John O'Conor's comments on Adult Music Students

Undergod · 18-05-2009 12:36PM

I don't entirely agree with what he said, but I think attacking the RIAM for not accepting beginners over a certain age is missing the point. It's an institution providing a certain service- there are many many places adult beginners can go to learn instruments, and the Academy is not one of them. I don't see allowing adults to sit the Grade exams as hypocritical at all.

Pianist2891 · 18-05-2009 07:21PM

Undergod wrote: »

I don't entirely agree with what he said, but I think attacking the RIAM for not accepting beginners over a certain age is missing the point. It's an institution providing a certain service- there are many many places adult beginners can go to learn instruments, and the Academy is not one of them. I don't see allowing adults to sit the Grade exams as hypocritical at all.

I am only clarifying my own comments in case they weren't clear, what is hypocritical is not allowing adults to sit grade exams, but not admit them into the RIAM - nearly all music conservatoires worldwide DONT accept beginners over a certain age, and that is all very well. In the context of what has already been said, DISCOURAGING ADULT BEGINNERS to aspire towards a high level of playing, technically and musically but yet encouraging them to appear for exams is where the problem seemed to arise.

Obviously music conservatoires are focussing on training professional concert performers, and nearly all are in agreement that for THAT outcome, one must start as young as possible.

Having said that, 9 adult/amateurs today worked in a masterclass with one of the world's greatest living pianists, who had much incredible insight, praise, advice, technical and musical guidance to give them all. He also said that very often a so called "amateur" or "late starter" would show more innate musicality and sense of direction than many of his "thumping 18 year olds" at the conservatoire where he teaches!

rcaz · 18-05-2009 08:19PM

funky penguin wrote: »

Started piano and music when I was 21, got into music degree when I was 22, finished 1st year with a 1st class honours and a Grade 8 cert. Currently have a 75% average in second year and my teacher said I'd be well able for 3rd year performance.

If you want it, GO GET IT!

I'm planning to put my full efforts into piano this summer, but I was thinking of it as a really tough task, and this post was really encouraging. Thanks

ManofMunster · 20-05-2009 02:01AM

go for it El! knock em dead!

learned piano when in school but quit when went to uni (living away from home; no access to piano; too fond of socialising). went back two years ago at age 32 and got myself a recital diploma within a year and a half of my second coming. still struggle to find as much time as i'd like to practise on account of work, professional exams, following munster etc... (john o'conor having refused point blank to sponsor me to quit work;) ) but i'm lovin' it all the same.

on the original point, it was dr o'conor's dismissiveness of late starters that rankled. there he was, ireland's pre-eminent pianist, with a question that teed him up perfectly to encourage the nation's adults to go and learn and enjoy music. instead he blew it just so he could remind us all of the technical brilliance possessed by his ilk, that can only be attained by taking one's first masterclass while still in the womb.

the tone, as much the words, annoyed me.

funky penguin · 13-07-2009 11:47PM

Sorry to drag from the depths, but this has to be posted!!!

My brother has been playing 'cello now for about 3 years. After 1 year, he got grade 4 ABRSM and just got grade 8 there last month with distinction. On top of that, he got accepted into the RIAM to study under William Butt!!!! :eek:

But by far and away the best bit......he is 22.

banquo · 14-07-2009 02:02AM

Cool! Fair play to your brother. That must have taken some serious effort.

tootyflutty · 14-07-2009 08:43AM

Ridiculus! I started flute at 14 and less than 4 years later I have completed my grade 8 with a distinction. I used to play piano from the age of about 4 and because of a series of bad teachers gave it up after grade 4, but as I plan on studying music next year have just began to play properly again. Finding it much easier now that I'm older than when I was smaller and the concept of music and scales just escaped me.

funky penguin · 14-07-2009 01:06PM

banquo wrote: »

Cool! Fair play to your brother. That must have taken some serious effort.

Its probably the reason you've never seen him about college, always at home practicing.

FranzL · 14-07-2009 07:26PM

Others have indicated how they got on well after starting late, so here's my story:
Decided at 17 that I would like to play piano.
Took first lessons but avoided exams for many years. Just enjoyed trying to play easier pieces, classical and popular. Continued with lessons.
At 30 passed first exam (T.C.L. grade 8)
At 31 passed ALCM diploma and ATCL teaching diploma.
At 36 passed LTCL teaching diploma.
Have taught at 2 music schools.
Still enjoy playing a wide selection of music.
I was fortunate in getting teachers who taught music, not just piano, and who always gave encouragement.

BigStupidGuy · 14-07-2009 11:09PM

Hey this is Funky Penguins Brother, I just thought I'd explain my story a bit better...

It didn't help at the interview for the RIAM that one of the first things I was asked after playing was, given my age what did I hope to achieve by playing the cello? In fairness he seemed very awkward and made it clear he didn't want to ask the question, but he said he had to..

I just said that I believe if I continue to work my ass off like I have been the last 2-3 years that I just don't believe there's any limit to how good I can become in the next few.. It must of worked!

But I think there's more to why I was accepted than that
1: My age, how long I've been playing and my progress made
2: My attitude
3: Most NB I think... I played a modern piece by George Crumb.

He said he really appreciated me playing the Crumb (I think he was sick to death of everyone playing the standards) and thanked me for coming, and this guy is no joke type "William Butt" into Google and click on the first link if you don't believe me...

Above all I was surprised by how incredibly nice, helpful and encouraging they all were! I guess they knew hard work when they saw it and wanted to give me a break! (especially after a disastrous Feis Ceoil and NYOI audition..:()

Hope that clarifies and helps! Good luck everyone!!!

banquo · 15-07-2009 01:23AM

Many thanks for the post, BigStupidGuy.

Extra credit for cool username

funky penguin · 15-07-2009 09:47AM

You're getting credit from me for making your first serious post on boards.

That modern piece thing is an interesting point. With cello, I'm sure they're sick of people playing the Bach suites (or trying to play them), and there are SO many interpretations and opinions that its a bit of a mine field.

With a modern piece you have more room to maneuver with interpretation and it has the added bonus of making you look awesomely in tune with modern musc.

This George Crumb piece has really grown on me and I can see the intensity in my brother when he plays it now, its obviously an important piece for him personally now.

I would add that pieces that are not well known, or not in the traditional performance cannon of your instrument would be another excellent choice. For example, friend of mine is now playing some Medtner for is final year, purely because its not played very often (plus it has teh added bonus of being gorgeous).

I personally agree with this outlook. We can nurture the past as well (who would want to forget Mozart!?!) but we have to look out for our future by noticing the present. If that makes any sense at all......

DeVore · 15-07-2009 10:37AM

Congrats BSG!

To explain, I'm nearly 40 and took up the piano 8 months ago. I'm not brilliant by any means and all I want to do is enjoy expressing myself musically. This weekend I composed my first ... *thing*. I can honestly say I have thoroughly enjoyed learning the piano, even the hard bits when I thought I would jack it all in. I got past them and it feels great. I even go back and play the pieces that caused me trouble (Moonlight Sonata... I'm looking at you!) simply to feel the sense of accomplishment at having defeated them.

Now I have a piece of music thats mine. Its not great, its pretty basic and its constantly changing (:)) but its mine. And I actually like it!

Screw the exams and grades if thats not what you are after. I'm far too old to need to seek validation of others with bits of paper. I want to play and I want to enjoy it. Happily, I'm doing both. I wouldnt have had a musical bone in my body apart from loving it. Never played nothing before this. If anyone thinks they are too old to learn, they are only fooling themselves and will regret it!

DeV.

banquo · 15-07-2009 05:06PM

Should print this thread and send it to O' Conor.

BigStupidGuy · 16-07-2009 08:08AM

Funny, I can't find a contact e-mail for him anywhere online...

Guess you can post him?

banquo · 16-07-2009 05:18PM

Print it out on the back of a pension slip.

Undergod · 18-08-2009 12:17PM

Update: The Academy is now offering group piano classes for adult students.

banquo · 18-08-2009 12:58PM

Early bird lessons?

funky penguin · 18-08-2009 01:28PM

Group lessons?! Learning an instrument in a group environment is limited at best imo.

ManofMunster · 18-08-2009 11:24PM

think you're being kind there funky. tried group lessons for a while and that was a glorious waste of everyone's time. very much a 'let's maximise income per hour' tactic from music schools.

can't imagine how useless a group piano class might be. does everyone have a piano? how does it even work?

The Mad Hatter · 19-08-2009 07:00PM

Pointless, educatively.

Obviously will be a good money-spinner.

Coriolanus · 01-09-2009 02:21PM

Too many to name, but I'd like to thank everyone in this thread. I've been tossing the idea of starting piano (restarting, apparently I went to lessons for a year when I was 6, damned if I remember it!) and while I hadn't heard Mr O'Conors interview, I'll admit I was quite daunted at the idea.

Seeing so many refute the idea that learning as an adult is impossible/pointless has wonderfully boosted my confidence about the whole thing.

Now to find a tutor.

paulclesham · 12-09-2009 09:23PM

i dont agree with this, I started when i was 13, am now 16 and taking the grade 8 next year. Nobody should be stopped from learning the piano.. whatever the age!

Roisinbunny · 19-06-2010 10:39PM

DeVore wrote: »

Wow... I guess I better give up now then...

Pffffffffff..... I am 39. I started um what, 8 months ago and its been hard but you know what, nothing easy is worth doing.

I'm *loving* it. Yes, its frustrating at times but those times are now less and less frequent and more and more often I find myself swinging over on my office chair to my keyboard to play something I'm trying to learn. I struggle, its true, but also I'm getting a great deal of satisfaction from it. I'm *enjoying* it. So, that was one of my objectives Mr O'Connor, and I'm achieving it.

Hey, I know this thread is a few months old, but I found it as I was googling "too old to start piano?"!

I've been really encouraged by this thread - I always wanted to play the piano, I was fascinated in it from an early age. I was from a BIG one parent family, and although I took lessons for a year at the age of 14, I knew I was asking a lot of my mother to pay for them. I couldn't afford a piano so I had a small keyboard that I practiced on. Hence, I gave up. (My music teacher was a bit of a snob too - she knew I didn't have my own piano and I remember feeling a bit ashamed).

It always stayed with me tho. I adore classical piano music. I did my undergraduate degree in U.L and some of my tutorials were near the music rooms; the piano students were just fantastic- I was fascinated! It was amazing to hear them and I always said when I had the cash, I would buy a piano and take up lessons properly again.

I'm now 30, and finally we just bought our home. So I now have the space and the cash! But I was thinking was I too old? should I give up the fantasy? but this thread has been really uplifting. To all of you pianists, you have an amazing gift to be proud of and I really admire your talent...It must be such a rush to be able to play "fluently":)

I'm off to find a good adult tutor...:D:D:D

funky penguin · 20-06-2010 12:17AM

Roisin, if you have trouble finding one, tell us and we'll try our best to get you one!

Good luck and keep us posted with your progress, this is a fantastic thread!

DeVore · 20-06-2010 07:41AM

I was only thinking about this thread the other day, I've been meaning to come back and give an update.

So, I just bought not one but two Yamaha dgx 630s (of course the next week Yamaha replaced the line with the new 640's but apparently they are only a little different)... plus I'm looking to buy a nice standup piano.

My teacher gave up teaching last year and so I have been self-teaching on and off for a while. That hasnt been so successful, partly because I havent had a moments time but also because I wasnt at the stage to do so. I'm still not but I have a few solutions to that which are working and I'm getting back into the swing of it again now and (thankfully) making some progress.

I dipped my toe into composing (yeah, i like to push things along a bit

) and thats a LOT of fun. I wrote a piece which might yet get used as part of a score for a short film which I'm very proud of but I have a long way to go yet on that to be fair. But composing... yeah, very rewarding. I've stopped for the moment because I came to the conclusion that me and my instrument need to spend some quality time getting to know each other first

So, still going and just about to embark on a major push to get to the next plateau. The new Yamaha arrives next week, i'll record a video again then I think.

So keep at it, I'm having a ball (when I'm not playing the keys with my forehead in frustration).

DeV.

Fyan · 06-07-2010 10:57PM

I agree with John O'Connor, he meant if you really want to stand out. To be a professional pianist, it is a bit late if you start playing piano after an age of 10. Adults beginners are mainly playing for fun not for something like an international competition, right? :rolleyes:

Fyan · 06-07-2010 11:01PM

paulclesham wrote: »

i dont agree with this, I started when i was 13, am now 16 and taking the grade 8 next year. Nobody should be stopped from learning the piano.. whatever the age!

Grade exams are easy to achieve for ppl are not too young so they can stick on the piano stool and just practice the same pieces over and over during the year. But you are still good, impressive! :cool:

DeVore · 07-07-2010 01:06AM

I think the point is that its a little narrow minded to think people only play the piano to really stand out or be a professional. To be dismissive of people who play for other reasons is arrogant and ignorant imho. (I appreciate you havent said that, but he effectively did).

DeV.

Fyan · 07-07-2010 06:15PM

DeVore wrote: »

I think the point is that its a little narrow minded to think people only play the piano to really stand out or be a professional. To be dismissive of people who play for other reasons is arrogant and ignorant imho. (I appreciate you havent said that, but he effectively did).

DeV.

Of course, there are only a few ppl play piano professionally. Take piano as an interest is a big fun and a lot of ppl are enjoying it!

John O'Conor's comments on Adult Music Students

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