ESB to create 3,700 jobs

Permabear · 16-04-2009 12:38PM #1

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masterK · 16-04-2009 12:44PM

It's too early to complain about us having to pay for these new jobs without knowing the full details. It costs in between 25-30k for 1 person a year to be on social welfare (including medical, housing benefits etc). If we can put 3700 people to work for a similar average wage then costing in the amount they will pay in both direct and indirect tax this could be beneficial for the economy.

If however these jobs come with a job for life civil service style guarantee and a defined benefit pension to boot then they don't represent such as good deal for the tax payer and consumer.

The article states a lot of them will be apprentices so on that basis it sounds like a good way of up skilling our workforce for a relatively cheap cost.

is_that_so · 16-04-2009 12:50PM

Personally see it as a positive. Yes we have been subject to high energy charges but with the entry of Airtricity , Bord Gais and probably more players next year the argument does not really hold water. We are also getting the new interconnector to the UK and of course the push towards alternative energy. The ESB do have the skills, the infrastructure and the experience. What does bug me is Eamonn Ryan taking us all for halfwits and showing up every time anything is announced and claiming credit for it.

gurramok · 16-04-2009 12:51PM

They did shed a few thousand in the last decade though. Wonder will they pay the new employees the great rates that the present ones enjoy.

NullZer0 · 16-04-2009 12:55PM

"stimulating the economy"

My bill wasn't very simulating considering the fact that I wasn't home!

Permabear · 16-04-2009 12:56PM

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BroomBurner · 16-04-2009 01:02PM

I think it takes a certain kind of nasty pessimism to believe that the creation of 3,700 jobs in alternative technology is a bad thing. Especially with the current economic and global energy situation.

So what that it "stinks of Eamon Ryan's blah blah blah", it's a good thing that Ireland is moving away from fossil fuel based energy, and it's a good thing that there will be jobs.

Jeez, some people are never happy.

Permabear · 16-04-2009 01:07PM

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BroomBurner · 16-04-2009 01:14PM

For a start, are you 100% sure that these will be 100% state jobs?

First off, the ESB is semi-state, not fully state-owned. There are a large number of workers there in various disciplines on contract work. Perhaps that's the way they'll go with this.

Secondly, as another poster mentioned, they used the term "apprentiships", that to me sounds like it is more contract based than anything else.

Bottom line, Ireland needs alternative technology, Ireland needs jobs, the government is finally leading on something positive. They tried the route of making energy costly enough in a small island nation to attract outside private energy and it didn't work. So they've taken the bulls by the horn, so to speak and are doing it themselves. If they hire the right people, train them and Ireland becomes less dependent on outside fuel, then that can only be a good thing.

bladespin · 16-04-2009 01:17PM

Think it's a good idea, stimulating the economy can't be bad right now, even if we end up paying a bit more short term.

If you don't like it you could always buy a wind turbine and be self sufficient.

Permabear · 16-04-2009 01:20PM

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ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 16-04-2009 01:21PM

Judas Priest! Someone tries to take a positive step in this country and immediately people start conspiracy theories, government interference moans, and what-about-the taxpayer whailing. Private industry didn't want to know and won't touch it with a barge pole. It has been a long held plan within ESB and has nothing to do with the current economic situation. The ESB is not funded in anyway by the Taxpayer. Yes their customers pay for their product but that's a different debate. The Regulator will ensure that those availing of the new sustainable projects (electric vehicles etc) will be the ones to pay. Here is a company doing what it's supposed to do and all we do is moan before the details are even announced.
And by the way ESB jobs are not Public sector they are Private Sector jobs.

As someone has already said: Jeez some people are never happy! :mad:

big b · 16-04-2009 01:27PM

In fairness, standing on the Mayo coast with cables wrapped round your ankles while you flap your arms around in the breeze wouldn't be most people's idea of a brilliant new job.

Seriously, job creation of any sort is welcome at the minute. 3700 off the dole, 3700 with some money to spend. I'll take any good news I can get right now!

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 16-04-2009 01:36PM

donegalfella wrote: »

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ESB is a Private Sector company with 90% share holding by the Minister for Energy, 5% the Minister for Finace, and 5% Employees. It is not a Public Sector business. It is a statutory corporation not a semi-state company. State owned yes but there is a clear, legal and governance difference which I'll not bore everyone with.

The costs of nothing will be paid by the Taxpayer. No state funds have ever been put in ESB. They (unlike BNM, CIE etc) have never received state subsidies. In fact they have for many years paid €Millions per annumr to the state in dividends.(C €100M p.a.)

Let private investment take care of it? Well to a degree it will, as ESB is using private investment as opposed to state funding; but private industry are not doing it. That is the whole point. Where is your precious private investment. This is open to anybody but where are they?

And yes the price of energy rose to encourage competition into the market and ESB are actually barred from reducing their prices to what they would like in case it undermines the competition. Broomburner doesn't need to provide you with the evidence as it's well documented (even on earlier Boards.ie threads.) It's not something anybody's trying to hide. It's acknowledged fact.

Permabear · 16-04-2009 01:38PM

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Gumbo · 16-04-2009 01:42PM

great news imo

god, people moan when theres no jobs and they still moan when there are jobs, get a life.

Permabear · 16-04-2009 01:49PM

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ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 16-04-2009 02:01PM

donegalfella wrote: »

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You can bluster all you like but the ESB is a Private Sector company and legally acknowledged as one. You'd really need to learn the meaning of "Private sector". A company cannot be owned by the Private sector! Public sector enterprises are funded by the state and ESB are not and never were. Were the profits of the banks a Tax? Where the profits of Ryanair a Tax? Where the profits wherever you work a tax? We all pay towards the profits of some company or another. They all pay dividends to shareholders and they all, like ESB, re-invest in their infrastructure and service.
People just like complaining in this country. What hope have we of recovery with this attitude.
I think this discussion is going to go round in circles so I'll leave it there.

Permabear · 16-04-2009 02:13PM

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thebman · 16-04-2009 02:17PM

I can't help but agree that this is artificial job creation.

There is no denying that the government are behind the project.

We need real job creation and a recovery to our economy and competitiveness. This isn't a step in the right direction for that but just helps hide some of the dole queue in the ESB.

Good news for anyone that gets one of the jobs though. Good news that the profits the ESB are making will go into job creation and not just into investment in their foreign network expansion which they could have done (maybe they still are).

BroomBurner · 16-04-2009 02:56PM

thebman wrote: »

I can't help but agree that this is artificial job creation.

There is no denying that the government are behind the project.

We need real job creation and a recovery to our economy and competitiveness. This isn't a step in the right direction for that but just helps hide some of the dole queue in the ESB.

How are these articial jobs? They are real jobs in a sector that has the potential to be long term! We'll always need energy, surely being able to produce our own ourselves will be a good thing and will be long term. Or do you think that once we've been able to prove to everyone that we can generate our own energy from renewable/alternative sources that we will then throw our hands in the air and say "well done us, now lets go back to buying in energy from overseas!".

The only short-term jobs that will occur will be those for the construction of plants/turbines/etc. This project has the potential to boost employment in the following sectors:

construction
planning
environment sector (from energy creation to managing the EIS and various regulations involved)
other - such as general maintenance staff, office staff, etc.

There will also be the added benefit of the possible long-term plan of the ESB being able to sell energy to the UK and abroad as opposed to continuing to buy energy from the UK (some of which is nuclear).

No brainer to me.

thebman · 16-04-2009 03:02PM

BroomBurner wrote: »

How are these articial jobs? They are real jobs in a sector that has the potential to be long term! We'll always need energy, surely being able to produce our own ourselves will be a good thing and will be long term. Or do you think that once we've been able to prove to everyone that we can generate our own energy from renewable/alternative sources that we will then throw our hands in the air and say "well done us, now lets go back to buying in energy from overseas!".

They are artificial because it if wasn't for the recession they probably wouldn't have existed because the government wouldn't have rang the boys and asked them to get some projects under way and hire some extra people.

We don't know if a lot of these jobs could have been done by existing employees. I'd have my doubts about the jobs. I think they mainly will be created to lower unemployment stats for the year then for all the benefits you list.q

edanto · 16-04-2009 03:05PM

The government should be doing something about this whole crisis situation!

No, not THAT, they shouldn't be doing THAT, they should do something else.

Well, no, I don't know exactly what. But smaller, the government should definitely be smaller. And more effective, they should do more things. For less money. I want better services, for free.

Donegalfella, your private sector solutions have been found sorely lacking. The profit motivation, while strong in getting people to do something, doesn't work when it comes to looking after people. As we have seen, when entities like the banks are let loose in the world to do as they please, we all suffer. The profits of some individuals are maximised while their responsibilities are minimised.

At least in the ESB, they have provided a reliable, reasonably cheap service to the country for many many years and haven't focked anyone over. I don't know the ins and outs of their accounts or operations and would suspect that there are opportunities for cost-cutting and efficiency. I hope that they take them.

But, the key thing is, that I would trust their model, a private company owned by the government, to benefit society far more than a private company owned by shareholders. As has become clear with the banks for example, most of those shareholders were other financial institutions and their only motivation was to make profit. So they gambled peoples pensions on a ridiculous stock market and charged whether things went up or down.

If we're faced with a choice of investing in companies like the ESB or companies like the banks, then for me it's a very easy decision.

di11on · 16-04-2009 03:06PM

The ESB already has approval for a 22bn spend on developing renewable energy. Just be thankful that this money is resulting in Irish jobs.

We can't have our cake and eat it. This government has committed to 40% energy from renewable energy by 2020. That's not going to happen for free.

BroomBurner · 16-04-2009 03:09PM

(in response to The Bman) Not necessarily so, the ESB has long said that they wanted to increase their alternative energy supply and now, with Eamon Ryan at the helm, it's more a probability than a possibility.

Yes, it is coming at a time when jobs are needed, but how is it a bad thing? People need employment, they need jobs, the sectors need boosting and the government is taking control (for once) to see that that happens. Seeing as the ESB already has a large percentage market share, they just have to hook up any alternative energy to the grid and reduce the need to buy energy from abroad, therefore saving money for themselves, making a tidy profit and paying their staff, including their newly acquired staff.

Ok, many of the jobs will be short-term construction jobs, but that's the nature of the construction game.

The ends justify the means here, and I fail to see how anyone can see a downside in this.

Permabear · 16-04-2009 03:26PM

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nomadic · 16-04-2009 03:46PM

"ESB will recruit 250 engineers and 50 other professionals. ESB will also train 800 apprentices over the next five years including 400 FAS apprentices who lost their jobs in the recent economic downturn and will now be able to complete their craft training, paid for by ESB."

These appear to be the only positions the esb will fill directly.
Happy days for me hopefully as an unemployed electrical engineering grad.

http://www.esb.ie/main/news_events/press_release352.jsp

Permabear · 16-04-2009 04:54PM

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Sage'sMama · 16-04-2009 08:27PM

donegalfella wrote: »

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Addmin jobs :rolleyes:

gurramok · 16-04-2009 08:45PM

ESB intend to borrow the money from international markets to pay for these new positions.

Asked how the ESB would fund the plan, Mr McManus said that in the current climate, utility companies were able to borrow money on international markets. He added that the investment would pay back 'handsomely' in the long-term, and would not affect prices for consumers

Mark this down, they better not hit consumers with this.

At a media briefing today, the company said it was developing new infrastructure such as smart metering and a system to allow for the recharging of electric cars.

Yes, alot of it is dependent on electric cars taking off, very far fetched.

Dr Galen · 16-04-2009 09:01PM

gurramok wrote: »

ESB intend to borrow the money from international markets to pay for these new positions.

Mark this down, they better not hit consumers with this.

agreed. you would hope that breaking our dependence on imported coal oil and gas we should all be seeing a hefty discount on our current electricity bills.

Yes, alot of it is dependent on electric cars taking off, very far fetched.

maybe not....latest press release from Government on electric cars

both announcements are most likely linked and have been in the offing for a while now.

While I welcome the creation of jobs, I'd have to share others concerns about the overall cost of this. If the plan comes off as they want, then it will be beneficial, and may lead to the Private sector investment in renewable technologies that DonegalFella advocates. If it doesn't work out though, and becomes a noose around ESB's neck, then who is going to have to step up and bail them out......

My other first thoughts were that this is another step on the road to making the ESB a good candidate for a sell-off in years to come.

ESB to create 3,700 jobs

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