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Issues of "free" access ("FTA") on Cable.

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  • 08-08-2009 1:22pm
    #1
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭


    watty wrote: »
    A TV channel generally only pays for carriage if the Channel is FTA.

    This should be the case, RTÉ, TV3 and TG4 should pay to be FTA on all systems where possible, i.e. UPC cable, it would provide them with better coverage and for UPC would be a selling point as people would have their cables in their homes without having to look for the company to come into put new channels on the service.


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    #2
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    You can't have FTA cable!


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    #3
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    watty wrote: »
    You can't have FTA cable!

    Why not? You get a connect into your house (paid for) it provides you with FTA RTÉ ONE, RTÉ TWO, TV3 and TG4. If you are a pay customer and you don't pay your bill Digital leaves you with just those 4 channels (3e if TV3 pay for it).

    During the analogue years just scramble UK TV signals put them on an STB to be decode (you could put RTE ONE, TWO, TV3 and TG4 on that analogue but unencrypted).

    But I amn't to techy perhaps this isn't possible.


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    #4
    icdg
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 11,529 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    Elmo wrote: »
    Why not? You get a connect into your house (paid for) it provides you with FTA RTÉ ONE, RTÉ TWO, TV3 and TG4. If you are a pay customer and you don't pay your bill Digital leaves you with just those 4 channels (3e if TV3 pay for it).

    During the analogue years just scramble UK TV signals put them on an STB to be decode (you could put RTE ONE, TWO, TV3 and TG4 on that analogue but unencrypted).

    But I amn't to techy perhaps this isn't possible.

    Even in such a scenario you've still paid for the connection. There really is no such a thing as free cable. It was the partly fact that this such scenario was actually happening "on the ground" in Cork that led to the network going fully digital...
    *My post are my opinion they may often not be based on fact in the same way as columnist in publications may also be only giving an opinion that does not reflect the character of the organisation that publishes them. I suspect that many of my posts views are not held by any organisation called boards.ie

    Be careful anyway. Case law is against you on this one. Tackle the issue, not the individual...this is the last I will say on this, as the main topic of this thread is one of the more interesting topics we've had in the Cable & Digital forums for some time.


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    #5
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    icdg wrote: »
    Even in such a scenario you've still paid for the connection. There really is no such a thing as free cable. It was the partly fact that this such scenario was actually happening "on the ground" in Cork that led to the network going fully digital...

    Be careful anyway. Case law is against you on this one. Tackle the issue, not the individual...this is the last I will say on this, as the main topic of this thread is one of the more interesting topics we've had in the Cable & Digital forums for some time.

    That is fine pay for the connection. But after that it could be free. Satellite installations cost money as do TV aerials. Cork shouldn't have that scenario anymore since digital and UPCs need to improve their reception for digital. And even through illegal connections (did they make them illegal? I know it was recommended not to make them illegal) unauthorized connections we can see that FTC or FTW (Free to Cable/Wire) is possible.

    Damn case law. Anyway I am attacking his policies, my opinion is that they weren't very good. I am sure I can have those opinions of governments.

    When did NI get cable?


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    #6
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    Even in such a scenario you've still paid for the connection. There really is no such a thing as free cable.

    1) There IS such a thing as free cable but one is not allowed to discuss such things.......:D
    2) Is it not free if the previous occupants of ones house had it and youre only using it for the basic 4 (5 in NI) channels ?
    3) By extention there is no such thing as free satellite because one still has to pay for the equipment to recieve it/electricity/etc


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    #7
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    By extention there is no such thing as free satellite because one still has to pay for the equipment to recieve it/electricity/etc

    You're missing my point. Most people have to pay some one to install a satellite, and some have to pay for external Aerials. You even have to go out and buy internal Aerials to get a reception. Which is just the same as getting someone to install Cable for a fee, hence a just like FTA on sat and terrestrial, cable should be able to provide users with FTW/C services, once the initial connection fee is paid. Which is what we do with over the air products.

    Electricity and Licence Fee are extras that we all have to pay, unless we put up a wind turbine and refuse to pay the licence fee by only having computer monitors in the house. But then there is the issue of Broabband which I am sure you could also get for free :D


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    #8
    lawhec
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,757 ✭✭✭lawhec


    The idea of a "free-to-air" cable hook-up mentioned in this thread is not feasible at least in terms of a business model. The likes of cable systems as used by UPC, Virgin Media etc. are best described as "closed-circuit", they have never been intended to be received on a broadcast basis either by design or by fault - they're private systems, and they'd be no commercial interest in them to offer such a product.


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    #9
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    lawhec wrote: »
    The idea of a "free-to-air" cable hook-up mentioned in this thread is not feasible at least in terms of a business model. The likes of cable systems as used by UPC, Virgin Media etc. are best described as "closed-circuit", they have never been intended to be received on a broadcast basis either by design or by fault - they're private systems, and they'd be no commercial interest in them to offer such a product.

    RTÉ, TV3 and TG4 (i.e. the must carries) pay to be on the services. The rest can be encrypted, most cable companies have basic, intermediate and premium packages, why not a free package.

    It would certainly boost UPCs numbers and the availabilty of pay TV whenever. All you need to do is call UPC for your extra channels and they start billing you again. And they would not be losing any money since the must carries would be paying. Why should RTE, TV3 and TG4 go out for free on cable so that the cust can pick up the tab?

    One Vision will be doing this, and sky already do it.


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    #10
    icdg
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 11,529 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    Elmo wrote: »
    RTÉ, TV3 and TG4 (i.e. the must carries) pay to be on the services. The rest can be encrypted, most cable companies have basic, intermediate and premium packages, why not a free package.

    It would certainly boost UPCs numbers and the availabilty of pay TV whenever. All you need to do is call UPC for your extra channels and they start billing you again. And they would not be losing any money since the must carries would be paying. Why should RTE, TV3 and TG4 go out for free on cable so that the cust can pick up the tab?

    One Vision will be doing this, and sky already do it.

    Er, One Vision will not be doing this. RTÉ will be the ones broadcasting the FTA four on DTT. One Vision, if they sign the contract, will have nothing to do with RTÉ's multiplex.

    Why should UPC provide an ongoing service to someone without an ongoing payment. It is like saying that you should pay only for a connection to the ESB network and not for the electricity you use. There is an ongoing cost to UPC of providing you with a cable service, why should they do it for free?


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    #11
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    icdg wrote: »
    Er, One Vision will not be doing this. RTÉ will be the ones broadcasting the FTA four on DTT. One Vision, if they sign the contract, will have nothing to do with RTÉ's multiplex.

    Why should UPC provide an ongoing service to someone without an ongoing payment. It is like saying that you should pay only for a connection to the ESB network and not for the electricity you use. There is an ongoing cost to UPC of providing you with a cable service, why should they do it for free?

    Sorry RTE, TG4 and TV3 should pay to be on the UPC network just in the same way as RTE, TG4 and TV3 pay to be on the RTE NL network, hence why they are FTA.

    Now while we all may state One Vision won be providing 1 multiplex for free, One Vision hope that most users of the system will use One Vision boxes, hence giving them access to the majority of homes across the country. Cust doesn't pay bill, pay channel cut off, cust want to rejoin, pay channels put on. Cust never want pay channels, but then they see something they want cust buys.

    UPC would just leave the connection on, for the FTA/FTC channels. And should someone want quick access to UPC then it is cheaper for them and the customer, it give additional channels


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    #12
    Apogee
    Registered Users Posts: 3,776 ✭✭✭Apogee


    Elmo wrote: »
    Why should RTE, TV3 and TG4 go out for free on cable so that the cust can pick up the tab?

    One Vision will be doing this, and sky already do it.

    What???
    Elmo wrote: »
    Sorry RTE, TG4 and TV3 should pay to be on the UPC network just in the same way as RTE, TG4 and TV3 pay to be on the RTE NL network, hence why they are FTA.

    Instead of funneling taxpayer/licence-fee monies into a private company, it could be made part of the licence terms that they carry the 4 terrestrials for free.

    AFAIK in Cork in analogue days they were transmitted in the clear on cable, whereas all the other channels were scrambled.


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    #13
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    RTE gets free carriage, encryption and EPG worth possibley over €40M a year on Sky. Sky should actually be paying RTE, as the 4 Irish channels on Satellite are only part of Sky's PayTV package. There is no "must carry" either. Sky is a foriegn platform operator who sees it as financially advantageous to sell into Ireland and have the Irish channels as part of its package.

    That UPC should provide a cable connection for free is a daft idea. For a start, soon there will be no Analogue on cable.

    The main reason for lack of encryption of some channels on Cable was to reduce cost. A cable company in the past was also not going to worry to much about you stealing service that gives you a channel available at better quality free via an aerial.

    UPC and Sky should be paying RTE etc as they get commercial advantage from carrying them.


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    #14
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,522 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    IMO the Irish government should require the Irish channels to be carried for free and unencrypted on all platforms (UPC, Sky, Magnet, etc.).

    Just like the UK government does with the UK terrestrial channels which are carried for free and unencrypted on sat and virgin cable. After all people have already paid their TV license, so they have already paid to receive these channels.

    Yes, I'm well aware of the issues faced with spill over and licensing on sat, but I'm a strong believer in the general idea and that the spill over issues could be dealt with.


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    #15
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    On satellite it's impossible for Irish TV to be FTA due to coverage from Mayo to Munich and Spain to Iceland. 25x bigger audience than BBC/ITV desired coverage

    Cable is service that has to be installed and connected by a private company. It can't be free on cable.

    You can't get Virgin Cable for free. The UK channels are included, not free.

    I'm locking this thread Elmo started as it's old arguments on previous threads and can only end badly.


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    #16
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Sorry Mossy watty You can merge this with the closed thread can't wait for reponce.

    TV3, RTE and TG4 have commercial monies for carraige on UPC.

    I was only mentioning sky since they remove all non-free channels once you stop paying, I understand that Sky is not required to have must carries and that sky is not an Irish company.

    I also understand that RTE, TV3 and TG4 on the bonus pack is worth millions to them I was not talking about Sat so lets leave sat out of it thanks.

    UPC Free TV,

    - yes you are correct to state that UPC must send some one out to connect you to their network, just as someone may have to come out and put up and Ariel (FTA Terrestrial) or a Satellite (FTA Satellite without 1,2,3,4).

    -Once the initial connection is made then it is up to you weather you subscribe to the other pay UPC services. The connection would be paid for rather than for free. 200 euro to get a cable connection without the pay services, free if you go for paid services.

    It was in history as it was suggested in 1984 that the cable infrastructure is just as important as the Terrestrial Infrastructure. In other words a very important telecommunications sector in Ireland.


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    #17
    Mossy Monk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 28,128 ✭✭✭✭Mossy Monk


    Elmo wrote: »
    Sorry Mossy You can merge this with the closed thread can't wait for reponce.

    What?


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    #18
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Mossy Monk wrote: »
    What?

    Yes you are right, What*


    *I mean watty


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    #19
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    ANYONE, including yourself can fit an Aerial.

    Only the cable company can install themselves, it's a Service, an aerial isn't.

    ELMO, any more on this and you get an Infraction or Ban. :(

    I said I would discuss the Thread with the other Mods.


This discussion has been closed.
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