Hooked - amateur's guide to golf courses in Ireland

Kevinmarkham · 04-05-2009 09:33PM

[quote=BrianD3;[URL="javascript:void(0)"]60102395[/URL]]Picked up my copy of "Hooked" today. Very good book, for the courses I'm familiar with I fully agree with the comments and ratings.

I was pleased to see that you gave glowing praise to Rathcore GC in Meath, that is one of my favourites.

Something I noticed is Donegal GC (Murvagh) gets a score of 94 yet doesn't appear in the list of top ten links courses while other links courses with the same or lower scores do. A mistake or am I misunderstanding the rating system?

Book is well worth buying anyway.[/quote]

I wondered if someone would pick up on that. The same is true of the parkland courses. The Top Tens are my favourite courses and therefore, to some degree, ignore the ratings. There's a course in Lurgan, called Silverwood, and I almost included it in my top ten parklands (Rathcore was close too). If you went and played it you'd think I was mad (as many people already do for my praise of Scrabo) because it's poor quality. As for Murvagh, I loved the place and it's a great experience but there are others that pushed it out of the top ten.
K
http://golfcoursesireland.blogspot.com/

stockdam · 05-05-2009 09:33AM

Praise for Scrabo?

Play it several times and the initial gloss may wear off.

Ok so it's not a bad course but the mess of the cross-over holes (1st and 3rd) can be frustrating when the course is full as it becomes a bottleneck.

Then there's the unkind bounces that take a good drive and kick the ball sideways into a gorse bush (lost ball).

It's a nice course on a nice day but most locals wouldn't rate it in the top 20 courses up here.

madds · 05-05-2009 11:29AM

Kevinmarkham wrote: »

I saw it in Easons yesterday (Dundrum) or you can buy it from the www.collinspress.ie website. Some bookshops can take their time putting the book out on the shelves.

Went looking for the book in Eason's on Manor Mills Maynooth yesterday but couldn't find any copies. Will order from the web.

PhilipMarlowe · 05-05-2009 02:21PM

Richard Finch won the 2008 Irish Open by the way, not Ross Fisher (in the adare review)

conman · 05-05-2009 06:36PM

just recieved my copy in the post

Kevinmarkham · 05-05-2009 08:55PM

[quote=Licksy;[URL="javascript:void(0)"][/url][URL="javascript:void(0)"]60110844[/URL]]Richard Finch won the 2008 Irish Open by the way, not Ross Fisher (in the adare review)

[/quote]

Well there's a monumental cock-up. Thanks Licksy. I double-checked it too! Still, I guess Ross Fisher will be delighted to hear he won it.

conman · 05-05-2009 09:09PM

have to agree kevin with what you said about Cavan Golf club,
the 13,14,15 are alien to the course and not any fun playing...
thing is, the 3 holes that existed before that were great.. :-/

the old 8th was a par 3 downhill (the old raised green is tucked in the corner beside the 7th green), the old 13th used to go from beside the 1st tee box but in the opposite direction straight over the hill and through the driving range area, and the 14th was from the bottom of the hill (near where an average driver would land their ball on the new 14th... it pointed in the same direction as the new 14th) but the green was down near where that little pond has been built into dogleg the 15th.. they were lovely holes, gone a fair few years now, but some of my favs.

Kevinmarkham · 05-05-2009 09:15PM

[quote=stockdam;[URL="javascript:void(0)"]60107067[/URL]]Praise for Scrabo?

Play it several times and the initial gloss may wear off.

Ok so it's not a bad course but the mess of the cross-over holes (1st and 3rd) can be frustrating when the course is full as it becomes a bottleneck.

Then there's the unkind bounces that take a good drive and kick the ball sideways into a gorse bush (lost ball).

It's a nice course on a nice day but most locals wouldn't rate it in the top 20 courses up here.[/quote]

Stockdam, you have no idea the grief I've been given about Scrabo. It's violent and cramped (the 1st and 3rd cross-over is the easy one) and unfair and the gorse seems to be extra sharp, but I still think it's amazing. And its location is dynamite. I'm sure you're right about the initial gloss wearing off, but I've played it twice and still want another lash at it.

conman · 05-05-2009 09:22PM

Kevinmarkham wrote: »

Stockdam, you have no idea the grief I've been given about Scrabo. It's violent and cramped (the 1st and 3rd cross-over is the easy one) and unfair and the gorse seems to be extra sharp, but I still think it's amazing. And its location is dynamite. I'm sure you're right about the initial gloss wearing off, but I've played it twice and still want another lash at it.

its your view Kevin, and theres no need to doubt it..
there can be no exact top 10 anyway, its what enjoyment we amateurs can take home from a trek around a nicely designed field trying to play a great game.

my top 10 is no better and not the same as anyone elses either.

Kevinmarkham · 05-05-2009 09:30PM

[quote=conman;[URL="javascript:void(0)"]60117558[/URL]]its your view Kevin, and theres no need to doubt it..
there can be no exact top 10 anyway, its what enjoyment we amateurs can take home from a trek around a nicely designed field trying to play a great game.

my top 10 is no better and not the same as anyone elses either.[/quote]

Yea, top 10s are always amusing. There are usually 4 or 5 that everyone lists and then it's a right pick 'n' mix. It usually depends on how well you play - score 46 points and you'll love any course. I tried to side-step that and choose courses that delivered excitement and fun.

As for Cavan, I noticed the green down by 8. Shame to hear they messed it about, but that's what courses do to ensure 'progress'. Alot of the time I disagree with things that I hear have been changed, but what can you do!

conman · 05-05-2009 09:40PM

Kevinmarkham wrote: »

Yea, top 10s are always amusing. There are usually 4 or 5 that everyone lists and then it's a right pick 'n' mix. It usually depends on how well you play - score 46 points and you'll love any course. I tried to side-step that and choose courses that delivered excitement and fun.

As for Cavan, I noticed the green down by 8. Shame to hear they messed it about, but that's what courses do to ensure 'progress'. Alot of the time I disagree with things that I hear have been changed, but what can you do!

yea its a shame, tho im down in wicklow a lot these days, played Greystones a few weeks ago, was a nice little trek, i think it was the 17th that i had to hit over water to the green right behind it.. lovely little dangerous approach..

Delgany tomorrow hopefully

stockdam · 05-05-2009 09:48PM

Kevinmarkham wrote: »

Stockdam, you have no idea the grief I've been given about Scrabo. It's violent and cramped (the 1st and 3rd cross-over is the easy one) and unfair and the gorse seems to be extra sharp, but I still think it's amazing. And its location is dynamite. I'm sure you're right about the initial gloss wearing off, but I've played it twice and still want another lash at it.

Up here Scrabo doesn't get a good name but it's by no means a bad course. I think the "problem" is that it can be almost unplayable in a very strong wind though as any shot that doesn't find the fairway is lost.

But on a nice sunny day it is wonderful (Cairndhu has also great views from the 2nd tee box).

But if it's one of your favourites then that's a view that you should keep. I have had some tremendous rounds there and also some horror stories.

Patrick_K · 07-05-2009 02:48PM

Picked up the book in Waterstones at lunchtime.
Looks like a great read at first glance but I now can't get the bleedin' off the lad I share an office with, he thinks it's great !
Well done.

Kevinmarkham · 08-05-2009 07:41AM

Patrick_K wrote: »

Looks like a great read at first glance but I now can't get the bleedin' off the lad I share an office with

That's disgraceful! Tell him to damn well go and buy his own:D

Kimbot · 08-05-2009 12:16PM

Kevinmarkham wrote: »

I'll stick a post up here in the next week or so about a launch I'm planning at Greystones Golf Club. I have 20 free fourballs to give away at the launch - for Old Head, Adare, Tralee... and everyone's invited.

K

Any update on the launch mate?

Kevinmarkham wrote: »

I don't disagree with you, Stockdam - not at all. Courses like Dublin Mountain serve a specific and important purpose, but I'm looking at it from the point of view of a visiting golfer. If you travel from Galway or Northern Ireland or further afield, you're not going to want to play Dublin Mountain for a great Irish golfing experience.

I have to agree with Dublin Mountains, if your travelling from far a field its a let down. I went up there last year and was really disapointed with the course.

Kevinmarkham · 08-05-2009 08:07PM

jonny24ie wrote: »

Any update on the launch mate?

Funnily enough, I had a conversation with someone today about it and we've narrowed it down to June 2nd or 3rd. I'd rather it was sooner, but it's never easy getting everybody together. I'll stick up a post as soon as it's confirmed.

Got the Ballybunion Free Fourball yesterday! Hope to get Mount Juliet's next week.

K

PhilipMarlowe · 08-05-2009 08:31PM

I see your favourite hole on my home course (Gowran Park) is the 15th and it's mine too. Not overly long, straight, fairly flat, no bunkers and index 3!
You say the hardest hole is the 4th and it usually lives up to it's index 2 but the 12th off the blue stakes gives people nightmares... 590 yards dogleg, OOB close on the left and water on the right for the tee shot... usually into the wind...
I am playing a medal tomorrow and already am wondering what's in store

scrubber72 · 08-05-2009 09:34PM

hi kevin, got your book during the week and let me join the rest of the boardies and say congrats it a great read as well as a excellent reference book. Just a couple of questions? Have you been infulenced by the reception you recieved at some club to cause a lower points reward? I am a member of Ballinrobe and was delighted to see you score it so high but how could you give it 9 more points than Galway? I think personally Galway is much better course but I never manage to play well there. Thanks again
John

Kimbot · 09-05-2009 10:05AM

Kevinmarkham wrote: »

Funnily enough, I had a conversation with someone today about it and we've narrowed it down to June 2nd or 3rd. I'd rather it was sooner, but it's never easy getting everybody together. I'll stick up a post as soon as it's confirmed.

Got the Ballybunion Free Fourball yesterday! Hope to get Mount Juliet's next week.

K

Keep me updated mate, if I don't get the book by then I will pop up for the launch.

Kevinmarkham · 10-05-2009 09:49AM

[quote=scrubber72;[URL="javascript:void(0)"]60164843[/URL]]hi kevin, got your book during the week and let me join the rest of the boardies and say congrats it a great read as well as a excellent reference book. Just a couple of questions? Have you been infulenced by the reception you recieved at some club to cause a lower points reward? I am a member of Ballinrobe and was delighted to see you score it so high but how could you give it 9 more points than Galway? I think personally Galway is much better course but I never manage to play well there. Thanks again
John[/quote]

Hey John,
First, the answer to whether I am influenced by the reception I receive is 'no' - as Knighstbrook will testify (great reception, not mad about the course!) and I received an excellent reception at Galway. I liked the course, it's just Ballinrobe has more character.

Second, the points difference is not saying that Ballinrobe is 9 points 'better' than Galway. That's the total difference across all eight criteria. So, while Ballinrobe is almost half the price and gets a much higher Value for Money score, Galway gets a better Location score. Ballinrobe, in my opinion, is a better Golf Experience by just 2 points.
Hope that helps
K

Kevinmarkham · 10-05-2009 09:53AM

[quote=Licksy;[URL="javascript:void(0)"]60164073[/URL]]I see your favourite hole on my home course (Gowran Park) is the 15th and it's mine too. Not overly long, straight, fairly flat, no bunkers and index 3!
You say the hardest hole is the 4th and it usually lives up to it's index 2 but the 12th off the blue stakes gives people nightmares... 590 yards dogleg, OOB close on the left and water on the right for the tee shot... usually into the wind...
I am playing a medal tomorrow and already am wondering what's in store

[/quote]

How'd you go, Licksy?
I tended not to play off the back sticks because the average visitor wouldn't play from there - otherwise I'd agree completely - 590 yards is brutal.

PhilipMarlowe · 10-05-2009 01:08PM

Didn't play yesterday... but going out later today.

Mister Sifter · 13-05-2009 11:05AM

Good positive write-up in the indo today...

http://www.independent.ie/sport/golf/markhams-6800mile-odyssey--unearths-some-hidden-gems-1736887.html

stockdam · 19-05-2009 04:32PM

I skimmed through Kevin's book today in Easons and it looks good. Like every book that tries to review lots of courses it only gives you a flavour of each course (and one man's opinion).

Kevin, one idea for a 2nd edition would be to add "local tips" from members (ok so this would be a big effort to get enough info).

For example. I read your review of the Ava course in Clandeboye and as you rightly said there are several blind shots. However as a local I know how to overcome most of these.

For example your recommended hole is the 7th which is a very tight hole with a quarry and OOB on the left. You said to take a 5 iron from the tee for safety (good call) but then you have a blind second shot. Well the "locals" would play this as follows. It's very risky to take a wood from the tee as the fairway narrows significantly for a wood. My line was always to hit a 5 wood over the gorse on the right (220 yard carry) towards the 5th green......only a local would know how much room there is out there. If successful then you are on flat ground and can see the 7th green. However even then you have to skirt with the trees beside the 7th green due to the angle you are coming in from.

Ok so this isn't what your book was intended to do but it's an idea. Not a very good idea but an idea.

I've ordered the book for my birthday next month.

Kevinmarkham · 19-05-2009 04:54PM

Thanks Stockdam,
always great to get feedback from real golfers. I had so many plans for the book but simply didn't have the room to put in things like local knowledge, food, accommodation, local attractions... I ended up having to cut a lot of the reviews to keep each course to a single page - which was always my goal. If (big 'if') the publisher goes for a 2nd edition in the future I'll be sure to add in a 'local tip' on each course. It's a nice addition.

I think both Clandeboye courses are brilliant. Amusingly, on my blog, I said that the Dufferin course was the best value track on the island; shortly afterwards I met the head greenkeeper who said green fees had just gone up. Bummer!

You could buy the book for €15 if you come along to the launch. Then again, it'll cost a few quid to get down from your neck of the woods so not exactly a saving!

BUACHAILL · 19-05-2009 05:22PM

Kevin I have bought the book and find it a great read !! I agree fully with Stockdam's suggestion but I also love the simplicity of it all !! Its a great quick ref to a course you have not played and just gives you a taste for a course which I feel is better than every last detail mentioned.

PS If ( big if ) the publisher goes for a 2nd edition I want first dibs on being your playing partner and we can re-visit them all again ha ha

stockdam · 19-05-2009 05:54PM

When and where is the launch Kevin.

It is a regret of mine that I had to leave Clandeboye as it has two great though different courses. I grew up on the Ava course so I know most of the lines. It's a great course to learn course strategy and to develop a good short game. You can play it defensively or you can attack it but it always makes you think. On most holes there's the safe shot and then there's the risky shot........you take on the risky shot and you get the rewards (I love holes that reward the brave).

Edit....doh......launch is at

Greystones Golf Club on Tuesday, 2nd June, 7.30pm to 9pm.

That's 4 days before my birthday......perfect. I'll send the GF down and you can sign it for her.

copacetic · 19-05-2009 08:21PM

Threads merged. Better to keep all discussion in the one place.

PhilipMarlowe · 13-06-2009 09:31PM

Bought my 2nd copy of the book today. Gave the other one to a South African friend of mine who had spoken at christmas time about getting a camper van and golfing about the place, keeping a video diary and blogging about it, if only our wives would work harder... he was gutted when I told him "too late mate"

irishtoffee · 13-06-2009 09:40PM

Kevin is it true from what i have been told you had a wright go at Wexford golf course in the press? Saying it was the worst course you played in Ireland and has absolutely nothing going for it.

Hooked - amateur's guide to golf courses in Ireland

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