Spare a thought for Barry

Bonzo1970 · 03-02-2010 07:33PM

WalterMitty wrote: »

EU teachers tend to do more weeks but less hours per week. I have yet to see convincing stats . Part of problem with public sector is finding good stats on what they get across EU and exact hours etc.

Ring up the ASTI and ask them or try keying in Myths about teachers ASTIR and see what you get. Its like putting fingers in a dam. You deal with misinformation on one site and up pops another thread.I even wrote a letter in the Irish Times refuting this low hours guff. There is only so much I can do in a day!:rolleyes:

Idbatterim · 03-02-2010 08:04PM

Excellent point OP, I have raised this point on boards before! Regardless of whatever anyone here says, if you are a private sector workers are you prepared to pay more or raised taxes? or if you are on welfare or OAP are you prepared to take cut to keep them in the lifestyle they have become accustomed to? No didnt think so! Look the PS is an ansolute P*ss take, but you have to blame the Goverment more than Greedy workers and unions! I hope the exchequer figures get worse and worse and worse, the worse they get the more reform and cuts will become a guarantee! Negotiation time is over, its reforms to achieve savings or pay cuts to achieve savings! The Goverment should not even entertain going back to the table with the unions until all current action has ceased and they are prepared to accept reform! I am sick of hearing and discussing what is wrong, we all know the problems! why dont those morons we elect get their bloody finger out and get us out of this mess!

changes · 03-02-2010 08:22PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

Excellent point OP, I have raised this point on boards before! Regardless of whatever anyone here says, if you are a private sector workers are you prepared to pay more or raised taxes? or if you are on welfare or OAP are you prepared to take cut to keep them in the lifestyle they have become accustomed to? No didnt think so!

Who is willing to take cuts, not very many as you pointed out in your post in a roundabout way.

Idbatterim · 03-02-2010 08:22PM

One other point! anyone in the PS complaining how they are struggling to get by and have a mortgage, NEWSFLASH! Interest rates are at the lowest level ever and in all likelyhood we will never see such low rates again! combine the low interest rates with the fall in prices across the economy and I find it hard to have sympathy!

Count Dooku · 03-02-2010 09:54PM

rightwingdub wrote: »

There needs to be further pay cuts in the next budget so the following pay cuts need to be made.

<25,000 5%
25,001-45000 7.5%
45,001-70,000 10%
70,001-100,000 12.5%
100,001-150,000 15%
150,001 onwards 17.5%

Do you want to see cuts implemented or just annoy public servants?
<25,000 0%
25,001-45000 2.5%
45,001-70,000 20%
70,001-100,000 25%
100,001 onwards 45%

And then we all will have good laugh on PS union leaders explaining why higher paid public servants deserve their wages.
If lower paid PS will want to support their higher paid colleagues, they can do it on voluntary basis.

johnnyskeleton · 03-02-2010 09:55PM

gurramok wrote: »

Barry made a poor decision to pay €375,000 for a luxury apartment. His salary is not the issue, its his poor financial decisions on what he has done with his net pay, that is not his employers problem.

Its funny how the public sector workers with mortgages seem to be the loudest objectors to the budget.

+1. I suspect that Barry would rather have a people's nama than a reversal of the paycuts & pension levy.

ardmacha · 03-02-2010 10:16PM

Barry's difficulties don't so much arise from this private or public sector status as his date of birth. He happened to be at an age when you think of buying a house at the precise point where houses were most expensive. Of course you can come on here (and many have) sneering and say that he should have conducted his own macroeconomic analysis and ignored that of the Dept of Finance and the major private sector Banks etc. Quite an ask.

MysticalRain · 03-02-2010 11:06PM

ardmacha wrote: »

Barry's difficulties don't so much arise from this private or public sector status as his date of birth. He happened to be at an age when you think of buying a house at the precise point where houses were most expensive. Of course you can come on here (and many have) sneering and say that he should have conducted his own macroeconomic analysis and ignored that of the Dept of Finance and the major private sector Banks etc. Quite an ask.

It's not a big ask to require someone to have good enough grasp of household budgeting to figure out how a pay cut of 5-10% might affect his mortgage repayments. I hope his job isn't related to anything to do with planning or juggling numbers, because if it is, this country is truly fcuked with civil servants like him.

It didn't take a genius to realize that the property market in 2006 was overheated when you had banks advertising 100% mortgages and trying to hoodwink parents into funding their children's mortgages.

ardmacha · 04-02-2010 12:00AM

It didn't take a genius to realize that the property market in 2006 was overheated when you had banks advertising 100% mortgages and trying to hoodwink parents into funding their children's mortgages.

True. However without studying the national accounts you cannot easily work out the implications for the national finances. When did the government last cut nominal wages by 10%+?

Welease · 04-02-2010 12:06AM

ardmacha wrote: »

True. However without studying the national accounts you cannot easily work out the implications for the national finances. When did the government last cut nominal wages by 10%+?

But... when was it ever a good idea to borrow 6-7 times your salary?
It was a dumb choice and Barry is paying the price...

There was plenty of other housing available for far lower cost than that..

MysticalRain · 04-02-2010 12:10AM

ardmacha wrote: »

True. However without studying the national accounts you cannot easily work out the implications for the national finances. When did the government last cut nominal wages by 10%+?

It was well noted at the time that the government was heavily dependent on taxes from the construction and housing sector. The construction bubble had burst at some point, and people should have been prepared for it. Irish wages in both the public and private sector were a historical aberration and some kind of correction was bound to happen sooner or later. If the private sector went down the ****ter, then the government simply wouldn't have the money to maintain public sector wages at peak Celtic Tiger levels. I can understand how somebody born after 1980 might have no concept of this, but anybody who came of age in the pre-boom times of the 1970s and 80s really should have known better.

ardmacha · 04-02-2010 01:12AM

I can understand how somebody born after 1980 might have no concept of this, but anybody who came of age in the pre-boom times of the 1970s and 80s really should have known better.

I cannot see how having been around in the 70s or 80s is any particular help. Someone born in 1980 would have essentially worked in the Euro era and should look at things from the perspective of a German run currency union where deflation is a possibility. In the 1970s and 80s there was rapid inflation, pay freezes diminished living standards somewhat, but your mortgage stayed the same and people such as Barry did not run into massive problems then.

darkman2 · 04-02-2010 02:47AM

This is almost as good as that teacher on RTE news a few months back harranging Brian Lenihan for the Pension Levy because she had a 600k mortgage to pay!

What planet were these people living on? It's their own fault through their own financial mismanagement and personally I have no symphathy at all for them and want to see the pay cut more substantially then it has been so far.

Im not willing to pay more tax to bail out Public Servants!

WalterMitty · 04-02-2010 03:36AM

darkman2 wrote: »

This is almost as good as that teacher on RTE news a few months back harranging Brian Lenihan for the Pension Levy because she had a 600k mortgage to pay!

What planet were these people living on? It's their own fault through their own financial mismanagement and personally I have no symphathy at all for them and want to see the pay cut more substantially then it has been so far.

Im not willing to pay more tax to bail out Public Servants!

They should direct their anger at king rat who jumped ship just before it sunk. He told them they were worth it and entitled to everything and everything would be grand and if you didnt beleive him he said you should go kill yourself. The facts are the national income (gnp) is down dramatically and will continue falling for a good while yet IMO, this means we have less income coming into the nation as a whole (around 20% less as of 2010) and we have massive private and public sector debt. We were never really rich like King Rat would have you beleive, it was all paper wealth based on inflated land/property prices. Now we are back to becoming an average or below average EU economy and if the deficit isnt closed we could become a basket case economy. When eocnomic activity declines 20% like it has how can the public sector expect the total pay bill in the sector to not decline by at least that amount, Given the crash also increased the costs to the state in social welfare and lost income and consumption taxes.
It aint fair that PS have to take such cuts but neither is it fair private have to lose so many jobs or so many have to emmigrate or lose their homes. Life isnt fair as any child living in the third world will tell you but even after the cuts so far the public sector in this country are still among best paid in Europe(remember the German ambassador who slagged us off before crash?) and have job security. I think the situation the Irish public sector face is actually quite attractive in the grand scheme of things. The pot of national income has dropped a lot but many of them want to keep a now higher proportion of overall national income which will mean more taxes on everyone to keep them at that level of income or cuts in numbers in the sector to keep the majority on the same per capita incomes but service levels to public muct suffer in such scenario.

The unions are being completely disingenious in saying there is fairer or less painfull ways of doing this. Despite taxes being significantly increased over past two years income taxes has kept collapsing. Our low corporate tax rate might seem tooo low to the socialists and they might say it should be raised but in doing that we would be cutting off our noses to spite our faces.
During the 1990s after German reunification they found themselves in recession but the highly unionsed sectors agreed to take pay cuts in order to make Germany more competiive . Now the position we are in is much worse that Germany then yet our unions wouldnt even countenance pay cuts untill the were forced on them. They dont seem to offer any constructive options/plans that are properly costed and set the path to recovery,they just waffle on about fairness ,equity etc while ignoring the inequity of one sector of Irish economy being secure,well pensioned and paid more(CSO verified).

MaceFace · 04-02-2010 09:18AM

Bonzo1970 wrote: »

After school stuff is something I would not sign up for as part of contract. I do some when it suits me.Preparing for classes is my number one priority. Many teachers like myself have done extra curricular for free for years but Im hired to teach and despite misinformation

Apologies for only taking part of your post, I hope you do not think I am taking it out of context.

I don't understand the "done extra curricular for free for years". Do you mean that you are doing work that is not explicitly stated in your contract?

What is this extra cirricular?
Parent- class preparation, homework correction, Teacher meetings, communion and confirmation practice on evenings and weekends, organising detention?
Did you not know this was part of the job when you signed up?

Maybe I am missing something, but what extra work are you doing that you did not know was part of being a teacher?

Idbatterim · 04-02-2010 12:39PM

I dont know how many on here came to the conclusion that €375k bough Barry a luxury apartment at the height of the boom! It was probably on "Dublins Doorstep" .ie Mullingar, you probably couldnt swing a cat in it & now no doubt a ghost development!

woodseb · 04-02-2010 01:35PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

I dont know how many on here came to the conclusion that €375k bough Barry a luxury apartment at the height of the boom! It was probably on "Dublins Doorstep" .ie Mullingar, you probably couldnt swing a cat in it & now no doubt a ghost development!

his address was on the letter....

Idbatterim · 04-02-2010 01:40PM

Excuse my sarcasm but you get the point I was trying to make, you really think that 375k during the boom got you a luxury apartment in Dublin? Anyway, no one put a gun to their head, you live and die by your decisions...

waffleman · 04-02-2010 03:35PM

gurramok wrote: »

His address is Royal Canal Park, D15.

Assuming this is where the apt is in question, paying 375k for a apt here rather than an upmarket area with the amount of money involved is indeed very stupid.

I'm not from Dublin but I would consider 375k for an apartment anywhere in Ireland over priced. To me this is just an indication of how crazy prices got. Walking into a bank and agreeing a loan for that amount would scare the sh!t out of me. If Barry was buying a 7/8 bed 2 storey with a good bit of land in a very nice neighbourhood or on the shorefront and he planned to live there for the rest of his days I would say he has got some balls to take that risk for such a nice place and maybe just maybe it was worth it. But for an apartment it seems like pure lunacy.

woodseb · 04-02-2010 05:42PM

waffleman wrote: »

I'm not from Dublin but I would consider 375k for an apartment anywhere in Ireland over priced. To me this is just an indication of how crazy prices got. Walking into a bank and agreeing a loan for that amount would scare the sh!t out of me. If Barry was buying a 7/8 bed 2 storey with a good bit of land in a very nice neighbourhood or on the shorefront and he planned to live there for the rest of his days I would say he has got some balls to take that risk for such a nice place and maybe just maybe it was worth it. But for an apartment it seems like pure lunacy.

375k was way too much for a 2 bed alright but i think you'd be waiting a very very long time to find the sort of value in Dublin that you are looking for there....

ei.sdraob · 04-02-2010 06:21PM

woodseb wrote: »

375k was way too much for a 2 bed alright but i think you'd be waiting a very very long time to find the sort of value in Dublin that you are looking for there....

heres what on offer in the same flats now

http://www.daft.ie/1496098
http://www.daft.ie/2585859

Smiegal · 04-02-2010 10:06PM

MaceFace wrote: »

What rackets were these?

Perhaps you should read the book bankers.... if you really need to ask that question

Smiegal · 04-02-2010 10:12PM

murphaph wrote: »

...not forgetting also that the costs of other things in Barry's life have also fallen over the past 2 years as we have been experiencing serious deflation. Barry's food, clothing, energy, furniture etc. bills have come down along with his mortgage, yet he maintains he's in trouble with his mortgage.

Ha!!!! Me arse!!! Open your eyes!!!! whilst very few things have come down... Fuel has gone up, mortgages are set to go back up, insurances are ALL gone up... food is still a rip off.... This country is in this state because we are not competitive... we are not competitive because the private sector here is a rip off in comparison!!!!

Haha, ye're gas lads!!!

Smiegal · 04-02-2010 10:17PM

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Fair play lad, will you come around to mine afterwards???

It's nice to see there are some unemployed people unemployed because they cant get a job as opposed to cant get a job they want....

Smiegal · 04-02-2010 10:34PM

rightwingdub wrote: »

There needs to be further pay cuts in the next budget so the following pay cuts need to be made.

<25,000 5%
25,001-45000 7.5%
45,001-70,000 10%
70,001-100,000 12.5%
100,001-150,000 15%
150,001 onwards 17.5%

Last Decembers pay cuts are not even the tip of the ice berg when it comes to the level of pay cuts that are required if Ireland is not to go bankrupt and I haven't even touched on any future social welfare cutbacks that are necessary.

If your man Barry doesn't like having to take a pay cut than he should quit and find alternative employment in the capitalist private sector instead of continuing to work in the communist public sector. Barry must have been on a decent salary as well and its his own fault for buying a house at over 5 times his salary.

I Love it!!! Your talkin about capitalists now??? Tell ya what... I actually agree with you!!!!!!! But instead of further cutting wages because we cant afford to pay, we should in fact do what our wonderfull Irish Private sector has done and slash public sector jobs right across the board... Yeah it'll mean mean public service will come to a complete grinding halt (afterall plenty of core areas were understaffed even before the recruitment freeze), but sure how bad.... I mean if you cant pay for a service... well, you simply cant have it....

Think I'm going to ring up Vodafone tomorrow and tell thm Im not earning as much as I used to be so I'll be paying them 24% less going forward... Im sure theyll understand... them being in the Perfect Private Sector and all... HA!!!!

Smiegal · 04-02-2010 10:41PM

The Express wrote: »

Private sector worker here:

Cut in base salary: 10%
Commission: cancelled for the forseeable future
Pension and job security: nope
Having a public sector job in the middle of a recession: priceless*

*with apologies to the mastercard ad!

Damn straight!!!!

#15 · 04-02-2010 11:49PM

WalterMitty wrote: »

EU teachers tend to do more weeks but less hours per week. I have yet to see convincing stats .

Walter, this is from the 2009 OECD Education report.

#15 · 04-02-2010 11:53PM

WalterMitty wrote: »

The unions are being completely disingenious in saying there is fairer or less painfull ways of doing this. Despite taxes being significantly increased over past two years income taxes has kept collapsing. Our low corporate tax rate might seem tooo low to the socialists and they might say it should be raised but in doing that we would be cutting off our noses to spite our faces.
During the 1990s after German reunification they found themselves in recession but the highly unionsed sectors agreed to take pay cuts in order to make Germany more competiive . Now the position we are in is much worse that Germany then yet our unions wouldnt even countenance pay cuts untill the were forced on them. They dont seem to offer any constructive options/plans that are properly costed and set the path to recovery,they just waffle on about fairness ,equity etc while ignoring the inequity of one sector of Irish economy being secure,well pensioned and paid more(CSO verified).

+1.
The unions are a pretty destructive force IMO.

It will be death by waffle.

jimmycrackcorm · 05-02-2010 01:07AM

Smiegal wrote: »

Think I'm going to ring up Vodafone tomorrow and tell thm Im not earning as much as I used to be so I'll be paying them 24% less going forward... Im sure theyll understand... them being in the Perfect Private Sector and all... HA!!!!

You could, of course, simply reduce your phone calls by 24% in line with your new income level which is the normal course of preferred action.

P. Breathnach · 05-02-2010 01:16AM

jimmycrackcorm1 wrote: »

You could, of course, simply reduce your phone calls by 24% in line with your new income level which is the normal course of preferred action.

Vodafone seem to have done that with my broadband already, and I haven't yet reduced my subscription (>30 breaks in connection in January).

[Sorry. I briefly forgot this was a public sector-sector bashing thread, where everything private sector is deemed good. I'll try to remember in future.]

Spare a thought for Barry

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