Too stupid to get married or have a baby

Doc · 21-10-2009 04:36AM #1

A council in Scotland have told a woman she’s too stupid to get married or have a baby.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/scotland/6365363/Social-services-to-take-baby-from-teenager-deemed-too-stupid-to-marry.html

Last month Miss Robertson was prevented from marrying her fiancé Mark McDougall, 25, after council officials claimed that she “did not understand the implications of getting married”.

She has now been warned that she will only be allowed a few hours with her baby, which is due in January, before it is taken into foster care.

I know some Irish people who I think should be told this but God I never actualy thought that anyone would!

Edit: found another one -> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/5417283/Social-services-in-Nottingham-claim-mother-is-too-stupid-to-bring-up-child.html

seanybiker · 21-10-2009 04:39AM

jaysus thats a bit mental alright. Surely at 25 she should be allowed get married if she wants.

TestTransmission · 21-10-2009 04:40AM

seanybiker wrote: »

jaysus thats a bit mental alright. Surely at 25 she should be allowed get married if she wants.

She's only 17,her fella is 25

Mahatma coat · 21-10-2009 04:46AM

could this happen in I reland?

isnt there some part of the constitution that enshrines the right of the family?

and more importantly

HOW THE FVCK ARE PEOPLE LETTING THEM GET AWAY WITH THIS.

seanybiker · 21-10-2009 04:46AM

ah well thats different then. I didnt go to link I only read the quote in post

brendansmith · 21-10-2009 04:49AM

seanybiker wrote: »

ah well thats different then. I didnt go to link I only read the quote in post

Yeah, i never bothered following the link either. Just read the quote. Good quote though.

[Jackass] · 21-10-2009 04:50AM

While I think this is brilliant and ground breaking and wish there was some sort of vetting system or exam people should take here to be allowed raise children / claim welfare for having them, she clearly is simple. Why doesn't she just go to another borough or even down to England or Ireland where we have no such requirements for marriage as long as you are the legal age, but a marriage in Ireland / England is recognised in Scottish law...then the pops can take full custody of the child.

But don't tell them, it's probably for the best.

Jesus Wept · 21-10-2009 05:07AM

They should confiscate her vagina.

Overheal · 21-10-2009 05:15AM

Only in Amer- oh wait...

brendansmith · 21-10-2009 05:23AM

Overheal wrote: »

Only in Amer- oh wait...

You are off the hook this once dude.

me_right_one · 21-10-2009 06:20AM

Mahatma coat wrote: »

could this happen in I reland?

isnt there some part of the constitution that enshrines the right of the family?

and more importantly

HOW THE FVCK ARE PEOPLE LETTING THEM GET AWAY WITH THIS.

You're thinking backwards man. It's about time this happened

Kernel · 21-10-2009 06:45AM

[Jackass] wrote: »

While I think this is brilliant and ground breaking and wish there was some sort of vetting system or exam people should take here to be allowed raise children / claim welfare for having them,

How can you control who has children without mass sterilisation or forced contraceptives? Nightmare to implement. As for child welfare, why should the child in the equation suffer poverty because of having scum parents? It's a difficult problem, social engineering.

REXER · 21-10-2009 07:33AM

Great, an Irish solution to a Scotish problem.

Forced removal and adoption of the child.:(:(
This when the extended family are willing to take resposibility.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 21-10-2009 09:02AM

Overheal wrote: »

Only in Amer- oh wait...

You say that way too much, I am afraid it has lost it's "mojo"?

Well, she might be stupid, but still... you don't need to be smart to look after a kid. If a thicko can do a good job, then why not? There are more doctors, lawyers and scientists out there that wouldn't know one end of a baby from the other. Since when is intelligence a factor in having a child?

The authorities are scum... pur scum.

Cool Mo D · 21-10-2009 09:36AM

[Jackass] wrote: »

While I think this is brilliant and ground breaking and wish there was some sort of vetting system or exam people should take here to be allowed raise children / claim welfare for having them, she clearly is simple. Why doesn't she just go to another borough or even down to England or Ireland where we have no such requirements for marriage as long as you are the legal age, but a marriage in Ireland / England is recognised in Scottish law...then the pops can take full custody of the child.

But don't tell them, it's probably for the best.

That's funny, I think I recall a large programme supported by the state to take away 'unfit mothers' children. Seem to remember some sort of controversy about it - something to do with cleaning clothes? Was it such a great idea?

biko · 21-10-2009 10:30AM

Or she can do a "Theresa Winters" and keep getting preggers until they let her keep one.
Up to 14 kids now, prev 13 in care.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/columnists/mcintosh/2009/08/02/let-s-put-a-stop-to-this-baby-factory-115875-21563999/

Procasinator · 21-10-2009 10:51AM

It says she has "mild" learning difficulties... is "mild" learning difficulties enough to take away a child?

Although, I still don't see why they don't go elsewhere to wed as [Jackass] suggested. At least then the father can get custody.

caseyann · 21-10-2009 10:55AM

So before she has even given birth because she has learning difficulties,they have made a judgment on her ability to rear a child because she isn't intelligent enough:rolleyes:.She would have been married to the father of the baby and they are removing the child from her and the father

That is stupid she hasnt even been seen with the child:(

In answer to the question to people saying sterilize and take more kids from people who aren't fit.The problem with that is they go after majority of times people who are fit parents and leave the unfit alone.

Only if a child is under threat not fed out running the streets and been left alone or abused physically hse should not be allowed to intervene.

You are not smart enough you aren't allowed to have kids.Plenty of intelligent people i know who shouldn't be parents :rolleyes:

wyndham · 21-10-2009 11:02AM

I have investigated and she is not hot:

http://hurricanevanessa.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/article-1212867-0664297d000005dc-941_468x520.jpg

/thread.

caseyann · 21-10-2009 11:07AM

wyndham wrote: »

I have investigated and she is not hot:

http://hurricanevanessa.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/article-1212867-0664297d000005dc-941_468x520.jpg

/thread.

So now not hot and unintelligent people shouldn't be allowed get married or have kids :rolleyes:

shoegirl · 21-10-2009 11:19AM

Kernel wrote: »

How can you control who has children without mass sterilisation or forced contraceptives? Nightmare to implement. As for child welfare, why should the child in the equation suffer poverty because of having scum parents? It's a difficult problem, social engineering.

You could make receipt of certain welfare benefits conditional on long term contraceptive use (like Norplant II which lasts up until 5 years and is implanted in the arm so there is little opportunity for human error in taking it) in certain circumstances. I'd certainly suggest that lone parents who want to remain on welfare in the long term be sterilised or implanted with Norplant every 4 years as long as they remain on welfare after they've had 2 children.

Up to 2 children on welfare doesn't cost all that much to the state (about 500,000 for the first child, but not that much for the 2nd) though. The costs are largely related to housing. If that could be heavily reduced actually the cost of paying lone parents is quite small relative to the enormous subventions paid to farmers and the banking and NAMA bailouts.

shoegirl · 21-10-2009 11:21AM

Cool Mo D wrote: »

That's funny, I think I recall a large programme supported by the state to take away 'unfit mothers' children. Seem to remember some sort of controversy about it - something to do with cleaning clothes? Was it such a great idea?

They were not "unfit mothers." They were ANY woman considered to be a bit "dangerous" (to their families "pride" or Irish societal "purity"). I know of a case where a woman in rural Cork was placed in a laundry simply because she started practising and teaching yoga.

Long Onion · 21-10-2009 11:31AM

Problem is easily solved if you ask me, have an older family member go guarantor (preferably mammy or daddy), if the kid turns into a looney, make the guarantor deal with it.

No guarantor, no babby, no welfare.

Oh yeah, ban Burberry too.

cruizer101 · 21-10-2009 11:44AM

caseyann wrote: »

So now not hot and unintelligent people shouldn't be allowed get married or have kids :rolleyes:

Funny enough this is the way it worked for thousands of years, human are the first species to really mess with good old natural selection meaning we have kinda stopped evoling.

But anyway, ridiculous, they should definitly let her keep the kid some of the most caring people around are crap at traditionally academic subjects, give the couple a chance.

Gran Hermano · 21-10-2009 11:45AM

They could at least give her a job in a laundry as well as taking the baby off her.

stovelid · 21-10-2009 11:52AM

Doc wrote: »

Too stupid to get married or have a baby

There is something clearly wrong about this hypothesis...

Evidence A

Evidence B

wudangclan · 21-10-2009 11:54AM

this is absolutely disgraceful.
how can they take a womans' baby without seeing first if she is capable of caring for the baby?
the report says she 'has mild learning disabilities',it doesn't sound like she is completely incapable.unless there is another underlying story i don't see how the state could be permitted to take such action.

marco_polo · 21-10-2009 11:57AM

It is disturbing the number of people who think that this sort of thing positive development in society.

Here is the other case from Nottingham mentioned in that article. While of course there are times when it is nescessary to take a child into care, because the council says so is not one of them.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/5417283/Social-services-in-Nottingham-claim-mother-is-too-stupid-to-bring-up-child.html

Miss Pullen's attempts to fight the council have been hampered after her case was taken over by a Government funded solicitor who declined to contest the adoption application despite his client's wishes.

..........

John Hemming, Liberal Democrat MP for Birmingham Yardley, who is campaigning on Rachel's behalf, said: "We have got experts saying she hasn't got learning difficulties and is quite capable of looking after a child. They are really abusing her."

General Zod · 21-10-2009 11:57AM

For the people who haven't read the article

Under Scottish law, a registrar may refuse to marry a couple if they believe one or both the parties lack the mental capacity to understand what the institution of marriage is about.

In a highly unusual step, Dunfermline Register Office refused to sanction the marriage after Fife council wrote a letter of objection. Miss Robertson was brought up by her grandmother from the age of nine months because her parents were unable to look after her and her welfare has since been overseen by the council’s social workers.

So. The Council workers who have been supervising her upbringing since she was 9 years old don't believe she is mentally prepared or in a proper environment to raise a child.

I'll take their word over the Telegraph or a 25 year old artist who picks up 17 year olds with "learning dificulties".

marco_polo · 21-10-2009 12:08PM

General Zod wrote: »

For the people who haven't read the article

So. The Council workers who have been supervising her upbringing since she was 9 years old don't believe she is mentally prepared or in a proper environment to raise a child.

I'll take their word over the Telegraph or a 25 year old artist who picks up 17 year olds with "learning dificulties".

While we do not know the full fact of the case, the burden of proof needs to be far higher the councils social word that she is unfit.

Would you be in favour of banning of dyslexic people from having kids for example?

Long Onion · 21-10-2009 12:14PM

marco_polo wrote: »

Would you be in favour of banning of dyslexic people from having kids for example?

They shouldn't be driving in icy conditions in the first place.

Too stupid to get married or have a baby

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