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Timing Belt vs Timing Chain.

  • 03-01-2010 09:27PM
    #1
    Matt406
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 190 ✭✭


    Sorry if this is a stupid question but what’s the difference between a timing belt and timing chain? Does a timing chain need to be replaced the same as a timing belt? Thanks.


«13

Comments

  • #2
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,546 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    chains don't snap or perish.
    If a chain is on the way out it'll rattle for ages beforehand, belts just snap without warning.
    Chains often don't have a set interval for changing.


  • #3
    jimmyw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,382 ✭✭✭jimmyw


    A timing belt/chain is the link between the crankshaft and camshaft. The belt must be changed at certain intervals but a chain does not.


  • #4
    cormie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,854 ✭✭✭✭cormie


    Ignore this :P


  • #5
    peasant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    Not quite correct, even a chain lenghtens and will have to be replaced eventually ...but it usually advertises that fact quite well through an audible rattle.


  • #6
    bbbbb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 731 ✭✭✭bbbbb


    Is it correct to say the only advantage of a belt is cost? (for the manufacturer)


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  • #7
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,546 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    Yep, that'd be fair to say. that and the fact that many engines are developents of older engines which used belts.


  • #8
    FREE D DAN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4 ✭FREE D DAN


    chain has to be running in oil more seals more complicated........... belt is less hassle it runs outside engine


  • #9
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66,633 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    bbbbb wrote: »
    Is it correct to say the only advantage of a belt is cost? (for the manufacturer)

    And the recurring big bills for the belt changes (for the manufacturer and his agents) :D

    And the even bigger bills for engine changes after belts snap, prematurely or not (for the manufacturer and his agents) :D:D:D

    Another benefit of the belt is that it is quieter, but that's only noticeable in cheaper cars (i.e. I can't hear the chain on my BMW 5-series or 7-series from within the car)

    My ads on adverts.ie:

    https://www.adverts.ie/member/5856/ads



  • #10
    alias no.9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,400 ✭✭✭alias no.9


    bbbbb wrote: »
    Is it correct to say the only advantage of a belt is cost? (for the manufacturer)

    Not quite the full story
    - belts do not stretch
    - they are generally quieter
    - on SOHC engines where they originated, they were cheap and easy to change and usually fail safe on 8v engines
    The workload on a timing belt on a modern DOHC engine with variable valve timing is much greater than it was on early SOHC engines. Changing the belts and setting the timing is more comlex, driving up labour costs. Idler pulleys and tensioners have become quite expensive driving up parts costs.


  • #11
    JHMEG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    Higher revving engines tended to have belts because of their lower mass.


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  • #12
    dmca77
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 151 ✭✭dmca77


    If a chain driven engine does not have a full service history. DO NOT TOUCH. Chain is lubricated by the oil and in turn if not changed regulary the oil eats away at the chain!


  • #13
    CJhaughey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,678 ✭✭✭✭CJhaughey


    dmca77 wrote: »
    If a chain driven engine does not have a full service history. DO NOT TOUCH. Chain is lubricated by the oil and in turn if not changed regulary the oil eats away at the chain!

    How can oil eat away at a chain? Unless it was more acid than oil and in that case your engine would have dissolved at the head before then.
    :rolleyes:
    Chains are made of steel, cyl head are made of alloy, which will be eaten away first?
    If the oil had enough swarf to destroy a chain what would the pistons look like?


  • #14
    dmca77
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 151 ✭✭dmca77


    CJhaughey wrote: »
    How can oil eat away at a chain? Unless it was more acid than oil and in that case your engine would have dissolved at the head before then.
    :rolleyes:
    Chains are made of steel, cyl head are made of alloy, which will be eaten away first?
    If the oil had enough swarf to destroy a chain what would the pistons look like?


    You go to any manufacturer with a chain problem first thing you are asked does the vehicle have a service history. the longer you go without an oil change the more strain it puts on your timing chain thats because the oil gets thicker .......... hence why it stretches


  • #15
    dmca77
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 151 ✭✭dmca77


    CJhaughey wrote: »
    How can oil eat away at a chain? Unless it was more acid than oil and in that case your engine would have dissolved at the head before then.
    :rolleyes:
    Chains are made of steel, cyl head are made of alloy, which will be eaten away first?
    If the oil had enough swarf to destroy a chain what would the pistons look like?


    Ill never leave my car in you hands, are all cyl heads made off alloy?


  • #16
    kyote00
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭kyote00


    Is it not as straight forward as that.

    Most Manufacturers are only indirectly related to the forecourts. The forecourt garages (sales) are involved mainly in sales. The sales and service are often independant legal and accounting entities in Ireland.

    So.....

    Belts which need to be changed very often only provided minumum revenue to the manufacturer and lots of revenue (via labour) to the service units of the garages.....


    bbbbb wrote: »
    Is it correct to say the only advantage of a belt is cost? (for the manufacturer)


  • #17
    Fishtits
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,382 ✭✭✭Fishtits


    Timing belts were dreamed up by some sod with too much time on their hands...:D

    Chains, properly designed & specced, coupled with regular oil changes etc will last the life of an engine. (there are examples out there where they got it wrong however... pssst Almera)

    ie - give me an example where a manufacturer states a change mileage for a chain?

    Belts are nasty IMHO (herselfs' TDI is due a change so I may be biased ;))


  • #18
    CJhaughey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,678 ✭✭✭✭CJhaughey


    dmca77 wrote: »
    You go to any manufacturer with a chain problem first thing you are asked does the vehicle have a service history. the longer you go without an oil change the more strain it puts on your timing chain thats because the oil gets thicker .......... hence why it stretches
    Honestly thicker oil stretches chains? :rolleyes:
    Of course any manufacturer will ask if you have a service history, if you don't it makes life a lot simpler for them.
    I will let you in on a secret, chains don't stretch, they wear.


  • #19
    peasant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    Fishtits wrote: »
    Timing belts were dreamed up by some sod with too much time on their hands...:D

    Rumour has it that they were dreamed up (for cars) by Hans Glas after he'd fixed his mother's kitchen mixer which was driven by just such a belt.

    Anyhow, the Glas 1004
    180px-Glas_S1004.jpg
    was the first ever car to have a timing belt.

    The engine on that car was designed by ex BMW designer Leonhard Ischinger ...so you can either blame Hans Glas or Herr Ischinger ... but the Germans, at any rate :D


  • #20
    dmca77
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 151 ✭✭dmca77


    CJhaughey wrote: »
    Honestly thicker oil stretches chains? :rolleyes:
    Of course any manufacturer will ask if you have a service history, if you don't it makes life a lot simpler for them.
    I will let you in on a secret, chains don't stretch, they wear.

    So they wear away then and not stretch? Worked on many have you?
    Where is my answer for alloy heads? Still waiting!!
    If you don't have a clue don't get involved.

    D


  • #21
    dmca77
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 151 ✭✭dmca77


    CJhaughey wrote: »
    Honestly thicker oil stretches chains? :rolleyes:
    Of course any manufacturer will ask if you have a service history, if you don't it makes life a lot simpler for them.
    I will let you in on a secret, chains don't stretch, they wear.

    God help the Irish Public if you work on there cars!!!!!


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  • #22
    dmca77
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 151 ✭✭dmca77


    CJhaughey wrote: »
    Honestly thicker oil stretches chains? :rolleyes:
    Of course any manufacturer will ask if you have a service history, if you don't it makes life a lot simpler for them.
    I will let you in on a secret, chains don't stretch, they wear.

    How many chains have you replaced??


  • #23
    alias no.9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,400 ✭✭✭alias no.9


    Timing chains can and do stretch.
    Failure to observe the oil change schedule will result in wear rather than any chemical attack.
    Steel is in fact an alloy, but that's just being pedantic ;).


  • #24
    CJhaughey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,678 ✭✭✭✭CJhaughey


    dmca77 wrote: »
    So they wear away then and not stretch? Worked on many have you?
    Where is my answer for alloy heads? Still waiting!!
    If you don't have a clue don't get involved.

    D

    Chains don't stretch and they do not get attacked by oil.
    FFS they are not rubber bands.
    Not all cyl heads are alloy but the majority are.
    And yes FYI I have replaced plenty of chains in my time in both bike and car lumps.


  • #25
    Theshedog
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6 ✭Theshedog


    alias no.9 wrote: »
    Timing chains can and do stretch.
    Failure to observe the oil change schedule will result in wear rather than any chemical attack.
    Steel is in fact an alloy, but that's just being pedantic ;).


    +1, I've changed a number of them before for this reason.


  • #26
    CJhaughey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,678 ✭✭✭✭CJhaughey


    alias no.9 wrote: »
    Timing chains can and do stretch.
    Failure to observe the oil change schedule will result in wear rather than any chemical attack.
    Steel is in fact an alloy, but that's just being pedantic ;).

    Chains don't stretch they wear out of tolerance, same with motorcycle drive chains they wear and get loose on the sprockets, they don't stretch.
    Measure the side plates on a chain new and at replacement, is the side plate longer? answer is no it is not. The wear occurs in the pins and bushings.


  • #27
    Mycroft H
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,313 ✭✭✭Mycroft H


    CJhaughey wrote: »
    Honestly thicker oil stretches chains? :rolleyes:
    Of course any manufacturer will ask if you have a service history, if you don't it makes life a lot simpler for them.
    I will let you in on a secret, chains don't stretch, they wear.
    :rolleyes:


    You may eat humble pie :D


    I've seen only one stretch (bearing in mind, im not a professional mechanic) but ive seen it with my own eyes, they can and do

    Had the pleasure of trying to replace on in a merc 190 1.8 that was in rag order from the previous order with my uncle, a job that took quite a while :)


  • #28
    dmca77
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 151 ✭✭dmca77


    CJhaughey

    Out numbered my friend.

    Hate when wrong are you.

    And you are.. Timing chains do not wear they stretch...


    bummer

    Not changed many in car engines and inspected have we now!!!!!!!!!!


  • #29
    Mycroft H
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,313 ✭✭✭Mycroft H


    dmca77 wrote: »
    CJhaughey

    Out numbered my friend.

    Hate when wrong are you.

    And you are.. Timing chains do not wear they stretch...


    bummer

    Not changed many in car engines and inspected have we now!!!!!!!!!!


    You sir are the opposite as whats known as a sore loser. Get over it your right.


  • #30
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66,633 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    dmca77 wrote: »
    You go to any the manufacturer of your Nissan Almera with a chain problem first thing you are asked does the vehicle have a service history

    FYP ;)

    My ads on adverts.ie:

    https://www.adverts.ie/member/5856/ads



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  • #31
    Slidey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,811 ✭✭✭✭Slidey


    Oh great, the max power mechanics have landed


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