon. One I didn't want to and the other I never felt I had the right moment (ie. Not in my mams room with 50 other people getting drunk around the house). Was with another girl when I was 19 and by that point I reeeeaaalllyyyy wanted to, but she was 17 and wasn't ready so that was fine.

    Eventually did lose it with my gf when I was 20 and it was awkward and took some practice but 4 years on we've pretty much got the hang of it ;). I do sometimes look back at some of the smokin girls I was with that I didn't do it with and wish I had but there is a certain comfort in knowing me and my gf have only ever had sex with each other, although neither of us were exactly inexperienced sexually, just never had the full act.


    On a side note when I was 18, I got up from a bed and walked away from a guaranteed threesome cos I was nervous and didn't know what to do. Man do I kick myself for that one!


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    #40
    Icky Thump
    Closed Accounts Posts: 937 ✭✭✭Icky Thump


    to be honest im happy if any girl wants to have sex with me so i dont care about her been a virgin:D


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    #41
    Boston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    Wow, a lot of jumping to conclusion. If I met a 25 year old who was a virgin I'd suspect their attitude towards sex was not in-line with my attitude towards sex. I'm a big believer in only having sex when it means something, not just the first time, but if someone has elevated virginity to a lofty high and turned it into this "gift" they have to bestow upon a deserving mate, well frankly, we're incompatible. Even this (as one poster put it) "giving someone your virginity" is completely ridiculous, as it suggest losing ones virginity is a kin to losing something of value.

    Add to that the fact I've done the virgin thing and personally I'd rather someone with some experience.


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    #42
    Boston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    nedtheshed wrote: »
    We are a pretty open society in terms of sex and sexuality so why would she feel it neccessary to lie?

    I reckon it would be more plausible that she could lie about not being a virgin ie she may feel inexperienced,inadequte etc etc.

    Im not too sure what exactly you are asking though.
    :confused:

    We do not live in a pretty open society. We live in a very closed mouth one, people may be shagging left right and centre, but theres still an attitude that having sex outside marriage is bad and something not to be talked about, especially across genders.
    koth wrote: »

    From my own point of view I'm a virgin still because I seem to have a knack for falling for women that have no interest in me. Obviously I don't know that at the time, it just seems to reach the point where they aren't interested.

    Don't take this the wrong way but that would be one reason why alarm bells would be ringing with me. If I heard that account for why a person is a virgin I'd conclude that the chap in question liked setting up no hope situations for himself that never went anywhere, and that maybe getting involved was a waste of time.
    Jemmy wrote: »
    Because they made a choice not to shag the first person that came along, and waited til they were in a committed loving relationship? I don't see the problem with that at all. I've had 2 BFs that were virgins when I met them, it didnt change my opinion of them when it came around to being intimate later in the relationship.

    Thats it is it? Those two extremes, shag everyone or only have sex in meaningful loving relationships.
    Milly10 wrote: »
    Why would alarm bells be ringing?
    I myself am a 22 year old girl and also a virgin. I don't mean to sound vain in any way but I receive alot of attention from men and I think this plays a huge part in the reason for me remaining a virgin until now.. alot of men, 90% I would imagine, just want sex.
    It's not something Im particularly proud of, in fact I find it a bit embarassing and really don't think I would admit it to my virginity to any future partners. I don't have any issues, apart from being fussy and not wanting to sleep with 'just anyone', so why would a man have a problem with a virgin?? I suppose I could ask myself then why I would be embarrassed about being one!

    You've a weird impression of men. That there these crude emotionless beast who don't care for love nor companionship. Yes, men want sex, if you'd had it, changes are you too would also want to have it. Some times young men see sex as the goal, but they grow out of it after a while.
    Jemmy wrote: »

    I agree I would be a little surprised too considering people attitude towards sex these days, but to say alarm bells would start ringing?! It gives the impression there may be a problem or something wrong with them for being a virgin.

    No, but being a virgin may be a sign of some other issue, such as an unwillingness to committee to a relationship or some deep seeded sexual hang up.
    Thaedydal wrote: »
    It's funny, the "acceptable" number for women to have had as previous partners has shifted a little but not a lot. It's gone form none to 2/3 but only if the loved them and were in a relationship.

    Interesting, you'll notice that the idea of women having sex in a loving relationship as being better then casual hook ups was first put forward in this thread by a woman?


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    #43
    Herbal Deity
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭Herbal Deity


    The expression "alarm bells" would tend to indicate that one would think there was something very wrong with the person in question as opposed to mere incompatibility.

    I agree with your above post though.


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    #44
    Snowie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,048 ✭✭✭✭Snowie


    Its not something that would cause me to raise an eyebrow...


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    #45
    Odysseus
    Registered Users Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    Mystik Monkey wrote: »
    lets not get into the fetish thing. The thread is dealing specifically with virginity and virgins. I think the discussion about fetishes is probably better suited to the S&S forum than here tbh.

    Sorry that was my fault, I was just using that term as a way of formalising my thoughts around the topic in question.


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    #46
    Mr. Presentable
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,496 ✭✭✭Mr. Presentable


    So long as she hasn't shagged Boston, who cares?


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    #47
    AnnyHallsal
    Registered Users Posts: 4,117 ✭✭✭AnnyHallsal


    Iago wrote: »
    From a womans point of view, they don't want to be seen as easy or frigid.
    That frigid word is horrible, and very rarely accurate. In my experience it was vengefully lashed at girls who rejected young fellas they weren't interested in. May we hope for a world in which girls don't worry about being called "frigid." Or easy.

    I had a few (male) virgins in time. Obviously you judge on a case by case basis. It isn't a deal breaker for me. Endearing in the right person.


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    #48
    Boston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    Well yea, wrong for me. Virginity in and of itself (bar the lack of experience thing) is no issue for me, but I'm not going to get involved with someone whose entire sex image revolves around being a virgin. I've met two women for which this was the case. They went to lengths to point out their virginity to all who met them.

    Another thing, when you hear people talk about waiting for "the one" run a mile. The one will often be this completely idealised image of a man or woman which bares absolutely connection to how real people actual are.

    I say this btw, as someone who has turned down many an offer of sex (as is natural for most people) including my first opportunity to loose my virginity, simply because the people were not right.
    nipplenuts wrote: »
    So long as she hasn't shagged Boston, who cares?

    Fear not.
    AnnyHallsal wrote: »
    That frigid word is horrible, and very rarely accurate. In my experience it was vengefully lashed at girls who rejected young fellas they weren't interested in. May we hope for a world in which girls don't worry about being called "frigid." Or easy.

    I had a few (male) virgins in time. Obviously you judge on a case by case basis. It isn't a deal breaker for me. Endearing in the right person.

    Tell me, which gender do you think uses words like frigid and easy/slut/whore/slag more often?


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    #49
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,163 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    While a virgin wouldn't put me off, I would prefer someone who had some experience.
    If the plan is to go racing in Mondello, I'd like them to at least be able to drive a car.


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    #50
    AnnyHallsal
    Registered Users Posts: 4,117 ✭✭✭AnnyHallsal


    Boston wrote: »
    (bar the lack of experience thing)
    That's amusing. It's not only employers who insist on experience these days ;) I understand your reservations, though I think it's a little harsh. Sexual compatibility is crucial to a relationship but most pairs of people have to get accustomed to each other's quirks regardless of how many shags they've had in the past. The virgin could be a natural ;) Also, some girls have sex for the wrong reasons and can have all kinds of neuroses virgins may be innocent of.


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    #51
    AnnyHallsal
    Registered Users Posts: 4,117 ✭✭✭AnnyHallsal


    Boston wrote: »
    Tell me, which gender do you think uses words like frigid and easy/slut/whore/slag more often?
    Male, in my experience.


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    #52
    Bottle_of_Smoke
    Registered Users Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    If a girl was 20/21 and a virgin it would be fine. If she was older than that it would suggest to me that she hasn't got a high sex drive, and I couldn't have a long term relationship with someone like that.

    Fear that she's not good in bed wouldn't come into it. Was previously seeing a girl who was a virgin prior to me and yeah to begin with sex wasn't relatively great(though still quite great!) but we were together for a while and I'd now regard sleeping with her as the best sex I've had


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    #53
    AnnyHallsal
    Registered Users Posts: 4,117 ✭✭✭AnnyHallsal


    Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »
    If she was older than that it would suggest to me that she hasn't got a high sex drive, and I couldn't have a long term relationship with someone like that.

    It may have nothing to do with drive. They might love it once they got started
    Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »
    Was previously seeing a girl who was a virgin prior to me and yeah to begin with sex wasn't relatively great(though still quite great!) but we were together for a while and I'd now regard sleeping with her as the best sex I've had

    That's quite usual.

    The one qualification I would make is if they didn't believe in sex before marriage. Everything else (in and out of the bedroom) would have to be fantastic for that to be considered.


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    #54
    Boston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,163 ✭✭✭✭Boston


    AnnyHallsal wrote: »
    That's amusing. It's not only employers who insist on experience these days ;) I understand your reservations, though I think it's a little harsh. Sexual compatibility is crucial to a relationship but most pairs of people have to get accustomed to each other's quirks regardless of how many shags they've had in the past. The virgin could be a natural ;) Also, some girls have sex for the wrong reasons and can have all kinds of neuroses virgins may be innocent of.

    Lack of sexual experience also means there's a lack of sexual maturity and the ability to handle the new emotions sex can bring about in a person, in a positive manor. You mention that some girls do it for the wrong reasons, and that this can bring about neuroses which virgin maybe free of. An example might be using sex within a relationship as a device for control. But people who place over emphases on virginity are doing the exact same thing. Instead of sex (or the thread of withdrawing sex) being used to control, the lack of sex is being used.


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    #55
    Bottle_of_Smoke
    Registered Users Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    AnnyHallsal wrote: »
    It may have nothing to do with drive. They might love it once they got started

    Yes and no. I think sex drive is more based on urges than how you feel after the act. As I said I think it would suggest they don't have a high sex drive. Gonna be exceptions of course.


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    #56
    cocoa
    Registered Users Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭cocoa


    I'd say what's more important to me anyway is attitude. There's a big difference between someone who hasn't had sex and someone who's saved their virginity. I'd be worried about anyone who regarded virginity as a thing you can possess (like an ice cream or intelligence), or that's worth possessing in and of itself. Perhaps worried is the wrong word, but I'd certainly be wary of a relationship with such a large difference of viewpoint...


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    #57
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,739 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    Boston wrote: »
    Don't take this the wrong way but that would be one reason why alarm bells would be ringing with me. If I heard that account for why a person is a virgin I'd conclude that the chap in question liked setting up no hope situations for himself that never went anywhere, and that maybe getting involved was a waste of time.
    No worries. It's something I've considered myself and have to figure out how I keep getting it wrong.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #58
    AnnyHallsal
    Registered Users Posts: 4,117 ✭✭✭AnnyHallsal


    Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »
    Yes and no. I think sex drive is more based on urges than how you feel after the act. As I said I think it would suggest they don't have a high sex drive.
    Drive is about how often you want to have sex. If you're deferring sex for ethical reasons your drive hasn't been tested. How often they masturbate would be a better guide, though I wouldn't fancy posing that question..

    Boston wrote: »
    Lack of sexual experience also means there's a lack of sexual maturity and the ability to handle the new emotions sex can bring about in a person, in a positive manor.
    Sexual maturity? I don't think there's any such thing. People who sleep around can be just as emotionally messy as those who don't, as I said.

    Boston wrote: »
    You mention that some girls do it for the wrong reasons, and that this can bring about neuroses which virgin maybe free of. An example might be using sex within a relationship as a device for control.
    I was thinking more of those who have sex when actually in search of love or acceptance.


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    #59
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    Thaedydal wrote: »
    Where as a man who has a lot of partners when he's in his 20s is sewing his wild oats and getting it out of his system and experiencing life and women so he knows what he wants when he settles down.
    Galvasean wrote: »
    I would agree. Heaven forbid a woman should enjoy a bit of casual sex the same way most men do.
    Heck, I've known people with no previous sexual partners who have cheated on their other halfs.

    See this is something that does my nut in. Why, since women have been giving out about men being sluts for eons, do all of a sudden women suddenly want to be just like them ? Seriously when I see this kind of statement I almost get borderline offended. Just because I, or anyone else is male does not mean we are some hormone driven beast trying to mount everything that moves - for thats the hidden assumption behind these kind of statements. But not all men are like that - some of us actually also consider it pretty dumb to carry on like that. Equally not all women are pious prudes who will some day bear their "wifely duties".

    If you ask me
    Guy who sleeps with 50 women = idiot
    Gal who sleeps with 50 men = idiot

    Now don't get me wrong here. I have no problem with someone I'm dating having had a number of partners. And that number might vary depending on someones age and backstory and thats fair enough.
    But frankly once that number gets out of the range you might expect for that person in the context of their story and starts getting into the 'sowing of wild oats' territory, well then honesly - I don't want to be getting involved with someone who is that emotionally wreckless with themselves (for want of a better way of putting it).


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    #60
    vicecreamsundae
    Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭vicecreamsundae


    to you, having sex with many partners may be "emotionally reckless". to others, it's not. many people can enjoy emotionally charged sex with some partners and still have casual sex with no emotions attached with others.

    also, when women complain about being called sluts, they are not complaining about women being promiscuous, they are saying they should be free to have consensual sex with as many or as few partners as they like without having a derogatory label applied to them in a way they are not applied to males who sleep with similar numbers.

    but i understand your frustration with hearing men constantly being represented as "hormone driven beasts", and "sowing their wild oats" etc.. it is a stereotype that is thrown around a lot, and personally i know a lot of guys who don't live up to it. i think when it's used it's not so much to say that men ARE like that, and more to point out that it's socially acceptable for men to be like that if they want, without being subject to as much criticism as women.


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    #61
    vicecreamsundae
    Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭vicecreamsundae


    and personally, i would not be directly turned off a guy if he was a virgin, but i would be curious about the reasons, and if those reasons were opinions on sex and virginity that differed greatly from mine, that might turn me off.

    it's funny because i was actually a loooong time technical virgin myself, in a relationship. but my whole attitude towards sex has completely turned around in the last few years. thankfully!


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