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Is the cost of living really that high in 2009 ?

  • 19-05-2009 01:20PM
    #1
    jimmmy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭


    An add on the tv made me wonder about the cost of living versus that say 15 years ago.( before the celtic tiger took off, benchmarking etc). How much would an average weeks gross wages * buy now, compared to say 15 years ago.

    Now it would buy 966 McDonalds hamburgers.....I wonder how many hamburgers would an average weeks gross wages have bought say 15 years ago ?

    It would need the equivalent of 26 weeks average gross salary to buy a new medium-large car eg Ford Mondeo ....I wonder how many weeks 15 years ago ?

    Now one weeks average gross salary would buy about 920 litres of petrol...how much would it have bought 15 years ago?

    Now one weeks average gross salary would buy approx 1165 litres of milk...do't think it would have bought that many 15 years ago.

    Now one weeks average gross salary would buy a return flight to Australia, with a continental holiday thrown in.....do't think it would have bought that 15 years ago.

    Maybe we are not as badly off as we think....

    *For an average weeks wage, I am using the C.S.O. statistic for the average public sector weekly wage. You may of course use the average weekly wage in your own field to compare how well off you are now compared to say what your then average weekly wage would have bought 15 years ago. This is not a public sector bashing thread, heavens no : I am just using the c.s.o. statistic for their wages, as they would dispute the wages for private sector, and they would say they are higher if anything;)


«134

Comments

  • #2
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    You're probably a bit off in your figures. Assuming 1 litre of milk is one euro, then the average public sector gross wage will pick you up 949 litres of milk.

    For the rest the country, the average gross weekly wage is closer to 625 litres of milk.


  • #3
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    Still nothing new from jimmmy: public sector bashing, using the same old stuff.

    Have electrons ever been disturbed for less useful purpose?


  • #4
    jimmmy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭jimmmy


    seamus wrote: »
    You're probably a bit off in your figures. Assuming 1 litre of milk is one euro, then the average public sector gross wage will pick you up 949 litres of milk.

    Thanks for that. The major supermarkets are selling their own brand milk @ € 1.65 for 2 litres, therefore € 966 would buy 1165 litres or thereabouts. However, I am open to correction. Its a fun exercise, as definitely 30 or 40 or 80 years ago people could not have bought so much milk for an average weeks wages.
    seamus wrote: »
    For the rest the country, the average gross weekly wage is closer to 625 litres of milk.

    I agree most people in the country do not make 966 gross per week ; I merely picked the average public sector wage, as disclosed by the central statistics office, which is averaged from more than 300,000 people spread throughout the country. The C.S.O. will not divulge, as far as I can find out anyway, average private sector wage in the country, so by using the € 966 figure at least its using a "benchmark" which is known.


  • #5
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,511 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    but how can you buy products from a gross salary?
    are the government giving you back your PAYE & PRSI to buy milk.....i dont think so.

    figures are way off in your calculations im afraid :rolleyes:


  • #6
    ixoy
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 18,062 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    kceire wrote: »
    but how can you buy products from a gross salary?
    are the government giving you back your PAYE & PRSI to buy milk.....i dont think so.
    Milk can be purchased as tax relief similiar to tax saver tickets and pension contributions. It's under the 'Milking It' initative launched in response to threads like this :)


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  • #7
    jimmmy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭jimmmy


    kceire wrote: »
    but how can you buy products from a gross salary?
    you cannot...thats why for the point of the exercise a sum equivalent to a weeks gross salary is used.
    Everyone net salary may vary, depending on marital status, tax free exemptions etc. Its not as if taxation is much higher now than years ago anyway. Simpler just to use gross average wage now ( compared to gross average wage 15 years ago ) and see what it buys then and now.


  • #8
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    jimmmy wrote: »
    Thanks for that. The major supermarkets are selling their own brand milk @ € 1.65 for 2 litres, therefore € 966 would buy 1165 litres or thereabouts. However, I am open to correction. Its a fun exercise, as definitely 30 or 40 or 80 years ago people could not have bought so much milk for an average weeks wages.
    That's perhaps true. However 20 years ago farmers were paid the same amount yearly for their milk and beef as they are now. What affect has this had on their cost of living do you think?


  • #9
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    I think it is a good idea by jimmy, and instead of bickering on his views on the public sector and the exact price of milk (jimmys figure is the rate I buy it at btw), maybe we should simply compare 2 people in the same job years apart.

    I would say we have overall improved. Not that 1165 litres of milk is that useful :)


  • #10
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    jimmy tends not to do any research, nor generate new ideas.

    From his current favourite thread: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=60194336&postcount=253


  • #11
    grahamo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 761 ✭✭✭grahamo


    in 1994 I could buy a pint of lager for £1.75. Now its €4.50
    According to the international living website Ireland gets a big fat ZERO out of a 100 in the cost of living section.
    http://www.il-ireland.com/il/qofl2008/?field=cost-of-living#Ireland


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  • #12
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,511 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    turgon wrote: »
    I think it is a good idea by jimmy, and instead of bickering on his views on the public sector and the exact price of milk (jimmys figure is the rate I buy it at btw), maybe we should simply compare 2 people in the same job years apart.

    I would say we have overall improved. Not that 1165 litres of milk is that useful :)

    but he is not, he is just expanding another thread where he lost an argument into another thread, hence why people think he is a troll. what figure is he using, why doesnt he use an average private sector wage on €1000 to see what he can buy?????

    why use a gros figure, when all anybody sees is a nett figure????
    just another trolling Public Sector V Private sector thread looking for an argument.


    my car insurance has gone up (no claims)
    my house insurance has gone up (no claims)
    my VHI is gone up
    mytax payments have gone up
    my mortgage has dropped with the intrest rates
    my shopping bill has slightly dropped but no by much tbh

    so all in all im in the same situation i was in a few years ago, i have no noticeable extra money in my pocket at the moment, infact i have less than i had 2 years ago. but in all honesty, im lucky im still working, im very busy in work and im happy to be earning a wage.


  • #13
    jimmmy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭jimmmy


    grahamo wrote: »
    in 1994 I could buy a pint of lager for €1.75. Now its €4.50

    Depend where you buy it. While some pubs sometimes charged the equivalent of 2 euro a pint in the mid nineties, now you can get 20 cans in a supermarket for less than 20 euro. Like comparing apples and oranges. Thats why in my original post I tried to compare like with like. 26 years ago paying nearly the same for a McDonalds hamburger as it is now. Hiring a film from Xtravision can be done for the same as 15 years ago. A pair of jeans in Dunnes ( for working around the house in etc ) is cheaper than 15 years ago. I see bicycles in shops now which are cheaper than I could find any make of bicycle for 25 years ago. Radios and CD players have come down in price too, as has most electronics.


  • #14
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,968 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    "Burger" indexes are pretty much worthless esp in a country where the average price of a house is 4-5 times that of 1994.


  • #15
    Irlbo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 347 ✭✭Irlbo


    I have to say even though the media would have you believe the world is ending due to the recession,Ive never had it so good,and I dont even have a high paying job( I got a pay cut recently but it not too bad),I rent a 3 bedroom house,have a decent car,always food in the fridge,kids are well kept and happy,missus stays at home top mind them,always have afew bob handy for a holiday and the odd pint,is it really that bad,I remember the early 90s when buying a big mac was a treat:D


  • #16
    grahamo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 761 ✭✭✭grahamo


    jimmmy wrote: »
    Depend where you buy it. While some pubs sometimes charged the equivalent of 2 euro a pint in the mid nineties, now you can get 20 cans in a supermarket for less than 20 euro. Like comparing apples and oranges. Thats why in my original post I tried to compare like with like. 26 years ago paying nearly the same for a McDonalds hamburger as it is now. Hiring a film from Xtravision can be done for the same as 15 years ago. A pair of jeans in Dunnes ( for working around the house in etc ) is cheaper than 15 years ago. I see bicycles in shops now which are cheaper than I could find any make of bicycle for 25 years ago. Radios and CD players have come down in price too, as has most electronics.

    Yes Jimmmy but the price of milk differs between different shops also.
    The reason I used the price of a pint in a pub as an example is I know how much a pint cost in 1994. I haven't got a clue how much milk cost in 1994 and I doubt if anyone else does either.


  • #17
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    If you take CSO figures, then the cost of food in general is about 37% more expensive than it was in 1996. So if a litre of milk is €1 today, then it was likely around 73c (55p) in 1996.

    Of course, the price of individual items doesn't mean all that much because some items change a lot, whereas others (such as milk) don't change much at all.

    If you consider that the average industrial weekly wage was £240 (€304) in 1996 versus €625 last year, then the price of a litre of milk has fallen by nearly 30% in real terms between 1996 and 2008.

    If you use the same measure with house prices, they were nearly 60% more expensive in real terms in January 2008 than they were in 1996.


  • #18
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,968 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    If you could live on hard drives then you'd be laughing.


  • #19
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    seamus wrote: »
    If you take CSO figures, then the cost of food in general is about 37% more expensive than it was in 1996. So if a litre of milk is €1 today, then it was likely around 73c (55p) in 1996.

    Of course, the price of individual items doesn't mean all that much because some items change a lot, whereas others (such as milk) don't change much at all.

    If you consider that the average industrial weekly wage was £240 (€304) in 1996 versus €625 last year, then the price of a litre of milk has fallen by nearly 30% in real terms between 1996 and 2008.

    If you use the same measure with house prices, they were nearly 60% more expensive in real terms in January 2008 than they were in 1996.

    Its probably worth noting too that Tesco have initiated a bit of a price war with milk recently, and have slashed prices in an effort to keep business here rather than going north (where their even cheaper competitors are getting the business) so comparing prices from right now as the OP has done is not giving a true account of the situation over the past 15 years, since even a month ago milk (to continue his example) was dearer.


  • #20
    seanybiker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,898 ✭✭✭✭seanybiker


    I dont find the cost of living that bad to be honest. Last day maybe two days before pay day I might have maybe 10 left, sometimes maybe 2yoyos but over all its not that bad. I only buy what I need and if I have anything left ill get a few cans.


  • #21
    jimmmy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭jimmmy


    brianthebard wrote: »
    Its probably worth noting too that Tesco have initiated a bit of a price war with milk recently, and have slashed prices in an effort to keep business here rather than going north (where their even cheaper competitors are getting the business) so comparing prices from right now as the OP has done is not giving a true account of the situation over the past 15 years, since even a month ago milk (to continue his example) was dearer.

    I think very little ; possibly 5 or ten cents at most. I think most own brand milk here in the Republic has hovered around 1.65 euro for 2 litres over the last year or so.

    The price of a pint is a bit misleading, as it can vary so much from city to country, from drink to drink, from hotel to pub etc.

    Certainly clothes, cars, electronics, food, consumer items, white goods, bicycles, toys, petrol, holidays, etc do not seem to have gone up as much as wages over the last 15 ( or 25 for that matter ) years. The fact that savings are now at an all time high reflects this.


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  • #22
    InFront
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,698 ✭✭✭InFront


    I think it's about time we started seeing how well a lot of people on the average industrail wage have it at the moment. The ESRI outlined recently that the effect of the Government’s budgetary policy has been to increase the incomes of the poorest fifth of the population by 5 per cent while cutting the top fifth by close to 10 per cent. Meanwhile the cost of living, renting and repaying mortgages are falling.

    I am a recent college graduate and am about to enter a career with a generous income, have just moved into an apartment where a friend and I were able to negotiate some very reasonable rent by Dublin standards, the cost of essential items like food and energy are falling (significantly in the latter case) and the cost of non essential items like eating out and clothes are also down to a noticeable extent. Ultimately of course this kind of chronic deflation is a bad thing, butuntil things pick up again, then instead of moaning about everything maybe people - really those in employment without mortgages I guess - should start to realise how lucky they have it right now. When inflation starts you can have something new to grumble about.

    Please note, I'm not talking about families on low incomes, those in mortgage arrears or negative equity or the unemployed. Just young single professionals without commitments, mainly.


  • #23
    eamonnm79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 459 ✭✭eamonnm79


    brianthebard wrote: »
    That's perhaps true. However 20 years ago farmers were paid the same amount yearly for their milk and beef as they are now. What affect has this had on their cost of living do you think?

    But they get bigger cheques from brussels now!


  • #24
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    kceire wrote: »
    my car insurance has gone up (no claims)
    my house insurance has gone up (no claims)
    mytax payments have gone up
    + 1

    my rent has gone up
    petrol is creeping back up again and talk of possible bin charges to increase.

    To be honest (speaking for myself) I'm really no better off from this time last year, only bonus for me is the savings I make with the weekly shop up north.


  • #25
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,007 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    Cost of public transport has also gone up so all transport costs are up whether you own a car or not.

    Another argument for privatising public transport IMO since our current system isn't working.

    Being held to ransom by the state for their monopoly on public transport if you have to use it. Given declining numbers on Dublin Bus service, the only people using are those that can't afford a car so holding the poorest in society to ransom to pay for their loss making, unpopular, unreliable service.

    Irish rail are even charging for parking your car in their car park now.


  • #26
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,316 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    hellboy99 wrote: »
    + 1

    my rent has gone up

    Why? Landlords should be reducing not increasing rents now!

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #27
    misty76
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 309 ✭✭misty76


    I find things better at the moment with my rent gone down and i also changed over to bord gais for esb and excellent sale's for shoes and clothes and bargain food prices etc..

    Also my friend bought a bargain house and car this month.. I think those most affected are those with big debts, mortgages and kids.. and obviously those who have lost their jobs..

    The pubs and nightclubs in dublin are still doing well and town is always packed with shoppers most days..

    Suppose its like everything there's too sides to every story:rolleyes:


  • #28
    jimmmy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭jimmmy


    InFront wrote: »
    I think it's about time we started seeing how well a lot of people on the average industrail wage have it at the moment.


    True enough. I was looking in the papers at the cost of radios and dvd players recently, and noticed how cheap they have become....not to mention holidays. Where else in the world can average paid person ( say a public servant on the statistically paid average ) buy with the equivalent of one weeks gross salary
    966 McDonalds hamburgers
    or approx 1165 litres of milk
    or a short holiday around the world ?

    At no other time in history or anywhere else in the world was this possible. At least Ireland will get an entry in the Guinness book of records 2010 for something.


  • #29
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,007 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    lol the cost of DVD players has been peanuts for years and is hardly a measure for the cost of living nor is McDonalds Eurosaver menu FFS.

    Need to measure the cost of the essentials not these luxury items. So some crap luxury items don't cost a lot. DVD players are obsolete or will be shortly and McDonalds food provides little nutrition.


  • #30
    cavedave
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,164 ✭✭✭cavedave


    There is only one comparison across time that makes any sense. This one. Which seems to have stayed in the 140's. :D


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  • #31
    jimmmy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭jimmmy


    thebman wrote: »
    lol the cost of DVD players has been peanuts for years and is hardly a measure for the cost of living nor is McDonalds Eurosaver menu FFS.
    For your information, DVD players have come down in price. Even video recorders before that...I remember in the eighties and nineties they were much much more. Even a humble radio ......something which would cost 40 euro now would have cost 100 pounds 20 years ago.
    A McDonalds hamburger was about 70 pence in 1980 ....the equivalent of an hours work ( gross pay ) in a shop for most basic staff ( like who would be on the minimum wage now ). A public servant ( on the average public sector wage ) could buy something like 28 McDonalds hamburgers for his hours work ( gross pay ) now.


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