Taxi driver protest

MOH · 02-10-2009 01:40PM

Hamndegger wrote: »

As of June 2009, Ireland has 47, 529 and the population of Ireland according to the 2006 census is 4,239,848.

As of June 2009, Dublin has just over 13000, including taxis, hackneys and limos.
New York has over 100000 active driver licenses.

Jumpy · 02-10-2009 01:42PM

Hamndegger wrote: »

As of June 2009, Ireland has 47, 529 and the population of Ireland according to the 2006 census is 4,239,848.

So fcukin what?

If they are not making enough money, then quit and find something that does. This is how unskilled labour finds a balance.

sliabh · 02-10-2009 01:45PM

positron wrote: »

Sorry, I might have missed some posts, but does anyone know what are these illegally parked taxi drivers who disrespect everyone else, are demanding?

+1 to this. A far more important question than taxi ratios in New York, or who can come up with the most inventive way of punishing them for protesting (can we ask the US if they are still taking admissions in Guantanamo?)

WIZE · 02-10-2009 01:45PM

they should take the old Bangers off the Road to thin out the amount of Taxi's

beeno67 · 02-10-2009 01:50PM

Jumpy wrote: »

So fcukin what?

If they are not making enough money, then quit and find something that does. This is how unskilled labour finds a balance.

I agree here. Isn't it time the taxi regulator began slashing fares.

Ham'nd'egger · 02-10-2009 02:33PM

MOH wrote: »

As of June 2009, Dublin has just over 13000, including taxis, hackneys and limos.
New York has over 100000 active driver licenses.

No, that figure are taxi plates registered to people with addresses in Dublin. This doesn't take into account taxi plates registered to people with addresses outside of Dublin who operate their taxi in Dublin; you could probably add at least another 1,500 to this amount.

Ham'nd'egger · 02-10-2009 02:37PM

Jumpy wrote: »

So fcukin what?

If they are not making enough money, then quit and find something that does. This is how unskilled labour finds a balance.

How silly of me for pointing out an over supply in a market in relation to population has no bearing in an debate that has over supply and an appalling ease of market entry for new supplier as key points.

adrian522 · 02-10-2009 02:49PM

Yeah, it seems to me its the basics of supply and demand you don't understand. In a free market anyone who thinks they can make money is free to enter the market, this results in competition.

It seems many would like to go back to the 80's and 90's when people would have to Queue for several hours in the rain to get a taxi.

As with any other business there should be no restriction on the amount of operators.

Should we start closing down every Spar and Centra just so newsagents can earn x amount of €€€??

Should ALdi and Lidl be forced to Close because Dunnes are struggling?

Perhaps Bank of Scotland should be kicked out because AIB and BOI are not turning a profit?

Jip · 02-10-2009 02:51PM

Anyone listening to Joe Duffy ? Did you ever hear a bigger bunch on whingers in the world ? Everyones to blame but themselves, one guy, when the question was put to him was asked why don't they lower their fares as a protest against the regulator rather than do what they're doing, he couldn't answer directly but it's basically because he's afraid to do that.

So there you have it, a bunch of hard men, who claim there's no intimidation going on despite several people who were at the end of it phoning in, are willing to piss of the public but are afraid of the regulator.

By the way, it's all ok, the recession is only affecting taxi drivers.

Mitch Connor · 02-10-2009 02:51PM

adrian522 wrote: »

Yeah, it seems to me its the basics of supply and demand you don't understand. In a free market anyone who thinks they can make money is free to enter the market, this results in competition.

It seems many would like to go back to the 80's and 90's when people would have to Queue for several hours in the rain to get a taxi.

As with any other business there should be no restriction on the amount of operators.

Should we start closing down every Spar and Centra just so newsagents can earn x amount of €€€??

Should ALdi and Lidl be forced to Close because Dunnes are struggling?

Perhaps Bank of Scotland should be kicked out because AIB and BOI are not turning a profit?

isn't there a limit on pub licences?

adrian522 · 02-10-2009 02:52PM

There is.

ArmaniJeanss · 02-10-2009 02:53PM

Hamndegger wrote: »

How silly of me for pointing out an over supply in a market in relation to population has no bearing in an debate that has over supply and an appalling ease of market entry for new supplier as key points.

Having more taxis than New York doesn't prove oversupply though, it could indciate lots of things (perhaps thats NYC is a smaller area by size, perhaps that sharing of taxis between drivers is higher, maybe that private limo usage is high etc etc).

But taxi drivers trot out the line 'more taxis than New York' then sit back smugly as if its the debating point that ends all debates.

thebman · 02-10-2009 02:55PM

Ignoring the idiotic (IMO) calls for limiting taxi numbers and not allowing supply/demand to control the market, I think the regulator does need to wake up in the taxi industry.

If the regulator is simply going to say, there are no rules then why have a regulator? We need standards in the taxi industry and they are sorely lacking ATM. I think a series of tests should be introduced that attributes a colour a taxi should be which should indicate a couple of things about the taxi including the condition of the car at time of test, the drivers knowledge of the area they intend to operate in. Also price should be displayed on outside of taxi allowing different taxis to charge different rates so people can choose their taxi based on price before they get in. All this nonsense at ranks must be stopped with CCTV monitoring and if people are hassled for not taking car at front of rank then the taxi driver involved should have his license revoked.

Also should be minimum standards for above and all taxis should have to carry a sat nav system because nobody knows where every place is regardless of their claims otherwise. Background checks should be done on drivers for criminal records before issuing a license if not already done and more needs to be done at the ranks to encourage competition on price.

Jip · 02-10-2009 02:56PM

And there's another guy on almost crying because 'Vinny' left them, Why did you leave us Vinny, why Vinny, whhhhhhhhhhhyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy !!!!!!!

thebman · 02-10-2009 02:58PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

isn't there a limit on pub licences?

Are you saying people support the limit on pubs or their operating hours or off-license operating hours?

I sure as hell don't.

Ham'nd'egger · 02-10-2009 03:02PM

adrian522 wrote: »

There is.

And can you start up a Spar shop by doing a 45 minute test and run the your family car? Or do you need several hundred thousand euro to pay for weeks of fitting a shop with fridges and deli counters (After you pay up more money on rent, deposits, rates, planning permissions, food handling courses, franchises, staff, etc etc

Point being; while I can freely set up a shop/cafe in theory the reality is that need a hell of a lot of capital, paperwork and a premises; it's shockingly easy to become a taxi driver hence the amount of people flooding into the market on the lure of many pots of gold that plain is not there.

Calina · 02-10-2009 03:05PM

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Its actually 12504, you have to add in the number of wheelchair taxis also as they operate in the same way.

Dublin Taxis-12504 Population- 1.2m??

New York Taxis 13087 Population 12m ??

There is a huge difference here obviously.

Now please also compare available public transport options while you're at it because the taxi supply side does not exist in isolation from other transport options in either city. I'd also note that Dublin has a higher population density than New York does - it's about 50% in Dublin than NYC according to these figures here.

Assuming that you can do a bald comparison based just on the number of taxis alone is misleading. There are other factors at play.

thebman · 02-10-2009 03:06PM

Hamndegger wrote: »

And can you start up a Spar shop by doing a 45 minute test and run the your family car? Or do you need several hundred thousand euro to pay for weeks of fitting a shop with fridges and deli counters (After you pay up more money on rent, deposits, rates, planning permissions, food handling courses, franchises, staff, etc etc

Point being; while I can freely set up a shop/cafe in theory the reality is that need a hell of a lot of capital, paperwork and a premises; it's shockingly easy to become a taxi driver hence the amount of people flooding into the market on the lure of many pots of gold that plain is not there.

This is where standards that I'm putting forward come in. Capping numbers is stupid and doesn't stop the family car problem. Having proper standards for what a taxi should be would ensure people would need to invest in their taxis.

Of course some taxi drivers just don't want that either as then they'll have to invest and they too only got into the industry because there was little initial investment I suppose.

adrian522 · 02-10-2009 03:06PM

I still don't see your point. Are you saying it should cost more to turn a car into a taxi? Maybe you should spell out exactly what you would like to see changed?

DonJose · 02-10-2009 03:12PM

Why doesn't Ireland copy the German taxi system, I lived there 10 years and the taxi drivers were professional taxi drivers. Spotless cars and spotless drivers. The German taxiswere painted one colour and were of a certain size. Heres what I would suggest.

1 - Taxis must not be older than 7 years.
2 - Taxis must be off a certain size and class, nothing smaller than a Ford Mondeo type car.
3 - Taxis must be painted one colour, bright yellow, so the vehicle cannot be used for personal use.
4 - Code of dress and hygiene.

Ham'nd'egger · 02-10-2009 03:15PM

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Having more taxis than New York doesn't prove oversupply though, it could indciate lots of things (perhaps thats NYC is a smaller area by size, perhaps that sharing of taxis between drivers is higher, maybe that private limo usage is high etc etc).

But taxi drivers trot out the line 'more taxis than New York' then sit back smugly as if its the debating point that ends all debates.

But it shows the massive anomaly of the current supply to the market place as it stands notwithstanding limos or other transport usage. If you go to population density as a better marker of urban density, Dublin has 11,391 people per square mile living over 44 square miles while New York as 27,440 living on 304 square miles so no matter what way you look at it, there are less taxis for less people here, period.

I should note that I took these figures from Wikipedia; only seen Calina's point.

Mitch Connor · 02-10-2009 03:16PM

thebman wrote: »

Are you saying people support the limit on pubs or their operating hours or off-license operating hours?

I sure as hell don't.

Firstly, the opening times are an issue of trying to curtail drunk and anti social behavior, as well as the drinking culture. I don't think they are relevent to the situation or argument.

With regards to the limit on pubs, I'm not saying that people support the limit (i don't know whether they do or not, I have never thought about it to be honest). I am simply pointing out that the pub industry is an industry where you need a licence to operate and there is a limit on the licences given by the government - the current pubs are (somewhat) protected from exponentially increasing competitors, as the taxi industry wants it to be. People are saying Tesco or Superquinn don't get that type of protection, I am simply pointing out that pubs do.

thebman · 02-10-2009 03:21PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Firstly, the opening times are an issue of trying to curtail drunk and anti social behavior, as well as the drinking culture. I don't think they are relevent to the situation or argument.

Would argue it increases anti-social behavior. Would also argue it actually favors taxi drivers since they know what time most people will be on the street looking for a taxi so I'm sure taxi drivers won't object to the closing times.

With regards to the limit on pubs, I'm not saying that people support the limit (i don't know whether they do or not, I have never thought about it to be honest). I am simply pointing out that the pub industry is an industry where you need a licence to operate and there is a limit on the licences given by the government - the current pubs are (somewhat) protected from exponentially increasing competitors, as the taxi industry wants it to be. People are saying Tesco or Superquinn don't get that type of protection, I am simply pointing out that pubs do.

I'm guessing the logic to the limit on pub licenses is they are selling a drug which is why they need a license in the first place unlike a spar. Its not really a fair comparison IMO as when your talking about alcohol, a drug, you have fringe groups that think it just should not be allowed which have to be appeased and I'm sure the limit on number of pubs helps to shut them up.

Not many people object to taxis or people getting from a to b. Taxis are much less controversial.

positron · 02-10-2009 03:23PM

Pubs also has to put up with strict regulations, standards and safety norms. If the taxi industry were to get any sort of cap, I would protest if that does not come with a whole load of regulations like in Germany.

roy123456789 · 02-10-2009 03:24PM

Name one other industry/business that is actively signing up new recruits on either a full or part time basis (your choice) into a dwindling marketplace where the existing participants are experiencing drastic cuts in income: over 50% over the past few years?
There was a protest which blocked Dawson street recently, by Communities Against Cuts, did that not effect trade and inconvenience people?
There's a protest planned by the civil service for the 28th of Oct, because of a proposed cut (probably a measly couple of points) ...will that not cause inconvenience?
Yet another major protest planned on Nov 5th, same question
we better get used to them!
Taxi drivers have a right to protest, i'm sure there is no will to inconvenience anybody but experience shows this government don't listen to reason ....they just react to pressure/crisis
there is a general dislike of Taxi drivers until such time as they bring you home pissed and incoherent on Saturday morning, then for 15 minutes they're your best friend

Ham'nd'egger · 02-10-2009 03:25PM

thebman wrote: »

This is where standards that I'm putting forward come in. Capping numbers is stupid and doesn't stop the family car problem. Having proper standards for what a taxi should be would ensure people would need to invest in their taxis.

Of course some taxi drivers just don't want that either as then they'll have to invest and they too only got into the industry because there was little initial investment I suppose.

Drivers are (generally, let it be said) supporting raising the bar in standards both in cars and drivers.

In many countries, there is help/tax grants to purchase decent cars for the job but what is needed in Ireland is a complete restructuring of the industry and it is needed fast to benefit drivers and allow them make a living and afford some protection and security in trade (Remember, we are running the service under not one but two Public Licences in the Taxi Plate and PSV Licence and are entitled to some level of State help and co-operation) and passengers alike who are entitled to comfortable cars and drivers who are pleasant and competent in the duties.

Arathorn · 02-10-2009 03:27PM

I see PSNI locked the thread about this in the Emergency Services Forum, getting too many difficult questions I think

Seriously the drivers should have at least been issued fines, very disappointed in the way the guards handled this.

MOH · 02-10-2009 03:33PM

Hamndegger wrote: »

And can you start up a Spar shop by doing a 45 minute test and run the your family car? Or do you need several hundred thousand euro to pay for weeks of fitting a shop with fridges and deli counters (After you pay up more money on rent, deposits, rates, planning permissions, food handling courses, franchises, staff, etc etc

Point being; while I can freely set up a shop/cafe in theory the reality is that need a hell of a lot of capital, paperwork and a premises; it's shockingly easy to become a taxi driver hence the amount of people flooding into the market on the lure of many pots of gold that plain is not there.

Wait, wasn't somebody just giving out earlier on about the cost of taxi licences going up? And there's regular complaints about the other assocaiated charges

Mitch Connor · 02-10-2009 03:33PM

roy123456789 wrote: »

Name one other industry/business that is actively signing up new recruits on either a full or part time basis (your choice) into a dwindling marketplace where the existing participants are experiencing drastic cuts in income: over 50% over the past few years?
There was a protest which blocked Dawson street recently, by Communities Against Cuts, did that not effect trade and inconvenience people?
There's a protest planned by the civil service for the 28th of Oct, because of a proposed cut (probably a measly couple of points) ...will that not cause inconvenience?
Yet another major protest planned on Nov 5th, same question
we better get used to them!
Taxi drivers have a right to protest, i'm sure there is no will to inconvenience anybody but experience shows this government don't listen to reason ....they just react to pressure/crisis
there is a general dislike of Taxi drivers until such time as they bring you home pissed and incoherent on Saturday morning, then for 15 minutes they're your best friend

The protests you are talking about are planned and advertised and legally given the ok. People are inconvenienced but they know before hand that they will be and have the chance to make appropriate alternate arrangements.

The taxi drivers protest was not given legal clearance, there was no warning and no chance for people who would be affected by the massive disruption to city centre traffic to make any sort of alternate arrangements.

There is a difference between a legal and planned protest, and what the taxi drivers have done.

KoolKid · 02-10-2009 03:41PM

roy123456789 wrote: »

Name one other industry/business that is actively signing up new recruits on either a full or part time basis (your choice) into a dwindling marketplace where the existing participants are experiencing drastic cuts in income: over 50% over the past few years?

I didn't know the industry was signing up drivers. I thought it was the drivers choice . You guys just dont get it do you??
Your self employed business men. So first off striking when you are self employed does not make good business sense. (In fact it doesn't make sense at all) As it is your business it is your fault if you dont make a profit. No body elses. The country is in a recession. Business are losing money everywhere. Companies are going out of business every day.
Do you hear them on the radio crying blaming everyone else?? NO. Do you see shop keepers crying everytime a new Centra or Spar opens down the road? NO

There was a protest which blocked Dawson street recently, by Communities Against Cuts, did that not effect trade and inconvenience people?

Probobly, but people arn't pi**ed off with them crying about every little thing.

roy123456789 wrote: »

Taxi drivers have a right to protest, i'm sure there is no will to inconvenience anybody but experience shows this government don't listen to reason ....they just react to pressure/crisis
there is a general dislike of Taxi drivers until such time as they bring you home pissed and incoherent on Saturday morning, then for 15 minutes they're your best friend

You have the right to protest. You do not have the right to break the Law!!!
Ofcourse there is a will to inconvenience stop talking rubbish.
If you dont want to inconvenience anyone why choose O Connell Street?
There is a general dislike of Taxi Drivers because ye never stop whinging. Even during the good times ye still cried about every little thing.
Bring someone home on a Saturday night wont change that. Thats your job & we pay you bloody well to do it. We shouldn't have to listen to you crying for the whole trip .
PS its nice to know what contempt you have for those customers who pay your wages.
{End of rant}

Taxi driver protest

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