Smart Meters and the ESB

drunken_munky52 · 14-06-2009 11:39PM

Smart metering is also the start of the the electricity internet. Just like the internet, electricity "routers" will ensure that unpredictable renewable power does no mean the lights go off when the wind stops blowing, becuase electronics will "route" power from other sources on the network.

janeha · 16-06-2009 11:07AM

Hopefully we will all see new tariffs that will encourage us to use electricity at off peak times.
This move to smart metering should mean that the ESB (and all the other generating companies) can build fewer power stations and use the existing ones more efficiently. In that way we all pay less!

My concern is that the transformation of the ESB distribution network into a massive IT/Computer/Communications network with over a million "smart" nodes will be hugely expensive and problematic.

bigtam · 19-06-2009 11:35AM

Was reading this yesterday:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/jun/17/immersion-heater-renewable-energy

dhaslam refered to the need for customer storage capacity in this thread some time ago but I cannot help wondering if the ESB smart meters will have this capacity. Regulating supply and demand of electricity is one of the major obstacles to significant renewables expansion. Options are still emerging and smart metering is one of a range of tools.

Does anybody know if the smart meters being installed will be able to control hot water storage (or indeed any other customer storage capacity). It would be a real shame (and a little expensive) if they all need replacing in a few years time

Heroditas · 23-06-2009 04:00PM

bigtam wrote: »

Does anybody know if the smart meters being installed will be able to control hot water storage (or indeed any other customer storage capacity). It would be a real shame (and a little expensive) if they all need replacing in a few years time

No they won't be able to do that.
They're simply digital meters that can record incoming and also outgoing electricity flow.

iasdiess · 28-09-2009 11:00AM

Heroditas wrote: »

No they won't be able to do that.
They're simply digital meters that can record incoming and also outgoing electricity flow.

Well this might not be the case in the first pilot implementation but that is certainly on the requirement list in the most advanced initiatives:
- load limitation (if you dont pay)
- Home Automation applications (home devices connected to the home hub/and-or intelligent meter) can be managed (load management, programming, imagine you are in your car, you can switch the oven before arriving home... ;-o)
- Demand Response programs: utilities controlling through either price signals (sent to the meter, so the meter based on set up will optimise your load), or through direct command (for instance boilers, or in the US air conditionning) the load of the customers

So watch out -- it's coming... :pac:

kilomike31 · 07-10-2009 02:52PM

If you want to see where and when you are using electricity you could get a wireless energy meter. It has a little clip-on gadget that goes around one of the wires coming into your house. This then transmits a wireless signal to a 'meter' that shows you immediately what power you are using. The meter also converts the usage to money (if you give it the current unit price) and gives historical totals by week, month etc.

One of these sitting in a prominent place in your house makes the whole family take energy saving seriously and people have reported saving up to 20% on electricity bills. It was on one of the Duncan Stewart TV programmes last year (About the House ?) and people were getting these kinds of savings.

You can order one of these meters at www.energymeter.ie for €49.99.

Heroditas · 11-10-2009 06:45PM

In Home Displays are also being trialled in the smart meter trial. If/when the national roll-out is complete, there won't be much of a market for those clip-on meters. However, in the meantime, they're excellent. The only downside being the replacing of batteries every so on.

Regarding the smart meter pilot, a document has been published on the CER website outlining the shadow tariffs to be used for the customer behaviour trial. http://www.cer.ie/en/information-centre-reports-and-publications.aspx?article=c03aebf5-8048-456c-ba8b-33a79319a818

I'm divided ove rthe proposed shadow charges. On one hand, they're not too high for the peak time and that is a good thing but on the other hand, if they're not overly harsh, what hope do they have of changing behaviour, particularly between the 5pm and 7pm time period?
It all boils down to how people actually view their energy costs as a % of their total outgoings. It'll be hard to convince a family with 4 kids who spend a couple of hundred euro a week that it is vitally important they save a couple of euro on their electricity bill. It's all about perceived priorities.

kilomike31 · 12-10-2009 11:45AM

Heroditas wrote: »

In Home Displays are also being trialled in the smart meter trial. If/when the national roll-out is complete, there won't be much of a market for those clip-on meters. However, in the meantime, they're excellent. The only downside being the replacing of batteries every so on.

Do you have any more details of these 'in-home' displays ? Is it a plug in unit that communicates over the mains circuit with the smart meter ?

Thanks.

Heroditas · 12-10-2009 08:30PM

kilomike31 wrote: »

Do you have any more details of these 'in-home' displays ? Is it a plug in unit that communicates over the mains circuit with the smart meter ?

Thanks.

That's the plan anyway. I've only seen the conceptual mock-ups of them. Elster were still developing working models for the ESB the last time I heard. I'll have a sniff around and see if there's any more updates though.

quentingargan · 13-10-2009 11:46AM

kilomike31 wrote: »

Do you have any more details of these 'in-home' displays ? Is it a plug in unit that communicates over the mains circuit with the smart meter ?

Thanks.

If you want a display like this, they are availble online from a number of outlets. I have one and it certainly throws up interesting information and can help to change habits.

kilomike31 · 14-10-2009 11:27AM

Heroditas wrote: »

That's the plan anyway. I've only seen the conceptual mock-ups of them. Elster were still developing working models for the ESB the last time I heard. I'll have a sniff around and see if there's any more updates though.

Ok, thanks for the information. I you get any update could you post it here please ?

Thanks

sparcocars · 03-12-2009 10:05AM

kilomike31 wrote: »

Do you have any more details of these 'in-home' displays ? Is it a plug in unit that communicates over the mains circuit with the smart meter ?

Thanks.

The in house display will communicate wirelessly with the smart meter. The modems on the smart meters in the pilot project are currently being changed to facilitate this. They can also communicate with the esb for readings so no meter reader will need to go around to the unless the comms are malfunctioning. I work for the ESB and fit these meters so thats how i know.

mchammer · 18-02-2010 01:00PM

apologies as this may have been answered somewhere - but how do I know if my esb meter is capable of accepting an electricity output from an appropriate inverter? i.e. if i produce electricity and output via an inverter can I just wire in the output of the inverter to the meter and wind the clock back (legitimately)?
Also, My house was added to grid last Jan 09 and is a dual tariff digital meter.

quentingargan · 18-02-2010 02:20PM

mchammer wrote: »

apologies as this may have been answered somewhere - but how do I know if my esb meter is capable of accepting an electricity output from an appropriate inverter? i.e. if i produce electricity and output via an inverter can I just wire in the output of the inverter to the meter and wind the clock back (legitimately)?
Also, My house was added to grid last Jan 09 and is a dual tariff digital meter.

The procedure is a bit different to this I'm afraid. If you are plannning to export electricity to the grid, you apply to the ESB using form NC6. After two weeks, you are free to go ahead with your install, but it won't send the meter backwards, unless it is a very old one - they put a ratchet on that...

After your spark has signed off on the installation, ESB will then change your meter.

kilomike31 · 18-02-2010 11:27PM

Thanks for the detailed information. Also, if you need to measure and record electricity usage in a more detailed way (especially if, like most people, you don't have an ESB smart meter) you can take a look at the wireless electricity meter here .

A friend of mine has a wind turbine and finally started seeing 'credit' on his ESB bill a few months ago. If you're in a suitable location, and many people of course aren't, there is almost constant wind energy available in Ireland !

Smart Meters and the ESB

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