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Spare a thought for Barry

12467…12

Comments

  • #92
    WalterMitty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,582 ✭✭✭WalterMitty


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    Vodafone seem to have done that with my broadband already, and I haven't yet reduced my subscription (>30 breaks in connection in January).

    [Sorry. I briefly forgot this was a public sector-sector bashing thread, where everything private sector is deemed good. I'll try to remember in future.]
    no one said the private sector was always great but unlike the public sector if they dont do things efficiently and at lowest possible cost then they go wallop. You rarely if ever see cost of things coming down in public sector yet private sector always strives to offer lower prices to compete. The areas that arent falling in this recession/depression are nearly all state /semi state sector (medical, esb, gas, transport etc). The type of capitalism we had/have in ireland is not to be confused with proper well regulated free market capitalism, it was FF led crony cowboy capitalism . Where real competition exist it has been proven to drive efficiency , and im not saying everything should be or can be privatised.


  • #93
    WalterMitty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,582 ✭✭✭WalterMitty


    PS
    The cost of telecommunications provided by the likes of Vodafone and other private companies has fallen consistenly and dramatically over past 20 years. Remember the prices of making calls when eircom was run by state! You'd spend a weeks wages calling the family in America at xmas. Imagine if state companies were responsible for making PCs etc! We'd still all be using commodore 64s and there would be a 2 year waiting list for one! there just isnt the incentive for state workers to be efficient or dynamic and most get caught in the mindset of keeping the status quo in place, do your time, get your increments, get your pension and service delivery is of little concern


  • #94
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    WalterMitty wrote: »
    no one said the private sector was always great but unlike the public sector if they dont do things efficiently and at lowest possible cost then they go wallop. You rarely if ever see cost of things coming down in public sector yet private sector always strives to offer lower prices to compete. The areas that arent falling in this recession/depression are nearly all state /semi state sector (medical, esb, gas, transport etc). The type of capitalism we had/have in ireland is not to be confused with proper well regulated free market capitalism, it was FF led crony cowboy capitalism . Where real competition exist it has been proven to drive efficiency , and im not saying everything should be or can be privatised.

    Jaysus! I thought I was indulging in a little whimsical irony, and I seem instead to have been trailing my coat.

    The private sector always strives to offer lower prices to compete? Where have you been for the past couple of years? We had a housing bubble while you were away.

    What is "proper well regulated free market capitalism" other than an oxymoron?


  • #95
    WalterMitty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,582 ✭✭✭WalterMitty


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    Jaysus! I thought I was indulging in a little whimsical irony, and I seem instead to have been trailing my coat.

    The private sector always strives to offer lower prices to compete? Where have you been for the past couple of years? We had a housing bubble while you were away.

    What is "proper well regulated free market capitalism" other than an oxymoron?
    As i said things werent /arent well run here. Capitalism like any economic system evolves. The housing bubble was fueled by poorly regulated(public sector regulators) allowing banks to COMPETE and offer CHEAP credit, too cheap and too much credit in fact. Most other developed economies didnt suffer as much as ireland so obviously their regulation worked. If we had all public sector banks in this country we'd still have a standard of living of 1940s and the only person who would get a loan would be the friends of politicians.


  • #96
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,356 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    Vodafone seem to have done that with my broadband already, and I haven't yet reduced my subscription (>30 breaks in connection in January).

    [Sorry. I briefly forgot this was a public sector-sector bashing thread, where everything private sector is deemed good. I'll try to remember in future.]

    If you had the efficiency of the private sector then you'd have changed provider but as a unionised public sector worker reforms are unavailable to you....

    Glad to remind you....


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  • #97
    Count Dooku
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,419 ✭✭✭Count Dooku


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    Jaysus! I thought I was indulging in a little whimsical irony, and I seem instead to have been trailing my coat.

    The private sector always strives to offer lower prices to compete? Where have you been for the past couple of years? We had a housing bubble while you were away.
    Unfortunately, it was only one option available to get money when public servants were demanding to double payroll bill

    It was typical example of using unregulated capitalism to subsidize socialism within public services
    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    What is "proper well regulated free market capitalism" other than an oxymoron?
    It means that regulation will be done by competent civil servants, which will be able to identify bubbles on early stages and warn public in advance, not wait until everybody will understand it himself
    Unfortunately, our well paid staff in Central bank was too busy, while they were traveling around the world with their spouses on taxpayers expanse.


  • #98
    MaceFace
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭MaceFace


    Smiegal wrote: »
    I Love it!!! Your talkin about capitalists now??? Tell ya what... I actually agree with you!!!!!!! But instead of further cutting wages because we cant afford to pay, we should in fact do what our wonderfull Irish Private sector has done and slash public sector jobs right across the board... Yeah it'll mean mean public service will come to a complete grinding halt (afterall plenty of core areas were understaffed even before the recruitment freeze), but sure how bad.... I mean if you cant pay for a service... well, you simply cant have it....
    yes - lets slash jobs. Example - in the mid 90's there were 30 admin staff in the Dublin Fire Brigade. Today there is over 150.
    Smiegal wrote: »
    Think I'm going to ring up Vodafone tomorrow and tell thm Im not earning as much as I used to be so I'll be paying them 24% less going forward... Im sure theyll understand... them being in the Perfect Private Sector and all... HA!!!!
    Well you can opt out of their service. I can hardly opt out of paying taxes now, can I?


  • #99
    Smiegal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 210 ✭✭Smiegal


    jimmycrackcorm1 wrote: »
    You could, of course, simply reduce your phone calls by 24% in line with your new income level which is the normal course of preferred action.

    No way!!!!! I demand the exact same service from Vodafone, but I'm going to pay them less.... I can't be an fairer then that now can I??? I mean they'll hardly withdraw their services.... Will they???

    Infact I might do the exact same with all my household bills... All these (overcharging)businesses being in the private sector will surly understand... Shucks... They'll probably even respect me for it.


  • #100
    Smiegal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 210 ✭✭Smiegal


    WalterMitty wrote: »
    no one said the private sector was always great but unlike the public sector if they dont do things efficiently and at lowest possible cost then they go wallop

    enter the drum roll... I think that as close to an admission that we're ever going to get... "if they dont do things efficiently and at lowest possible cost then they go wallop"... Eh... Does the fact that we're in recession not twig anything... The whole bloody country is gone wallop... Simply because the private sector here was and still is inefficient and overpriced. The dog on the street knows that we are not competitive... Hence so many businesses going "WALLOP"


  • #101
    Smiegal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 210 ✭✭Smiegal


    MaceFace wrote: »
    yes - lets slash jobs. Example - in the mid 90's there were 30 admin staff in the Dublin Fire Brigade. Today there is over 150.


    Well you can opt out of their service. I can hardly opt out of paying taxes now, can I?

    No no no.... Never mind admin staff for a moment... Let's get rid of all doctors, nurses, guards and firemen.... See what happens... If you can't afford a service you can't have the service so tough s**t.

    Opt out??? How dare you... Are you gone stone mad??? No... I want to pay less and get the same service... In fact... I might even ring them up and tell them to get there crap coverage sorted!!! Yeah... That's right... I demand reform but I'll be paying ye less then what I'm contracted for... Now stop yere winging Vodafone or else I'll cut ye even more!!!


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  • #102
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Smiegal wrote: »
    No way!!!!! I demand the exact same service from Vodafone, but I'm going to pay them less.... I can't be an fairer then that now can I??? I mean they'll hardly withdraw their services.... Will they???

    If you had researched before spouting off that comment, you would know that Comreg(public sector body) has failed to regulate the telecoms industry here properly for the last 10 odd years in that the main provider of landline communications still charges sky high line rental and Vodafone as a reseller of broadband services are forced to pass that onto the customer.

    Yes, all private sector companies have to charge this except Eircom who are semi-state who own the infrastructure who are themselves fighting de-regulation while screwing the public for every cent.

    The severe lack of regulation by a public sector body has resulted in the dearest broadband in Europe by a mile.

    Go to the Ireland Offline forum to inform yourself of the situation.


  • #103
    MaceFace
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭MaceFace


    Smiegal wrote: »
    enter the drum roll... I think that as close to an admission that we're ever going to get... "if they dont do things efficiently and at lowest possible cost then they go wallop"... Eh... Does the fact that we're in recession not twig anything... The whole bloody country is gone wallop... Simply because the private sector here was and still is inefficient and overpriced. The dog on the street knows that we are not competitive... Hence so many businesses going "WALLOP"

    What is your point here?

    This is just headline grabbing crap. We are gone wallop because we all over indulged for way to long and the people who should have reined us in (the government) didn't.

    Can you give me some examples of the inefficiencies that you are talking about? I know there are some, but I don't think you actually put any thought into your post.


  • #104
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    Vodafone seem to have done that with my broadband already, and I haven't yet reduced my subscription (>30 breaks in connection in January).

    [Sorry. I briefly forgot this was a public sector-sector bashing thread, where everything private sector is deemed good. I'll try to remember in future.]

    :) yes vodafone (bt whatever they were called) have gone to ****s

    but your missing the point

    you can chose a competitors broadband product, there are plenty now

    we cant choose between public services    , and when the govt asks for cuts in order to bring a budget into line, what do we get? strikes and all that


  • #105
    Tipp Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,025 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    I'm not sure why this debate is even going on, its pretty simple

    During the boom the government hired too many public sector workers and paid them too much money (with very little in the way of efficiences achieved)

    Now government income has fallen by between 25-30% (or more??) with no immediate sign of it about to pick up, surely the dogs in the street can see that to counter this the government needs to cut wages and numbers as the PS is one of its biggest outgoings.

    Its not complicated or vicious or anything else, its just a basic fact of economic life, deal with it for christ sake


  • #106
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    WalterMitty wrote: »
    As i said things werent /arent well run here. Capitalism like any economic system evolves. The housing bubble was fueled by poorly regulated(public sector regulators) allowing banks to COMPETE and offer CHEAP credit, too cheap and too much credit in fact. Most other developed economies didnt suffer as much as ireland so obviously their regulation worked. If we had all public sector banks in this country we'd still have a standard of living of 1940s and the only person who would get a loan would be the friends of politicians.

    We have been down this road so many times that I know all the twists and turns, and every pothole. Yes, there was a failure in regulation. But to try to fix all the blame on that is akin to making police responsible for all crime.

    Why bring in the fantasm of public sector banks corrupted by politicians? We never had that, nor was it ever on any agenda. But in recent years we have had an increasing right-wing clamour in our society and strong advocacy of free markets. That is one of the reasons why the regulatory regime for banks was lightened. There is a belief out there that markets are self-correcting. That is true if you accept that recession is a market correction: it is, but the main point of governments intervening in economies is to try to soften such things.

    When you read discussions here, you might be persuaded that everybody with an IQ greater than 85 could read the situation and saw the crash coming. I suspect much of that prescience is based on hindsight. If everybody saw it coming, then it wouldn't have been coming.

    Barry is a victim of the bubble. So are scores of thousands of other people. Among them are people who are generally intelligent, well-informed, and cautious. They were duped by a conventional wisdom that emerged more or less spontaneously over a period of years.

    I have sympathy for the victims of the bubble -- a thing that some participants here seem not to manage, and in some cases they seem to take pride in showing no sympathy.

    Barry's mistake was in failing to appreciate that the pay cuts to which he has been subjected were inevitable, that the government had no great scope for avoiding imposing them. His second mistake was to believe that many outside the public sector would sympathise with him about that.


  • #107
    Smiegal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 210 ✭✭Smiegal


    gurramok wrote: »
    If you had researched before spouting off that comment, you would know that Comreg(public sector body) has failed to regulate the telecoms industry here properly for the last 10 odd years in that the main provider of landline communications still charges sky high line rental and Vodafone as a reseller of broadband services are forced to pass that onto the customer.

    Yes, all private sector companies have to charge this except Eircom who are semi-state who own the infrastructure who are themselves fighting de-regulation while screwing the public for every cent.

    The severe lack of regulation by a public sector body has resulted in the dearest broadband in Europe by a mile.

    Go to the Ireland Offline forum to inform yourself of the situation.


    Firstly I wasn't talking about bb, I was talking about mobile costs...

    Unfortunately for your last post my previous employment was in telecommunications and therefore I don't need to research it!!!!! So before you go jumping in the deepend lad perhaps you should pull the reigns in a bit!!!

    Yes Commreg do regulate this industry. One of their main tasks is to prevent customer costs running to high.... That does not mean others cannot drop there prices and improve there services!!!

    By concentrating on Vodafone you are both missing my point (perhaps on purpose) and changing the topic of the thread.

    We all know that this country is a rip off. Bin collections, motor industry, building, clothes, food, etc... the list goes on and on!!! The private sector here is after going wallop because they were and still are inefficient and over priced!!!! (exceptions to this of course)

    You can blame what ever reasons you want to come up with but at the end of the day it comes out of my pocket irregardless of breakdown of costs!!!

    It seems to me that you'll freely admit that private sector here is a rip off.... but only because of the public sector... Get a grip, and the next time theres a dictionary near by try looking up accountability...



  • #108
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    :) yes vodafone (bt whatever they were called) have gone to ****s

    but your missing the point

    you can chose a competitors broadband product, there are plenty now

    we cant choose between public services    , and when the govt asks for cuts in order to bring a budget into line, what do we get? strikes and all that

    I am not missing any point. Where I live, I have limited choices, and I have migrated once already. There is not a reliable service available to me.

    The market does not deliver everywhere.


  • #109
    Tipp Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,025 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    Barry is a victim of the bubble. So are scores of thousands of other people. Among them are people who are generally intelligent, well-informed, and cautious. They were duped by a conventional wisdom that emerged more or less spontaneously over a period of years.

    I have sympathy for the victims of the bubble -- a thing that some participants here seem not to manage, and in some cases they seem to take pride in showing no sympathy.

    Barry's mistake was in failing to appreciate that the pay cuts to which he has been subjected were inevitable, that the government had no great scope for avoiding imposing them. His second mistake was to believe that many outside the public sector would sympathise with him about that.

    Barry in indeed a victim of the bubble just like many others. Whilst appreciating that his take home salary has been cut, by a fair bit, what would have happend to Barry if interest rates had risen (which they have to)?? What would have happend to Barry if the interest rates went from 1% to 5% which would still be considered relatively low?? How much would his 300k mortgage repayments have gone up by?? More than his wage decrease? I'd say so.

    Barry like so many others is a victim (be they public or private sector) but a victim who signed up for a huge loan without fully appreciating the consequences of things that were very likely to happen. Whatever about wage cuts, interest rates are at record and unprecedented lows. Anybody getting into the kind of debt that he did would surely stop and think about what would happen if they increased

    So I feel no sympathy for Barry and his like, and I have no idea why I should be expected to


  • #110
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    I am not missing any point. Where I live, I have limited choices, and I have migrated once already. There is not a reliable service available to me.

    The market does not deliver everywhere.

    but where it does deliver there is choice (as im typing this, im in middle of remotely setting up servers in Frankfurt and have a choice between a dozen backbone operators with aggressive pricing at 1eur/mbit)

    edit: thanks to competition and technology advances thats down from 10eur/mbit only 3 years ago


    in your case try wireless providers like Clearwire maybe? or 3G operators?


    you are still missing a point:

    we can not choose between various public service at ALL, and when we ask for better value for money all we get is strikes


    funny that you are talking about telecommunications, since thanks to that being run by the state for so long it effectively killed off any competition in this country and has held back development of broadband :(

    edit: the market works fine in places where it wasn't suffocated by bureaucracies and inefficiencies of state or semi-state bodies, and yes i worked in a semi-state and seen first hand how "efficiently" they operate :(

    /


  • #111
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    Tipp Man wrote: »
    Now government income has fallen by between 25-30% (or more??) with no immediate sign of it about to pick up, surely the dogs in the street can see that to counter this the government needs to cut wages and numbers as the PS is one of its biggest outgoings.

    Its not complicated or vicious or anything else, its just a basic fact of economic life, deal with it for christ sake

    no its not complicated but as Barry has shown "some" people seem to be missing basic grasp of mathematics and budgeting/financial planning

    anyways a picture illustrates the issue well
    jug7qa.png
    source


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  • #112
    Smiegal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 210 ✭✭Smiegal


    Tipp Man wrote: »
    I'm not sure why this debate is even going on, its pretty simple

    During the boom the government hired too many public sector workers and paid them too much money (with very little in the way of efficiences achieved)

    Now government income has fallen by between 25-30% (or more??) with no immediate sign of it about to pick up, surely the dogs in the street can see that to counter this the government needs to cut wages and numbers as the PS is one of its biggest outgoings.

    Its not complicated or vicious or anything else, its just a basic fact of economic life, deal with it for christ sake

    As a public Sector worker I genuinely agree with the core message of this post. All I'd say about it cutting costs is that you cant keep cutting peoples wages over an over again... whatever about economics, it simply is not fair. At some stage you HAVE to start thinking about job cuts. I know the public sector is top heavy, I see it every day for Christs sake.

    There was no need to go that far with the cuts, instead the Government should have begun to cut jobs... but of course that wouldn't suit them because then they would have an even bigger dole que...

    Whats also interesting to note that if a Mr. A is paid say €50,000 in the private sector and ind Mr. B is paid €50,000 then Mr. A's employer must actually pay out €50,000 whereas the Mr B's employer (The Government) also pays out €50,000 but gets a nice bulk of it back in the tax he naturally pays, so effectivley Mr. B's slary is not actually costing the tax payer €50,000 its only costing him what ever Mr. B gets into hi pocket... In esscence its easy for The Government to say e pay pur employees well whilst in fact it does not cost tyhem the smae as it would a private sector employer.


  • #113
    Riskymove
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,903 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    anyways a picture illustrates the issue well

    you are fond of these graphs but again i am somewhat confused by them

    what exactly is it supposed to be showing? for example it suggests to me estimated expenmditure of over €75bn in 2009 and over €70bn this year

    if so those figures are totally incorrect...can you clarify


  • #114
    Tipp Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,025 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    no its not complicated but as Barry has shown "some" people seem to be missing basic grasp of mathematics and budgeting/financial planning

    anyways a picture illustrates the issue well
    jug7qa.png
    source

    Wow 2 very frightening things on that graph

    first is just how far removed expenditure has become from income and
    secondly just how long it is going to take for them to even come close to meeting again

    We are going to have a whopping national debt by the time 2015 comes around


  • #115
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    but where it does deliver there is choice (as im typing this, im in middle of remotely setting up servers in Frankfurt and have a choice between a dozen backbone operators with aggressive pricing at 1eur/mbit)



    in your case try wireless providers like Clearwire maybe? or 3G operators?


    you are still missing a point:

    we can not choose between various public service at ALL, and when we ask for better value for money all we get is strikes


    funny that you are talking about telecommunications, since thanks to that being run by the state for so long it effectively killed off any competition in this country and has held back development of broadband :(

    /

    First, I do not see why you are bringing failures of public service provision into this discussion: I do not hold a candle for it.

    You are choosing to see the broadband market in Ireland in a general way. That is irrelevant to me. I know what is available where I am, and have been around the houses on it -- even tried satellite. I do not have meaningful choice. I have a pretty good idea of what the problem is, and it's a technical one; getting something done to solve it is the difficulty. Free markets do not solve all problems.

    That's why I find the free market mantra tiresome.


  • #116
    Nidot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 372 ✭✭Nidot


    Smiegal wrote: »
    As a public Sector worker I genuinely agree with the core message of this post. All I'd say about it cutting costs is that you cant keep cutting peoples wages over an over again... whatever about economics, it simply is not fair. At some stage you HAVE to start thinking about job cuts. I know the public sector is top heavy, I see it every day for Christs sake.

    There was no need to go that far with the cuts, instead the Government should have begun to cut jobs... but of course that wouldn't suit them because then they would have an even bigger dole que...

    Whats also interesting to note that if a Mr. A is paid say €50,000 in the private sector and ind Mr. B is paid €50,000 then Mr. A's employer must actually pay out €50,000 whereas the Mr B's employer (The Government) also pays out €50,000 but gets a nice bulk of it back in the tax he naturally pays, so effectivley Mr. B's slary is not actually costing the tax payer €50,000 its only costing him what ever Mr. B gets into hi pocket... In esscence its easy for The Government to say e pay pur employees well whilst in fact it does not cost tyhem the smae as it would a private sector employer.


    Yes but also the government earn the tax take from Mr. A's salary.

    I don't think we should start with job cuts, what alot of people are suggesting is reform of the way public services are operated. This can be done by changing work practices and and working terms. Yes these reforms may not be agreed to (as we can see from the opposition of the unions). But potentially as the Taoiseach and several ministers have suggested, if these reforms were to deliver the necessary savings then there would potentially be no need for cuts in base pay levels.


  • #117
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    Riskymove wrote: »
    you are fond of these graphs but again i am somewhat confused by them

    what exactly is it supposed to be showing? for example it suggests to me estimated expenmditure of over €75bn in 2009 and over €70bn this year

    if so those figures are totally incorrect...can you clarify

    do i really need to spell it out? :rolleyes:


    expenditure 75bln - income of 50bln = 25bln deficit (money we borrowed in 2009)

    it shows how the state expenditure has grown out of control while tax revenue has collapsed, follow the link to the thread for detailed breakdown posted by me and other members

    the graph also shows what the govt is hoping the income and expenditure would be due to the last 2 budgets


  • #118
    Tipp Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,025 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    First, I do not see why you are bringing failures of public service provision into this discussion: I do not hold a candle for it.

    You are choosing to see the broadband market in Ireland in a general way. That is irrelevant to me. I know what is available where I am, and have been around the houses on it -- even tried satellite. I do not have meaningful choice. I have a pretty good idea of what the problem is, and it's a technical one; getting something done to solve it is the difficulty. Free markets do not solve all problems.

    That's why I find the free market mantra tiresome.

    I'm not sure i see your point though, you live in an area that has a very poor broadband supply, whilst a pain for you i'm sure, I don't see what your problem with Vodafone (or whoever) is??


    For certain free markets do not solve everything which is why you need governmental regulation to a degree. What has been pointed out earlier in the thread is just how poor some of the regulation in this country really is. Why is that??


  • #119
    Riskymove
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,903 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    expenditure 75bln - income of 50bln = 25bln deficit (money we borrowed in 2009)

    you also love your winking smiley

    yes I can carry out subtraction and even addition, but you have ignored my question;););)

    ...we did not see expenditure of 75bn in 2009 nor income of 50bn...where do those figures come from?


  • #120
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    That's why I find the free market mantra tiresome.

    your missing the point yet again

    if theres money/profit to be made, then the free market will deliver

    obviously enough its not economical or profitable to deliver fiber/cables to every house in the country since we have a rather low population density, but where it can be done it is getting done (my current UPC connection)

    you can thank the ex state telecom monopoly for setting us back a few decades

    the guys in the Ireland Offline or the Broadband subforums have plenty of threads on the subject


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  • #121
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    Riskymove wrote: »
    you also love your winking smiley

    yes I can carry out subtraction and even addition, but you have ignored my question;););)

    ...we did not see expenditure of 75bn in 2009 nor income of 50bn...where do those figures come from?

    click on the source link under the graph

    then click on the reference provided in the thread

    the graph is from Ronan Lyon's post after the last budget, who had a very detailed analysis on the subject


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