DIT 4th year follow on course

fatchops · 27-03-2009 08:17PM #1

The meeting in Bolton Street was a fairly sedate affair. The first speaker was from visa first who outlined their services to assist tecchies with their visa applications for Auz, NZ and Canada, although of all the preferred skills in the powerpoint presentation, Architectural Technology didnt feature too often.
Cormac Allen then followed and presented the proposals for the full and part time hons degree course to be rolled out soon. The main emphasis was the srtucture of the two courses in accordance with the Barcelona Accord. One of the more interesting items I felt he mentioned was parity of esteem with Architects (long overdue), exciting times to be a tecchie and a student. There's a main event being arranged for May this year, all info will be posted on the web site.
A presentation from CODEMA in relation to DEAP and BER followed with regard to the proposed Part L changes for this year following on to 2016 and how to design to adapt to these changes. A big chance for Technicians to take the lead on this one and not to leave it for the M&E guys to gobble up.
All in all not a bad way to spend two and a bit hours on a cold Thursday evening

armchairninja · 28-03-2009 02:21PM

Interesting night alright, I got the feeling that the visa first guy geared his presentation more towards architects, and every now and then remembered he was addressing a room full of techies.
Found the part about the new course interesting, will be applying straight away for that, seems there could be a big opening in the energy ratings department alrite, good to see that the regulations are finally being sorted, not that they will be followed on site however!

pseudo-tech · 28-03-2009 02:52PM

fatchops wrote: »

Cormac Allen then followed and presented the proposals for the full and part time hons degree course [to be rolled out soon]. The main emphasis was the srtucture of the two courses in accordance with the Barcelona Accord. One of the more interesting items I felt he mentioned was parity of esteem with Architects (long overdue), exciting times to be a tecchie and a student. There's a main event being arranged for May this year, all info will be posted on the web site.

Was there a time line on when the courses would be rolled out or was it as mentioned above "to be rolled out soon"? If so, was the time line for rolling out the full and part time courses different. It would be nice to think that academia may for once have their finger on the pulse!

fatchops · 28-03-2009 03:37PM

As far as I can recall the courses will be advertised in September and the part time course starting around January. They will be heavily advertised, but it all depends on space in Bolton Strees and Staff, also the course fee has to be decided but i'm sure more information will be made available in May. Anyone please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong

armchairninja · 28-03-2009 05:56PM

Yea, the part time course is planned to commence in January, the reason being that having too many courses starting up at the one time might cause too many problems and its easier if they are spaced out. The cost of it will depend on the Budget in the coming weeks, until then, they can't make a decision iirc.
More info will be made available on the DIT site etc, when it comes closer to the commencement date, and through the IATGN also i'd imagine. But he was reluctant to put up too much information at the minute, in case others take it upon themselves to basically copy the set up and start up the course in another college, apparently other colleges were asked to come on board with this at the early stages, but declined, so now he wants to keep the detailed information scarce i think

pseudo-tech · 29-03-2009 12:18PM

armchairninja wrote: »

But he was reluctant to put up too much information at the minute, in case others take it upon themselves to basically copy the set up and start up the course in another college, apparently other colleges were asked to come on board with this at the early stages, but declined, so now he wants to keep the detailed information scarce i think

I really hope that you misunderstood the situation armchairninja. It would be a terrible situation if one Institute was taking a protectionist stance, for there own benefit in a time when we need co-operation and collaboration amongst the Technician community. This situation is not about one institute but about every graduate Technician in the Country!

topcatcbr · 29-03-2009 01:48PM

ITC, CIT and WIT already have hons degree courses. Is it a case of pot and kettle.

pseudo-tech · 29-03-2009 02:08PM

topcatcbr wrote: »

ITC, CIT and WIT already have hons degree courses. Is it a case of pot and kettle.

Would you mind clarifying what you mean by the above statement? It would be a terrible game that academia would be playing with people's careers!

armchairninja · 29-03-2009 04:13PM

I've been thinking about that myself, and hopefully it was just a misunderstanding on my behalf.

The other institutes that have the honours degree are not RIAI accredited afaik, I think WIT is only accredited to level 7, and that they're Level 8 is not RIAI accredited?, I am however open to correction on this

pseudo-tech · 29-03-2009 05:05PM

armchairninja wrote: »

I've been thinking about that myself, and hopefully it was just a misunderstanding on my behalf.

The other institutes that have the honours degree are not RIAI accredited afaik, I think WIT is only accredited to level 7, and that they're Level 8 is not RIAI accredited?, I am however open to correction on this

You are correct about none of the others having RIAI accreditation. However, I would be interested to hear whether your original assertion about the ITs trying to out do one another is correct or not. It would be a pitiful situation if DIT were holding back information to try to restrict another It or vice versa.

topcatcbr · 29-03-2009 05:29PM

What i mean is why would other IT's copy DIT's hons degree programme when the most of them are already running their own. And as it took DIT 5+ years to develop their addon how could another copy it and have it up and running before them.

pseudo-tech · 29-03-2009 05:38PM

topcatcbr wrote: »

What i mean is why would other IT's copy DIT's hons degree programme when the most of them are already running their own. And as it took DIT 5+ years to develop their addon how could another copy it and have it up and running before them.

What benefit is there to being secretive??

topcatcbr · 29-03-2009 05:51PM

pseudo-tech wrote: »

What benefit is there to being secretive??

I can think of none that make sense. I have been listening to this kind of thing for years now. It always seems to be around the corner.

I am booked onto a distance Masters for sept and i think i wont be changing my plans now.

pseudo-tech · 29-03-2009 08:01PM

topcatcbr wrote: »

I can think of none that make sense. I have been listening to this kind of thing for years now. It always seems to be around the corner.

I am booked onto a distance Masters for sept and i think i wont be changing my plans now.

Exactly the point. I have also heard these stories for years now. I also have had to go elsewhere to do my Masters. This links in with the concern i have spoken about ad nauseam, the same academics that are trying to out do one another are meant to be representing us on professional bodies. It leaves you wondering who is being served here.

Nice to hear people speak out about this! Nothing will ever change if we keep listening to the same old rhetoric that doesn't deliver any results!

armchairninja · 30-03-2009 12:10AM

Maybe I did take it up wrong, but as you said, what would be the reasons for being secretive, unless, they're just waiting until everything is finalised to release the details, that way it prevents confusion, or people getting the wrong idea, and then complaining?, as it is, the course is still being fine tuned with regard to content etc. afaik

fatchops · 30-03-2009 11:06AM

armchairninja wrote: »

Maybe I did take it up wrong, but as you said, what would be the reasons for being secretive, unless, they're just waiting until everything is finalised to release the details, that way it prevents confusion, or people getting the wrong idea, and then complaining?, as it is, the course is still being fine tuned with regard to content etc. afaik

I think the reason for this is that the ATI has gone to great lenghts over the last year or so to produce a water tight case for accreditation for the course and according to Cormac Allen there was quite a volume of documents produced to back this up. From what I can gather is that the course structure is one that has not been adapted by any other institute and to that end they dont want to be gazumped. With the RIAI accreditation on board the next stop must surely be The Law Society.

pseudo-tech · 30-03-2009 12:47PM

fatchops wrote: »

I think the reason for this is that the ATI has gone to great lenghts over the last year or so to produce a water tight case for accreditation for the course and according to Cormac Allen there was quite a volume of documents produced to back this up. From what I can gather is that the course structure is one that has not been adapted by any other institute and to that end they dont want to be gazumped. With the RIAI accreditation on board the next stop must surely be The Law Society.

Gazumped by whom??? Another I.T. So DIT wants competitive advantage over the other I.T.s. This is truly an appalling situation. This will ensure that graduates that attended DIT will have priority over people who graduated elsewhere. Great if you graduated from DIT but not if you graduated eleswhere. Why is academia so fragmented?? Again, i will raise the point that the very same academics that are trying to get one over on their academic counterparts are meant to be cooperating within ATI, RIAI for the general good of the Technician community. I think that this is a reflection on why there have been no inroads within these organisations to progress the situation that Technicians find themselves in.

sydthebeat · 30-03-2009 01:01PM

pseudo-tech wrote: »

Gazumped by whom??? Another I.T. So DIT wants competitive advantage over the other I.T.s. This is truly an appalling situation.

Lets enter the real world here PT....Colleges are businesses too. Their success and longevity depend on being one-step beyond their competitors and having the ability to provide a better service than others.

Where do you think the finances come to run a research and teaching college??

As DIT are making all the effort to get this follow-on course syllabus accredited and recognised, why should they make the details of the course available to competing colleges??

Once the course is up and running then the details will be there for all to see, otherwise i think DIT are competly correct and entitled to withhold this information??

pseudo-tech wrote: »

This will ensure that graduates that attended DIT will have priority over people who graduated elsewhere.

what possible evidence have you for that statement???

pseudo-tech · 30-03-2009 01:18PM

sydthebeat wrote: »

Lets enter the real world here PT....Colleges are businesses too. Their success and longevity depend on being one-step beyond their competitors and having the ability to provide a better service than others.

Where do you think the finances come to run a research and teaching college??

As DIT are making all the effort to get this follow-on course syllabus accredited and recognised, why should they make the details of the course available to competing colleges??

Once the course is up and running then the details will be there for all to see, otherwise i think DIT are competly correct and entitled to withhold this information??

My real world is about the good of all graduate Technicians not just the select few. DIT have been behind their competitors for a long time now and it is good to see them raise their profile again. However, I feel that this one up manship is closely related to how ATI is run. Where the different interests are looking after their own personal career and not the general good.

"As DIT are making all the effort to get this follow-on course syllabus accredited and recognised, why should they make the details of the course available to competing colleges??"

Because firstly its the right thing to do. The mantra that has come from the DIT academics over the last 2-3 years has centred around the professional development of all Technicians. I don't see that in the actions taken!!!

sydthebeat wrote: »

what possible evidence have you for that statement???

Firstly, when applications are finally made, the college will obviously favor their graduates over those from another Institute. Secondly geography, if you are not from or close to Dublin it may not suit someone to leave their family to go to college in Dublin.

armchairninja · 30-03-2009 01:31PM

Call me bias if you want, being a DIT grad, but I think it is only fair that for the min, DIT grads get a small level of priority, when I went into the course I was promised the honours course would be available, now it is, but its a year to late for me to just continue, so I am now going to have to apply, and depending on who else applies I still may not get it.
In reality all courses are the same, its guaranteed that there is some form of favouritism given towards grads of WIT's level 7 who want to do the Level 8, im nearly sure it says as much somewhere.

And the new syllabus that DIT as created, is a major step forward for the Technicial community, its been put together in a professional manner, not just thrown together to meet the demand, and as such I think that they may infact be right to hold off on releasing the details, as was said, other IT's were asked to come on board to devise the syllabus, not just for a level 8, but for a whole new way of teaching, and to change the landscape, DIT could easily have copied one of the earlier mentioned courses, but they didnt, and now that its available, I dont see why other institutions should be able to just take the content, without the hardwork, it just wouldnt seem right, in any context! As you said, if this is about the greater good of the AT community, why didnt all the other IT's jump at the chance to work on it?

sydthebeat · 30-03-2009 01:33PM

pseudo-tech wrote: »

Firstly, when applications are finally made, the college will obviously favor their graduates over those from another Institute. Secondly geography, if you are not from or close to Dublin it may not suit someone to leave their family to go to college in Dublin.

so you have no evidence to back up your claim.

pseudo-tech wrote: »

The mantra that has come from the DIT academics over the last 2-3 years has centred around the professional development of all Technicians. I don't see that in the actions taken!!!

I think you need to take a step back on this. I feel your falling foul of 'not seeing the wood for the trees'. You are claiming not to see action yet your posting in a thread dedicated to it.

pseudo-tech · 30-03-2009 01:54PM

sydthebeat wrote: »

so you have no evidence to back up your claim.

Look at post no 177 by arnchairninja a DIT graduate. If you feel that this is not the case then maybe its your goodself that 'cannot see the wood from the trees'.

I think you need to take a step back on this. I feel your falling foul of 'not seeing the wood for the trees'. You are claiming not to see action yet your posting in a thread dedicated to it.

The action is taken by one Institute which is positive action for a small group of Technicians not all Technicians who would benefit from all the I.T.s having RIAI or even CIAT accreditation. Its really not the time to be playing games or looking after your own career or college at this stage.

Don't get me wrong, i don't need a level 8 degree, so my comments are about others who have not had the opportunity to further their education to date.

From your post i will take it you graduated from DIT!!

sydthebeat · 30-03-2009 03:02PM

yes i graduated from DIT, but i dont see how or why this would make any difference for selection if i applied for a follow-on course... .which is my point.

I really dont understand your negativity at all. Cormac Allen and his collegues should be applauded and not castigated for their work.

jozi · 30-03-2009 03:12PM

I think we need Cormac on here to clarify a few things.

Surely in reality whats going to happen is DIT starts their new course and other colleges will follow with a similar setup (if DIT's is different to theirs).

I nearly think Cormac was being a little sarcastic on his reasons why he was holding back information, things are prob not full finalised as of yet.

sydthebeat · 30-03-2009 03:19PM

isnt WITs add-on year up and running??...

pseudo-tech · 30-03-2009 03:29PM

sydthebeat wrote: »

yes i graduated from DIT, but i dont see how or why this would make any difference for selection if i applied for a follow-on course... .which is my point.

I really dont understand your negativity at all. Cormac Allen and his collegues should be applauded and not castigated for their work.

I'm sure we are all entitled to our own opinions and in this case mine differs to yours. My opinion relates to the point raised. If academics are trying to out maneuver one another for advantage and them meeting seperately to discuss how to promote Architectural Technicians in general, i find it hard to see how this can be achieved with the participants not singing from the same hymn sheet. And that is for all the academics involved!

pseudo-tech · 30-03-2009 03:31PM

jozi wrote: »

I think we need Cormac on here to clarify a few things.

Surely in reality whats going to happen is DIT starts their new course and other colleges will follow with a similar setup (if DIT's is different to theirs).

I nearly think Cormac was being a little sarcastic on his reasons why he was holding back information, things are prob not full finalised as of yet.

That could also be the case as mentioned in a previous post. We are poorly represented from the I.T.s and from the professional bodies but there are some of us who are happy to clap like performing seals and accept the inadequate situation.

pseudo-tech · 30-03-2009 03:32PM

sydthebeat wrote: »

isnt WITs add-on year up and running??...

Yes!

muffler · 30-03-2009 03:36PM

Maybe a new thread for this. Syd?

sydthebeat · 30-03-2009 03:41PM

i agree

muffler · 30-03-2009 03:58PM

Thanks Syd. This will keep the place a bit tidier

DIT 4th year follow on course

Comments