DCM training by complete novice.

menoscemo · 18-06-2009 09:12PM

3 miles on the treadmill tonight in 26 minutes followed by weights and rowing. Felt really good tonight, not my usual treadmill struggle and my legs were 100%. Never got my 6 miler done yesterday, an unexpectedly long day at work meant I was knackered. Probably a good thing anyway as I will have to do my 13 miler tomorrow evening since I am going away for the weekend and I don't think I am fit enough for 4 days in a row. This will hopefully prove or disporove my theory that my HR is slower on evening runs over morning runs...
In other news my Resting HR is down to 44 from 51 when I first got my Garmin just over a month ago!!

menoscemo · 19-06-2009 09:39PM

Well as the title suggests I am just back from my best ever run I guess, a different runner from last week.
To Compare; last week I did 12 miles in 1hr54mins with an Avg/Hr of 161 pace 9"28/mile. I am just back from completing just over a full half marathon (13.15 miles) in 1hr 57 mins 29 secs, Avg HR 153, pace 8"56/mile.
So my pace was just over 30sec/mile quicker and HR was nearly 10bpm lower. Felt great tonight, had loads more left in the tank. I think my dream of a 4 hr Marathon is back on!!
I put the improvement down to a few factors. I obviously prefer evening runs in general, probably because I have eaten more throughout the day as opposed to just after a light breakfast. I also had a few extra chocolate bars before going out and filled my pocket up with a new favourite jelly sweet (they are filled with yoghurt and are incredibly soft in the mouth, not leaving it dry). I also decided to go into Tymon park and do the most of my run there, great to run on smooth paths and not have to worry about cars...I am so stupid not to have used this facility before, definately will for the future. Weather was nice and cool too with a refereshing breeze

Anyway my splits were: 9"44/145, 9"17/152, 9"22/152, 8"46/152, 9"22/152, 9"00/152, 9"05/152, 8"54/152, 8"48/153, 8"48/152, 8"43/156, 8"20/157, 8"11/158.

To conclude, my longest ever run and probably my best, I have come a long way since January. I feel like a real runner way hayyyy :pac:
Tonights run: http://connect.garmin.com/activity/7311099

Gringo78 · 20-06-2009 12:50PM

menoscemo wrote: »

So my pace was just over 30sec/mile quicker and HR was nearly 10bpm lower. Felt great tonight, had loads more left in the tank. I think my dream of a 4 hr Marathon is back on!!

I think if you continue on your training schedule you'll definitly be on for a sub 4hr. I've found training by HR a very good way to train...it takes the guessing out of what pace to run your long slow runs at. If you are an experienced runner with a good few years under the belt, you'll know what is your correct pace but looking at your log, you'll be improving your running ability all the time during your marathon training which means your long run pace now will be slower than say in 8 weeks time. You seem to have found your HR though for those runs so just keep them in the range 150-155 and you'll find that the pace you settle into will slowly increase over the weeks. After a 2 or 3 week taper before the marathon the pace you can sustain at that same HR will be faster again.

The other benefit of paying attention to your heart rate is you'll be forced to slow down on days when you've had a hard day at work or something and are tired and likewise on days where for some reason be it rest/diet whatever you have an extra spring in your step, you can push on knowing you are keeping to your normal heart rate.

Best of luck with the training, for your first marathon the long runs are the most important so try to get them all in. On easy/recovery days in your schedule, really watch your heart rate and keep it down on the run....your body needs the recovery time, you'll train better on the days that matter then.

menoscemo · 21-06-2009 10:24PM

Thanks for the words and encouragement gringo, nice to hear that someone thinks I am doing it right!! Hope the rest of my runs continue to be as good.
This week is a 'cut back' week. 3-7-4-10, still two decent runs there and will try to do them in the park. I plan toget the 3 miler done tomorrow.

menoscemo · 22-06-2009 08:20PM

3 miles tonight in 24"30. Av pace 8"11, Hr 155
Felt a bit heavy legged tonight, proabably normal after the weekend I had!

osnola ibax · 22-06-2009 11:16PM

I had a really heavy 3 miles tonight aswell, I overdid it at the weekend and then it was really warm out there aswell. Interesting stuff about hrm. I have one but am actually a little afraid to put it on in case it's really high

menoscemo · 23-06-2009 09:43AM

osnola ivax wrote: »

I had a really heavy 3 miles tonight aswell, I overdid it at the weekend and then it was really warm out there aswell. Interesting stuff about hrm. I have one but am actually a little afraid to put it on in case it's really high

I was afraid to wear it too after I realised I was pushing it too hard in most of my runs, but because of wearing it, I have slowed down my training runs. I guess this means I am not pushing myself too hard and this will help me avoid injury. It also allows me to see improvements without running races. e.g two weeks ago I ran a 3 mile at the same pace as last night but my HR was 4bpm higher 2 weeks ago.

menoscemo · 24-06-2009 07:45PM

7.18 miles tonight in 1hr7min25s pace 9"23, Avg Hr 153. Lovely evening probably a little too hot!
Really enjoying doing these longer runs in the park instead of the bumps and traffic dodging involved in running on footpaths....

I was a little slow tonight, probably because I came straight from a 3 course work meal including chocolate brownie and Ice cream for desert!! ah well, at least I burned some of it off :pac:

menoscemo · 25-06-2009 09:19PM

My 4 mile lap tonight turned out to only be 3.5miles. I did that in 29mins 40, 8"29 pace, HR 150. 10 miles tomorrow, would like to do it in 1.5hrs while keeping HR under 155. Let's see.

menoscemo · 26-06-2009 08:32PM

menoscemo wrote: »

10 miles tomorrow, would like to do it in 1.5hrs while keeping HR under 155. Let's see.

Whoop, 10.01 miles in 1hr29min01sec av HR 150 pace 8"53. Legs felt tired but the stats are good. Splits 9"08/143, 9"13/148, 9"02/150, 8"53/152, 8"34/152, 9"12/153, 8"47/150, 8"44/149, 8"44/151 8"40/150. Happy with that, pretty consistent.

Edit: woohoo page 2!!

menoscemo · 29-06-2009 08:56PM

This weeks plan is 3-7-4-15
Just back from the 3 mile. I was running along very one paced (2x9 minute miles) so decided to se what I could do on the last mile home and opened up. Just checked the Garmin there, I did mile 2.00-2.33 in bang on 2 minutes or 6 minute/mile pace, I realised that was unsustainable and slowed down for the middle of the mile then picked it up again at the end. I did the last mile in 7"11.

Overall 3.01miles in 25"11. Avg HR 151 (164 for the last mile). I am glad I did this. I think I could churn out 3x7 minute miles if pushed in a race. I have the 5 mile coming up in July so I need to get a feel for what pace I can sustain and I think this has helped.

menoscemo · 30-06-2009 08:11PM

Todays scheduled 7 mile turned into an impromtu 5 mile record attempt. I tried the new surroundings of Marlay park for the first time and after an unintentionally quick first mile, I decided to kick on and see if I could break 40 minutes for 5 miles (did 40"37 in the terenure 5 mile classic about 6 weeks ago). Came in with 5.01miles in 39"50sec. Happy with that, quite a hilly course (seemed like 3/4 uphill lol). I would hope to take a minute or so of that in the 5 mile classic in Phoenix park in 3 weeks, I think I could if I go out knowing I am running a 5 mile race!!

Splits were 7"59/142, 8"19/159, 7"47/159, 8"07/164, 7"38/168; overall 7"57 pace Av HR 158.

menoscemo · 02-07-2009 09:00PM

4 miles in the gym treadmill today in about 32 minutes. Comfortable enough.

Tomorrow evening I paln to do my LSR; 15 miles:o

menoscemo · 03-07-2009 09:34PM

15.02 miles in 2"15"02, avg pace 9"01, Avg HR 150
My legs felt heavy heading out but I settled in and ran consisitently up to about 10 miles, then I hit a mini wall and my legs felt like lead!! I managed to struggle through anyway but there was no zip, Last mile home was slightly downhill but only managed 9"14, usually I dash it home. It wasn't that I was out of breath, (My HR was only 146 for the last mile) but my legs were gone. I put it down to the heat, I sweated a lot, and not having ate enough today. Also I normally carry a pocketful of Jelly sweets on my LSR's but forgot tonight.

Anyway lessons learned. It wasn't a bad run overall and as my longest runby 2 miles, I am glad to get it done.

osnola ibax · 05-07-2009 04:33PM

Meno, you are going really well, well on for sub 4

Gringo78 · 05-07-2009 04:42PM

menoscemo wrote: »

Last mile home was slightly downhill but only managed 9"14, usually I dash it home. It wasn't that I was out of breath, (My HR was only 146 for the last mile) but my legs were gone. I put it down to the heat, I sweated a lot, and not having ate enough today. Also I normally carry a pocketful of Jelly sweets on my LSR's but forgot tonight.

Anyway lessons learned. It wasn't a bad run overall and as my longest runby 2 miles, I am glad to get it done.

I think you'll always feel like that on the last mile of the first time doing your longest run......I suspect it'll be the same when you increase that long run again...however next time you do 15 you'll be grand. I think its a massive mental thing when you are running a distance have already surpassed it just seems so much easier than the first time you did it.

menoscemo · 05-07-2009 10:14PM

osnola ivax wrote: »

Meno, you are going really well, well on for sub 4

Thanks for that, I have read your log too and I am sure you will have no problems either. Rememeber I am going into week 11 of my marathon training and back when I started I had nothing like your times now. So You will improve loads I am sure and maybe will be chasing 3.45 IMO.
I hope I don't lose too much form in the 4 weeks I will miss when on holidays (no doubt drinking to beat the band, fingers crossed I don't go back on the ciggies, I gave them up in January). We will see how we are fixed at the end of august as we will be doing the same week of training then. Do You plan to follow the 4hr pace group?

This weeks plan is 4-8-4-16. I think I might have a tilt at my 5km personal best instead of one of the 4 mile runs. There is a lap of exactly 5km in Tymon park where I run, so that sets it up perfectly.

osnola ibax · 05-07-2009 10:53PM

menoscemo wrote: »

Thanks for that, I have read your log too and I am sure you will have no problems either. Rememeber I am going into week 11 of my marathon training and back when I started I had nothing like your times now. So You will improve loads I am sure and maybe will be chasing 3.45 IMO.
I hope I don't lose too much form in the 4 weeks I will miss when on holidays (no doubt drinking to beat the band, fingers crossed I don't go back on the ciggies, I gave them up in January). We will see how we are fixed at the end of august as we will be doing the same week of training then. Do You plan to follow the 4hr pace group?

This weeks plan is 4-8-4-16. I think I might have a tilt at my 5km personal best instead of one of the 4 mile runs. There is a lap of exactly 5km in Tymon park where I run, so that sets it up perfectly.

Thanks mate, appreciate the support. I was gonna say that I think you are probably on for 3:45 aswell, and you are in a great position already. Will you get a chance to keep yourself ticking over even with a few runs when on holidays. Whatever you do though, do not smoke, we are similar insofar as I gave up in January aswell but smoked about 40 at recent stag do, first smokes in 6 months. I felt so guilty. So for what its worth, I advise you to save yourself the guilt trip.

Yeah, I was gonna go for the sub 4 pace group. If things are going really well coming up to it, then I might go for the 3:45 pace group. But I genuinely think at this stage that sub 4 is the best I can hope for. It was only on this mornings run actually that I realised how big an undertaking this is. Havent felt pain in the legs like that since half marathon in April. Wasn't too bad though but didn't think I could go much further this morning. Mind you I didnt take on any water during the run. Do you manage to get water on during the lsr's and how do you go about it. I also stopped for 2 minutes this morn to readjust hrm.

By the way you were right about my resting heart rate in other thread, I measured it this morning as soon as I woke up and it was 50 - 55 and not 65 as I originally thought.

I have a 5 mile race in Phoenix park on Saturday week, so hope to make a good fist of my first effort at that distance.

Best of luck with the training

menoscemo · 05-07-2009 11:37PM

I have that race too. Maybe see you there cos I don't think we will be far apart in terms of time. I will be happy with anything under 40 minutes given the amount of people.

RE Water, I wear a water belt. It is like one of those Waist pouches with a bottle holder. I bought it in Lidl or Aldi when they had a runners week on (so look out from this thursday as the runing gear is in again). It came with a 250ml bottle but I have a half litre sports bottle that fits perfectly in there. So I drink loads before going out and drink from the bottle as I Get thirsty, I have found the half litre to be enough so far. I put a sports drink in it if I am going over 7 or 8 miles. You get used to it, I find it to be no trouble at all, and you can put your keys in the pouch to avoid them rubbing against your leg.

RE holidays- hope to get a few runs in but wouldn't cross my fingers. I am not one for running with hangovers or doing anything much generally!

menoscemo · 07-07-2009 07:57PM

Went out for a four mile 'Jog' this evening after work. It seems to be a recurring theme with my short tuns in the last week but I kicked off with a really quick mile again so kept up the speed and tried to go as fast as possible.
Ended up with 4.01 miles in 30"36. Avg Pace 7"38, Avg HR 159
Splits 7"38/149, 7"45/160, 7"33/162, 7"36/166

Really pleased with this as I kept a steady pace, Miles 2 and 4 are uphill so I finished with a good strong mile. Would hope to kep this pace up for a 5th mile next weekend for a 38minute 5 miles.

menoscemo · 08-07-2009 08:32PM

8.02 miles tonight in exactly 1hr 10 minutes tonight. 8"44 pace, avg HR 147. My highest HR was 154 which would be my normal avg HR on an LSR :eek:

All was really comfortable and at a relatively fast pace for a long run. I have really noticed that my avg HR is coming way down on longer runs while my pace is maintaining or if anything getting slightly faster. I guess this is a good sign

I think that doing the short runs as speed tests is really helping.

menoscemo · 10-07-2009 07:01PM

Was gonna do my 4 mile yesterday and 16 mile lsr today, but I felt totally off yesterday so I took a rest instead. Just did my 4 mile now and plan to do the 16 mile tomorrow evening or sunday morning (depends on how much I drink tonight!).
Anyway 4.10 mles in exactly 36 minutes. 8"47 pace, Avg HR 145.
Nice and easy, tried a road route for a change and realised why I prefer the park nowadays!!

menoscemo · 12-07-2009 10:50AM

I went out for my 16 mile LSR early this morning. I was having a really difficult run, quite slow and higher than normal HR. I think this proves I am not a MORNING RUNNER!! However I was forced to pull up on 10 miles as My left knee got really sore. It came on all of a sudden. The pain comes from the inside thigh just round the knee and seems to go right up the inside of the thigh as far as the groin. Worst of all I was about 4 miles from home at the time and had to walk most of the way home before flaggin down a taxi. I am now sitting with a bag of frozen chips tied to my knee, hoping I will be ok for next saturdays 5 mile race in Phoenix park Arghhhhh, and I was just saying in the week how well the training had been going and how amazed I was that I had no signs of injury :rolleyes:

anyway 10.19 miles in 1"33, pace 9"13 HR 151.

Sub430 · 12-07-2009 12:44PM

That's unfortunate menoscemo, I've been following this with interest, you've been doing really well, very consistent.

Hopefully it's just your body saying take it easy for a while - could work to your advantage though, you'll be fully fresh for next week.
Best of luck.

menoscemo · 12-07-2009 08:39PM

Sub430 wrote: »

Hopefully it's just your body saying take it easy for a while - could work to your advantage though, you'll be fully fresh for next week.
Best of luck.

I really hope so. I am just back from the Dubs match, I have been on my feet most of the day and it is not stopping me from doing normal things as such and it is not swollen, but I cannot bend my knee back past about 60 degrees. I might see a physio later in the week, but there will certainly be no running....I really want to do the 5 mile race on saturday though but I fear it might be impossible.

osnola ibax · 12-07-2009 10:32PM

menoscemo wrote: »

I really hope so. I am just back from the Dubs match, I have been on my feet most of the day and it is not stopping me from doing normal things as such and it is not swollen, but I cannot bend my knee back past about 60 degrees. I might see a physio later in the week, but there will certainly be no running....I really want to do the 5 mile race on saturday though but I fear it might be impossible.

ah jaysus, theres a long time between now and then, dont give up hope yet, RICE, rest. ice. something beginning with C. elevate

LambDave · 13-07-2009 11:34AM

Really hope it turns out ok for you. You've been putting in some savage training so wouldnt worry about taking a couple of days off to let yourself recover.

menoscemo · 13-07-2009 06:29PM

I think the C is Compression???

Anyway, thanks lads. I had Ice and Biofreeze gel on the knee/muscle since last night, and today it feels quite good (am able to bend the knee back), so hopefully I'll make it...I think the injury is not as bad as first feared, I think I might have stopped my run before it did too much damage.
I will rest the next few days for sure but I would like to get out on Thursday just to do a 4 mile jog and make sure I am ok to run on Saturday. I Will probably go to the gym a few days to make up for my laziness otherwise I might put on half a stone before saturday

menoscemo · 15-07-2009 09:40PM

Went to the gym today and decided to do a smooth 5k on the 'Dreadmill' to test the waters. Thankfully all went well, no pain at all. I even yanked it up in the middle to my goal 5 mile pace for 1k .

So it seems like it was all a bit of a false alarm, similar to when I thought my claves had gone a few weeks ago. I did a few leg weights after my running (as well as upper body) for the first time in months and noticed that my ability to do the leg curl had really dropped-I could barely do 3 x 10 at 25KG!! Interestingly this targets the inner thigh muscle near the knee that gave me trouble. I reckon the muscle has just got weak, so i will be introducing this into my weights routine from now on.

Anyway, I plan to go to phoenix park tomorrow night to jog the 5 mile course, then take it easy on friday and race on saturday. I will go back to my programme ext week if all goes well.

In other news My weight has dropped for the first time in months. I was at 75kg when I started this log, but somehow rose to about 77kg as my running upped

tonight i weighed myself at 74kg after the workout so all going in the right direction. I have no idea why it rose nor why it has dropped again now, so hope to just plod along and fingers crossed I can drop a few more KG.

osnola ibax · 15-07-2009 10:28PM

Hey meno, great news, hope you get your goal time on sat.

In terms of the weight thing, when I started running 6 months ago my weight went up aswell for ages and only started to come down after a couple of months. I put it down to toning, but who knows. I've certainly lost a stone since then.

Do u have a garmin, yes I'm sure you do. Is there any chance you could wear it if doing the course and post up an elevation profile. Would be really handy, also for the 10 miler which is apparently two laps of the five miler. Cheers

DCM training by complete novice.

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