Joseph Moshe - Arrested in LA by FBI for Going Public about Vaccine

squod · 26-11-2009 10:41PM

bonkey wrote: »

Hold on a second...the counterclaims made are :

1) The claims being made ignore the fact that the details don't match. Evidence of this has been shown.

2) There is no evidence to support the claim being made, regarding Baxter having a lab in Urkaine. It's impossible to actually show "no evidence". What one can show is that the evidence which can be found doesn't support the claim...which has been done.

This isn't sniping. These are valid, salient points. The details do not match, and there is no evidence that a Baxter lab exists. I'm at a loss to understand what your objection is to thee points.

Again I've asked for proof that there are no Baxter affiliated labs in Ukraine. You say there isn't?

bonkey · 26-11-2009 10:56PM

squod wrote: »

Again I've asked for proof that there are no Baxter affiliated labs in Ukraine. You say there isn't?

I'm not sure what posts you've been reading,.

I have repeatedly said that Baxter have no facilities that I can find.
imstrongerthenyou has said that he couldn't see any official company.

What has been said is that no evidence has been found to support the existence of such an entity.

You've gotten up in arms about this, insisting we do the impossible and prove that such an entity doesn't exist...and all I'm asking is that you apply the same standards equally.

Get up in arms about people making claims that Moshe predicted the recent events, because they require it to exist and have provided no evidence.

You're the one insisting this isn't a one-way street....so live up to that. Hold both sides to the same standards.

bonkey · 26-11-2009 10:57PM

Incidentally, you can't prove non-existence. Asking someone to do so is either disingenuous, or showing a flawed understanding of logic.

squod · 26-11-2009 11:14PM

bonkey wrote: »

you can't prove non-existence........

I've heard this before somewhere. I've said it's likely that Baxter has affilliates, a point which isn't hard to disprove. Baxter aren't non-existant and neither are their affiliates.

As for J. Moshe, I'm not so interested as I am to find out that Baxter are shipping live 'flu viruses all over the gaff. If he tried to forewarn us then thank you kind sir.

Nehaxak · 27-11-2009 12:16AM

Just hope you were all watching the latest episode of V tonight.

Compund R6 in the flu vaccine was it ?

imstrongerthanu · 27-11-2009 12:17AM

What bonkey said is common sense.
The story goes Baxter has a lab in the Ukraine.I posted where they have their labs and Ukraine isn't on the list.
So you say they may have subsidiaries,ok fine lets find them together and get to the bottom of this?
Agreed?

meglome · 27-11-2009 12:24AM

squod wrote: »

I've heard this before somewhere. I've said it's likely that Baxter has affilliates, a point which isn't hard to disprove. Baxter aren't non-existant and neither are their affiliates.

As for J. Moshe, I'm not so interested as I am to find out that Baxter are shipping live 'flu viruses all over the gaff. If he tried to forewarn us then thank you kind sir.

Some people say the earth is flat, for a number of logical reasons I believe them to be wrong. I'm not making any claims about the earth whatsoever so I don't need to prove anything. However if they could prove it using reliable evidence then I'd seriously have to look at my belief the earth isn't flat. But until they can come up with some serious evidence I'll happy believe what I believe.

I find it perplexing that you think we need to prove you wrong when you can't even prove your right to any even basic standard. We can't even show that this Moshe guys isn't just some mental patient who's latched on to paranoia about vaccinations. Can you not even see that your standards of proof are almost non existent when they are conspiracy driven topics but it's almost impossible to convince you the conspiracy doesn't add up?

27-11-2009 12:49AM

meglome wrote: »

We can't even show that this Moshe guys isn't just some mental patient who's latched on to paranoia about vaccinations.

We haven't even been shown if this guy even said anything about vaccines let alone made any predictions about the Ukraine.

bad act · 27-11-2009 01:07AM

US-Ukraine Business Council

Professionals, Drexel University; Baxter; Novo Nordisk; Norvartis; Incyte Corp; the HIV-AIDS Initiative which includes Roche, Abbot, Merck, ...
www.usubc.org/AUR/aur565.php - Cached

1. INTERNATIONAL HEALTH CARE INITIATIVE LAUNCHED
BY THE UKRAINIAN FEDERATION OF AMERICA
First Lady Kateryna Yushchenko addresses the initial meeting
E. Morgan Williams, Publisher and Editor
The Action Ukraine Report (AUR), Number 565, Article 1
Washington, D.C., Tuesday, September 20, 2005

Dr. Chernyk said the Federation will lead a delegation representing the
health care organizations and companies to Ukraine in early November
for a series of meeting with the Ministry of Health, the International Fund
"Ukraine 3000'" and other groups and to develop further plans for the
new Initiative's work in Ukraine. Kateryna Yushchenko stated she
looked forward to meeting with the delegation in Kyiv.
Some of the organizations and companies who met with Kateryna
Yushchenko at the Federation meeting included the American International
Health Alliance; Public Health Laboratories; Children's Hospital of
Philadelphia; World Federation of Ukrainian Medical Association; Safe
Blood International Foundation; College of Nursing and Health
Professionals, Drexel University; Baxter; Novo Nordisk; Norvartis; Incyte
Corp; the HIV-AIDS Initiative which includes Roche, Abbot, Merck,
Boeringer-Ingelheim, Bristol Myers Squibb, Glaxo-Smithkline and Gilead;
Ukraine-U.S. Business Council and The Bleyzer Foundation.

US-Ukraine Business Council

[9] Baxter Healthcare [10] Professional Care Options This organization develops educational internet and tele- conferencing programs for physician and other ...
www.usubc.org/AUR/aur644.php - Cached

6. UKRAINIAN FEDERATION OF AMERICA PROJECT LIFELINE
DELEGATION MEETS IN UKRAINE WITH TOP OFFICIALS
Ukrainian Federation of America (UFA)
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, Wednesday, January 18, 2006

6. UKRAINIAN FEDERATION OF AMERICA PROJECT LIFELINE
DELEGATION MEETS IN UKRAINE WITH TOP OFFICIALS

Ukrainian Federation of America (UFA)
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, Wednesday, January 18, 2006

PHILADELPHIA - In December 2005, the Ukrainian Federation of America
(UFA) led a delegation to Kyiv, to meet with Ukraine's First Lady Kateryna
Yushchenko, the Ukrainian Ministry of Health and representatives of Fund
"Ukraine-3000."

This was the second in a series of meetings to develop Project Lifeline
which focuses on aiding Ukrainian national development and alleviating the
health crisis facing Ukraine today.

Participants of the Ukrainian Federation's Project Lifeline include:
[1] Safe Blood International
[2] The World Hemophilia Foundation
[3] The World Aids Foundation
[4] Global AID Access
This organization coordinates the efforts and donations of
Pharmaceutical companies producing anti HIV/AIDS medications.
[5] Adolescent HIV/AIDS Unit (Children's Hospital of Philadelphia)

[6] Hematology/Oncology Department (Children's Hospital of Philadelphia)
[7] Novo Nordisk
[8] Novartis
[9] Baxter Healthcare

imstrongerthanu · 27-11-2009 01:11AM

All the text you just pasted is useless.It says nothing about baxter OR any other company operating in the ukraine.It only says they had 2 meetings with dozens of companies.

squod · 27-11-2009 01:17AM

meglome wrote: »

Some people say the earth is flat, for a number of logical reasons I believe them to be wrong. I'm not making any claims about the earth whatsoever so I don't need to prove anything. However if they could prove it using reliable evidence then I'd seriously have to look at my belief the earth isn't flat. But until they can come up with some serious evidence I'll happy believe what I believe.

I find it perplexing that you think we need to prove you wrong when you can't even prove your right to any even basic standard. We can't even show that this Moshe guys isn't just some mental patient who's latched on to paranoia about vaccinations. Can you not even see that your standards of proof are almost non existent when they are conspiracy driven topics but it's almost impossible to convince you the conspiracy doesn't add up?

Since you haven't bothered reading what I wrote I won't bother myself with you, believe the earth is flat or whatever. :rolleyes:

meglome wrote: »

.....can't even prove your right to any even basic standard.

This about sums you up. I'm all done here. Don't fall off the Earth when I'm gone.:rolleyes:

imstrongerthanu · 27-11-2009 01:27AM

squod wrote: »

Since you haven't bothered reading what I wrote I won't bother myself with you, believe the earth is flat or whatever. :rolleyes:

This about sums you up. I'm all done here. Don't fall off the Earth when I'm gone.:rolleyes:

So your running away because you cannot find on google a lab in the ukraine.That's a fair enough reason.

Because i can't find one either and it's not from lack of effort.

http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&client=firefox-a&channel=s&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&hs=Ym9&q=baxter+subsidiaries+ukraine+-joseph+-Pneumonic+-plague+-swine&start=30&sa=N

baxter subsidiaries ukraine -joseph -Pneumonic -plague -swine

As you can see i know how to search for information...

squod · 27-11-2009 02:09AM

imstrongerthanu wrote: »

So your running away because you cannot find on google a lab in the ukraine.That's a fair enough reason.

Because i can't find one either and it's not from lack of effort.

http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&client=firefox-a&channel=s&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&hs=Ym9&q=baxter+subsidiaries+ukraine+-joseph+-Pneumonic+-plague+-swine&start=30&sa=N

baxter subsidiaries ukraine -joseph -Pneumonic -plague -swine

As you can see i know how to search for information...

Baxter Ukraine

29 Beresnyakovskaya st
02098 Kiev
Phone: +38 044 4962410

toffyapple · 27-11-2009 02:46AM

Here's a link from 1999 showing Baxter had "interests" in Ukraine

http://www.scribd.com/doc/12844642/The-Ukrainian-Weekly-199910

Page 8 and continued on 17 is a story which shows Baxter supplied supplies at cost and donated dialysis machines and water treatment equipment.
This shows a foot in the door for baxter in ukraine 10 years ago.

Heres more help from baxter to ukraine.
The Emergency Medical Aid for Ukraine:
With the financial support of generous individual donors and corporate donations from Baxter Corporation, this project can been successfully implemented.
http://www.cym.org/archives/lifeline.asp

So anybody who says baxter dont have interests in ukraine are wrong.

Project Lifeline
Project Lifeline relies on a teleconference education and information network that includes physicians, nurses, technologists, pharmacists, social workers, and public education professionals. It also has a professional development treatment organization that carries out project planning and management, business planning, and human resources management. We assist laboratories, clinics and hospitals with equipment maintenance, medical supplies, and the standardization of procedures and inspections, and also social service, counseling and drug rehabilitation for HIV, Hepatitis, TB, Hemophilia, Leukemia and other malignancies.

Baxter are part of Project Lifeline
http://www.ukrainianfederationofamerica.com/Healthcare/ProjectLifeline.aspx
Project Lifeline is a comprehensive effort to help the people of Ukraine. The Ukrainian Federation of America is proud to be a partner.
(Updated 5/4/2009)

So I think it would be safe to say Baxter have access to labs in ukraine.

toffyapple · 27-11-2009 02:51AM

http://www.baxterbiotherapeutics.com/eu/eu_contact.html

Its Ukraine address is there.

toffyapple · 27-11-2009 02:57AM

imstrongerthanu wrote: »

So your running away because you cannot find on google a lab in the ukraine.That's a fair enough reason.

Because i can't find one either and it's not from lack of effort.

http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&client=firefox-a&channel=s&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&hs=Ym9&q=baxter+subsidiaries+ukraine+-joseph+-Pneumonic+-plague+-swine&start=30&sa=N

baxter subsidiaries ukraine -joseph -Pneumonic -plague -swine

As you can see i know how to search for information...

Try:
baxter ukraine contact Guess your not as good as you thought.

meglome · 27-11-2009 03:56AM

squod wrote: »

Since you haven't bothered reading what I wrote I won't bother myself with you, believe the earth is flat or whatever. :rolleyes:

I read exactly what you wrote and the different claims. The next logical step should be to backup the claims... by the people making the claims.

squod wrote: »

This about sums you up. I'm all done here. Don't fall off the Earth when I'm gone.:rolleyes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simile

squod wrote: »

Baxter Ukraine

29 Beresnyakovskaya st
02098 Kiev
Phone: +38 044 4962410

toffyapple wrote: »

So anybody who says baxter dont have interests in ukraine are wrong.

I never had any issue believing a corporate like Baxter would have some kind of presence in the Ukraine. But for the story to have any basis in reality the people making the claim should be able to show they really do, which you now have.

Now we next have to sort out whether this is just some sales operation with 10 people employed or a large laboratory like it's claimed.

toffyapple wrote: »

Project Lifeline
Project Lifeline relies on a teleconference education and information network that includes physicians, nurses, technologists, pharmacists, social workers, and public education professionals. It also has a professional development treatment organization that carries out project planning and management, business planning, and human resources management. We assist laboratories, clinics and hospitals with equipment maintenance, medical supplies, and the standardization of procedures and inspections, and also social service, counseling and drug rehabilitation for HIV, Hepatitis, TB, Hemophilia, Leukemia and other malignancies.

Baxter are part of Project Lifeline
http://www.ukrainianfederationofamerica.com/Healthcare/ProjectLifeline.aspx
Project Lifeline is a comprehensive effort to help the people of Ukraine. The Ukrainian Federation of America is proud to be a partner.
(Updated 5/4/2009)

So I think it would be safe to say Baxter have access to labs in ukraine.

I have no issue believing Baxter could have access to labs all over the world. Corporates like Baxter work with hospitals and universities all over the world, including Ireland. However we're adding layers and layers of additional people (even students work in some of these labs) that would have to be involved. And of course some of these labs may just be making new foot creams for all we know, not every lab (most likely a very small percentage) are involved in making virus's or vaccines.

imstrongerthanu · 27-11-2009 08:17AM

imstrongerthanu wrote:

So you say they may have subsidiaries,ok fine lets find them together and get to the bottom of this?
Agreed?

As you can clearly see I'm not trying to argue or make anyone look bad.

Baxter Ukraine

29 Beresnyakovskaya st
02098 Kiev
Phone: +38 044 4962410

This address is not an address of any lab, it is an address of a regional office.

toffyapple

That news paper doesn't say anything about Baxter having labs in the Ukraine.It says they give supplies to the Ukraine. And 50 doctors went to the Ukraine while paying for it out of their own wages to lend a hand.
The other links is again more supplies and equipment.

So I think it would be safe to say Baxter have access to labs in ukraine.

What labs because making a vaccine or bioweapon would want to be some sophisticated expensive labs.So WE cannot find these labs.Yes I too want to find out.

Try:
baxter ukraine contact Guess your not as good as you thought.

That's a sales office/regional office......

This is not a competition to see who is the better google searcher.

squod · 27-11-2009 02:25PM

bonkey wrote: »

If someone can show me a report predating the outbreak of events in Ukraine, where Moshe is attributed with saying that this woul dhappen, I'll give that serious consideration.

http://www.rense.com/general88/bax.htm

In February of 2009, Bloomberg reported that Baxter "accidentally" sent vaccine material containing both live Avian bird flu and seasonal influenza to multiple laboratories worldwide.

What dates are you looking for?

bonkey · 27-11-2009 02:55PM

squod wrote: »

http://www.rense.com/general88/bax.htm

Thats an article from November, reporting the events in Ukraine, and wondering about the very same connection that's being discussed here.

I accept that Moshe reportedly mentioned Ukraine, but from what I can see - both on that Rense article and everything else I've read - Moshe did not predict an outbreak of anything in the Ukraine. He asserted, rather, that a Baxter lab in the Ukraine was developing a bio-weapon hidden in a vaccine.

After the events in the Ukraine, we started seeing commentaries asking if this was what Moshe predicted...but I can't find a single report from before these events suggesting that Moshe predicted an oubreak in Ukraine.

The events from February, regarding Baxter can also not be what Moshe predicted, for three clear reasons:

1) The contamination (regardless whether you believe it to be deliberate or accidental) was not what Moshe predicted

and
2) It originated in Baxter's Austrian lab

and (perhaps most importantly)
3) It occurred and was repored before Moshe made his predictions.

So where does that leave us?

We have an event, predating Moshe's prediction, which doesn't match the details he gave, but which involved Baxter and flu vaccine
We have an event, postdating Moshe's prediction, which doesn't match the details he gave, but which involved Ukraine

If we take those two events, work on the basis that they're connected, we have two events, which collectively involve Baxter, a flu vaccine, the Ukraine and which still doesn't match the details of Moshe's predictions.

But other then Moshe's predictions...what links the contaminated flu vaccine from Baxter and the events in Ukraine? So far...nothing.

Diogenes · 27-11-2009 03:44PM

squod wrote: »

http://www.rense.com/general88/bax.htm

What dates are you looking for?

The author of said piece goes by the pseudonym of "David Rothscum", and admits it's an anonymous pen name.

Thats right kids, anonymous reports on the internet passing off as journalism.

Diogenes · 27-11-2009 03:46PM

bonkey wrote: »

If we take those two events, work on the basis that they're connected, we have two events, which collectively involve Baxter, a flu vaccine, the Ukraine and which still doesn't match the details of Moshe's predictions.

But other then Moshe's predictions...what links the contaminated flu vaccine from Baxter and the events in Ukraine? So far...nothing.

Alleged prediction. The radio host has provided neither transcript or recording of the conversation heand Moshe apparently had, when he made this prediction.

bonkey · 27-11-2009 04:10PM

Diogenes wrote: »

Alleged prediction. The radio host has provided neither transcript or recording of the conversation heand Moshe apparently had, when he made this prediction.

Fair point.

However, if Moshe didn't make the prediction, then the host did, or some unknown party who the host got it from and then misattributed the source.

Either which way, someone made the prediction.

bonkey · 27-11-2009 07:54PM

I should have said, in the previous post, that someone made the claim, because on further reflection, Moshe (or whoever it was) didn't actually predict anything. They claimed they had evidence that something was occurring.

Incidentally, for those who want to point out that there's still something suspicious about Ukraine popping up on the radar at all, I would point out that starting in April a mutation of flu has been observed in at least the following countries:

Brazil, China, Japan, Mexico, Ukraine, the US and Norway.

The mutation has been found in cases ranging from mild to fatal in nature.

squod · 27-11-2009 08:16PM

Russia Today are reporting a jurassic flu. Speculation among people that the 'flu DNA was taken from a victim of the 1918 Spanish 'flu epidemic. Similar symptoms were reported among patients suffering in Ukraine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXcPr3QzChs

imstrongerthanu · 27-11-2009 10:34PM

squod wrote: »

Russia Today are reporting a jurassic flu. Speculation among people that the 'flu DNA was taken from a victim of the 1918 Spanish 'flu epidemic. Similar symptoms were reported among patients suffering in Ukraine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXcPr3QzChs

The fact is the origin of the Spanish flu was taken from that womans body.But I don't know is there evidence to say the flu going now is the spanish flu?
You never went back to acknowledged your mistake about the Baxter lab address.

squod · 27-11-2009 10:41PM

imstrongerthanu wrote: »

You never went back to acknowledged your mistake about the Baxter lab address.

Baxter Biotherapeutics
Baxter Ukraine
29 Beresnyakovskaya st
02098 Kiev
Phone: +38 044 4962410

What mistake? Fairly easy to find affiliate links from the main Baxter website.

imstrongerthanu · 27-11-2009 10:55PM

squod wrote: »

Baxter Biotherapeutics
Baxter Ukraine
29 Beresnyakovskaya st
02098 Kiev
Phone: +38 044 4962410

What mistake? Fairly easy to find affiliate links from the main Baxter website.

Is it an address of a lab where they have the ability to produce vaccines and such?

Diogenes · 27-11-2009 11:27PM

squod wrote: »

Russia Today are reporting a jurassic flu. Speculation among people that the 'flu DNA was taken from a victim of the 1918 Spanish 'flu epidemic. Similar symptoms were reported among patients suffering in Ukraine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXcPr3QzChs

Russia today is currently criticised as the unofficial broadcasting arm of the kremlin.

mcmoustache · 27-11-2009 11:54PM

mysterious wrote: »

The governments sites are not very credible at times. So it's really biased to be so against conspiracy sites for info.

There's a good reason to ignore CT sites. It's the same reason you won't take health advice from a GlaxoSmythKline rep.The same reason I didn't trust that guy in a well-known, advanced, hair studio who told me I was going bald. The same reason you don't watch Fox News when you want to know, well, anything. CT sites are selling your eyeball-minutes to sellers of bomb-shelters. They advertise books and lecture tours to you. The irony is that they tell you to "wake up" when all they do is turn you into a "sheeple".

Don't take advice from people selling you stuff. They always have an agenda.

Joseph Moshe - Arrested in LA by FBI for Going Public about Vaccine

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