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Lisbon vote October 2nd - How do you intend to vote?

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Comments

  • #2192
    Stark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 21,262 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    Summary of changes affecting national parliaments : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_lisbon#National_parliaments

    QMV explained: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualified_majority_voting


  • #2193
    Yellowsubmarine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 38 ✭Yellowsubmarine


    Im definitely voting no we voted no the last time and now we have to vote again its like there trying to force everyone to vote yes :mad:


  • #2194
    whatdoicare
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭whatdoicare


    I hate to repeat myself- I already voted NO - how many more times do we have to say No until they cop on.
    As far as I'm concerned something dodgy is going on that were not being told and we wont learn of it till after were all in deep doodoo.


  • #2195
    marco_polo
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,093 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    Yellowsubmarine wrote: »
    Im definitely voting no we voted no the last time and now we have to vote again its like there trying to force everyone to vote yes :mad:

    If you are being forced to vote yes, then how can it be possible for you to vote no?


  • #2196
    Yellowsubmarine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 38 ✭Yellowsubmarine


    marco_polo wrote: »
    If you are being forced to vote yes, then how can it be possible for you to vote no?


    dont twist my words i said its LIKE ther trying to force people to vote yes ...like if we vote no again this time are they just going to keep getting people to vote until its a yes :confused:


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  • #2197
    The Volt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,957 ✭✭✭The Volt


    Yellowsubmarine wrote: »
    Im definitely voting no we voted no the last time and now we have to vote again its like there trying to force everyone to vote yes :mad:
    There seems to be an endless amount of people who say the same thing on this thread everyday. After a few responses they disappear into the shadows and most don't come back, it's only a matter of time before the next comes. Instead of responding this time I'd just like to say that there are some great arguements to your 'doubts' about the treaty on the previous few pages, again I'll link my favourite Lisbon post yet.
    http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61945811&postcount=155


  • #2198
    The Volt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,957 ✭✭✭The Volt


    Yellowsubmarine wrote: »
    dont twist my words i said its LIKE ther trying to force people to vote yes ...like if we vote no again this time are they just going to keep getting people to vote until its a yes :confused:
    That's for your democratically elected Cabinet to decide


  • #2199
    Yellowsubmarine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 38 ✭Yellowsubmarine


    obviously a lot of people are going to be saying the same thing there saying if there voting yes or no that was the question after all :p


  • #2200
    Dinner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,132 ✭✭✭Dinner


    Yellowsubmarine wrote: »
    obviously a lot of people are going to be saying the same thing there saying if there voting yes or no that was the question after all :p

    If you don't mind me asking, how much research have you done into the events and negotiations that have taken place since the first Lisbon referendum?


  • #2201
    Yellowsubmarine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 38 ✭Yellowsubmarine


    Not that much to be honest I'm looking more into it now on the internet because the leaflet we got in the door was a load of S*** I just don't like what i'm hearing about it so :)


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  • #2202
    Dinner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,132 ✭✭✭Dinner


    Yellowsubmarine wrote: »
    Not that much to be honest I'm looking more into it now on the internet because the leaflet we got in the door was a load of S*** I just don't like what i'm hearing about it so :)

    Well a lot of work and research has occured to discover the reasons that people voted no. Based on these reasons the EU drew up the guarantees which address the concersn that people had like the Commissioner and taxation.

    So with these guarantees, isn't it only fair to have another referendum and see if peoples concerns have been met?


  • #2203
    mattman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 189 ✭✭mattman


    true true..i go over the top very easy.

    i was just looking over it.

    In theory, i should read and understand the current law.

    then try to understand the changes...

    Wheres my printer!?

    m.


  • #2204
    Yellowsubmarine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 38 ✭Yellowsubmarine


    Yea i suppose that is only fair but if we vote no again this time are we going to have to vote again until they get a yes or will that just be it? :)


  • #2205
    Dinner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,132 ✭✭✭Dinner


    Yellowsubmarine wrote: »
    Yea i suppose that is only fair but if we vote no again this time are we going to have to vote again until they get a yes or will that just be it? :)

    It's unlikely that there would be another vote. There's no precedent for one anyway.

    As you know Nice was voted on twice in Ireland and before Nice 2 we got certain assurances. Same with Denmark when they voted for a second time in Denmark on Maastricht.

    So it's not new to vote on a treaty again once concerns or problems have been ironed out. I see it as democracy in action. If a problem is discovered during a referendum then both the country and the EU try to solve the problem.


  • #2206
    meglome
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    mattman wrote: »
    http://unrepentantcommunist.blogspot.com/2009/05/vote-for-no-to-lisbon-candidates-in-eu.html


    had a read of this! crazy stuff...i ant no cummunist..but...its interesting reading..

    looked up yes and no sides...
    lot more no, explaned, why to vote no.

    As for the yes, sounds like a hot air and bull.

    Must admit i was undecided at 9pm. after on the net for last 3 hours..im def. no no no no no.

    bring on the vote...

    Undecided eh? So instead of reading the independent referendum commission's leaflet you read the claims of a self proclaimed 'unrepentant communist'. Now you'll forgive me but this strikes me as someone who is looking for reasons to vote No as they have already decided.


  • #2207
    meglome
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    whatdoicare wrote: »
    I hate to repeat myself- I already voted NO - how many more times do we have to say No until they cop on.
    As far as I'm concerned something dodgy is going on that were not being told and we wont learn of it till after were all in deep doodoo.

    There certainly is something dodgy going on, how many recently registered people can come in and same the exact same thing.


  • #2208
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    Yellowsubmarine wrote: »
    Yea i suppose that is only fair but if we vote no again this time are we going to have to vote again until they get a yes or will that just be it? :)

    That'll be it, I'd say. For one thing, the Treaty gets kicked back to the European Council if it still isn't fully ratified two years after signing - which is in December this year. For a second, a government may be entitled to run referendums as often as they like, but there's only any point in doing so if there's some chance of an answer they like - plus each rerun costs them political capital, which the current government is a little short on.

    Whatever the second result, I suspect Cowen et al will breathe a huge sigh of relief that it's effectively over, and out of their hands, with only the consequences to deal with (and spin).

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


  • #2209
    50hertz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31 ✭50hertz


    I voted no the first time and I'll vote no again...once is enough is'nt it?


  • #2210
    SDTimeout
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,660 ✭✭✭SDTimeout


    50hertz wrote: »
    I voted no the first time and I'll vote no again...once is enough is'nt it?

    Hello hertz, I am very interested in this and the last referendum. I have just entered this thread and have only read this page, so forgive me if this question has been answered,

    Why, in a few words,or sentences,did you vote No last time. Having spoken to and read the words of,literally hundreds of voters ,since the last vote, i have yet to meet anyone who had a logical reason for voting No.

    I would be glad to hear yours,perhaps you will be different.

    Thanks SD


  • #2211
    ranmac
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29 ✭ranmac


    SDTimeout wrote: »
    Hello hertz, I am very interested in this and the last referendum. I have just entered this thread and have only read this page, so forgive me if this question has been answered,

    Why, in a few words,or sentences,did you vote No last time. Having spoken to and read the words of,literally hundreds of voters ,since the last vote, i have yet to meet anyone who had a logical reason for voting No.

    I would be glad to hear yours,perhaps you will be different.

    Thanks SD

    Quite simple.

    1. Cowen is the architect of our current problems as he was 'finance' minister when the country was making money and he allowed the country to waste it. He, his party and the other parties now claim to be in a position to advise us as to how we should vote

    2. Read the Treaty my friend - insertion of Article 5b

    3. Think about and consider your family, children etc and all things that are important to you

    3. Finally go and read our Bunreacht na hEireann - our Constitution and decide which you would prefer

    Definitely a NO to the treaty


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  • #2212
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    lets see ...


    article 5b
    In defining and implementing its policies and activities, the Union shall aim to combat discrimination based on sex, racial or ethnic origin, religion or belief, disability, age or sexual orientation.

    whats wrong with the above? in relation to any family?? or the constitution???

    /


  • #2213
    ranmac
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29 ✭ranmac


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    lets see ...


    article 5b



    whats wrong with the above? in relation to any family?? or the constitution???

    /

    Frankly, if you can't see it then there's no use in trying to explain it to you.


  • #2214
    Ciaran500
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,225 ✭✭✭Ciaran500


    ranmac wrote: »
    Frankly, if you can't see it then there's no use in trying to explain it to you.

    :confused:

    What is wrong with 5b?


  • #2215
    BlackWizard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,265 ✭✭✭BlackWizard


    ranmac wrote: »
    Frankly, if you can't see it then there's no use in trying to explain it to you.

    I can't see it either. So explain it or GTFO out this thread :)


  • #2216
    marco_polo
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,093 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    lets see ...


    article 5b



    whats wrong with the above? in relation to any family?? or the constitution???

    /

    The discrimination bit by the looks of it.
    ranmac wrote: »
    It's te "sexual orientation" inclusion that I am making reference to. Have a look at The Irish Society for Christian Civilisation wbsite which states, inter alia,

    Our Lord Jesus Christ commanded: “Seek ye first the Kingdom of God and His justice, and everything else shall be added on to you.” In contrast to the Divine commandment, if the Treaty of Lisbon is ratified by Irish Catholics:
    • The E.U. will ignore God and the Christian roots of Europe and will create a new European identity based on radical secularism and atheistic philosophies. We do not want our children to grow up in an Ireland without God!
    • The E.U. will impose a relativistic and evolving idea of human rights, contrary to Catholic moral teaching. We do not want the relativisation of the principles that we will pass on to our children and grandchildren!
    • The E.U. will considerably restrict the protection of human life and will facilitate abortion, euthanasia, and embryo experimentation. We do not want the mass murder of innocents being promoted throughout Europe!
    • The E.U. will destroy the family by dissociating it from marriage between one man and one woman. Our children have the right to live in a normal home, in accordance with Catholic principles!
    • The E.U. will impose excessive limits on the right of the parents to educate their children in accordance with their convictions. The freedom to pass on the Faith is a legacy that can never be challenged in Catholic Ireland!
    • The E.U. will recognise, for the first time in the history of international treaties, “sexual orientation” as a basis for non-discrimination, opening the way for homosexual marriage and adoption of children by homosexuals. If today promiscuity and immorality already invade our homes and ruin the education of our children, what will it be like when these kinds of practices are imposed on us?


  • #2217
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    ranmac wrote: »
    Frankly, if you can't see it then there's no use in trying to explain it to you.

    You know that the same law is in our own Equality Act 2004 right? Is this a problem with gay marriage? Which of course isn't made legal by Lisbon, especially since that clause just reiterates a law that's already on our books

    edit: it seems it is a problem with gay marriage. I'm afraid The Irish Society for Christian Civilisation website is lying to you mate


  • #2218
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    marco_polo wrote: »
    The discrimination bit by the looks of it.

    i see i forgot the username, he brought this up before already on this same thread

    http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61921734&postcount=1996


    why does it feel like im repeating myself? oh wait thats what the whole NO campaign is about, tell a lie often enough and people will believe it!

    @ranmac here some reading for you from this very same thread

    http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61921817&postcount=1998

    http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61921933&postcount=2001


    also that the Church is not on the same side as these Coir activists, and are in support of the treaty!

    http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61922008&postcount=2004

    that makes Coir and their loonies a "heretical" organisation, no? maybe they should be "excommunicated"

    /


  • #2219
    rumour
    Closed Accounts Posts: 836 ✭✭✭rumour


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    At the end of the day, this is a discussion forum, not the Oireachtas. We exist to discuss things. While I'd prefer not to have people discussing the value of other people's opinions, simply posting your opinion and stating it's beyond discussion isn't any better.

    moderately,
    Scofflaw

    Good point ,just standing up for the oppressed:)


  • #2220
    rumour
    Closed Accounts Posts: 836 ✭✭✭rumour


    Good morning all, seems the barometer at the top of the thread is pointing towards a larger 'no' than in the actual referendum last year.

    Why is that? Is it because over 50% of people in this thread are downright stupid and pedelling in lies?


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  • #2221
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    rumour wrote: »
    Good morning all, seems the barometer at the top of the thread is pointing towards a larger 'no' than in the actual referendum last year.

    Why is that? Is it because over 50% of people in this thread are downright stupid and pedelling in lies?

    or some No campaigners don't have better things to be doing

    other than

    opening new accounts and voting ;) and then posting one liner sentences and not engaging in debate



    it will certainly be interesting the results on October the 2nd


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