Arsenal Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

DenMan · 07-05-2009 10:05PM

Why do a lot of us here want to see Diaby go? I am a big fan of his. He is stong on the ball, has great technique, scores goals and is a very good passer of the ball. He has been played out of position for most of the season lads. Him and Fabs could be an awesome combination. Everytime I see him play in the middle he looks comfortable and confident. In another year he could be the new Patrick Vieira we are all craving for.

Pepe LeFrits · 07-05-2009 10:10PM

itsjaybud wrote: »

I was actually very impressed with RVP in the majority of the games he played this season when fully fit.

To say hes slow, one footed and weak is not really something i can agree with. Take Wayne Rooney for example just as one footed, not exactly considered to have serious pace but like RVP he doesnt really need it either!

Rooney is obviously alot more physical but again i think RVP is actually a pretty feisty player and wouldnt consider him easily shoved off the ball, he always tends to lean into players and protect the ball pretty well imo.

Rooney is about as quick as Sagna, and his pace should have been pretty evident on Tuesday when he destroyed us for the third goal. van Persie can't and doesn't do that, he never outpaces defenders. He used to be quite quick when he was young but his lost it with the injuries.

Rooney also is much more two-footed. He prefers his right but he can go with his left also. This is pretty evident when you see him run at defenders and they don't know which way he'll go. With van Persie he's always trying to shift it to his left and is generally pretty easily shut down.

Regarding strength... jesus, they're not in the same league, they're not even in the same sport. Rooney regularly bullys defenders. van Persie can generally hold the ball up if it comes to his feet and he can get arse into the defender ala Drogba, but have you ever watched him go shoulder to shoulder with a defender - he gets knocked on his arse virtually every time, whereas Rooney usually holds off the defender comfortably which lets him do what he wants to do with the ball.

Pepe LeFrits · 07-05-2009 10:12PM

DenMan wrote: »

Why do a lot of us here want to see Diaby go? I am a big fan of his. He is stong on the ball, has great technique, scores goals and is a very good passer of the ball. He has been played out of position for most of the season lads. Him and Fabs could be an awesome combination. Everytime I see him play in the middle he looks comfortable and confident. In another year he could be the new Patrick Vieira we are all craving for.

He's nothing like Vieira at all. He's a flair player with shag all pace who happens to be 6'3". His decision making is terrible and he hasn't got a defensive bone in his body. He's not half the player Vieira was.

tony1kenobi · 07-05-2009 10:25PM

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

He's nothing like Vieira at all. He's a flair player with shag all pace who happens to be 6'3". His decision making is terrible and he hasn't got a defensive bone in his body. He's not half the player Vieira was.

I agree with DenMan. I think Diaby will become a great player if he is given the chance.

I wouldn't be at all distressed if Van Persie left....

....and I'll pay for Adebayors plane ticket myself. Not an Arsenal man at all with the mouth on him. His best season is behind him.

itsjaybud · 07-05-2009 10:30PM

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

Rooney is about as quick as Sagna, and his pace should have been pretty evident on Tuesday when he destroyed us for the third goal. van Persie can't and doesn't do that, he never outpaces defenders. He used to be quite quick when he was young but his lost it with the injuries.

Rooney also is much more two-footed. He prefers his right but he can go with his left also. This is pretty evident when you see him run at defenders and they don't know which way he'll go. With van Persie he's always trying to shift it to his left and is generally pretty easily shut down.

Regarding strength... jesus, they're not in the same league, they're not even in the same sport. Rooney regularly bullys defenders. van Persie can generally hold the ball up if it comes to his feet and he can get arse into the defender ala Drogba, but have you ever watched him go shoulder to shoulder with a defender - he gets knocked on his arse virtually every time, whereas Rooney usually holds off the defender comfortably which lets him do what he wants to do with the ball.

Had a feeling when i mentioned Rooney this would turn a bit into Rooney verus Van Persie which might enhance your point that van persie should be sold but, for me when they both play to the best of their abilities it would probably be Rooney i would like to see in the arsenal team ahead of RVP but not be as much as your making out.

I just dont see the argument regards both players pace, theyre not the type of players that speed up and down the line and i really do believe when fully fit RVP has every bit as much pace as Rooney does.
The point regarding Sagna tbh again i dont think Sagna is actually that quick!

When deployed on the left rooneys constantly cuts back in to provide a cross on his right foot, it happens on numerous occasions every game he plays from the left. Cant recall Rooney ever doing too much with his left leg regards crosses.

He might take on a few shots on goal, which RVP also does and he can most certainly put his right foot through the ball which we saw away to chelsea this year (i might be mistaken but he did crack one in with it this season)

Granted theres no argument regards physicality of the both players but as ive said RVP can protect the ball pretty well allbeit not to the same extent as Rooney but still effective enough imo.

EDIT: That was it the goal at home to Liverpool cracker!!!

leninbenjamin · 07-05-2009 10:37PM

DenMan wrote: »

Why do a lot of us here want to see Diaby go? I am a big fan of his. He is stong on the ball, has great technique, scores goals and is a very good passer of the ball. He has been played out of position for most of the season lads. Him and Fabs could be an awesome combination. Everytime I see him play in the middle he looks comfortable and confident. In another year he could be the new Patrick Vieira we are all craving for.

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

He's nothing like Vieira at all. He's a flair player with shag all pace who happens to be 6'3". His decision making is terrible and he hasn't got a defensive bone in his body. He's not half the player Vieira was.

I used be a fan of Diaby, but the lack of progress from him is really worrying. A bit like Bendtner, the raw talent is there but begod they play like kids at times with some of their decisions. I personally think they should be kept away from the starting lineup next season and possibly shipped out on loan to get a season of regula football, to see if signs of their original potential are still there.

p.s. I think RVP should be gotten rid of. he'll never become anything better than he is now. While he's not without talent, he simply isn't good enough for the big games.

itsjaybud · 07-05-2009 10:40PM

DenMan wrote: »

Why do a lot of us here want to see Diaby go? I am a big fan of his. He is stong on the ball, has great technique, scores goals and is a very good passer of the ball. He has been played out of position for most of the season lads. Him and Fabs could be an awesome combination. Everytime I see him play in the middle he looks comfortable and confident. In another year he could be the new Patrick Vieira we are all craving for.

Ya again i had great hopes for Diaby last year but he just hasnt done it for me and regards the next partner for Cesc, jesus no hes not that type of player at all imo, ie one that will track back as much as he drives forward.

I know where your getting the Vieira thing from when he first burst onto the scene for us he did have a resemblance with his runs etc but now ive lost any such feelings and recently he just doesnt seem to have whats necessary to become a regular at arsenal.

yahoo_moe · 07-05-2009 10:41PM

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

van Persie is astonishingly overrated.

Rooney v RVP is a less pointless comparison than Diaby v Vieira - but not by much. But I can't agree with your Van Persie assessment really - he's not the quickest, fair enough, but I think his hold-up/link play is pretty good. He's slightly slower than Adebayor at doing it but he can still do it. And he certainly scored at least one showreel goal this year against the 'Pool.

I'd rather sell Ade and keep Van Persie - I don't see where our options come from if we sell both and only buy Zhirkov, Toulalan and Hangeland or whatever.

Diaby I think has ability - but I'd certainly accept him being sold because I just don't see where he fits into the Arsenal team at the moment.

DenMan · 07-05-2009 10:44PM

Not too long ago we were linked with Torsten Frings and the player himself wanted to join. He could have been a great signing for us but Wenger let that opportunity go.

Frisbee · 07-05-2009 10:46PM

DenMan wrote: »

In another year he could be the new Patrick Vieira we are all craving for.

1. Tall, Black and Bald.
2. ??????
3. Next Patrick Vieira

Monumental facepalm

Pepe LeFrits · 07-05-2009 10:48PM

Adebayor is pretty poor at linking up play too so van Persie being better than him isn't saying much.

The off-striker position is pretty damn important, and all our rivals are much better in that regard - Rooney, Gerrard and Lampard. We used to have Bergkamp, the difference is considerable.

The reasoning behind selling him is that we put Arshavin in the number 10 role, because he is a far better link player. Quicker, better dribbler, less selfish, quicker thinker, better vision, better passer... the list goes on. Buy a quality winger (one who does the tracking back that Arshavin isn't great at) because Rosicknote/Nasri/Walcott aren't the best options as we've seen all too well. If we can afford a replacement for Adebayor then great but otherwise Eduardo/Bendtner/Walcott/Vela are still quite good striking options if we can bring real quality into other areas.

OPENROAD · 07-05-2009 10:50PM

Frisbee wrote: »

1. Tall, Black and Bald.

And French.

Frisbee · 07-05-2009 10:53PM

OPENROAD wrote: »

And French.

That too

Pepe LeFrits · 07-05-2009 10:53PM

His surname also has three syllables. So it works for the chant.

Frisbee · 07-05-2009 10:58PM

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

His surname also has three syllables. So it works for the chant.

We've found the missing piece

1. Tall, Black and Bald
2. ??????? French and a three syllable name
3. Next Patrick Vieira

Well done lads, we all deserve a pat on the back for this one

jank · 08-05-2009 12:49AM

Diaby is rubbish. He has been there now a few years and has made no real difference. Out the door he goes, probably Brimingham.
Silvestre should be kicked out as well.

IMO we should bring back Senderous. I know he should not be in the first XI but I have faith in him.

We should bring in a strong CB and DM.

Galvasean · 08-05-2009 01:03AM

So, sell adebayor for £20 million and bring in Tevez.

Buy Lescott from Everton for £15million.

Ship out 2 of the following 3 (Song, Diaby, Denilson).

Purchase some man mountain of a DM, somebody gigantic.

I live a fantasy.

keano_afc · 08-05-2009 07:21AM

I'm really not gearing myself up for a summer of mad transfer activity this time. Having seen how we usually do business in Aug/Jan I'm gonna take the day off after the deadline and watch us try to sign one player through the night.

Seriously though, I really hope Wenger will swallow his pride and privately at least admit he might have got things wrong this season. I know injuries have crippled us at vital times but lets face it thats nothing new. He left us very weak at centre half and didnt even try to rectify that in January. As for changes up front, I wouldnt be too upset if we lost Ade and/or van Persie.

leninbenjamin · 08-05-2009 09:45AM

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

Adebayor is pretty poor at linking up play too so van Persie being better than him isn't saying much.

The off-striker position is pretty damn important, and all our rivals are much better in that regard - Rooney, Gerrard and Lampard. We used to have Bergkamp, the difference is considerable.

the second paragraph is exactly why Adebayor's been poor at link up play this season. When you've got the right players around him he looks very good in this area imo, but since Hleb went he hasn't had a stable partnership with anyone he can link up with. RVP is too much of a lone ranger really to link up effectively with him. hence I agree that Arshavin should be played in the number 10 role, he has the ability to form the link between midfield and Ade, but he's also got the pace to ensure he can get in the box along side Ade to support him.

Ade's been disappointing this season, but i'm not sure i'd write him off yet. Last season showed how good a player he can be, and while he'll never reach the dizzying heights of some, get the right people around him and he can really do you a job. So I really hope Wenger will give Ade and Arshavin a chance to form a partnership together next season.

Galvasean wrote: »

So, sell adebayor for £20 million and bring in Tevez.

Buy Lescott from Everton for £15million.

Ship out 2 of the following 3 (Song, Diaby, Denilson).

Purchase some man mountain of a DM, somebody gigantic.

I live a fantasy.

get rid of Diaby only. the other two have shown enough potential this season to make them worth holding to for a while yet at least.

yahoo_moe · 08-05-2009 10:50AM

Good stuff:

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/walcott-signs-a-new-long-term-contract

Still learning and developing but if he continues to improve at anything like the rate he has in the last year/year and a half, I'll be chuffed to bits.

itsjaybud · 08-05-2009 10:55AM

If Wenger could some how buy the next Nemanja Vidic, Michael Essien and Ferrando Torres over the summer i would be pretty satisfied!!!:)

yahoo_moe · 08-05-2009 11:52AM

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

The reasoning behind selling him is that we put Arshavin in the number 10 role, because he is a far better link player.

I've no problem with Arshavin in there (especially as it gives us the option of a wideman who offers a bit more protection to the full back and drifts less) but then I'd probably keep Ade, even if only for another year. I know your plan kind of depends on selling him to raise cash but I find it hard to justify clearing out our two main forward players and weakening the squad in the one area where we previously had loads of players.

Eduardo as first choice and changing back to more of a passing game again, fine (guy's way more clinical than Ade) - but having Bendtner/Walcott/Vela as our only other options seems dangerous. While he certainly has the talent (and swapping him in for Eduardo wouldn't disrupt the way the side plays that much), Vela's international commitments mean that for me, he hasn't really had enough gametime yet to be second-choice striker.

Galvasean · 08-05-2009 12:22PM

leninbenjamin wrote: »

get rid of Diaby only. the other two have shown enough potential this season to make them worth holding to for a while yet at least.

The reason why i'd want rid of two of the three (Diaby, song, Denilson) is that our midfield will be overly crowded next season.

Rosicky, Arshavin, Fabregas, Denilson, Nasri, Song, Diaby and this new man mountain archaetype I want, not to mention Ramsey and Vela (possibly Randall too) trying to makea stake for first team football.

Come to think of it would anyone be opposed to loaning out Ramsey for the season? I think a season at a mid table - upper tier premier league team like Everton, Fulham, Wigan or Villa could do him a world of good.

gosplan · 08-05-2009 12:30PM

Selling:

Diaby, Denilson, Song - hard to pick who should go to be honest. The problem with such young players playing in DMF/CMF roles is that they're never supposed to be any good until they're like 24/25. That said, I've seen enough from Diaby to be fairly confidant that he has neither the aggression to play DMF or the intelligence to play CMF/AMF.

I think both Denilson and Song should be kept. They're both still extremely young for their position, both have shown great potential and both have done a pretty good job this year considering that they were thrust into the deep end. Also if Fabregas gets injured again I'd rather see Song - Denilson - Arhsavin/Nasri play a three man midifeld than have to play Diaby or rely on Rosicky being fit.

I guess what it comes down to most is that I can still see Denilson and Song being world class in a few years, I can't see Diaby being so.

Ade and Bendtner - I think both should go. As I said before, I don't think the big target man works for us. We don't properly commit to it, our big target men want to be midfielders/wingers, our wingers want to cut inside rather than cross ... etc. There's an argument for Bendtner staying as we won't get much for him and he does get a fair share of goals for a sub. Cash in on Ade.

I wouldn't sell RVP yet. I'd love to see him, Eduardo and Arshavin start next year as our forwards. Alongside Arshavin and Fabregas, he's been our performer of the year despite injuries, not getting the best service and playing most of the games with a poor enough partner.

Buying:

Hangeland, Top class DMF

Shooting:

Silvestre

DenMan · 08-05-2009 01:25PM

Arshavin a doubt for the Chelsea game with a virus. Let's hope he can shake it off, we definitely need him.

L'prof · 08-05-2009 01:41PM

itsjaybud wrote: »

nteresting summer ahead i reckon.

I'd go for frustrating and depressing again myself!

itsjaybud · 08-05-2009 03:13PM

^^^ Ya that works to.

cson · 08-05-2009 04:40PM

Can people get a grip? Hangeland is the midst of one good season. We've seen how that can go; Adebayor being case for the prosecution. I don't know if anyone follows Gah and hurling here but the best analogy I can draw to Arsenal is they're almost exactly like the Galway Hurling team; plenty of talented individuals who don't come close to the sum of their parts.

I can't remember the last time I saw an Arsenal player rising to a big match occaision too. Possiby the Champions League Final run of 2006.

@Galvasean, we don't need a gigantor of a DM, we need a mobile tough unit which we had in Flamini but as is archetypical of the club was let go because we wouldn't pay him enough. Granted he's got a mercenary streak in him but its going to cost us more to buy a new DM than it would have to pay him what he wanted.

Of huge importance is the defence, I don't think Wenger has the experience of building one. He was blessed at both Monaco and Arsenal in that when he came, both had arguably the best defences of their respective divisions. He got lucky-ish with Sol Campbell in the middle of his term as manager imo also. We don't have a track record of buying good quality defenders. Clichy and Sagna have regressed a bit too imo this season although they were world class last season so I wouldn't be too worried. Again strength in depth is a huge issue, Kieren Gibbs for all his promise should not be playing in a Champions League Semi-Final. Neither should Mikael Silvestre. Wengers CB record is atrocious - Cygan, Stepanov's, Silvestre all players who shouldn't even wear an Arsenal Reserves shirt. Also one of Gallas and Toure has to go. They don't work together and they don't complement each other.

Finally, for all the talk about transition periods, we should be building a team. Man Utd are streets ahead of everyone in this regard. The team is extremely well bedded down and the depth they have is excellent. Take out Toure from our team and the longest serving player I'm guessing is one of Clichy-Fabregas and RVP. Thats 4 players who have been here > 4 yrs. We haven't been fostering a team spirit and it shows. While I wasn't too enamoured with Gibbs who consoled him or rallied the team after the 1st Utd goal?

/rant

Edit: Btw it says a lot about the team as a whole when people are saying Arshavin has been one of the star performers - I don't disagree but he's played what, 7ish games?

FearDark · 08-05-2009 04:47PM

Can anyone else see Flamini coming back? Im just going off his comment he said to the BBC on the week leading up to the first leg against Man Utd and the fact that he's still an Arsenal supporter and he was at The Emirates on tuesday night.

Anyone? ...or wishful thinking?

greendom · 08-05-2009 05:09PM

FearDark wrote: »

Can anyone else see Flamini coming back? Im just going off his comment he said to the BBC on the week leading up to the first leg against Man Utd and the fact that he's still an Arsenal supporter and he was at The Emirates on tuesday night.

Anyone? ...or wishful thinking?

Well I'd welcome him back with open arms - not sure everyone would feel the same though

Arsenal Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

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