Fianna Failure Should Not Take Credit For Yes Vote

Well the Nice vote may be good for Europe and may or may not be good for Ireland depending on whom you talk to. But the way the whole thing has been run has not been good for democracy in this country. I hate to admit this but I almost agree with Typedef on many of his points on this topic. Inherently there has to be something wrong with rerunning a referendum within a year of a no vote just because the government doesn't like it. I appreciate that there were much weightier reasons this time but no one can tell me they wouldn't do it again over another issue.

Fianna Fail has lied to us, blatantly... and there is no justification for it. I’m not being naive here I know politicians lie a lot but they are not always caught out so badly.

One of the advantages Ireland has had is a large availability of educated native English speakers. Tied in with the favourable tax regime, it has given us an advantage over the UK. That's something that hasn't gone away after the Nice vote, it's not something that's going to go away after the accession of the new countries. The major second language for most students in Eastern Europe is German.

I agree that the credit for the approval of the amendment can't primarily lie with Fianna Fail. If anything they were one of the liabilities to the passing of the referendum, due to the small percentage who were convinced that voting no was a good way to sock it to them.

The credit for the passing of the amendment has to lie primarily with the Referendum Commission. Obviously they weren't campaigning for a decision either way but their literature and adverts were a lot more informative this time compared with last time. More people were able to make up their own minds as many of the issues were explained in plain language (though I thought the second booklet arrived a little late). They genuinely made an effort that was sadly lacking last summer. I voted no as people know, but to be honest I'd much rather see a group of people who knew something about the issues voting yes than a group of people voting no who didn't know that they were doing or why.

I assume the original comment was related to Bertie's short list of "thank you"s that included a number of groups including IBEC but left out the other political parties. I assume/hope he was just singling out his own workers for praise. It it was more of a snub towards the other parties then he's just being a big baby.

prefered instead to follow FF's policy of half guilting the country into accepting the treaty usually starting with their favourite line of "where would we be now if France had continued to block our entrance into the union?"

This worked. FF are top class campaigners.

Pat Cox who's passion and vision for the union are evident every time he opens his mouth

I personally switched channel - when Mr. Cox opens his mouth.

I wonder will Ireland still support the union when the farmers grants are taken away, and when the eastern hoards start arriving in Dublin airport, fit and ready to work for low wages

The Nice Treaty had nothinhg in it either for Ireland or the applicant countries. Our Interests in the EU are basically - what we can get out of it.

The bigger countries are exactly the same. Look how the bigger countries are able to bfreak the stability pact.

Don't mind Cork Aine, he sees everything thru FF tinted glasses.

As for FF's contribution to the Nice Treaty debate, the Yes side won despite FF & the PD's. They were pathetic, Biffo Cowen was clueless, Bungling Bertie well lived up to his name, at least they shut O'Cuiv up this time

As regards Pat Cox I do admire where he has gotten in the EU and it shows that he is a very shrewd politician, I however do not like the man at all.

Gandalf.

Originally posted by Cork
What has he achieved?

He's president of the European Parliament. He doesn't get to press the nuclear button but he's closer to it then I am (for example). I'm not the greatest fan of the guy tbh (he's something of a slimey shrewd self-serving operator, though I suppose that's the dictionary definition of a politician in any case) but I can appreciate that he's done well on the EU political front. Mind you, they do like to elect independent MEPs to the post and there aren't all that many of those.

At kleast Brian Cowen does not use the word "n*****" as used by Enda Kenny.

Have you ever been in the presence of Cowen with a few pints on him after a party conference/campaign/foreign affairs pissup? You might be very surprised me lad (though I'll concede that I've never heard or heard of the guy using the n****r word. Of course I've just used it, but that's context for you).

All in All - FF campaigned well for this treaty.

I think that we were sold a pup. (no offence to pups)

I think that from todays newspapers - we might be forced in a defacto way adapt an EU constitution.



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