Marathon crisis of confidence

digger2d2 · 18-09-2009 07:55AM #1

Hi All,

Having been involved in sport all my life I've had a pretty decent residual fitness until 2 years ago where I decided to sit on my backside for my 40th birthday and continued to do so for about a year!! Anyway, took up running about 6/7 months ago and have done a 5k race and the 5 and 10 mile of the Adidas series (and will be doing the half next week)...Wasn't sure if I'd be able for the marathon but built things up quite well, midweek 7.5 k x 3 times a week with weekend runs increasing in distance...16k, 18k, and 22k a few weeks ago....Then I picked up a cold and didn't run for a week....Had a short run last Friday and then tried a 27k on Saturday and had to stop with about 7k to go.....My legs were wrecked...Hamstrings very tight etc. Even walking was tough! That said, two days later I ran my fastest 7.5k to date....Now, and here's the thing that I need most advice on...We are 6 weeks away from the Marathon and the longest I've run successfully is pretty much 13 miles and with the required 'tapering' for the half and then the marathon I'm worried that I won't get near doing a 20 mile training run and that I'll struggle physically and mentally based on the stuff I'm reading on boards....Any suggestions/advice?

Thanks,

digger2d2

tunney · 18-09-2009 08:00AM

digger2d2 wrote: »

Hi All,

Having been involved in sport all my life I've had a pretty decent residual fitness until 2 years ago where I decided to sit on my backside for my 40th birthday and continued to do so for about a year!! Anyway, took up running about 6/7 months ago and have done a 5k race and the 5 and 10 mile of the Adidas series (and will be doing the half next week)...Wasn't sure if I'd be able for the marathon but built things up quite well, midweek 7.5 k x 3 times a week with weekend runs increasing in distance...16k, 18k, and 22k a few weeks ago....Then I picked up a cold and didn't run for a week....Had a short run last Friday and then tried a 27k on Saturday and had to stop with about 7k to go.....My legs were wrecked...Hamstrings very tight etc. Even walking was tough! That said, two days later I ran my fastest 7.5k to date....Now, and here's the thing that I need most advice on...We are 6 weeks away from the Marathon and the longest I've run successfully is pretty much 13 miles and with the required 'tapering' for the half and then the marathon I'm worried that I won't get near doing a 20 mile training run and that I'll struggle physically and mentally based on the stuff I'm reading on boards....Any suggestions/advice?

Thanks,

digger2d2

Skip the half and continue with your marathon training?

buck65 · 18-09-2009 08:11AM

or tack on a few miles to the half - 1 mile warm up - 1 mile cool down and you're over 15 miles!
I wouldn't fret too much you still have 6 weeks so even a 2 week taper may be ok if you need to get an extra long run in.
20th sept 15 miles
26th sept 17 miles
3rd october 18/20 miles
10th october 15 miles something like that would get you there maybe?
You have the fitness - re your PB over 7.5k- just get in a few long runs and do it! I am in the same boat as you actually.

misty floyd · 18-09-2009 08:15AM

Or do the half and sign up for a marathon in the spring or sooner so long as you have time to complete a marathon training program. Prepare properly and give it a right go...more satisfying that way. The half will be a good acheivement for you regardless. Thats what I would do as packing in lots of miles when you haven't built up gradually may cause trouble. Best of luck.

Sosa · 18-09-2009 08:25AM

digger2d2 wrote: »

Then I picked up a cold and didn't run for a week....Had a short run last Friday and then tried a 27k on Saturday and had to stop with about 7k to go.....My legs were wrecked...Hamstrings very tight etc. Even walking was tough!

When you miss a weeks running like you did your supposed to build back up with around 70/80% of your weekly mileage the first week back,you did your longest run ever a couple of days after you came back,so don't be to hard on yourself,that was bound to happen.
About the marathon,i reckon you should leave it,no long run done yet,you will not enjoy the day,you'll get to 15/16 and start hurting bad...
Dublin is my first marahon also,so i am not talking from experience,but i have read alot about it and talked to plenty of experienced marathoners.
The marathon cannot be messed with,you have to prepare properly or you will suffer.
Do your half...enjoy it...get consistent running under your belt over the winter and go for a spring marathon or wait until Dublin next year.
Just my opinion.Its what i would do.

tunguska · 18-09-2009 08:54AM

digger2d2 wrote: »

Hi All,

Having been involved in sport all my life I've had a pretty decent residual fitness until 2 years ago where I decided to sit on my backside for my 40th birthday and continued to do so for about a year!! Anyway, took up running about 6/7 months ago and have done a 5k race and the 5 and 10 mile of the Adidas series (and will be doing the half next week)...Wasn't sure if I'd be able for the marathon but built things up quite well, midweek 7.5 k x 3 times a week with weekend runs increasing in distance...16k, 18k, and 22k a few weeks ago....Then I picked up a cold and didn't run for a week....Had a short run last Friday and then tried a 27k on Saturday and had to stop with about 7k to go.....My legs were wrecked...Hamstrings very tight etc. Even walking was tough! That said, two days later I ran my fastest 7.5k to date....Now, and here's the thing that I need most advice on...We are 6 weeks away from the Marathon and the longest I've run successfully is pretty much 13 miles and with the required 'tapering' for the half and then the marathon I'm worried that I won't get near doing a 20 mile training run and that I'll struggle physically and mentally based on the stuff I'm reading on boards....Any suggestions/advice?

Thanks,

digger2d2

You still have the guts of 6 weeks so dont worry, you can pull this off no problem. It'll be a hard slog but you have a baseline of fitness from a life of sport and thats worth a fair bit in this kind of situation.
In terms of the long runs Im afraid theres no easy way out of it, you'll just have to grind a few out. Dont worry about tapering for the half, the marathon is the top priority so train as usual right up until say next friday, give yourself a days rest before. This way your losses are minimal. Sunday you'll probably be a little shaky after the half so maybe knock out an easy 5 miles. But do something the day after the half, active recovery is the name of the game at this stage.
This leaves 4 weeks to get in a few long runs. I think psychologically, even if you could get one 20 miler in, your confidence will shoot up. But like I said you'll have to dig deep and grind it out. You can do it, you just gotta be a little tough on yourself. Which means no quitting until you reach the distance you set out to do. Stretch a fair bit before and after, especially after, that should take care of the hamstring issue.
But if you could get in 3 long runs of 20miles+ in between now and the week of the marathon, you'll be in good shape. Your body is a lot tougher than you think it is so you can put yourself under a bit of pressure and still avoid injury or burnout. To put things into perspective, ultra endurance runners run over 250miles/week on average. Which is about 35 miles per day. And ive read articles detailing training schedules of up to 340 miles per week. This is what the human body is capable of and this is what keeps me going when Im struggling on a long run and thinking about quitting. Be careful and look after your body in terms of nutrition and stretching but give it everything you have, like I said, your body is a lot stronger and tougher than you think it is.

Peckham · 18-09-2009 09:16AM

You're going to get so many contradictory messages.....

I'd skip the half and use this weekend to build up the long run. Adding miles to the start/end of the race isn't easy as the long run will be broken by having to stand aroud at the start of the race and at the finish. You also have to be disciplined not to race the 13.1 miles.

Go with something like this over the remaining weekends:
16/18-20/15/20/13/race

*go for minimum 18, but push on to 20 if you feel up to it

heffsarmy · 18-09-2009 09:25AM

As others have suggested its going to be hard slog, probably put you off running for life. I would knock the marathon on the head and concentrate on the half and do loads of shorter races over the winter. Then have a crack at a marathon in the new year with a proper marathon program behind you.

Condo131 · 18-09-2009 09:27AM

Hi digger,
The main thing that might catch you on the day is pace. If your training isn't up to scratch, due to illness/whatever, then you may need to cut back on your pace on the day. Even with the missed training, as long as you run within yourself on the day, finishing shouldn't be an issue.

Long runs: At this stage I would suggest to you to aim at 18 miles max. If you're only at 22k now, so 20 miles will take a hell of a lot out of you. I reckon if you can get at least 2 x 18 milers in, you should be ok. REMEMBER the long run is NOT about pace - it's about time on your feet.

(Ingrid Christianssen, former Marathon and 10k world record holder, used never go over 18 miles in training). If you do do a 20 miler, do it at least 3 weeks before the Marathon, so that you have time to recover - and make sure that you you give yourself enough of a recovery - you CAN do TOO MUCH trying to catch up on missed training - it's gone - let it go, and do your remaining training wisely.

shels4ever · 18-09-2009 09:33AM

I'd prob skip the half also but depends on you. I think its about 2 week too late this year. Would have been nice to have it in the first week of sept .

jb-ski · 18-09-2009 10:15AM

Hi, lots of good advice there for you to mull over.

From a confidence / mental struggle point of view, if you could
run with someone or in a group, it would be a big help. There are people
all over the country out doing their LSR at weekends, so shouldn’t be difficult to meet up with someone

Best of luck anyway

Oryx · 18-09-2009 12:05PM

Digger, Im in almost the same situation as you, so thank you for posting this thread.

Im doing the half next week and had planned a lsr this sunday, 15 miles, verrrrrrry slow, and planned to tack on 3 miles to the half if I have it in me. After that, Im gonna try and do two more longer runs 18, then 20, in the first two weeks of Oct. That was going to be it for me, anything more will be counter productive, I think.

And tunguska, thank you for that advice, just what I needed to hear.

kennyb3 · 18-09-2009 12:18PM

yeah in same boat myself so delighted with this thread. think if i get teh longer runs in as i want it will be all about keeping my pace slower than i initially wanted

digger2d2 · 18-09-2009 05:23PM

Hi All,

Thanks very much for all the replies/advice/encouragement....My main concern about knocking the Marathon on the head this year is that I might never do it !! I'm driving my Wife and kids crazy talking about running....on and on and on !!!.....I tried to talk with her the other day about an important 2 day course I had to do for work and she didn't hear a word I said as she switched off when I mentioned the word 'course' as she thought I was talking about the Phoenix Park again ! I have really enjoyed running this year although have had some tough times...Never realised how 'mental' it is......Although my original desire was to break 4 hours I would probably be happy to do the Marathon in sub 4 Hrs 30 so in theory won't be killing myself....All the time goals I've set myself this year have been sensible and I've beaten them all.

So, Amsterdam out.....Dublin...decisions decisions and Belfast...Will my family still allow me to run by then!?

Thanks,

Digger

rigal · 18-09-2009 05:51PM

Hi digger2d2,

I think it's very easy to get carried away and a tad obsessive about training when doing your first marathon. My first was Edinburgh in May and I had my better half driven around the bend by the time the race came.

Since then I've chilled out a lot and while I train more (doing Amsterdam next month!) I don't take it so seriously and have made a conscious effort not to talk about it a lot. I also now have a life outside running again and don't really feel guilty about going out for a few pints once or twice a week. I now take the setbacks in my stride (no pun intended) so when I get injured I just accept it and let my body recover. There'll always be other races if you don't make the DCM start line.

FWIW I wouldn't bother with the half and would do something similar to what Peckham is advising. The main thing is that you enjoy your running and don't let it take over your life. If you do decide to do the marathon just make sure you have a good attitude between now and the race. That way you're wife won't mind (too much) if when you decide to do another one!

Oh and read/post on the training logs if you aren't already. You can rant on there instead of melting your wife's head

. There's a lot of runners on there who have been through the mill and have come out the other side.

rigal

digger2d2 · 20-09-2009 06:46PM

Hi all,

Once again thanks for the advice....Went for a long run in the Phoenix Park today and struggled after about 8 miles so gave up on that and ended up spending about 20 mins doing speed work.....In general everything has been going the right direction but even when I do the longer runs the legs have been dead for a couple of days afterwards so I've decided to do the half next weekend and then return to my regular 5-7 mile runs and pick a Marathon in the Spring to prepare properly for....Another element to this is that I'd love to break 4 hours and if I only ever do 1 marathon I want to give myself the best chance of this........If anyone has any pointers for marathons in the Spring and/or 10k's in the meantime I'd be happy to hear them!

Thanks again,

Digger

hisholinessnb · 21-09-2009 12:40PM

did an lsr of 20 miles on saturday morning, it was excruciating. No injuries just stiff and sore, and some big old blisters.
Honestly not sure if I can do 26.2 based on how I felt on saturday.
Had done 16 and 18 before, but was about a month since the 18 due to injury.
Its my first marathon so hard to pick a "slow" pace to go on the lsrs, but for the first half I definately went slower than I could. But for the last 1/4 or so, well I dont know if I could have gone faster it was such a struggle.

did it in about 3 hrs 15. Really doubting if i can do this, hows it gonna feel if I run faster????

That said the runners were quite worn and I went for the gait analysis that afternoon (longest 10 second jog ever!!!) and turns out I had the wrong runner type as I overpronate! Hopefully new and correct runners will ease the burn on the legs???

RedB · 21-09-2009 01:25PM

hisholinessnb wrote: »

did an lsr of 20 miles on saturday morning, it was excruciating. No injuries just stiff and sore, and some big old blisters.
Honestly not sure if I can do 26.2 based on how I felt on saturday.
Had done 16 and 18 before, but was about a month since the 18 due to injury.
Its my first marathon so hard to pick a "slow" pace to go on the lsrs, but for the first half I definately went slower than I could. But for the last 1/4 or so, well I dont know if I could have gone faster it was such a struggle.

did it in about 3 hrs 15. Really doubting if i can do this, hows it gonna feel if I run faster????

That said the runners were quite worn and I went for the gait analysis that afternoon (longest 10 second jog ever!!!) and turns out I had the wrong runner type as I overpronate! Hopefully new and correct runners will ease the burn on the legs???

Well done on the 20miler. Thats some achievement and is a grind on the system especially the first time. I wouldn't worry about going faster for your first marathon, just go at a comfortable pace. There's no rush!
I'd be cautious about the change of runners as it can take time for your feet and legs to adjust to the different position. Break them in gently and over shorter distances. You want to avoid new blisters if possible.

RedB · 21-09-2009 01:29PM

digger2d2 wrote: »

Hi all,

Once again thanks for the advice....Went for a long run in the Phoenix Park today and struggled after about 8 miles so gave up on that and ended up spending about 20 mins doing speed work.....In general everything has been going the right direction but even when I do the longer runs the legs have been dead for a couple of days afterwards so I've decided to do the half next weekend and then return to my regular 5-7 mile runs and pick a Marathon in the Spring to prepare properly for....Another element to this is that I'd love to break 4 hours and if I only ever do 1 marathon I want to give myself the best chance of this........If anyone has any pointers for marathons in the Spring and/or 10k's in the meantime I'd be happy to hear them!

Thanks again,

Digger

Digger - I don't know if its suitable for a fast time but the Connemarathon is in April

scottreynolds · 21-09-2009 01:51PM

hisholinessnb wrote: »

did an lsr of 20 miles on saturday morning, it was excruciating. No injuries just stiff and sore, and some big old blisters.

Hey, 20 miles in fantastic ... and without too much pain

. Its good to be stiff and sore without injury. This run will only make you stronger. Have a relaxing bath ... or get a massage and you'll feel much better. One more of those before the marathon will set you up well.

hisholinessnb · 21-09-2009 02:30PM

gotta hand it to ye, the encouraging words do help, and I hate cheesy high fivin lovefests!
But this is just the right amount of love without goin to far!!

Marathon crisis of confidence

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