€10m for your particular ES

delly · 25-05-2009 01:53PM #1

What with the amount of budget cutting these days, I'm sure the recession will be used as the number one excuse for lack of X,Y or Z in a particular emergency service. Now in saying that, I would imagine many of you are saying that in the height of the Celtic Tiger, even then you still couldn't get X, Y or Z.

So, think of this. You report for duty one day and find a cheque for €10,000,000 waiting. Its a one off windfall which you have to decide how it should be used to benefit the job as whole. Be it a fleet of BMW ARV's or paying the cost of an Air Ambulance for a few years, its your decision and while it doesn't have to be 100% accurate in how its spent, i'd be really curious to see how €10m could benefit society by funding the people who protect and maintain it.

DubMedic · 25-05-2009 02:14PM

delly wrote: »

What with the amount of budget cutting these days, I'm sure the recession will be used as the number one excuse for lack of X,Y or Z in a particular emergency service. Now in saying that, I would imagine many of you are saying that in the height of the Celtic Tiger, even then you still couldn't get X, Y or Z.

So, think of this. You report for duty one day and find a cheque for €10,000,000 waiting. Its a one off windfall which you have to decide how it should be used to benefit the job as whole. Be it a fleet of BMW ARV's or paying the cost of an Air Ambulance for a few years, its your decision and while it doesn't have to be 100% accurate in how its spent, i'd be really curious to see how €10m could benefit society by funding the people who protect and maintain it.

If Possible avoid closures of A+E Departments.
Open more hospitals for minors in rural Ireland to have if they need hospital attention they don't have to travel to Dublin.
Hire new enthusiastic management in HSE/NAS ( After sacking current regime ).
Put money into educating the public into when to call 999 and when not to i.e. when to get a taxi to A + E!! or use the perfectly good car and your perfectly healthy NOK ( Next Of Kin ) to drive you there.
Public CPR Demonstrations.
Ask the actual men and women who provide our Emergency Ambulances what they would like to see!! instead of just putting something out there and expecting the men and women on the ground to agree to it without ever having been consulted on it in the first place!.
More Road Traffic Awareness ( More of those Ads ).
More Gardaí trained to go into schools to deliver Road Safety Campaigns to 4th,5th & 6th year students.
9. Send signs out to every home that someone lives in to put up outside your front door that clearly states your house number, and in the case of not having a number then one that clearly states the name of the house... ( this might seem a little un-realistic but i've heard its a real problem with regards to finding houses when a call comes in of a collapse etc and time is of the essence ).

delly · 26-05-2009 01:33AM

Bravo sir, they are some pretty impressive ideas.

TheNog · 26-05-2009 10:42AM

Driving courses and more of them!!!!!

As DubMedic stated house numbers!!! Unbelieveable how many houses are out there none at all. Makes it alot harder for us to find them.

ScubaDave · 26-05-2009 01:28PM

How much is pepper spray costing?

Id buy it without hesitiation and get the training done lively!

ste88m · 26-05-2009 01:38PM

The pepper spray only costs €250,000 for all members, I'd say the training would cost in the region of double that! Still, it would only use less than 10% of the ten million. It should be bought asap!

TheNog · 26-05-2009 04:19PM

ScubaDave wrote: »

How much is pepper spray costing?

Id buy it without hesitiation and get the training done lively!

ste88m wrote: »

The pepper spray only costs €250,000 for all members, I'd say the training would cost in the region of double that! Still, it would only use less than 10% of the ten million. It should be bought asap!

I have heard we are going to be trained on the Pepper Spray, semi-rigis handcuffs and on another item at the same time so it should keep training costs to a minimum.

Thats what I have heard but have yet to get it confirmed

Hooch · 26-05-2009 04:47PM

TheNog wrote: »

I have heard we are going to be trained on the Pepper Spray, semi-rigis handcuffs and on another item at the same time so it should keep training costs to a minimum.

Thats what I have heard but have yet to get it confirmed

That was the idea but the Public Order instructors said that they could not complete all items in a day (money money money, lots of sub...in and instructors world!!!) and so that idea was shelved. Cant see the rigids coming in before xmas tbh.

ScubaDave · 26-05-2009 04:59PM

TheNog wrote: »

I have heard we are going to be trained on the Pepper Spray, semi-rigis handcuffs and on another item at the same time so it should keep training costs to a minimum.

Thats what I have heard but have yet to get it confirmed

Whats the one other item???

Any back on topic...

Id replace the standard issue vest for all members to a comfortable, equipment carrying protective vest.

Id offer Defib and responder training to all interested members and issue kits to district patrol cars.

Im sure ill think of more...

Hooch · 26-05-2009 05:12PM

ScubaDave wrote: »

Whats the one other item???

Any back on topic...

Id replace the standard issue vest for all members to a comfortable, equipment carrying protective vest.

Id offer Defib and responder training to all interested members and issue kits to district patrol cars.

Im sure ill think of more...

Best too.

Couldnt agree more with both!!

bravestar · 26-05-2009 10:40PM

A load bearing cover for our vests as has already been suggested.

Spit guards/hoods for those nasty bastards who like to spit blood all over you/patrol car.

Leg restraints.

Tasers for members on regular units.

ste88m · 27-05-2009 01:03AM

ScubaDave wrote: »

Whats the one other item???

Any back on topic...

Id replace the standard issue vest for all members to a comfortable, equipment carrying protective vest.

Id offer Defib and responder training to all interested members and issue kits to district patrol cars.

Im sure ill think of more...

Defibrillators are a great idea, each district should have one!!
Did I hear somewhere that they were issued to RSU & that RSU used it a few times? Even if used only once, it proves their worth.

Other ideas though,
Better patrol cars - Minimum 2ltr engine, none of this 1.6ltr/1.8ltr district patrol car crap - that are sold/scrapped as soon as they reach about 100,000km.
Pulse Terminal for all stations (even though its hopeless)
A practical uniform maybe (Too much common sense involved though for AGS managment??)
Mobile Data Terminals for all stations.

TheNog · 27-05-2009 09:02AM

Id use the money to set up Divisional Call Centres where all calls (999 and regular) are taken and distributed to relevant distrcit patrol cars. By doing this we could have public offices open at certain times during the day such as lunch hour and 2-3 hours during the evening.

Another idea and possibly an unpopular one but one Garda per patrol car to cover greater areas of our districts and increased high visibility

Terrontress · 27-05-2009 09:43AM

Would the introduction of postcodes be of benefit to the ES in terms of being able to quickly identify locations and get there with a minimum of fuss?

ste88m · 27-05-2009 11:13AM

TheNog wrote: »

Another idea and possibly an unpopular one but one Garda per patrol car to cover greater areas of our districts and increased high visibility

No, it's not a bad idea in cities where hopefully back-up is only a few minutes away. But from an officer safety point of view it isn't really a good option in the country as 2 cars may have to cover a larger area so back-up is 30 minutes or so away.

It's done a lot in the UK where they single-crew car's during the day & double-crew them at night & it works perfectly ok over there.

TheNog · 27-05-2009 12:05PM

ste88m wrote: »

No, it's not a bad idea in cities where hopefully back-up is only a few minutes away. But from an officer safety point of view it isn't really a good option in the country as 2 cars may have to cover a larger area so back-up is 30 minutes or so away.

It's done a lot in the UK where they single-crew car's during the day & double-crew them at night & it works perfectly ok over there.

It would work a treat during daytime hours. In my district and unit we could have 7 cars instead of 3 and so doubling visibility. Of course we would have to have some personal protective gear first such as Tetra and pepper spray both of which are on the way in.

At nightime however I can see the problems though.

I think its doable but dont think the GRA would agree with me on it.

Hooch · 27-05-2009 12:20PM

TheNog wrote: »

Id use the money to set up Divisional Call Centres where all calls (999 and regular) are taken and distributed to relevant distrcit patrol cars. By doing this we could have public offices open at certain times during the day such as lunch hour and 2-3 hours during the evening.

Another idea and possibly an unpopular one but one Garda per patrol car to cover greater areas of our districts and increased high visibility

The ago old debate!!
In most country station it is only the driver in the district patrol car during daylight. At night should always be two per vehicle!!! Not only GRA rules but its in the garda code (ever moving goal posts that it is).

In my opinion, in a district that takes nearly 40 minutes to cover, no member should be on their own at any point. Violent incidents occur during the day as much as at night. If the members arent there to man the vehicle, i'd much rather ground them than have to answer an assistance call.

TheNog · 27-05-2009 03:30PM

nice guy always wrote: »

In my opinion, in a district that takes nearly 40 minutes to cover, no member should be on their own at any point. Violent incidents occur during the day as much as at night. If the members arent there to man the vehicle, i'd much rather ground them than have to answer an assistance call.

I agree with you on those points above and certainly would not agree to any single car crews if back-up was anymore than 10-15 minutes away during daylight hours.

Just referring to my district I think we could have 7-8 cars all single crewed and with a large district to cover, assistance would be no more than 10-12 minutes away.

Just to reiterate again we would need better personal protection such as the GPS for Tetra to pinpoint a patrol car's location.

If you think about it we could have a better handle on tavelling criminals and traffic incidents etc..

ste88m · 27-05-2009 04:01PM

TheNog wrote: »

Just to reiterate again we would need better personal protection such as the GPS for Tetra to pinpoint a patrol car's location.

If you think about it we could have a better handle on tavelling criminals and traffic incidents etc..

The GPS on tetra would be very handy but it isn't being fitted after The G.R.A objected to it. According to the people from Tetra Ireland (who are doing the training) the Dept. Of Justice would of paid for it and all!!

Hooch · 27-05-2009 04:16PM

ste88m wrote: »

The GPS on tetra would be very handy but it isn't being fitted after The G.R.A objected to it. According to the people from Tetra Ireland (who are doing the training) the Dept. Of Justice would of paid for it and all!!

The problem there was that the GRA didnt want member to be monitored and management couldnt give an undertaking that member wouldnt be monitored.
Would be a great system though. Ambulance Control in Limerick has GPS trackers on Ambos under their control and can guide a crew to an incident location. Great job IMO.

27-05-2009 04:43PM

ste88m wrote: »

The GPS on tetra would be very handy but it isn't being fitted after The G.R.A objected to it. According to the people from Tetra Ireland (who are doing the training) the Dept. Of Justice would of paid for it and all!!

At my training we were told that AGS didn't want to purchase it at the time.

TheNog · 27-05-2009 04:52PM

nice guy always wrote: »

The problem there was that the GRA didnt want member to be monitored and management couldnt give an undertaking that member wouldnt be monitored.
Would be a great system though. Ambulance Control in Limerick has GPS trackers on Ambos under their control and can guide a crew to an incident location. Great job IMO.

See I have a problem with the GRA and managements stance on this. Why cant the GPS be allowed to monitor a member but only when there is a written complaint for whatever reason. I'd have no particular problem with being monitored. In past jobs I was monitored by my superiors as I monitored employees when I was a supervisor

bravestar · 27-05-2009 10:15PM

TheNog wrote: »

It would work a treat during daytime hours. In my district and unit we could have 7 cars instead of 3 and so doubling visibility. Of course we would have to have some personal protective gear first such as Tetra and pepper spray both of which are on the way in.

At nightime however I can see the problems though.

I think its doable but dont think the GRA would agree with me on it.

I dont know man, it might work in some places but I can honestly say everytime I called for urgent assistance it was during the day. 2/3 mins while your surrounded be a bunch of scrotes and trying to save your ass is'nt fun, let alone 10/15 mins. It only takes a minute to get beaten to a pulp or worse. 3 per car is quite regular in my neck of the woods.

Hooch · 28-05-2009 12:18AM

bravestar wrote: »

I dont know man, it might work in some places but I can honestly say everytime I called for urgent assistance it was during the day. 2/3 mins while your surrounded be a bunch of scrotes and trying to save your ass is'nt fun, let alone 10/15 mins. It only takes a minute to get beaten to a pulp or worse. 3 per car is quite regular in my neck of the woods.

I agree with most of above....except for three in a car. Cant agree with that!!

Mike... · 28-05-2009 12:33AM

Has this thread been Hijacked by guards???

Garda cars are all new(ish)

I would provide Air Ambulance services somewhat like the UK,
Motorbike Paramedic roll-out over the country would be a good service too.
Apart from that a service somewhat like westdoc countrywide would be a valuable resource(Although this would be a dedicated doctor service, only dealing with Real medical emergencies, not some waster refusing to blow in a breathalyser and offering a blood test only)

28-05-2009 08:06PM

*mono* wrote: »

Has this thread been Hijacked by guards???

Garda cars are all new(ish)

I would provide Air Ambulance services somewhat like the UK,
Motorbike Paramedic roll-out over the country would be a good service too.
Apart from that a service somewhat like westdoc countrywide would be a valuable resource(Although this would be a dedicated doctor service, only dealing with Real medical emergencies, not some waster refusing to blow in a breathalyser and offering a blood test only)

Welcome *mono*. This thread has not been hijacked but instead gives a good account of who mainly posts in the ES forum. There are prison officers, HSE and DFB members, civil defense personnel and other services but Gardai seem to have the most Representatives on here.

There is a countrywide service for dealing with medical emergencies, it's called the HSE. The provide ambulances countrywide with the exception of Dublin where they provide extra cover to the DFB.

The reason why Westdoc and other services are called out is because that is the requirement of the law. Westdoc is just a GP service (i hope i'm correct here). They operate just like any GP across the country just that they are organised.

And an important note to anybody who thinks that they can refuse a breath test in a station and offer blood instead, you can't. The Gardai make a requirement for you to give a sample of your breath or the make a requirement for you to give blood or urine. If you refuse a breath sample then you fail and are treated as though you have blown in the highest band. Expect to be off the road for four (open to correction on length) years if convicted.

Oh, as for the cars, they may be recent years, but they have covered a higher than normal millage in the time since they have been issued.

Mike... · 02-06-2009 02:24AM

Thanks for clearing that up,
Though there would be a few medical heads posting as well.
The HSE is spending money like it's going out of fashion and there still ain't any results.

ScubaDave · 02-06-2009 10:03PM

Thought of a vital one!

Upgrade PULSE to a web based system whereby it would work QUICKLY when making queries and not leave you waiting 20 mins for vital info!

Hooch · 02-06-2009 10:15PM

*mono* wrote: »

Thanks for clearing that up,
Though there would be a few medical heads posting as well.
The HSE is spending money like it's going out of fashion and there still ain't any results.

There are....even Gardaí are making medical references...see daves post below

ScubaDave wrote: »

Thought of a vital one!

Upgrade PULSE to a web based system whereby it would work QUICKLY when making queries and not leave you waiting 20 mins for vital info!

:D:D:D

FGR · 03-06-2009 07:01AM

It would probably cost less to implement a completely new system/replacement for PULSE rather than trying to revise/'improve' it it again..and again..and again..

delly · 03-06-2009 08:21AM

ForegoneReality wrote: »

It would probably cost less to implement a completely new system/replacement for PULSE rather than trying to revise/'improve' it it again..and again..and again..

Well we're talking only €10m so if you combine that with a Government contract, it would be barely enough to pay the initial research group before anything is even actually bought.

€10m for your particular ES

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