Savage Attack on Dog in D15 Park: Lucy's Tragic Death

gwhiz · 23-05-2009 10:54AM #1

http://www.communityvoice.ie/pages/CV137/CV137n06.htm

I came across this article in my local newspaper yesterday and was sickened and horrified by its contents. I mean WTF... how can this happen? I have two very small dogs and this is where I usually bring them for a walk and couldn't believe what I was reading. I wont be going there again in a hurry. I have friends and who are the owners of german shepherds and my experience with these dogs have only ever been positive. They are a fabulous dog and in my opinion, it is the scumbag owner like the one mentioned in the article that are giving this breed a bad name. I am no dog expert so posted here to get some feedback from the owners of german shepherds or similar breeds and anyone else who is sickened by this article.

bushy... · 23-05-2009 11:21AM

gwhiz wrote: »

http://www.communityvoice.ie/pages/CV137/CV137n06.htm

I came across this article in my local newspaper yesterday and was sickened and horrified by its contents. I mean WTF... how can this happen? I have two very small dogs and this is where I usually bring them for a walk and couldn't believe what I was reading. I wont be going there again in a hurry. I have friends and who are the owners of german shepherds and my experience with these dogs have only ever been positive. They are a fabulous dog and in my opinion, it is the scumbag owner like the one mentioned in the article that are giving this breed a bad name. I am no dog expert so posted here to get some feedback from the owners of german shepherds or similar breeds and anyone else who is sickened by this article.

Just sickened by the cr*p reporter and mysterious bystander giving dangerous advice.

A man in the park shouted to my son to pick her up, 
as the big dog went for her again.

Bit of 1st class advice there , advising a kid to pick up a dog that is being attacked.

So , guy is walking his 2 GSDs without leads ( not a good idea. )

The unfortunate little dog probably wasn't on a lead either and came over to "make friends" in friendly sort of way

One of the GSDs interprets approaching dog as a potential attacker and turns on him.

Bad idea walking any dog in a public place without a lead near other dogs.

jen_23 · 23-05-2009 11:37AM

That is heart breaking esp to happen infront of young children.

My brother owns the most placid german shepherd he is an absolutely fantastic dog he would prob lick any intruders tothe house to death

but her would never ever walk Bruno without a leash anywhere! As you just cannot ever take the chance ever!

I do not understand how ppl can walk such big dogs w/o leash and muzzle as you never know.

Quentinkrisp · 23-05-2009 12:13PM

i'd blame the owners, really..german shepherds are trained for working in rural environments and should NOT be kept in built up areas unless they're under close supervision at all times.
i remember getting attacked by two sheepdogs while cycling through a public green area near where i live, tracked down the owner, who was a total, irresponsible lazy scumbag who vehemently denied owning the two dogs and told me where to go- certainly hope the owner of those two gsd's gets jailed for this; people who are THAT ignorant and stupid don't deserve their freedoms.

Call me Socket · 23-05-2009 03:46PM

That stupid irresponsible git of an owner. It's his fault this happened, not the dog's. He should have had his dogs on a lead and securely muzzled from the time he stepped out of his own property with them.
I've been a GSD owner for 11 years, and frequently my dogs have had off lead exercise- but only in an empty or secluded area....when I see or hear anyone, with or without a dog, mine go on lead. Neala is a dote, very friendly and playful (but she does bark at dogs she doesn't know) and though I know Neala poses no danger to anyone, the people we meet don't know that, and it's not fair on them to be approached by any breed of dog. They know as little about Neala's wonderful temperament as I do about their possible dog phobia.

Aside from obeying the dog regulations, it's just common courtesy to respect others personal space and their right to feel safe when out.

Bushy, Lucy's owner wrote the article. In quite a lot of detail too....even though she wasn't there. And I suspect you're right- Lucy probably wasn't on a lead either.

It's an awful tragedy, and one that no child should have to witness. Unfortunately, the GSDs will suffer the consequences of the lack of due care on their twat of an owner's part.

Top Dog · 23-05-2009 04:21PM

bushy... wrote: »

Just sickened by the cr*p reporter and mysterious bystander giving dangerous advice.

Its written by the emotionally charged mother so you'd forgive her a little for the content. Wouldn't forgive whatever muppet approved it for print though with the glaring inaccuracies and bad advice in it. Its a touch sensationalist to me. :mad:

Banned dogs for a start? No such thing in this country! I've re-read the article twice now, and I can see that she's referring to the dogs that aren't permitted access to the park, and maybe I'm a touch sensitive about the wording because of having owned a Restricted Breed, but I think the editor/printer should have at least attempted to word it a bit better. Probably just wishful thinking on my part though.

While I do agree that it was irresponsible in the extreme for a GSD owner to have 2 dogs off-lead in a public place when there were other people/dogs using the facilities, I would also leave some of the blame at the feet of the mother. I don't mean to sound harsh or callous, but letting a 12 year old out to walk on their own with a dog is highly irresponsible to me. She says in the article that she now feels she has a responsibility to do something - she had that responsibility when she decided to let the child out on his own with the dog. Closing the gate after the horse has already bolted maybe? What if it was a child? Eh, it wasn't. And her child was there and didn't get attacked himself so she's kind of eliminated that point herself before she even asked it.

Definitely agree about the bystander giving dangerous advice - I just hope that no-one reads that and walks away thinking that picking a dog up thats being attacked is the proper way to deal with a situation.

dbrock · 23-05-2009 04:55PM

personally i recon no dog should be of the lead while out, as we all know any dog can turn nasty at any time, really sad for the kids

Call me Socket · 23-05-2009 05:35PM

Top Dog wrote: »

While I do agree that it was irresponsible in the extreme for a GSD owner to have 2 dogs off-lead in a public place when there were other people/dogs using the facilities, I would also leave some of the blame at the feet of the mother. I don't mean to sound harsh or callous, but letting a 12 year old out to walk on their own with a dog is highly irresponsible to me.

Completely agree with that Rob....I toyed with saying that in my post but decided I didn't have the guts!:D
Having said that, I do allow my 13 and 10 year olds bring Sitka out around the neighbourhood together about once a week, they know not to let him off lead and not to leave the neighbourhood. He's excellent on the lead and takes no notice whatsoever of anything (it's only at home he's an antichrist!) And they know to come back in if they spot a loose dog. They're within my sights and I'm within calling distance and they're only out for 10 minutes....with our neighbourhood being a quiet cul-de-sac and with us being the only dog owners here up until recently and the kids being highly dog responsible- it works for us for the time being. Still, I know it's not ideal...

bigpinkelephant · 23-05-2009 09:33PM

This is a really sad story. I know exactly how the owner feels, I had a similar experience in my own garden. Of course, the owner gave me the usual "Oh he wouldn't touch a fly, he's sooooo gentle" etc, while my vet's bills said something slightly different.

I hope the dog's owner gets his comeuppance, had he had the dogs muzzled and on a leash like they are supposed to be, this wouldn't have happened. I wonder has the dog done anything similar before? Granted, any dog can be vicious (we've all seen the little ankle snappers that seem to take out their small man syndrome on everyone else :cool:), but this owner has left himself particularly open. I can't believe he just walked away.

iguana · 23-05-2009 09:46PM

Call me Socket wrote: »

I've been a GSD owner for 11 years, and frequently my dogs have had off lead exercise- but only in an empty or secluded area....when I see or hear anyone, with or without a dog, mine go on lead.

I'm not trying to be cheeky but apart from the law why would you do this? In London it's perfectly acceptable to walk most dogs off lead in about 95% of parks. And the majority of time there are no problems. Yes, you get really bad owners, and I've had my fair share of experience with them, but most of the time it's just fine.

The dogs learn from a very young age about meeting other dogs. They learn how to read dog body language and they know when another dog wants to play, when it's feeling stand-offish, when it's skittish and when it's best to give it a wide berth. It's only through being allowed to interact with other dogs that dogs will learn these important social lessons. And I don't believe they will learn it properly on a lead, as the dog knows that, for the most part, different rules apply when it is on lead.

Just today we were walking one of our dogs in our local park and we came upon a dog walker with two large Dobermen and a GSD. The dogs all checked for friendliness and then had a play together. My dog is a springer spaniel and he's small for his breed, so he was a little titch compared to the other three. But the four of them all played well and had a good time. Dogs are great at reading body language, if they have the chance to learn they know when other people or dogs want them around and when they don't. On the other hand if every time the encounter another dog they are put on a lead they can assume that other dogs are problematic.

Sorry to go on, but comments about how dogs should always be on lead drive me crazy. Many dog breeds need off lead exercise or they can become frustrated, which can lead to aggression. They will also miss out on valuable socialisation. I find it Ireland to be a country of two extremes when it comes to dog ownership. On the one hand you have hoards of people who find it perfectly ok to just let their dog off for a wander alone.

And on the other is a large group of people who think dogs must be kept on a lead and away from other dogs all the time. It's quite honestly the number one thing I'm dreading most if I ever come back to Ireland.

Top Dog · 24-05-2009 01:49AM

iguana wrote: »

I'm not trying to be cheeky but apart from the law why would you do this? In London it's perfectly acceptable to walk most dogs off lead in about 95% of parks. And the majority of time there are no problems. Yes, you get really bad owners, and I've had my fair share of experience with them, but most of the time it's just fine.

I find it Ireland to be a country of two extremes when it comes to dog ownership. On the one hand you have hoards of people who find it perfectly ok to just let their dog off for a wander alone. And on the other is a large group of people who think dogs must be kept on a lead and away from other dogs all the time. It's quite honestly the number one thing I'm dreading most if I ever come back to Ireland.

Its exactly BECAUSE of the law that (responsible) owners of dogs like GSD's, Rotties and the rest keep their dogs on lead when there's others about. Ireland is a nation of begrudgers and all it takes is one of them to see you with your restricted breed off the lead in public, make a call to the warden, and your dog is taken leaving you without a foot to stand on.

Maybe in the UK they take a more common-sense approach, but over here they certainly don't.

As for your observation about the two classes of dog owner - very simple. You have those that don't give a damn (dogs loose roaming about unsupervised), and then you have those who care an awful lot about their dogs and do everything they can to protect them and ensure they have long healthy lives. This includes protecting them from the stupid breed specific legislation that's been forced on us over here. Simple enough really.

BlackCat2008 · 24-05-2009 03:11AM

I love GSD and have had many over the years, only ever had one with a problem he use to nip at my mothers ankle when she hung out the washing but he was just a big softy really.

I have to agree with topdog, no child should be left un a companied outside with any dog, age, breed or size let alone wondering a big park on his own, my oldest is 11 and the park is just outside the door he is not aloud in it alone nor take the dogs out by himself as there is always someone with their dog of lead in the park, one idiot even closed the gates of the play ground to let his rottie of while childern were still playing in it and when he was told of for it by another dog walker he throw a ton of abuse at them then scarppered when they said they were calling the police.

The only thing you tell people about situations like this is you control the situation you put yourself, kids and animals in, and in this one she choose to allow a child to care for a dog who was prey to a larger dog.

And thats for the moran who told the child to pick the dog up while it was being attacked ????? were do you start with that one.

I hope the scumbag who was so stupid as to let his GSD's of the lead gets sorted with more than a slap on the wrist for being brain dead, the best dog trainers in the world will tell you that more than one dog, on or of lead, with or with out an owner is a pack. As I have three at the minute I'm always on guard when being approched by other dogs that if one has ago the others could join in just to protect his friend or pack mentallity.

I'm sorry to hear the child had to see such a thing and my heart go's out to him as this is something that can scare a child for live, RIP little Lucy.

Call me Socket · 24-05-2009 09:57PM

Hi Iguana,
I don't think for a second you're being 'cheeky'!!:)

iguana wrote: »

I'm not trying to be cheeky but apart from the law why would you do this? In London it's perfectly acceptable to walk most dogs off lead in about 95% of parks.

As it happens- I hate that the law and the media, and a lot of ignorance (even among other dog owners), has forced a ridiculous, generalised, and plain wrong expectation of GSD temperament on a breed that has conveniently been forgotten as being reknowned for saving lives, preventing drug trafficking, and assisting the less abled. I don't pop the lead on my dogs just cos it's the law....I do it because the park that I sometimes bring them to is an open public park, not a dogpark, and it's used by non doggy people passing through from a to b, children and young teenagers scream and embrace each other when any or all of the dogs run towards them, mothers with buggies turn and walk back the way they came rather than have to pass us out, couples give out to me for having my dog/s running loose, and other dog owners (with their dogs on or off lead), try to hit my lot with the sticks they carry if they go to greet the other dogs:mad:
That's mostly what used to happen when I was of the naive assumption that others would see my dogs the same way I see them- as loving, playful, nosey-parkers. After a while I reluctantly accepted that putting the leads on them was the respectful thing to do for the people that are afraid of dogs, and the sensible thing to doto keep my dogs safe from harm.

iguana wrote: »

Sorry to go on, but comments about how dogs should always be on lead drive me crazy. Many dog breeds need off lead exercise

My lot get a huge amount of off lead exercise. We're lucky that we sometimes have the use a private sports field that's fully enclosed, an all weather pitch that's only rarely used by others and open 24/7, a riverbank walk that's only ever used by dog owners with some cop on!, and forest walks and wooded areas with lakes... The leads go on the dogs in the house, and when we get to where we're going they're taken off. We don't use the park much simply because the dogs might have 3 minutes off lead and someone turns up and that's the end of that til they're gone.

We had a GSD girl who died almost 2 years ago, and while she was with us we had 8 years of the disapproving looks and over reactions of verbally abusive gobsheens who thought we'd adopted a werewolf. Xena was an incredibly placid and well behaved dog, and the pleasure of having her in our lives far outweighed the negativity that surrounds a lot of GSD owners in this backward country of ours. In her 11 years of life, not once did she wear a muzzle. There's nobody enforcing that regulation down here in Clare. And it was never mentioned to us.....because most people didn't even know that it was the law.

6 months ago we got Neala, and in the nearly 2 years since Xena, it seems that people have become either more aware of the laws, or more neurotic about seeing a GSD off lead. So I'll soon be getting a canny collar so that I can at least appear to be a responsible owner by 'securely muzzling' my GSD. I'm sick to my eye teeth of people hurrying their dogs away or hurling abuse at me when we're in a public place. I'm not going to take the risk of having a complaint filed against us and drawing the attention of the Gardai or Dog Warden, because that will definitely put an end to off lead exercise.(On a side note- how the feic is anyone supposed to be able to adequately socialise a happy and playful pup with that kind of attitude??)

So yeah, on the rare occasion we're in the park- the leads go on if anyone turns up. For the other 9 out of 10 days the dogs have their freedom in spacious areas.

Sorry- I went on a bit there myself, but I get so peeved off just thinking about the whole stupid Restricted Breeds regulations and how it negatively affects the responsible owners and has zero impact on the owners who don't give a hoot.

~Thalia~ · 25-05-2009 08:41AM

I own a German Shepherd. She is never off lead outside our yard. She is an absolute pet but I always keep her on lead for her own saftey as much as anyone else's.

This is a tragic story. The dogs should have been on leads. A 12 year old should not be on his own walking any type of dog.

I was in maxi zoo on Saturday in Limerick and as I walked in with my dog there was a terrier with his owners at the cash desk, I let my dog over to say hello and the terrier was straining for a sniff too. Next thing you know terrier nearly took the face off my shep. Only for I pulled her back so fast she would have had a nasty bite on her face. I was horrified, shortly before we left we met a lovely little CKC with his owner. Same hello ritual ensued and lady behind the counter said "A look a new friend for my shep" to which the CKC owner replied "Lunch more like". I was disgusted so you see it's all to do with perception.

ALL dogs of ALL breeds should be on lead unless they are trained to a standard where they will return to their OWNER without question.

Both owners share some reesponsibility in thie awful story. THe shep owner for having his dogs off lead and Lucy's owner for also having the dog off lead and being walked by a CHILD.

Noopti · 25-05-2009 09:00AM

Horrible story. A families pet killed because of the irresponsibility of the other dogs owner.

I am always wary when my fiancee takes our dogs for walks in the park. I know she knows what she is doing, but I always have this tought in the back of my mind that there are so many irresponsible dog owners out there who have no idea how to handle certain dog breeds.
Whenever we are walking ours and we are come towards a person also walking their dog(s) I seem to instinctively go through this appraisel of the owners, the dog and how they are being handled. It is only then that I decide whether to keep distance between our dogs or allow them to say hello.

I also feel so sorry for the owners of certain breeds. Their reputation being tarnished because of idiots who haven't a clue what they are doing. I can just imagine what it must be like for these people when they are walking their dogs....the looks they get, people crossing the road and not allowing their own dogs to go over and say hello. I would be gutted if people thought my dogs were dangerous and avoided them. A quick example: we were walking our two in the park and there was an elderly man coming towards us with two dogs. I instantly recognised one of them as an amazing looking Ridgeback (I think it was actually a cross, because if was much bigger and bulkier then a normal Ridgeback).
Anyway, it was the most beautiful animal, and immacuately trained. Our Marley, being a hyper pup was all over him trying to play - licking his face etc. I told Marley to sit and the old man kept saying "He is ok, don't worry, don't worry". He obviously thought I might worry in case the Ridgeback was "vicious". I felt sorry for the owner and his dog....because he obviously gets some bad reactions when walking his amazing pet.

animalcrazy · 25-05-2009 04:40PM

As far as I know it's illegal to walk your dog in public without a lead fullstop? We had the local dog warden in and he said it was and was telling us a story about him walking up to a lady and telling her she needed to put her dogs on a lead, she got cheeky with him so he took her dogs off her and she ended up in a gardai car.

Call me Socket · 25-05-2009 06:54PM

No it's not illegal... by law your dog must be under control, and if your dog is obedient and has 100% recall no matter what the suituation, then it is under the owner's control.
The warden you spke with sounds like a power freak and probably told you that story for scaremongering purposes.

IvySlayer · 25-05-2009 09:05PM

In some parks county councils have deemed it illegal. My dog was off the lead in my park, it's nice for dogs to have that freedom. However if a child or another dog came she'd be straight back on it.

I love German Shepards. Some are dangerous, some are like lambs. It comes down to the owner really. This story is so sad. I must question why a 12 year old was allowed to walk to the park with another, younger child, and a dog.

Banning certain dogs is just stupid. Proper dog owners know best, when to keep them on lead, when to take them off, and train the dog to stay within a few feet of you. If my dog ran off too far, back on lead, she learned to keep up after that.

Perhaps enforcing leads on dogs on pathways would be a solution, and they can be off in green areas?

Call me Socket · 25-05-2009 09:35PM

IvySlayer wrote: »

In some parks county councils have deemed it illegal.

The owners of the park can apply whatever rules of its use that they like, the same way you can apply a 'No children' rule to your garden if you own it. It would be a by-law that the County Council passed in relation to a particular property that they own. But the general regulations regarding dogs in any other public place is that they must be 'under control'....not necessarily on a lead. (with the exception of the Restricted Breeds list, which has it own set of regulations seperate to the Control of Dogs Act.)

emsy g · 25-05-2009 09:43PM

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killer dogs.....grrrr savaging those sticks and eating small kids all over the place......oh no wait....i'm not a scumbag knacker who can't be arsed caring for and loving my animals,maybe that's why they AREN'T eating little babies....

BeauZak · 25-05-2009 10:57PM

What breed was poor little Lucy? She is only a little puppy in those photos but she was 3 when killed.

The owner of those dogs would have known there were issues, its very sad when the warning signs are ignored and a death happens as a result

In Ireland we have restricted breeds list. In the UK a Danerous dogs act. Legislation does not prevent dog bites. Education and investment in the promotion of responsible dog ownership would be far more effective. Also enforcement of the current control of dogs act.

UK study into mammalian bites in the A&E dept., and the effectiveness of Dog Legislation in preventing against animal attacks. There is a part 1 and part 2. Interesting reading:
http://www.dogtrainingireland.ie/documents/klaussen1.pdf
http://www.dogtrainingireland.ie/documents/klaussen2.pdf

If the owners of the GSD's had of been conforming to the current control of dogs act (dogs on lead and muzzled) then Lucy would be still alive BUT that is presuming the dogs were GSD's as they are frequently misidentified.

Savage Attack on Dog in D15 Park: Lucy's Tragic Death

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