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People who got 500+points in 2009 Leaving cert....

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  • 28-10-2009 11:37am
    #1
    NightOwl91
    Closed Accounts Posts: 67 ✭✭


    I hope there isnt a title like this floating around lol
    But anyway....I need to get 500-550 points
    :eek:
    So, I was wondering, if anyone got 490-550points, any advice?
    To get that amount of points, how much study or homework should I be doing, what should I be doing when studying, when do I revise 5th year stuff etc, how much should I use my papers etc and any study tricks or tips? And how much study is advisable on weekends? ETC!!
    Please help!!:D


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    #2
    zoom!
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 327 ✭✭zoom!


    I haven't done my LC yet but I can guess what they're gonna say...

    Be organised, keep study consistent and overall just work hard to make sure that you know everything you need to know in June. Theres not escaping it... the amount of points depends on the quality and quantity of ur study so stop posting and start studying :P But remember not to over do it... 5 hours is plenty on a day off like these :)


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    #3
    Eire-Dearg
    Registered Users Posts: 8,900 ✭✭✭Eire-Dearg


    I was originally aiming for 550, when I took a fancy to Veterinary in Dublin.

    I haven't opened a book this mid-term.

    No chance.


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    #4
    DancingQueen:)
    Registered Users Posts: 2,062 ✭✭✭DancingQueen:)


    I was aiming for high points until about half way through 5th year, didn't think it would be so hard. I'm still aiming for the high 400s but i think i'd be lucky to get that because i'm finding it really hard to just sit down and study.

    As regards to getting high points i think it depends on each person. It might take one person 10 minutes to learn something and another person 40 minutes. I just think you need to keep up with all the work you have to do in school while revising 5th year things as much as you can. And test yourself regularly. Best of Luck :D


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    #5
    NightOwl91
    Closed Accounts Posts: 67 ✭✭NightOwl91


    think its possible to get 500points or more , even though i did very little study last year?
    Like, I study now everyday....will i make it??:eek:


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    #6
    DancingQueen:)
    Registered Users Posts: 2,062 ✭✭✭DancingQueen:)


    Yeah of course. But just make sure when your studying every day your putting in the right amount of effort and studying the right things. If i 'study' one night for 3 hours sometimes i'll only get a small amount of work done and spend the rest of the time distracted!


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    #7
    NightOwl91
    Closed Accounts Posts: 67 ✭✭NightOwl91


    DancingQueen:) wrote: »
    Yeah of course. But just make sure when your studying every day your putting in the right amount of effort and studying the right things. If i 'study' one night for 3 hours sometimes i'll only get a small amount of work done and spend the rest of the time distracted!


    Heres the plan: 2hrs of Homework a night
    3hrs of study a night
    (not in full study blocks but i break every 30-35mins...I kinda need those serious 30mins to actually take in info)
    Bed by 10 lol :o

    Then about 8hrs on saturday AND sunday...


    Is it enough?


    ....Thank god theres coffee....


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    #8
    DancingQueen:)
    Registered Users Posts: 2,062 ✭✭✭DancingQueen:)


    I'm sure it is fair play though, i know i couldn't do it :o What do you want to do when you leave school as a matter of interest?


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    #9
    NightOwl91
    Closed Accounts Posts: 67 ✭✭NightOwl91


    DancingQueen:) wrote: »
    I'm sure it is fair play though, i know i couldn't do it :o What do you want to do when you leave school as a matter of interest?


    2bh, I just wanna do the LC once and give it everything I got.
    7months isnt too much to give up compared to what im going to get out of it in the longrun...thats how im lookin at it anyway to keep me sane haha

    I want to do general nursing in UCC....thing is, i need 500pts and over to secure a place a midwife told me on the open day....the joy

    :eek: Coffee......:rolleyes:


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    #10
    RandomIrl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 234 ✭✭RandomIrl


    a little bit every night, proper focused study, writing out your own notes,learning them checking them testing yourself. Doing exam papers, writing out essays. Learning notes if thats what you want.

    The most important is balance, do something you enjoy to break up the monotonous routine... and most of all sleep, dont burn yourself out..

    Id say..1.5 hrs- 2hrs after homework on weekdays
    and a good 3-5 hours on a saturday and sunday( it wont eat into your weekend if you get up early enough)
    then increase it after christmas..
    MOST IMPORTANT IS SLEEP...........................LOTS OF SLEEP.
    you are wasting your time studying/going to school tired, get a good nights sleep every night.


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    #11
    tangowhiskey
    Registered Users Posts: 40 ✭tangowhiskey


    I did my LC last year and I got 500 points (not bragging, just saying:D).

    OP, despite what teachers may say, it is still relatively early. I wasn't overly-stressed until the New Year/Feb. mid-term.

    As everyone above said, be organised, keep on top of your written homework as well as revision and get a good night's sleep.

    I was doing ~2hrs a night written homework and then another 1-2hrs on revision. It sounds a lot but if you get yourself into a routine, it becomes easier. Remember, the homework stops sometime in April/May when the teachers realise that you need to study!

    There really is no quick-fix to getting high points, but I'll try and help. I don't know the subjects you're doing, so apologies if these are irrelevant.

    For a subject like Biology, I found Essentials in Biology (something like that) by Mona Murray to be a God-send, it's a summary book. Eason sell it for ~€7. We only got it in March/April, but it was much better than wading through the textbook we had. Having said that, you need to read through the chapter first. What I did was to summarise the summary, it was sticking in my memory.

    The main point is to be able to pick out the main points/key phrases/key words etc; ask your teachers if you need help.

    If you have time over the holidays and up until the New Year, do extra questions/essays etc and ask your teacher to mark them - they should be glad to help. This is especially helpful in English and Irish.

    For Irish/other languages (I did Italian), it helps to build up a "word-bank" of vocab, and to practise different essays (Irish).

    Maths was my most hated subject (because of the teacher, not the course). The only way to tackle it is to do exam questions.

    As for the weekends, I don't think I ever studied on a Friday or Saturday. On Sunday, I just did ~3hrs revising what we did the week before.

    Also remember that there are projects/aurals/orals that guarantee you some marks.


    I hope I haven't scared you - this was just me, not everyone can and will do the same. Others have different ways of study - you need to find the one that's right for you.

    I'm sorry that this post is never-ending, I hope I haven't bored you.

    Finally: enjoy the experience - it will be over in 7 months or so, and then you'll be a "good-for-nothing" college student. And Feel free to PM me if you wish.

    Good Luck!


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    #12
    ayumi
    Registered Users Posts: 676 ✭✭✭ayumi


    TerryAW wrote: »
    I did my LC last year and I got 500 points (not bragging, just saying:D).

    OP, despite what teachers may say, it is still relatively early. I wasn't overly-stressed until the New Year/Feb. mid-term.

    As everyone above said, be organised, keep on top of your written homework as well as revision and get a good night's sleep.

    I was doing ~2hrs a night written homework and then another 1-2hrs on revision. It sounds a lot but if you get yourself into a routine, it becomes easier. Remember, the homework stops sometime in April/May when the teachers realise that you need to study!

    There really is no quick-fix to getting high points, but I'll try and help. I don't know the subjects you're doing, so apologies if these are irrelevant.

    For a subject like Biology, I found Essentials in Biology (something like that) by Mona Murray to be a God-send, it's a summary book. Eason sell it for ~€7. We only got it in March/April, but it was much better than wading through the textbook we had. Having said that, you need to read through the chapter first. What I did was to summarise the summary, it was sticking in my memory.

    The main point is to be able to pick out the main points/key phrases/key words etc; ask your teachers if you need help.

    If you have time over the holidays and up until the New Year, do extra questions/essays etc and ask your teacher to mark them - they should be glad to help. This is especially helpful in English and Irish.

    For Irish/other languages (I did Italian), it helps to build up a "word-bank" of vocab, and to practise different essays (Irish).

    Maths was my most hated subject (because of the teacher, not the course). The only way to tackle it is to do exam questions.

    As for the weekends, I don't think I ever studied on a Friday or Saturday. On Sunday, I just did ~3hrs revising what we did the week before.

    Also remember that there are projects/aurals/orals that guarantee you some marks.


    I hope I haven't scared you - this was just me, not everyone can and will do the same. Others have different ways of study - you need to find the one that's right for you.

    I'm sorry that this post is never-ending, I hope I haven't bored you.

    Finally: enjoy the experience - it will be over in 7 months or so, and then you'll be a "good-for-nothing" college student. And Feel free to PM me if you wish.

    Good Luck!

    what course do you do now at college?


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    #13
    Calum196
    Closed Accounts Posts: 125 ✭✭Calum196


    Well I got 515 last year... still repeating though... but anyway

    The absolute, number 1, main thing is that you have 6/7 subjects that suit you... There no point hoping the god will be good and give you an A1 in English if you cant write good essays now, that go's for any subject. If you dont think you are working for and have the ability for (you need both) an A1 in a subject, you need to treat it like an anchor on ship that you need to cut off.

    Seriously, people starting 5th and 6th year for the first time usually really do not
    understand the level of work that is required... I'll give some tips on the subjects I'm familiar with...

    Chemistry/Biology/Physics - WRITE IT DOWN WRITE IT DOWN WRITE IT DOWN, seriously if you cant write it, you dont know it, you dont know if you know it unless you can write it. Reaction process, equations, definitions, the lot. You could read a book for hours and not get anything done, or at least anything your going to remember in 6 months time. Exam questions are very important too, get the marking schemes online too... From about easter to june thats all you should be working on. If your learning about Bohrs theory or cell structure two weeks before the exam, you may as well close the book... your ****ed.

    Languages (not irish) - Verbs + Unusual Nouns + Some nice cover all fancy phrases (15/20) + the main grammer points = A1 in your written paper... its really not a lot of work.


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    #14
    (-Nathan-)
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24 ✭(-Nathan-)


    Calum196 wrote: »
    Well I got 515 last year... still repeating though...

    .


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    #15
    HQvhs
    Registered Users Posts: 313 ✭✭HQvhs


    Just be structured and organised, and work at a steady pace.

    Have a target for each exam, with the ultimate goal being for the LC itself, and work towards that.

    It's often said, and may be a cliche, but getting high points really just needs focus and a little work, often.

    Also, *do not* cram!


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    #16
    Lawliet
    Registered Users Posts: 2,761 ✭✭✭Lawliet


    HQvhs wrote: »
    Also, *do not* cram!
    Meh I wouldn't knock the cramming, I did nothing in geography all year and managed to get an B1 after six hours of cramming :p

    But, yeah, generally not advised unless you really are genuinely f**ked.


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    #17
    Leeg17
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,127 ✭✭✭✭Leeg17


    Got 510 last year, very happy with it :rolleyes:

    What I did was just evening study in school (4-6), and then maybe 7.30-10.30 most days, on weekends maybe 5 hours sat and sunday.

    Mostly it's about being organized, going over stuff again and again, and talk to teachers if you're getting stuck on certain parts of the course, I know I did.

    There's no must for time studying, some people get it first time, others don't and that's fine. For me, I found I remembered stuff by writing it out, mostly short concise bulletpoints, only write down the stuff you need to know!

    Good luck! :o


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    #18
    TheCandystripes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 553 ✭✭✭TheCandystripes


    and start using exam papers early. get into the mind of the examinor/corrector.


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    #19
    GeeNorm
    Registered Users Posts: 162 ✭✭GeeNorm


    Pick your school and pick your subjects well. Top 5 schools all average about 510-520 per student.

    Obviously late in the day but if institutes are an option, they seem exam orientated.

    Applied Maths used to guarantee min 80 points not sure what the shoe-ins are now


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    #20
    meathawk
    Registered Users Posts: 334 ✭✭meathawk


    I got 490 by just working in class like for English I'd just do the essays given but never learn them off.English was a bit of a night before kind of thing as were physics and geography.Got Bs and As in them.Maths was the thing I worked for, I did grinds for a few months and eventually got a B but it was really the only thing I thought was worth working at.French is tricky, my only C in the leaving cert was in french and I thought I had gotten atleast a B.For languages if I were to do it all over again I'd concentrate hard on french.I'd nearly go as far as saying to learn things off for french and don't be overly confident after the mock orals work with consistency I just sort of thought I was sorted and placed little time and emphasis on french.Oh I'd strongely advise people not to do Classics I worked solidly for two weeks(study I mean I would always do class work) to get that B, I'd say Economics would be a lot better and easier.

    All in all the key is instead of panicking use your time on doing a part of an exam paper.I used revise wise for every subject except for English and Irish.I used wikipedia a lot for geography and making up my own little statistics.I was never much of a note writer I'd usually just read things, but for longer questions in the papers I'd write a sample answer but learning stuff off really wasn't for me.It's risque-involved and lame.For maths I did purely exam papers really.
    that is all


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    #21
    Cool Mo D
    Registered Users Posts: 1,419 ✭✭✭Cool Mo D


    It's been a few years since I did my leaving, and I got over 500, without doing lots of study. But the one thing I did do was be very organised.

    As you go through each subject in class, make sure you fully understand it. Especially things like maths. Try and pay attention in class - it is so, so much easier to learn something when it's being explained to you, rather than from the book. If you don't understand something, ask questions then, not later.

    The key is to know the material properly when you cover it in class. When you go back to study it in the weeks before your leaving, nothing should be new to you at all, it will just need freshening in your mind. Don't worry so much about study until later, just make sure to keep well on top of homework and especially oral language work. Then, a few months before the exams, you can start tackling exam papers open book, and when you're comfortable with that you should start practising full closed book exams by yourself. If you have enough of this done before the exams, you'll be set.


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    #22
    eoins2345
    Closed Accounts Posts: 154 ✭✭eoins2345


    funnily enough i learned about bohrs theory for da first time 4 days before da exam an got an A1 so cramming can work if ya have enough time!


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    #23
    segaBOY
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,563 ✭✭✭segaBOY


    I got 545 however I went a weird way about it.

    I realised that languages weren't my strong point and I could never achieve anywhere near an A1 in them but I still needed to keep them up for entrance to my college.

    So I took on extra subjects and sort of ignored the languages. Did 9 subjects and didn't count English, Irish or French. Worked well ended up getting my course.

    And of course plenty of study! If the subjects you pick interest you it really helps in my opinion. I really loved doing a lot of the subjects I picked so getting my points was that bit easier.

    Good luck!!! :)


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    #24
    whadabouchasir
    Registered Users Posts: 942 ✭✭✭whadabouchasir


    Calum196 wrote: »

    Chemistry/Biology/Physics - WRITE IT DOWN WRITE IT DOWN WRITE IT DOWN, seriously if you cant write it, you dont know it, you dont know if you know it unless you can write it. Reaction process, equations, definitions, the lot. You could read a book for hours and not get anything done, or at least anything your going to remember in 6 months time.
    I think that the best way to study is to find the way that suits you,and for me this wasn't writing out note.I basically just read the book and did exam questions for all my subjects including chemistry and physics. I did 4-5 hours per night between study and homework and a bit more on the weekends and got 590. The most important thing is to study based on your learninng style.To find out try different ones e.g flash cards,spider diagrams,reading or listening to recorded notes and then test yourself with a blank piece of paper. Best of luck everyone!


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    #25
    myfatherrsson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 107 ✭✭myfatherrsson


    Everything you need is right here..
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055644307

    Jam-Flys post on the second page is the best crash course to the LC Ive ever read!! Everyone in 6th year should copy, paste and print that and stick it to their walls! Its GOLD!


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    #26
    Danc124
    Closed Accounts Posts: 60 ✭✭Danc124


    I did an hour study and an hour homework every night regradless of weekends.I got 570.Everyones different though.


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    #27
    ironclaw
    Registered Users Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭ironclaw


    There is no golden rule so to speak. I got 500+ last year and suppose here are my tips

    1) Study. Sounds stupid but the more you skive off the worse you feel. Just do a small bit. Its better than none and you will feel better after it. Forget studying at Midterms. Its not worth it. You'll be exhausted. Just do any homework you have and personal study

    2) Keep notes and make small ones of stuff you never get. They do help.

    3) Do all the exam papers you can get your hands on. I finished every exam paper available and would have done more if I could. You'll notice very quickly that the same questions appear year in, year out.

    4) Quickly realise which are your best subject and stick to them. If you do 7 subjects be careful, however if you do 8 you can effectively drop one. If you ain't good at foreign languages do your best but after that pump the brakes and concentrate on other subjects. If you don't get it, move on.

    5) What you get in June is what you get. Don't fool yourself is my advice. Points increases after repeating are minimal. Studies by numerous people/companies/orgainisations have shown its at best 25 / 30, tops 50. If you get 400 this year, you won't be getting 600 next year. Be realistic and remember there are avenues other than repeating. I amn't knocking repeating. Just do the work this year and move on.

    6) Don't wish yourself out of secondary as its a huge shock to the system when you do. Treasure the time you have. Not everyone is made for college and not everyone is made for school, so treasure the time you have for both.

    Best of Luck!


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    #28
    TheCandystripes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 553 ✭✭✭TheCandystripes


    ironclaw wrote: »
    There is no golden rule so to speak. I got 500+ last year and suppose here are my tips

    1) Study. Sounds stupid but the more you skive off the worse you feel. Just do a small bit. Its better than none and you will feel better after it. Forget studying at Midterms. Its not worth it. You'll be exhausted. Just do any homework you have and personal study

    2) Keep notes and make small ones of stuff you never get. They do help.

    3) Do all the exam papers you can get your hands on. I finished every exam paper available and would have done more if I could. You'll notice very quickly that the same questions appear year in, year out.

    4) Quickly realise which are your best subject and stick to them. If you do 7 subjects be careful, however if you do 8 you can effectively drop one. If you ain't good at foreign languages do your best but after that pump the brakes and concentrate on other subjects. If you don't get it, move on.

    5) What you get in June is what you get. Don't fool yourself is my advice. Points increases after repeating are minimal. Studies by numerous people/companies/orgainisations have shown its at best 25 / 30, tops 50. If you get 400 this year, you won't be getting 600 next year. Be realistic and remember there are avenues other than repeating. I amn't knocking repeating. Just do the work this year and move on.

    6) Don't wish yourself out of secondary as its a huge shock to the system when you do. Treasure the time you have. Not everyone is made for college and not everyone is made for school, so treasure the time you have for both.

    Best of Luck!

    Disagree with that if I'm honest. I know a few that repeated and both went up by a good bit. I gues it depends where your coming from, the higher you get the harder it is to go up but the people i know went up by a good 150 points. like if u get 300 points lets say and repeat u could definetly get for 450 no hassle.


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    #29
    goonyougoodthin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33 ✭goonyougoodthin


    Just one piece of advice to reiterate what another poster said: study at a steady rate, don't go straight home and put your head in a book and study study study you'll only burn yourself out before Christmas and feel like crap and when you over work yourself like that you learn nothing at all and are wasting your time.

    Organise your time for work but don't stress out, the way I worked out mine was say pick 2 subjects to study per weekday at night and alternate between them,(subject1) 45mins-1hour,(break)15-20min,(subject2)45mins/1hour and so on but remember just give it your best in June and don't be worrying it's not life or death.


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    #30
    orange_peel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4 ✭orange_peel


    Having gotten 600 last year I thought I’d come in and spread some of the wisdom :D

    -A few basic things, such as knowing which subjects you will be counting are often overlooked, say if the max you think you can get in a subject is a C1, then take up something else which you know you have a better chance in. This especially applies to people who do not have an aptitude for languages and are struggling away with them when they could take up ag science o business and get an easy b1+ if it’s their kind of subject.

    -Generally, write out your own notes in subjects.

    -Don't burn yourself out too early, gradually build over the year. take a complete break at xmas so you will be in fine for form the pres, short beak after the pres, balls to the wall until the real deal.

    -Make a realistic study plan and stick too it. Never sit down to study without an idea of what you want to accomplish. Never study while tired or hungry, it’s a waste of time.

    -On the day you should have your timing sorted from before. Just stick to it, it really is that simple. This applies to every exam.

    -Make unrealistic goals. For example my actual goal was 600 so I said my gal would be t0 get 95% or higher in the 6 exams Iwas counting. This was unrealistic but when I was studying this is what I geared myself towards and I ended up getting 95% or above in 3/6 anyways ;) So say you want 450 points to be sure you get your course (430 points), aim for 500 points and sudy with this in mind and you will end up exceeding expectations. To summarise: aim for the moon, even if you miss you will be amongst the starts (or something).

    Few general tips for the subjects I got A1s in.

    Physics
    Take advantage of the fact that it’s such a short course and know it inside out. Experiments are very important and are easy maks in section one, so know diagrams methods, units and be able to draw applicable graphs etc. There are a few interesting chapters on the electron, radioactivity, x-rays. Photoelectric effect, fission and fusion, thermioic emission etc at the end of the book and you are guaranteed questions on these even though there is so little in them so know these inside out! Option wise I did particle, which was interesting so I found it easy to study, but very few do the applied electricity question so if you ahve an aptitude ofr electricity definitely go for it! Do question 5 and 11 and 12 on the day. Do exam papers until you are blue in the face, then find past pre’s and do them until you are blue in the face. Similar questions come up every year.

    Chemistry
    Can be a tricky little subject at times, and frustrating to get the finer details on. I wouldn’t recommend doing question 5, its a sneaky one, seems easy but marked hard. Knw your experiments very well, especially titrations. I found rapid revision chemistry very good. Write up your own notes. Don’t bother with the option, maybe have an idea of it as backup, bit don’t waste too much time on it. Do question 5. With redox equations and balancing just practice. Can’t remember much of the other stuff inb the course, Oh ya know gases and gas laws for a few handy marks if it comes up. Do exam papers until you are blue in the face, then find past pre’s and do them until you are blue in the face. Similar questions come up every year.

    Biology
    This was the subject I had to work hardest to get an A1 in, because there is so much learning. Something like 70% of the marks can be obtained by just knowing section 1 and 2 and all the experiments, and this should be reflected in your study, ie know them inside out. Section 3 wise there might be stuff you can leave out, but be sure you know human reproduction and plants. I know plants are boring so just grin and bear it. Biology just needs time so just keep at it and don’t let it get the better of you. Obviously exam papers are important as well.

    English
    My best subject and one in which I had a natural ability so maybe I can’t help much here. Write essays when you get them for homework. I never learned anything off for English and if you have a flair for English you shouldn’t either, the examiner can spot stuff that is made to fita title. If you are not good at English then I suppose it would be advantageous to learn stuff off, maybe take a few topics and spend a while over them yourself and write out good essays on them which you can look over from time to time. Read newspaper articles, especially if you are in 5th year or before xmas in 6th year, and write down any nice phrases you see and get in the habit of slotting them into your essays. In comprehensions identify exactly what question is being asked and endeavour to answer it precisely. Have a structure for you answers, and introductory paragraph, a few paragraphs, depending on how many marks have been allotted, and a concluding article. Paper II know three poets, know two very well. For the shakespeaan play, have a good overall knowledge of the play and iuse this knowledge in your answer. Again, if you are weak you may want to learn stuff off.

    German
    I wont be much help here, because German came very naturally to me, What I found helpful was I kept a vocab notebook; basically any new word the teacher wrote on the board or that came up in a comprehension I jotted it down and learned it off. Well usually the words just stuck in my head, but def learn them because vocab is crucial in German.Start on the oral now, and learn them all; don’t do the half-arsed thing of learning 4/5. Just practice for the letter, and do tape at home to supplement the tape you do in school. Even put German on you iPod or whatever and listen a bit once a week for 10 mins and it will benefit you greatly in the long run.

    Irish
    Tough one this, because you get people who have excellent Irish coming out with B1s and A2s as they failed to acknowledge the importance of the beastly paper II. It’s just 30% of the exam, but it’s usually the one that stops people from getting As. I know its boring nd a terrible paper, but just put your head down and do it. As with any other language, start on the oral early and do ape ypurself. Go to tg4.ie ad watch aifric or anything else as gaeilge that takes your fancy. Do this regularly. For the aiste, it’s sad but you have to learn off phases and stuff and basically stuff them down the examiner’s throat. Do all the comprehensions in the exam papers and constantly build your vocabulary.

    Need any help give me a PM and I’ll be happy to give a few pointers :)


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    #31
    Lawliet
    Registered Users Posts: 2,761 ✭✭✭Lawliet


    TheCandystripes wrote: »
    Disagree with that if I'm honest. I know a few that repeated and both went up by a good bit. I gues it depends where your coming from, the higher you get the harder it is to go up but the people i know went up by a good 150 points. like if u get 300 points lets say and repeat u could definitely get for 450 no hassle.
    I think if you put in your best effort first time round, then the probability of going up a huge amount of points, isn't great.
    But for people who missed a lot of school due to illness, or simply dossed and did nothing all year, then there's a good possibility they will bring up their points a good bit this time round...provided they work of course.


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