Global Warming

JonnyMaguire · 05-03-2009 12:35pm

robtri wrote: »

he's not lying, your article just doesn't tell the full story......

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/2008/

here's the gloabl temp for 2008 from Nasa, even though 2008 was cooler, it still ranks in the top ten of warm years....

That article is a load of rubbish. The ten warmest years ever occured in the last 12. Yeah, now who is so dumb as to believe that.

Today it is March 2009, it was snowing last night.

djpbarry · 05-03-2009 12:38pm

JonnyMaguire wrote: »

Oh, it's very serious. We are going to be crippled with carbon taxes as a result of this scam. All these bought and paid for "scientists" should be hung from the lamp posts.

You want my data. Well I don't think the government hand out multi million euro "research" grants to heretics. You have to be on the wagon, as you well know.

Why are you getting your pay cheque? DIT research, yeah right. Propagandist.

Ah, I see we have another incarnation of Casey on our hands. Save it for CT.

JonnyMaguire wrote: »

Are you lying djp?

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/392789_murdockonline19.html

Nope. Data set from the UK Met Office is available here:
http://hadobs.metoffice.com/hadcrut3/diagnostics/global/nh+sh/annual

robtri · 05-03-2009 4:21pm

JonnyMaguire wrote: »

That article is a load of rubbish. The ten warmest years ever occured in the last 12. Yeah, now who is so dumb as to believe that.

Today it is March 2009, it was snowing last night.

If you read some of my old post, you will see I am anything but a global warming believer, the opposite I would say......
and I will believe Nasa over you any day of the week...

hoser expat · 05-03-2009 4:51pm

JonnyMaguire wrote: »

Are you lying djp?

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/392789_murdockonline19.html

Or maybe all the white coats are confusing you.

According to the National Climatic Data Center, 2008 will be America's coldest year since 1997, thanks to La Niña and precipitation in the central and eastern states. -- taken from your article above.

Too bad this says 'America's coldest year since 1997. I believe djBarry was talking global temperatures. Also another clue is in there....La Nina. Look it up.

Not since 1980 has there been a summer less reflective of global warming," Craig Medred wrote in the Anchorage Daily News. Consequently, Alaska's glaciers are thickening in the middle. "It's been a long time on most glaciers where they've actually had positive mass balance,"

One year of a positive mass balance does not significantly cause glaciers to grow....glaciers respond to longer-term climate than that.

derry · 05-03-2009 6:22pm

JonnyMaguire wrote: »

Be careful Derry, you might get sent here.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/3530607/Lawyers-call-for-international-court-for-the-environment.html

Of course, that is after the laws get expanded, as they always do. Remember the anti terror laws now being used on council bin "abusers".

Show me the way.If I could just get the biggest feck off engine ever made on on truck that produced gobs of power I would go down and park it outside the dail and light up the engine and rev the crap out of it so as to burn tons of fuel for hour per day with a big sign on it CO2 emmision are harmless and wait for the feckers to come to charge me with willfull destruction of the planet .In court they lose as as saying because I burn oil is bad but if they burn oil in thier private jets or heating systems in the Dail is good all because the CO2 global warming is based on junk science and you cant go discrimate who burns what oil.

I would like to use this kinda truck

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flPtV_TBpm8

but the fried to the pavement pedistrians would be a tad of an issue

so I soppose it best limited to this kinda truck

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwLpKG5TIZA

So if somebody has a big mother fecker truck to donate to the cause you know where it can find a new home

Also big truck needs to come on top of a low loader truck as well as I havent a truck licence so I can only legaly rev the crap out of the stationary truck engine when its on top of a low loader being transported

AS I would rev the engine burning gobs of fuel I would sing bring it on lets put this junk science CO2 on trial bring it on

Derry

JonnyMaguire · 06-03-2009 1:02pm

hoser expat wrote: »

Too bad this says 'America's coldest year since 1997. I believe djBarry was talking global temperatures. Also another clue is in there....La Nina. Look it up.

El Nino in 1998 was the reason for the warm temperatures in that year, maybe you should look that up.

What is it with you people.

JonnyMaguire · 06-03-2009 1:04pm

robtri wrote: »

If you read some of my old post, you will see I am anything but a global warming believer, the opposite I would say......
and I will believe Nasa over you any day of the week...

Well if you believe NASA, have a look at this;

http://www.thehotjoints.com/2009/01/28/global-warming-alarmist-james-hansens-former-nasa-supervisor-calls-him-an-embarrassment/

What now?

djpbarry · 06-03-2009 1:06pm

JonnyMaguire wrote: »

El Nino in 1998 was the reason for the warm temperatures in that year, maybe you should look that up.

How do you know it was particularly warm in 1998?

djpbarry · 06-03-2009 1:13pm

JonnyMaguire wrote: »

Well if you believe NASA, have a look at this;

http://www.thehotjoints.com/2009/01/28/global-warming-alarmist-james-hansens-former-nasa-supervisor-calls-him-an-embarrassment/

What now?

I'll ask you the same question I have asked of others who have posted that story (which seems to be confined exclusively to blogs); who is John S. Theon and why is his opinion of James Hansen so important?

JonnyMaguire · 06-03-2009 1:15pm

djpbarry wrote: »

How do you know it was particularly warm in 1998?

I remember that summer well, was playing golf in the USA. I develop my own opinions without recourse to "experts", is that allowed?

JonnyMaguire · 06-03-2009 1:22pm

djpbarry wrote: »

I'll ask you the same question I have asked of others who have posted that story (which seems to be confined exclusively to blogs); who is John S. Theon and why is his opinion of James Hansen so important?

He has a right to an opinion just like anyone else.

Who is Albert Gore, James Hansen and all these other global warming propagandists? Who are they to attempt a scam on me, to demand that I pay carbon taxes to companies which they own?

asdasd · 06-03-2009 1:22pm

I am not really taking sides here but he is

Dr. John S. Theon, the former supervisor of James Hansen

according to the link. You should follow links.

Now, if you mean - why is this guy important, or why should I listen to him, then you should say that. I think he is about as credentialed as hansen.

robtri · 06-03-2009 1:56pm

JonnyMaguire wrote: »

Well if you believe NASA, have a look at this;

http://www.thehotjoints.com/2009/01/28/global-warming-alarmist-james-hansens-former-nasa-supervisor-calls-him-an-embarrassment/

What now?

what now????? what the hell does that prove???

JonnyMaguire wrote: »

I remember that summer well, was playing golf in the USA. I develop my own opinions without recourse to "experts", is that allowed?

that comment has to be up there for dumbest comment of the year....
I remember the summer well, i was playing golf in the usa.... how in gods green earth does that tell you anything about the Global tempreture....

I accept that everyone is entitled to their opinions, but seriously can you expect anyone to take you seriously with a comment like that

djpbarry · 06-03-2009 2:04pm

JonnyMaguire wrote: »

I remember that summer well, was playing golf in the USA. I develop my own opinions without recourse to "experts", is that allowed?

So, in your opinion, it was quite warm on a golf course somewhere in the US in 1998? At what point did you (in your opinion, of course) link this event to El Nino?

JonnyMaguire wrote: »

He has a right to an opinion just like anyone else.

Indeed he does. What I am asking though is why is his opinion so important? His opinion was the basis for that blog article that you linked to, wasn’t it? So why (in your opinion) does his opinion carry so much weight? Don't you think his claim should be investigated before a conclusion can be reached?

JonnyMaguire wrote: »

Who is Albert Gore, James Hansen and all these other global warming propagandists?

James Hansen is a physicist, mathematician, astronomer and climatologist with numerous publications to his name. Al Gore is a politician/activist.

JonnyMaguire wrote: »

Who are they to attempt a scam on me, to demand that I pay carbon taxes to companies which they own?

I don’t recall either demanding any such thing.

asdasd wrote: »

I am not really taking sides here but he is

Dr. John S. Theon, the former supervisor of James Hansen

according to the link. You should follow links.

Indeed, according to that link, Theon was Hansen’s supervisor. However, according to this link, he was not. I am having difficulty finding a credible source to back up this claim.

asdasd wrote: »

Now, if you mean - why is this guy important, or why should I listen to him, then you should say that.

I quite clearly did.

asdasd wrote: »

I think he is about as credentialed as hansen.

Based on the available evidence, that does not seem to be the case, but that’s not really the point. I’m interested to know why so many people place so much stock in this blog article that has been doing the rounds lately. A guy who nobody has ever heard of (Theon) allegedly makes a claim about another guy who some may have heard of (Hansen) and a bunch of people accept this claim without question. Furthermore, the blog article states that some (all?) of Hansen's claims are based on "fraudulent science"; what claims are they referring to and in what way is this science "fraudulent"?

JonnyMaguire · 06-03-2009 2:10pm

robtri wrote: »

that comment has to be up there for dumbest comment of the year....
I remember the summer well, i was playing golf in the usa.... how in gods green earth does that tell you anything about the Global tempreture....

I accept that everyone is entitled to their opinions, but seriously can you expect anyone to take you seriously with a comment like that

You can only trust your own eyes these days.

Do you know much history?

The whole issue is this. The ordinary people are in no position to gather their own data. Therefore the only option is to evaluate the situation with what you have got, everyday analysis of local weather conditions.

Global temperature? In the old days the lord of the manor used to tell the people that those in the next area were out to get them, and so on. Totally manufactured to quell any thoughts of revolt.

Now we are told that, while this country is not warmer, those little polar bears are getting fried. Yeah?, well put one on the phone and I'll have a word with him.

JonnyMaguire · 06-03-2009 2:22pm

djpbarry wrote: »

So, in your opinion, it was quite warm on a golf course somewhere in the US in 1998? At what point did you (in your opinion, of course) link this event to El Nino?
Indeed he does. What I am asking though is why is his opinion so important? His opinion was the basis for that blog article that you linked to, wasn’t it? So why (in your opinion) does his opinion carry so much weight? Don't you think his claim should be investigated before a conclusion can be reached?

In my opinion, it was very warm. In my opinion he is calling out a fraud.

The El Nino effect is well known. Has been about for thousands of years, global warming was once known as global cooling (about 30 years ago).

djpbarry wrote: »

James Hansen is a physicist, mathematician, astronomer and climatologist with numerous publications to his name..

http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2007/09/global_warmer_h.html

I would call him a liar, you will probably state that he adapts as the evidence develops.

djpbarry wrote: »

Al Gore is a politician/activist.

Is that this Al Gore

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/02/28/an-inconveniently-easy-headline-gores-electric-bills-spark-debate/

One law for thr rich, eh?

djpbarry wrote: »

I don’t recall either demanding any such thing.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0305/1224242305699.html

Short memory.

djpbarry · 06-03-2009 3:09pm

JonnyMaguire wrote: »

You can only trust your own eyes these days.

Are your eyes equipped with thermometers?

JonnyMaguire wrote: »

The ordinary people are in no position to gather their own data. Therefore the only option is to evaluate the situation with what you have got, everyday analysis of local weather conditions.

What is stopping you from gathering data on local weather conditions?

JonnyMaguire wrote: »

Now we are told that, while this country is not warmer...

You sure about that?

JonnyMaguire wrote: »

In my opinion he is calling out a fraud.

So in your opinion (which is apparently based on the opinion of an essentially anonymous blogger, who's opinion is in turn based on the alleged opinion of one John Theon, a man we know virtually nothing about), James Hansen is a fraud. Do you have any evidence that he is a fraud, other than a blog article?

JonnyMaguire wrote: »

http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2007/09/global_warmer_h.html

I would call him a liar, you will probably state that he adapts as the evidence develops.

I'd have serious reservations about anyone who did not change their opinions in the face of new evidence. But anyway, the article states:
"The NASA research behind this hysteria was supported by a "computer program developed by Dr. James Hansen,"..."
How does developing a computer programme make him a liar?

JonnyMaguire wrote: »

Is that this Al Gore

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/02/28/an-inconveniently-easy-headline-gores-electric-bills-spark-debate/

One law for thr rich, eh?

What's your point? I'm not terribly interested in Al Gore's lifestyle.

JonnyMaguire wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0305/1224242305699.html

Short memory.

Where are the demands from Gore and Hansen for you to pay taxes to their companies? And what companies are we talking about?

robtri · 06-03-2009 3:42pm

JonnyMaguire wrote: »

You can only trust your own eyes these days.

Do you know much history?

The whole issue is this. The ordinary people are in no position to gather their own data. Therefore the only option is to evaluate the situation with what you have got, everyday analysis of local weather conditions.

Global temperature? In the old days the lord of the manor used to tell the people that those in the next area were out to get them, and so on. Totally manufactured to quell any thoughts of revolt.

Now we are told that, while this country is not warmer, those little polar bears are getting fried. Yeah?, well put one on the phone and I'll have a word with him.

you aren't worth the effort in responding, as you are completly deluded....
there all out to get us.....

baldieman · 06-03-2009 9:55pm

djpbarry wrote: »

James Hansen is a physicist, mathematician, astronomer and climatologist with numerous publications to his name.

Hmmm! but he's turning into a political activist, so like all politicians, can he be trusted?

Húrin · 07-03-2009 2:04am

JonnyMaguire wrote: »

You can only trust your own eyes these days.

Do you know much history?

The whole issue is this. The ordinary people are in no position to gather their own data. Therefore the only option is to evaluate the situation with what you have got, everyday analysis of local weather conditions.

Global temperature? In the old days the lord of the manor used to tell the people that those in the next area were out to get them, and so on. Totally manufactured to quell any thoughts of revolt.

Now we are told that, while this country is not warmer, those little polar bears are getting fried. Yeah?, well put one on the phone and I'll have a word with him.

What do you have against science Jonny? What is your authority on the state of the climate? Why is the news false simply because you don't like it?

JonnyMaguire · 07-03-2009 11:03am

djpbarry wrote: »

Are your eyes equipped with thermometers?
What is stopping you from gathering data on local weather conditions??

Time and finances. Know where I can get a research grant, (I know a few of the handshakes).

djpbarry wrote: »

You sure about that??

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7376301.stm

djpbarry wrote: »

So in your opinion (which is apparently based on the opinion of an essentially anonymous blogger, who's opinion is in turn based on the alleged opinion of one John Theon, a man we know virtually nothing about), James Hansen is a fraud. Do you have any evidence that he is a fraud, other than a blog article??

"The common enemy of humanity is man.
In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up
with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming,
water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill. All these
dangers are caused by human intervention, and it is only through
changed attitudes and behavior that they can be overcome.
The real enemy then, is humanity itself.

From The First Global Revolution. He is promoting a fraud, therefore he is either very stupid or a con man.

djpbarry wrote: »

I'd have serious reservations about anyone who did not change their opinions in the face of new evidence. But anyway, the article states:
"The NASA research behind this hysteria was supported by a "computer program developed by Dr. James Hansen,"..."
How does developing a computer programme make him a liar??

2+2=4. Computer programming is something similar. Only our white coats start out with 4 and work backwards, using formula that will take the data (after manipulation if required) and produce dreaded results.

http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/6983

djpbarry wrote: »

What's your point? I'm not terribly interested in Al Gore's lifestyle.
Where are the demands from Gore and Hansen for you to pay taxes to their companies? And what companies are we talking about?

Are you not interested in big Al's lifestyle. I could not care less either, the problem is that he is taking a massive interest in mine.

These companies here

http://newsbusters.org/node/11149

djpbarry · 07-03-2009 12:29pm

baldieman wrote: »

Hmmm! but he's turning into a political activist, so like all politicians, can he be trusted?

Whether or not he can be trusted is totally irrelevant. As has been said already on this thread, it is the claim that is important, not the claimant. The claim should be verifiable by consulting the available evidence, thus removing the claimant from the equation.

Is there a particular claim that has been made by James Hansen that contradicts the available evidence?

JonnyMaguire · 07-03-2009 12:51pm

djpbarry wrote: »

Is there a particular claim that has been made by Steve Hansen that contradicts the available evidence?

:rolleyes:

Steve is it?

As if people would fall for that one DJP.

djpbarry · 07-03-2009 12:54pm

JonnyMaguire wrote: »

djpbarry wrote: »

What is stopping you from gathering data on local weather conditions?

Time and finances.

Really? Even to collect temperature data? Only takes a few seconds each day and I doubt you need a research grant to buy a thermometer.

JonnyMaguire wrote: »

Know where I can get a research grant…

www.ircset.ie

JonnyMaguire wrote: »

djpbarry wrote: »

JonnyMaguire wrote: »

Now we are told that, while this country is not warmer...

You sure about that?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7376301.stm

You claim that Ireland has not gotten any warmer. I ask you for evidence of this. You produce an article entitled “Next decade 'may see no warming'”.

FAIL.

JonnyMaguire wrote: »

djpbarry wrote: »

So in your opinion (which is apparently based on the opinion of an essentially anonymous blogger, who's opinion is in turn based on the alleged opinion of one John Theon, a man we know virtually nothing about), James Hansen is a fraud. Do you have any evidence that he is a fraud, other than a blog article?

"The common enemy of humanity is man.
In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up
with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming,
water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill. All these
dangers are caused by human intervention, and it is only through
changed attitudes and behavior that they can be overcome.
The real enemy then, is humanity itself.

From The First Global Revolution. He is promoting a fraud, therefore he is either very stupid or a con man.

Well, I guess that’s a resounding ‘No’.

So some guy puts together a book, in which it is claimed that pollution, global warming, water shortages, famine “and the like” were identified as a sort of common enemy against which, humanity could be united. From this you deduce that global warming is not real. But I’m confused; are pollution, water shortages and famine not real? Suppose that paragraph read as follows:

"The common enemy of humanity is man. In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that AIDS, cancer, Malaria, Tuberculosis and the like would fit the bill.”

Would you then conclude that all of those diseases are fictional?

JonnyMaguire wrote: »

2+2=4. Computer programming is something similar. Only our white coats start out with 4 and work backwards, using formula that will take the data (after manipulation if required) and produce dreaded results.

http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/6983

From the article:

“ Many of the adjustments are quite necessary, such as time of observation adjustments, adjustments for changing equipment, and adjustments for changing site locations and/or urbanization.
…
Warming has occurred in the 20th century. The exact number is unclear, but we have much better data via satellites now that have shown a warming trend since 1979, though that trend is lower than the one that results from surface temperature measurements with all these discretionary adjustments.”

You’ll also note that temperature data sets, such as this one, have great big ranges of uncertainty that gradually narrow as we approach the present.

Further, you might point out some errors in Hansen’s programme for our consideration.

JonnyMaguire wrote: »

Are you not interested in big Al's lifestyle.
…
http://newsbusters.org/node/11149

I’m not remotely interested in anything Al Gore says or does. I’ve said in the past that he’s a hypocrite and I stand by that. Regarding the article you’ve linked to, where does it state that you are being forced to pay taxes to Generation Investment Management?

djpbarry · 07-03-2009 12:56pm

JonnyMaguire wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Steve is it?

As if people would fall for that one DJP.

Typo fixed. Care to answer the question?

AngryHippie · 08-03-2009 10:44am

The only way to improve our weather and climate models is to use them, measure the divergence in results from actual events, and then adjust the equations accordingly. While the mathematics can be very complex The models are not as simple as adding up carbon figures, they were designed to take into account normal climatic occurences such as El Nino and La Nina, The overall conclusion, i.e the result that the majority of the experiment exhibited was for an overall increase see http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/climateexperiment/theresult/globalcontext.shtml While the results may not be perfect, or even remotely accurate, they can be checke against the monotored change in conditions over the short term, and refined, and run once again, which will certainly lead to more accurate results. Its not a wailing siren, but merely a distant cloud on the horizon. The more we can find out about it, the more prepared we will be. But to perform a pile of macro-matics with some numbers off wikipedia and pretend they mean anything is a little bit of an insult to the climatologists and mathematicians that sat down and constructed and reconstructed and honed the models that are used. This is probably gonna pi$$ some people who fancy their hand at maths off, but seriously produce some papers on climate modelling and advanced calculus before you bother the next time.

bonkey · 08-03-2009 11:17am

JonnyMaguire wrote: »

Today it is March 2009, it was snowing last night.

Local weather is certainly a nail in the coffin of global, climatological shift.

Oh, wait. It isn't. My bad.

baldieman · 08-03-2009 7:15pm

djpbarry wrote: »

Whether or not he can be trusted is totally irrelevant. As has been said already on this thread, it is the claim that is important, not the claimant. The claim should be verifiable by consulting the available evidence, thus removing the claimant from the equation.

Is there a particular claim that has been made by James Hansen that contradicts the available evidence?

Is there a particular claim? yes, AGW
Now, even if the river shannon was frozen solid enough for a truck to drive across, you would probably still say it's just a weather event.
But this is for other readers out there who might be open minded.

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=1a5e6e32-802a-23ad-40ed-ecd53cd3d320

djpbarry · 08-03-2009 9:01pm

baldieman wrote: »

Is there a particular claim? yes, AGW

You might be a little more specific? How about a quote or something Hansen authored?

baldieman wrote: »

But this is for other readers out there who might be open minded.

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=1a5e6e32-802a-23ad-40ed-ecd53cd3d320

Eh, that's the same story on a different blog.

asdasd · 11-03-2009 11:58am

A reference from WorldNetNews?

I have question, and it is related to the difference in Earth temperatures measured every year.

I wonder why - absent of global warming - any year is different to the next. That is: assuming that energy coming in is the same, why are there any fluctuations at all yearly? The sun has been largely dis-regarded when it comes to AGW, so that cant be the answer.

Is this a measurement problem? If we are told that El Nina results in a cold year what does that mean exactly? Movements of water on the Earth's surface must be energy netural ( right?). So it seems that we are measuring the average of weather across the synoptic stations, because El Nina causes the places where these stations happen to be concentrated to get colder. Somewhere else, not measured so easily, gets warmer.

( Or is El Nina releasing previously stored energy from the depths?)

Global Warming

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