Aston Villa -V- Man United - 28th Feb

JPA · 01-03-2010 01:16PM

Trilla wrote: »

IF Owen runningTowards(villaGoal)
AND Owen has(ball)
AND Collins = lastVillaman
AND Collins naughtyNaughtyBringsDown(Owen)
= SendingOff

It doesnt matter if Owen is on the halfway line, he was denied taking on the keeper and a chance of a clear shot on goal one one.

Vidic should have got the line. So should have Collins. End of

Unless you're on a wind up, you don't understand the rules.

01-03-2010 01:19PM

I might have to see it again but didn't Agbonlahor hit his final touch right into Kusczak's arms? But I said at the time it should've been red and I still feel it probably should've been red.

tbh, sometimes you see refs not give cards early in games to try and let it settle a bit, I think this may be similar.

cournioni · 01-03-2010 01:20PM

SlickRic wrote: »

ludicrous logic.

i'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're joking or biased.

I am joking of course, I just find it funny how JPA sees Vidic's tackle as denying a more obvious goalscoring opportunity than Collins' tackle. Owen was clean through on Friedel but for Collins' tackle on him that basically stopped that goalscoring opportunity, and yet he see's Vidic's challenge as denying Agbonlahor a more obvious goalscoring opportunity even though the ball was going away from him when Vidic made his challenge.

It's either a goalscoring opportunity or it isn't. In my opinon both were, and both should have resulted in red cards, the referee bottled it because it was a cup final at Wembley.

Classic case of tinted specs. Fact is, 11 vs. 11, Villa couldn't match United on the pitch yesterday and there is some serious straw clutching going on here from some Villa fans and some ABU's.

cournioni · 01-03-2010 01:23PM

JPA wrote: »

Unless you're on a wind up, you don't understand the rules.

I'd be interested in hearing your version of the rules so...

messrs · 01-03-2010 01:24PM

everyone can aruge here as long as the like whether phil dowd made the right or wrong decision on vidic, its never going to change the fact - he didnt red card vidic - and man u won
end of storey - deal with it

SlickRic · 01-03-2010 01:30PM

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

Owen was clean through

yes, but he had a long way to turn and go before having a definite clear goalscoring opportunity.

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

It's either a goalscoring opportunity or it isn't. In my opinon both were, and both should have resulted in red cards, the referee bottled it because it was a cup final at Wembley.

bullcr*p.

Collins' was a yellow.

Utd were definitely the better the team on the day, but there's a mile of difference between the opportunity Owen had and the one Gabby had. one was definitely resulting in a shot on goal, the other would probably have resulted in a cross.

CSF · 01-03-2010 01:33PM

Where can I purchase a set of these lovely red goggles?

cournioni · 01-03-2010 01:37PM

SlickRic wrote: »

yes, but he had a long way to turn and go before having a definite clear goalscoring opportunity.

bullcr*p.

Collins' was a yellow.

Utd were definitely the better the team on the day, but there's a mile of difference between the opportunity Owen had and the one Gabby had. one was definitely resulting in a shot on goal, the other would probably have resulted in a cross.

I'm sorry, there is no way I am going to agree with you there. Both were clear goalscoring opportunities and both should have resulted in red cards. I'm glad they didn't to be honest, no one likes to see players sent off.

You are completely deluded if you think that Owens run would have only resulted in a cross. He was clean through and the angle he was at was actually not much different to that of Agbonlahor's, except for the fact that Owen had control of the ball.

SlickRic · 01-03-2010 01:42PM

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

You are completely deluded if you think that Owens run would have only resulted in a cross. He was clean through and the angle he was at was actually not much different to that of Agbonlahor's, except for the fact that Owen had control of the ball.

Owen was 25 yards out at an angle of 45 degrees to the goal, and had just touched the ball to the side of the area.

Gabby was in the area no more than 10 yards out.

there's a world of difference.

it doesn't matter a jot, so i've no idea why you insist they were the same.

just say you got fortunate and be done with it, rather than deflecting to an incident that was a clear yellow. it's ok. nobody will think less of you if you admit utd were a little fortunate with refereeing decisions. it doesn't mean utd didn't deserve it thereafter.

because as i say, it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. the trophy is in the cabinet.

JPA · 01-03-2010 01:42PM

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

I am joking of course, I just find it funny how JPA sees Vidic's tackle as denying a more obvious goalscoring opportunity than Collins' tackle. Owen was clean through on Friedel but for Collins' tackle on him that basically stopped that goalscoring opportunity, and yet he see's Vidic's challenge as denying Agbonlahor a more obvious goalscoring opportunity even though the ball was going away from him when Vidic made his challenge.

It's either a goalscoring opportunity or it isn't. In my opinon both were, and both should have resulted in red cards, the referee bottled it because it was a cup final at Wembley.

Classic case of tinted specs. Fact is, 11 vs. 11, Villa couldn't match United on the pitch yesterday and there is some serious straw clutching going on here from some Villa fans and some ABU's.

I hate these arguments because the game is lost and that won't change.
But Owen was not heading for goal so that is why it was just a yellow. Agbonlahor being in the box was obviously a better chance to score.
Why Vidic got away without even a yellow is still unknown.

Nalz · 01-03-2010 02:13PM

JPA wrote: »

Unless you're on a wind up, you don't understand the rules.

Explain to me where I got it wrong then. Don't just say Owen wasn't going in on goal and running away/side of the goal/box. That wasn't specified in my post that you quoted because I thought Owen was on route to goal.

Also there is no rules as such, they are laws of the game.

From what I remember if he had beaten Collins "tackle" then he would have ended up one on one with the keeper in the penalty area seconds after that.

As said it doesn't matter now as the game has finished, but I'd like to know where you think I'm going wrong in my post.

thanks

Mitch Connor · 01-03-2010 02:15PM

Trilla wrote: »

Explain to me where I got it wrong then. Don't just say Owen wasn't going in on goal and running away/side of the goal/box. That wasn't specified in my post that you quoted because I thought Owen was on route to goal.

Also there is no rules as such, they are laws of the game.

From what I remember if he had beaten Collins "tackle" then he would have ended up one on one with the keeper in the penalty area seconds after that.

As said it doesn't matter now as the game has finished, but I'd like to know where you think I'm going wrong in my post.

thanks

At the time of the tackle, Owen was not moving towards the goal. it is that simple. He was headed down the side of the pitch, outside the box. Maybe he would have gotten in a shot at goal, but not without changing direction.

JPA · 01-03-2010 02:17PM

Trilla wrote: »

Explain to me where I got it wrong then. Don't just say Owen wasn't going in on goal and running away/side of the goal/box. That wasn't specified in my post that you quoted because I thought Owen was on route to goal.

Also there is no rules as such, they are laws of the game.

From what I remember if he had beaten Collins "tackle" then he would have ended up one on one with the keeper in the penalty area seconds after that.

As said it doesn't matter now as the game has finished, but I'd like to know where you think I'm going wrong in my post.

thanks

Because Owen was wide of the goal it is not an obvious goal scoring opportunity, he wasn't heading for the goal, he was straight for the byline. Now you can say he would have turned and headed towards goal but it is not the referees job to interpret how things might have happened, just how things did happen and Owen was not in an obvious goal scoring position when he was fouled.

Nalz · 01-03-2010 02:27PM

JPA wrote: »

Because Owen was wide of the goal it is not an obvious goal scoring opportunity, he wasn't heading for the goal, he was straight for the byline. Now you can say he would have turned and headed towards goal but it is not the referees job to interpret how things might have happened, just how things did happen and Owen was not in an obvious goal scoring position when he was fouled.

Ok if this is the case then ok. I seem to remember Owen running towards the goal, I will look at it again. If I'm wrong apologies. At the time it looked like

However with this logic, and going slightly Off topic here, but lets say for agruement sake Agbonlahor turns his back on goal with the ball (during his incident) then Vidic takes him down, is that a red card?

SantryRed · 01-03-2010 02:29PM

The most hilarious thing about this argument is that if Vidic did get sent off Owen would probably have been sacrificed to get four at the back.

Peyton Manning · 01-03-2010 02:40PM

Trilla wrote: »

However with this logic, and going slightly Off topic here, but lets say for agruement sake Agbonlahor turns his back on goal with the ball (during his incident) then Vidic takes him down, is that a red card?

Like he actually did - I see what you've done here

JPA · 01-03-2010 02:44PM

Archimedez wrote: »

Like he actually did - I see what you've done here

That didn't happen though, he didn't turn his back.

Nalz · 01-03-2010 02:50PM

Archimedez wrote: »

Like he actually did - I see what you've done here

Did he? Dont think he did. He kinda turned to the side alright but Vidic was pulling away at his shirt.

It is interesting though that if he had have turned away that would be the difference between red and yellow/none.

Peyton Manning · 01-03-2010 03:09PM

He kind of turned away from his original direction. He was running straight towards goal, then had a poor touch and ended up facing a good bit wide of the goal. Still, I do agree it was an obvious red card, and had Vidic stayed on his feet and got goal side of him after the poor touch, who knows what would have happened.

JimsAlterEgo · 01-03-2010 03:31PM

IMO - rather that compare with the owen incident yesterday it is more comparible with the Carragher Own incident earlie this season

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnkTHJsSK1o

ball goes to 6 yard box line

L'prof · 01-03-2010 03:36PM

Here's Poll's opinion.

SlickRic · 01-03-2010 03:44PM

jasonorr wrote: »

Here's Poll's opinion.

he should really tell us what the law says then.

then tell us why it wasn't a sending off.

smart arse.

Peyton Manning · 01-03-2010 03:46PM

jasonorr wrote: »

Here's Poll's opinion.

Graham "3 yellow cards = 1 red" Poll?

Mitch Connor · 01-03-2010 03:46PM

SlickRic wrote: »

he should really tell us what the law says then.

smart arse.

Really wierd article.

headline says he was right not to give Vidic a red card, but doesn't actually explain that reasoning (really) within the article.

As said on red cafe, Poll would have given him two yellows.

L'prof · 01-03-2010 03:46PM

SlickRic wrote: »

he should really tell us what the law says then.

then tell us why it wasn't a sending off.

smart arse.

I think he kind of did, that to deny a goalscoring opportunity, the player must be heading towards goal and that there is no mention of last man back in the rules.

JPA · 01-03-2010 03:48PM

Seems to ignore that the direction Gabby was heading was changed by Vidic pulling the shirt off his back.

L'prof · 01-03-2010 03:48PM

Archimedez wrote: »

Graham "3 yellow cards = 1 red" Poll?

You can make a mistake in a game but, getting to review an incident multiple times while knowing the rules is a completely different thing!

Doodee · 01-03-2010 03:49PM

The arguement that he was not denying him a goal scoring opportunity is invalid as Vidic committed 2 fouls, the first was the shirt pulling which started when Abby was through on goal, the second was the outstretched leg to take the player down.

L'prof · 01-03-2010 03:49PM

JPA wrote: »

Seems to ignore that the direction Gabby was heading was changed by Vidic pulling the shirt off his back.

He didn't, he mentioned that that could be argued but, he still didn't see a red!

SlickRic · 01-03-2010 03:50PM

jasonorr wrote: »

I think he kind of did, that to deny a goalscoring opportunity, the player must be heading towards goal and that there is no mention of last man back in the rules.

so anyone within 50 yards, facing goal, can, within the laws, be sent off if the refs wants? seen as by his interpretation then, it's completely up to the ref to judge the goalscoring opportunity.

the area gets depressingly grey if that's the case.

Aston Villa -V- Man United - 28th Feb

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