"It's what you do next that counts"

Woddle · 06-04-2009 12:39PM

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Hope Eurodisney went a little better.

Arrived about an hour ago, beautiful weather, kids are very excited. Poor dad had to lump 2 suitcases on and off trains and down stairs

but going to get a massage in the afternoon and a swim.

Talks everyone for the nice words. I'm contemplating Belfast now, will see what a couple of people think first before registering.

Racing Flat · 06-04-2009 01:09PM

Woddle wrote: »

I'm contemplating Belfast now, will see what a couple of people think first before registering.

Don't even think about it is what I think. Don't throw good money after bad and all that. Think long term.

shels4ever · 06-04-2009 01:26PM

Racing Flat wrote: »

Don't even think about it is what I think. Don't throw good money after bad and all that. Think long term.

I'm with RF on this long term focus is better then a quick fix, you know you can run faster so focus on Berlin , It's only 4 week to Belfast and you need to let your body recover.. Take a few weeks to recover and blast out a few quick 5 miles / 10k and enjoy running ....

SUNGOD · 06-04-2009 02:45PM

i pulled out of belfast as i felt it was too soon after the ultra and i needed time to recover properly.
i think i made the right decision, it means i was'nt straight back into marathon training and as well as physically it also gave me time to freshen up mentally.
sometimes we need to take a step back before we can move forward.
relax and get a few PB's in the shorter distances under your belt (gsk 5 miler)
plenty of time then till you start training for berlin

TheRoadRunner · 06-04-2009 05:22PM

Racing Flat wrote: »

Don't even think about it is what I think. Don't throw good money after bad and all that. Think long term.

+1. You won't get anything out of Belfast now. Seriously, I considered doing something similar after a bad run before but sense prevailed. Take a mini break run easy get a new (shorter) target for sometime May/June and take it from there.

Racing Flat · 06-04-2009 05:53PM

A disappointing result considering your ability and training. But sometimes it's just not your day. On top of the bad organisation (and I know many people who have complained of this at Paris), when you have to stop for a blister you know it's not your day. On long training runs, things like that will occasionally happen, e.g. you have to take a toilet break and you just think 'I hope this doesn't happen on the day'. And it sounds like a few of those dreaded things all happened to you on the one day. I don't think I'd recover from a stop - you get into a rhythm and once this is broken it's hard to get going again. Not to mention the havoc it would play with your head as you try to recalculate splits etc. Perhaps you will have learnt a few things from this bad experience that will help you in the future.

Where to from here? Possibly different to what most people here have said, I'd forget about Berlin. 2 marathons a year isn't the way forward for peak performance at our age and level if you ask me. i.e. if you run 3.20, but your long term goal is 3.00, I don't think doing one 6 months later looking for 3.10 and then 6 months later again looking for 3.00 is the way to do it. I'd suggest clipping away at the shorter distances until you are ready for 3.00.

Get your 5k under 18 (not necessary for everyone for sub 3, but at your age I think it would be suitable), get your 5 mile under 30, 10k under 38, 10mile definitely under 65, but the closer to 60 the better and half under 85, but again closer to 80 the better. Only then should you go back to the marathon. Could take 6 months, could take 2 years, but i'd forget about the marathon until you have these times.....

To run 3.00 you need to put 2 68min 10 miles back to back and finish with a 42.30 10k. To do that you need to be comfortably under 68 for 10mile IMHO. You'll do it one day, but doing too many marathons will be counter-productive if you ask me. But then I don't like marathons, so ignore as you like!

Berlin 2010 has a nice ring to it...
This summer, 5k under 19, 10k under 40
Winter chip away at 5k and 10k
March 2010 Ballycotton 62ish
Omagh/Larne 85 followed by rest
May 2010 start Berlin training
July 2010 5 mile sub 30
Aug 2010 Longford 82
Berlin sub 3.

You know it makes sense :pac::D I think steady consistent training will allow you to go 62 in Ballycotton or Dungarvan. A marathon in Sep might just disrupt this to much. Am I alone in thinking like this?

I suppose this is based a tad on my own experience of a failed sub 3 having run a 3.15 on first attempt. Ran 3.06 (off a 64 10 mile, 84 half) and was so disappointed I vowed not to go back to the marathon until I got the half under 75 :eek:. 3 years later I relented a little and reset this to sub 80. Never actually ran this, but based on my other times I was ready for sub 3 so went for it. I was successful. Just. But couldn't have dealt with another disappointment.

My theory behind this is that all the marathon training might build your endurance but will not do enough for your other parameters of running fitness. So getting the other times first and then going up the distance is what I'd recommend.

Enough of that, time for me to go for a run, time for you to enjoy your holiday and forget running for a while.

All the best.

Running Bing · 06-04-2009 06:19PM

Racing Flat wrote: »

My theory behind this is that all the marathon training might build your endurance but will not do enough for your other parameters of running fitness. So getting the other times first and then going up the distance is what I'd recommend.

I was just thinking about this the other day.

When training for shorter distances it is usually advised to do a period of slower aerobic running and then focusing on specific faster training for the event but for the marathon runners usually just do similar training year round and I would imagine it is very difficult to really increase speed while training for a marathon.

I see Hal Higdon advises doing a period of speedwork separately and then focusing on marathon training so in that way its like training for shorter distances flipped around i.e. speedwork instead of base and then marathon training instead of short distance speed training.

Just thought it was an interesting approach that not a lot of people seem to use.....but Woddle's training log probably is'nt the best place to be discussing this:D

gaeilgegrinds · 07-04-2009 11:47AM

Have any of ye used the belts with heart monitors?

shels4ever · 07-04-2009 12:28PM

Babybing wrote: »

I was just thinking about this the other day.

When training for shorter distances it is usually advised to do a period of slower aerobic running and then focusing on specific faster training for the event but for the marathon runners usually just do similar training year round and I would imagine it is very difficult to really increase speed while training for a marathon.

I see Hal Higdon advises doing a period of speedwork separately and then focusing on marathon training so in that way its like training for shorter distances flipped around i.e. speedwork instead of base and then marathon training instead of short distance speed training.

Just thought it was an interesting approach that not a lot of people seem to use.....but Woddle's training log probably is'nt the best place to be discussing this:D

Yes i would agree with that, i'm doing one marathon only to get some base from whichi can then work on speed, once i get this over with its back to shorter races for me and hope to make a return on the track in the graded leagues late this summer

. If i can achieve what I want over shorters distances maybe i'll do one more but its a big maybe.

I agree with RF there but one I think there are 2 ways of thinking.. 1. focus on your short speed and improve this for a crack at 3 hr.

2. Run lots of marathons as you like doing them and enjoy running, You may not improve or run as fast but if thats what you love...

I'll stop spamming woddles log now , i think there was a thread on this before.

hunnymonster · 07-04-2009 12:28PM

Woddle, Just catching up now. I'm really sorry to hear about the pissy organisation and bad day at the office in Paris. I hope you're recovered physically now. I would also bin Belfast but maybe look at something in the Autumn if I was you.

--amadeus-- · 07-04-2009 02:00PM

hard to know what to say really. It's particularly rough considering how up and motivated / motivational you are. It's no consolation but you are (a lot) faster than that performance shows and you will reap the rewards in time.

Like the rest I'd put the idea of Belfast out of your head and maybe totally walk away from running for a while. Get your head back straight and come back all clear and ready to roll. Let it be about fun, not fury at a bad race.

Interesting stuff from RF - be good to start a new thread in the main forum about it so we can talk about it without hogging Woddles log?

Running Bing · 07-04-2009 02:27PM

--amadeus-- wrote: »

hard to know what to say really. It's particularly rough considering how up and motivated / motivational you are. It's no consolation but you are (a lot) faster than that performance shows and you will reap the rewards in time.

Like the rest I'd put the idea of Belfast out of your head and maybe totally walk away from running for a while. Get your head back straight and come back all clear and ready to roll. Let it be about fun, not fury at a bad race.

Interesting stuff from RF - be good to start a new thread in the main forum about it so we can talk about it without hogging Woddles log?

Yeah I would'nt mind a split off thread to discuss it Amadeus. Its an interesting topic.

Slogger Jogger · 07-04-2009 09:07PM

Sorry to hear we had mutually disappointing weekends. At least in Rotterdam I couldn't fault the organisation. I'm not sure if Paris is a race that you can try to do a great time in in any event as there is too much city sights to distract you on the run. Its one to take in and experience IMHO.

Enjoy the holiday. I'm mad jealous as it would have been the perfect antidote to post race blues. I hope you, like me, rest up completely for the week and take stock in a positive way. Good points all made by RF above. I'm probably silly for having Edinburgh pencilled in, but if anything I'd do it as a long slow training run come the day and have a plan which will be one of enjoyment more than anything else perhaps.

donothoponpop · 10-04-2009 02:19PM

I share your pain and frustration Brother, 05/04/09 was just not meant to be for a lot of us. You wake up and the marathon pain is still with you, the annoyance hard to quell, and your instinct is to try and run it out as a form of catharsis- which is a bad idea. I'm sat here just having looked up last years winning times from the WW Ultra, half thinking of running it tomorrow, just to get some good from all the training. You're immediately thinking of running the next bloody marathon that comes along, just to atone for Paris. All of us who ran so badly last weekend really know that its nonsense to run again so soon. Take the hurt, take the frustration, take some time off running. Learn from the disappointment, and know that you've plenty of time to come back to top form this summer.

dna_leri · 10-04-2009 10:30PM

Woddle - I have followed your log since you started, as I was around the same stage then too. I have not had the courage to push myself as hard as you did and do not anticipate doing a marathon for a long while. Look at how far you have travelled since you started and all you have achieved. I hope despite your Paris setback you will continue to keep us updated and motivated on your next steps. I guess you have a few PBs at shorter distances to sort out. Who ever said Running was Easy?

Woddle · 13-04-2009 09:14PM

2 very nice posts, thanks guys. I have no plans to end my log. Its a part of my everyday routine now (sad I know

) and it helps keep me focused and motivated.

Paris is now behind me and I'm just about over the disappointment. I had both my mam and uncle questioning my training. ''forget the books, just do what I did'' is what I've been hearing, so I also feel I have sth to prove to them and that is that the training was good but for now that can wait, I have a new short term goal. My new goal is to set a pb in the 10k, this should not be too hard as I have only ever raced one and I did that in 54:52

. Along the way I hope to set a pb in the 5k and the adidas 5 mile.
In this cycle I will not be aiming for any paticular time (don't need the pressure :P) but I will be trying to run as fast as possible.
Current pbs for these distances
5k 19:25
5m 33:07
10K 54:52
The schedule I'm following is another Pfitzinger one and it involves running tempos of 2x 2 mile. Vo2 max sessions of 6x 800 and 5x3 min hills, it also includes basic speed of 12x100 and 8x200.

This schedule I was suppose to start today but I'm still not 100%, I'm on antibiotics for my ears, nose and throat. So hoping to start it Wednesday.

Just one last thing on my long winded piece of waffle

Last year when I got back into running it was down to some kind of mid life crisis and the realisation that I'm approaching 30 and that I'm in really bad shape and although I didn't celebrate my 30th in Paris with a pb, I still feel that running has helped me in making the transition and I'm very thankful to running that I wasn't a fat depressed bastard on my bday

TheRoadRunner · 13-04-2009 10:33PM

Woddle wrote: »

Last year when I got back into running it was down to some kind of mid life crisis and the realisation that I'm approaching 30 and that I'm in really bad shape and although I didn't celebrate my 30th in Paris with a pb, I still feel that running has helped me in making the transition and I'm very thankful to running that I wasn't a fat depressed bastard on my bday

Fair play to you, it's easy to be down in the dumps when you don't perform to your potential but you are right, You have made a great lifestyle change.

Surely you have broken that 10k time on some of your training runs, you need to check your beloved garmin

I reckon we broke that the day we ran in Marlay

Woddle · 13-04-2009 10:40PM

Done it plenty of times, even on my 20 mile lsrs

but I would be from the school of thought that only races count. How did the hot weather training go. I picked you up a set of white tolberone but theres only one left

I'll give it to you after London

TheRoadRunner · 14-04-2009 08:49AM

Woddle wrote: »

Done it plenty of times, even on my 20 mile lsrs but I would be from the school of thought that only races count.

True

Woddle wrote: »

How did the hot weather training go.

Warm weather was great, training was non-existent. Shins are playing havoc :mad: Next time I see you I'm expecting to see a white bar of heavenly chocolate also

RacoonQueen · 14-04-2009 11:01AM

Woddle wrote: »

Done it plenty of times, even on my 20 mile lsrs but I would be from the school of thought that only races count.

I'd be the same I've beaten my half marathon time by about half an hour in training, my 5k time in a marathon and my marathon time in the ultra. They only count as PB's if you run them in half marathons, 5k and marathons though. Gives you more to fight for. :pac:

MarieC · 14-04-2009 11:15AM

Woddle wrote: »

This schedule I was suppose to start today but I'm still not 100%, I'm on antibiotics for my ears, nose and throat. So hoping to start it Wednesday.

Just one last thing on my long winded piece of waffle
Last year when I got back into running it was down to some kind of mid life crisis and the realisation that I'm approaching 30 and that I'm in really bad shape and although I didn't celebrate my 30th in Paris with a pb, I still feel that running has helped me in making the transition and I'm very thankful to running that I wasn't a fat depressed bastard on my bday

Glad to hear that the spirits are picking up after Paris Woddle. Also its good to set new goals - always good to shake things up a bit and keep some variety in what you do.

I didn't train anywhere near what you did but have been nursing sore throat ears and head also since Paris. Hoping it will pass soon.

Finally congrats on achieving not a time goal but a personal goal for Paris. Keep on ploughing and you'll get the PB

shels4ever · 14-04-2009 11:23AM

RacoonQueen wrote: »

I'd be the same I've beaten my half marathon time by about half an hour in training, my 5k time in a marathon and my marathon time in the ultra. They only count as PB's if you run them in half marathons, 5k and marathons though. Gives you more to fight for. :pac:

Well if they were in a race then i'd say you can cout it

. Sure wasn't the irish 1500m record run in a mile race

Seres · 14-04-2009 04:56PM

sorry to hear about the dissappointing preformance in paris , glad to see you are picking yourself up again , good luck with the new goals i sure you will nail that 10k time

showry · 14-04-2009 07:22PM

bad luck in Paris Woddle,
you can look forward to all your times tumbling over the rest of the year though,

kevinkilbane · 14-04-2009 08:31PM

Woddle wrote: »

2 very nice posts, thanks guys. I have no plans to end my log. Its a part of my everyday routine now (sad I know ) and it helps keep me focused and motivated.

Paris is now behind me and I'm just about over the disappointment. I had both my mam and uncle questioning my training. ''forget the books, just do what I did'' is what I've been hearing, so I also feel I have sth to prove to them and that is that the training was good but for now that can wait, I have a new short term goal. My new goal is to set a pb in the 10k, this should not be too hard as I have only ever raced one and I did that in 54:52 . Along the way I hope to set a pb in the 5k and the adidas 5 mile.
In this cycle I will not be aiming for any paticular time (don't need the pressure :P) but I will be trying to run as fast as possible.
Current pbs for these distances
5k 19:25
5m 33:07
10K 54:52
The schedule I'm following is another Pfitzinger one and it involves running tempos of 2x 2 mile. Vo2 max sessions of 6x 800 and 5x3 min hills, it also includes basic speed of 12x100 and 8x200.

This schedule I was suppose to start today but I'm still not 100%, I'm on antibiotics for my ears, nose and throat. So hoping to start it Wednesday.

Just one last thing on my long winded piece of waffle
Last year when I got back into running it was down to some kind of mid life crisis and the realisation that I'm approaching 30 and that I'm in really bad shape and although I didn't celebrate my 30th in Paris with a pb, I still feel that running has helped me in making the transition and I'm very thankful to running that I wasn't a fat depressed bastard on my bday

alright woddle. happy 30th by the way! your only a young fella really ha. whats your mam and uncle like? that uncle is mad.
after saturday, up three rock mountain, i had a rest day on sunday. i got out monday morning/afternoon (didnt get outta bed early), ran to marley, did 5laps, and ran home. bout 18/19 miles, jogged it in under 3hours. was gonna do another lap, but i bottled it. still happy to do another long one.

your uncle "my coach", said 8mile easy Tuesday,Wednesday & Thursday, rest friday, and big again on saturday. he is mad. didnt get out today, wasnt able for it, i will go to marley tomorrow and thursday.
so i think ill go for one of your long runs on saturday morning. ill be in touch before hand.

thats some going, that schedule by pfitzinger. no doubt you'll be flying a 10k. your pb is 54mins?????? ya what, even your crazy uncle could beat ya haha

eliwallach · 15-04-2009 03:31PM

Sorry to hear about the Paris debacle - I've been there.
You deserved better, but as you know, we don't always get what we deserve

.
Back on the horse and a summer series of PB's to follow (that 10k time is just waiting to be smashed - by by-passing the 4X:xx and doing 39:xx?).
Hopefully Orobhsa, Robinph and myself can help banish any lingering marathon blues on the 1st June with a sub 3 hr relay to boost your spirits further :cool:.

Woddle · 18-04-2009 01:50PM

Well after 12 days of no running or any other form of exercise (also gained 10 lbs :eek: in the last 3 weeks) it was time to dust of the cobwebs before Monday sees me launching into a 12/13 week program which will now target the adidas 5 miler and not the 10k(although I will still be racing the 10k). I have decided to follow stupid privates way of thinking which will see me continue my 10k training schedule but try and get the Sunday run up to 15 miles before getting more specific marathon training in for Berlin( with about 8 weeks to go).
Sorry KevinKilbane for not meeting you for the 20 this morning between still being a little sick and rusty I don't think I was ever going to make it but I did get 5 in this afternoon.

5.14 miles in 44:31, pace 8:40
Average hr 79%, felt very tough, 12 days was too long without running.

Peckham · 18-04-2009 02:00PM

Good to see you back.

Any idea what sort of training plan you'll be going for in that 8 week lead-in to Berlin. I'll also be using a reduced training period. Have 16 weeks from when I get back from honeymoon until Berlin, and was thinking of splitting it with an interim target - i.e. half marathon or 10 miler. Could do with the Adidas 10 being a week or two sooner than it is; as it is it's 6 weeks before Berlin, would be much better interim target if 8 weeks before Berlin.

Wouldn't worry about those 10lbs - they'll again disappear in no time!

Woddle · 18-04-2009 02:42PM

Hi Peckham I sent you an email with the schedule I'll be foolowing. As regards the weight I seemed to have lost 2 of those 10 lbs already

Racing Flat · 18-04-2009 04:34PM

Woddle wrote: »

Monday sees me launching into a 12/13 week program which will now target the adidas 5 miler

Too hilly to be a good target race in relation to time.

"It's what you do next that counts"

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