'Cultural differences'

08-03-2009 09:45AM #1

Living abroad at the moment, as I have done many times, I'm having a lot of problems with my flatmate. I should start by saying I've lived in 8-10 flatshares and never had a real problem before. The last few places I lived in Dublin they were begging me not to go and took ages to find a suitable replacement - not tooting my own horn, but to make it clear that I'm generally considered a very good flatmate. I'm not loud, not particularly messy, don't hog the TV, basically don't make myself a nuisance and try to stay out of peoples' way. Living in Belgium now and I seem to annoy the hell out of my flatmate. When I come into the place, I say hello and usually ask how her day was, or some other small talk. Got up this morning, said good morning and asked was she out last night to which she got annoyed and said she felt like I was interrogating her? :eek: It was polite small talk ffs! I've never NOT been asked that question in Dublin when I met a flatmate over the weekend. I had a similar issue when I worked in Spain as an au pair, the mother would say they were going out for the day and I asked 'ah very nice, where are you heading?' and she accused me of being nosy and interrogating! Now in my mind this is a very twisted and quite nasty logic - taking a polite interest in someone is considered nosy? I've always been brought up to ask people about themselves and not go on about myself. Is this an Irish thing? I'd much rather have a polite little chat upon meeting in the kitchen than awkward silence. I feel it's ignorant not to talk. And I'd be a quite type myself and keep to myself, but I believe not making an effort is rude.

Has anyone else experienced this sort of thing? I've lived in a lot of places and am three nationalities myself, so I'm not some ignorant buffoon. This exchange this morning has left me extremely homesick. As much as Dublin has been annoying me recently, I miss being able to have a 2 minute chat with a flatmate without getting my head bitten off

nyarlothothep · 08-03-2009 10:27AM

Some people can't stand small talk. I don't particularly like being asked about my day or how I am etc. It does feel like prying and its my business to divulge it or not. You should try to understand some people don't like it, or don't see the need to talk at every opportunity.

samhail · 08-03-2009 10:31AM

im the opposite to nyar, you talk to people to get more cultured and experience more. i dont know many belgium people so i wont generalise

id move outta there. give your notice when she comes home today.

08-03-2009 10:35AM

Some people can't stand small talk. I don't particularly like being asked about my day or how I am etc. It does feel like prying and its my business to divulge it or not. You should try to understand some people don't like it, or don't see the need to talk at every opportunity.

I do understand that, as I said, I'm a quiet and private person myself. But you really think it's normal to say NOTHING to someone you live with? If you don't want to discuss your life, you just say 'ah I'm grand thanks' or 'not up to much at the minute' and change the topic. I'd consider that the bare minimum of interaction when you live with someone, if I couldn't manage that, I'd get my own place. I don't see how saying 'morning, did ya head out last night?' is 'talking at every opportunity' if that's ALL you say, all day! :eek:

Caoimhín · 08-03-2009 10:36AM

It is easy enough to make small talk without even asking a question. Maybe you could just test the water with this person when you meet them first thing. Comment on the weather or say that you feel good today, that way you are leaving the door open for comment. If your flatmate doesnt like to chat then leave it at that.

I was once told by an African friend of mine that some Africans in Ireland find it uncomfortable when an irish person asks "where are you from?". To me that question is one of the first things that comes naturally when talking to anyone, irish or not.

Also, i have found myself, that many Asians tend to stand a little too close to me than i find comfortable. I read somewhere that this is not that unusual as the area around ones "comfort/personal space" is smaller in many Asian countries.

So yes, there are little quirks and cultural/personality differences that people might find a little unusual in each other.

bluecell99 · 08-03-2009 10:42AM

Sounds like a thick ignormus and you should hand in your notice today.You are perfectly normal.people who object to small talk and polite conversation are abnormal.Dont be put off or change yourself for some looper.Move on.

Dutchie_in_DUB · 08-03-2009 10:59AM

I am myself a Dutch person living in Dublin. And have to say Irish people are very chatty and like to know things. This can be taken as being nosy or interrogative. I have learned that this is just that they are interested or even like to make small talk. Knowing the Belgian culture a bit, they are quite stand-off-ish (if this is a word) and seem to be not that chatty as you irish yourselves. My advise is, definitely do NOT move out or even think that all Belgians or foreigners are ignorant. Cause by moving away from a beautiful country like Belgian would show ignorance, in my idea. Maybe sit her down and explain and have a sort of chat with her to get to know her. By explaining things of your culture or getting to know people, many hurdles can be overcome. Give it time and if she is still not warming up to you, well then it could just be the fact that you two just not agree. This could just be a personal thing and has nothing to do with you or her, that just happens.
Good luck in Belgium and enjoy being there. Life is different there, but has many great things. Give it a shot! And respect to you for leaving the security of you own country and culture, and being willing to get to know what is outside of your beautiful island.

neuro-praxis · 08-03-2009 12:37PM

I have had the same experience with some German people. I was being generally chatty, friendly - making attempts to get to know others at parties etc. (incidentally - the most boring parties I have ever been to in my life!) and heard back that I had been interrogating the guests. In Ireland I make friends easily and would not be considered nosy or pushy. I also met an Irish friend's German girlfriend, and in an attempt to welcome her, had asked her lots about herself and was as engaging as possible. She took great offense to this, responded monosyllabically and complained afterwards to my friend, who tried to put her right.

Having said that, I have some German friends who are equally as chatty and interested as the Irish. So it's very difficult to know how to behave at times, I feel your pain. When you're not in your home country, to some degree you have to just suck it up. I mean, what can you do? You were just being nice and your flatmate is offended. Perhaps take five minutes to explain how Irish people relate to one another, and apologise if you inadvertently caused any upset. If this doesn't break the ice, she's a cow. Move out.

08-03-2009 01:01PM

I have had the same experience with some German people. I was being generally chatty, friendly - making attempts to get to know others at parties etc. (incidentally - the most boring parties I have ever been to in my life!) and heard back that I had been interrogating the guests. In Ireland I make friends easily and would not be considered nosy or pushy.

Yeah! It's so strange. I'd even be considered quiet to most Irish people, so I know I'm not the 'bubbly' type, which can be annoying to some. The question is, how do Germans interact, then? If a question like 'where are you from?' or 'did you do anything exciting over the weekend?' is an interrogation, what are you supposed to say?

Affable · 08-03-2009 01:48PM

Tbh I think there's a lot to be said for living in your home culture, even if that can seem dull at times. You feel more entitled then.
Tbh I've had these abrasive social encounters, often with Americans who I have problems with, there are tons over here. Just try and focus on other stuff and not dwell on it. There'll always be people you don't get on with and as this thread demonstrates, though it can feel that way, everyone experiences this.

daveirl · 08-03-2009 01:53PM

This post has been deleted.

acontadino · 08-03-2009 01:58PM

the weather seems to be a very popular conversation starter i have seen.

girl in my class was from cologne, said she didn't really like germany that much, i thought she was mad, but she seems to think the irish are much more friendly and fun than the germans. however i found berliners to be very nice..so maby its just people being selective.

op ive never noticed these cultural differences, have many spanish friends who i got to know and they seem to be pretty much the same as any irish teenagers in the way they act.

Terodil · 08-03-2009 02:29PM

I can see how this could be an issue, communication patterns (i.e. the order in which topics are addressed) are just different according to cultures. For example, whereas Americans would not hesitate to approach the topic of pay on the first night, Irish people would probably wait a couple of evenings before they asked, but Germans (and maybe Dutch) would address the subject very very late, if at all. Germans tend to be much more business-oriented when new to each other, usually ask about what you *do*, not what you *are*. When meeting in the evenings, the same applies, hobbies etc. > personal details. Private stuff (income, CV, ...) is pretty much off-limits at first and you'll need to become more friendly with them or it'll go down as 'nosy'.

I'll go out on a limb and suggest a non-nosy order of topics for Germans xD

1. weather
2. events of common interest
3. job / hobbies
4. age, salary etc
5. ...

Jack B. Badd · 08-03-2009 03:44PM

If someone asked me about my salary, I would consider it extremely rude. Do people actually include that as a part of "small talk"?

MJOR · 08-03-2009 03:52PM

I'D be quite chatty but had this housemate that i just didn't like. I actually couldn't even bear to make small talk with her because i just couldn't stand her... i am not saying this is the case with you but maybe you guys just aren't suited!

valleyoftheunos · 08-03-2009 04:37PM

OP

I travel back and forth to Belgium pretty much once a month so I feel experienced enough to tar them all with one brush!:D

I'm guessing you are living in Brussels but if you are up in Flanders things might be a bit different.

In general I have found Belgian (in Brussels) people to be quite nice mostly but also very dour, a little unfriendly and sometimes just a bit miserable. So dont see many people smiling on the streets where as just up the road (so to speak) in Amsterdam they never stop smiling.

The other thing to think of is that Continental European people have a different attitude and approach to "small talk" thn we do. If an Irish person asks another Irish person "how are you?" the only answer they want or expect is "Grand" we dont really want to know how somebody is in anything but the broadest terms if at all.

on the other hand if you ask the same question to a German, a French person or a Belgian "how are you?" and if they know you well they will spend 10 minutes telling you about how they have been a little bit constipated for a few days and that their athlete's foot is getting worse and all sorts of other things that you never wanted to know.

If they dont know you, and your flatmate probably feels she doesn't, they will probably be quite taken a back and think its a somewhat intrusive question.

You say all that in your OP so really I'm just agreeing with you. They have different attitudes to small chat and when to be friendly etc. Dont let it bother you, dont take it personally and try to remember that they might misunderstand what you mean by your banter!

LegacyUser · 08-03-2009 04:44PM

To be honest, I'm living with 2 others and lived with same people last year. One I get on with, the other I don't. Whilst I wouldn't have any confrontations with her, I don't get on with her and don't talk to her much. We're completely different people. Every day I come in from work she says "Hi how was your day?" and I find it SO irritating. I can't be arsed making small talk with her, I don't ask her about her day because frankly I don't care. I'm not a nasty person, but we're not alike in any way except the same field of work but that's not enough for me to tolerate her so I just avoid her in case I snap at her [which she doesn't deserve either] but it's just the way I feel!!!

Polleta · 08-03-2009 05:30PM

I was going out with a UK guy who lived in Brussels a while ago and on a visit to cork we were checking out of a hotel. I was just signing the bill and chatting to the receptionist who asked what we were up to for the day etc and have general chit chat.

As we were walking out to me car he said he though the receptionist was being really nosey asking what we were doing for the day until I answered as normal and he said it just made him realise how much friendlier Irish people were in general in these general chit chat situations.

Your flatmate will get used to you in time just give him/her a chance to understand the slightly different culture we live in.

In the same way you weren't being rude they were probably just taken aback by what they viewed as a seriously personal question. As someone else said maybe explain the way people are here.

08-03-2009 06:28PM

To be honest, I'm living with 2 others and lived with same people last year. One I get on with, the other I don't. Whilst I wouldn't have any confrontations with her, I don't get on with her and don't talk to her much. We're completely different people. Every day I come in from work she says "Hi how was your day?" and I find it SO irritating. I can't be arsed making small talk with her, I don't ask her about her day because frankly I don't care. I'm not a nasty person, but we're not alike in any way except the same field of work but that's not enough for me to tolerate her so I just avoid her in case I snap at her [which she doesn't deserve either] but it's just the way I feel!!!

See this is the thing. I just can't understand how anyone could be irritated by something so small. If being asked 'how was your day?' is enough to irritate you, maybe you're not suited to living with other people? What's so hard about just saying 'grand thanks' and going about your business? I totally understand wanting your space and privacy but at the same time I think it's unfair to live with others and act like they're a nuisance to you. I had a flatmate last year who used to come home and sit in his room all night. Didn't ever cook or watch TV in the flat. When we did ever meet him in the living room, he was cordial and polite and we had a little chat. I only spoke to him every 2 weeks or so but when I did, he was polite and I never went away feeling awkward. If he had sat in the living room every night and never said a word to us, that would have been a different story.

Maybe it's just me, but if I couldn't stand even saying good morning to someone, I'd get my own bedsit. I live my own life, I have my own friends, but as far as I'm concerned, if I have flatmates, I've an obligation to have a little chat to them when I see them around the place, whether I like them or not. Just 'hey hows it going?' or 'good day?' What does a few words cost? If I REALLY don't want to talk, I'll hide in my room. I think it's plain rude to sit in a shared space in say nothing.

As we were walking out to me car he said he though the receptionist was being really nosey asking what we were doing for the day until I answered as normal

But how could anyone think a hotel receptionist cared what they were doing? Just seems a bit.....arrogant or something to assume they were doing anything but making polite small talk? I worked in a hotel in NYC and we were instructed to ask why the guests had come to NY and what they were going to do when they came to check in. Nobody acted shocked or confused. I suppose the Belgians just don't ask things like this, they stick to 'business' talk and get the job done.

LegacyUser · 08-03-2009 07:54PM

I met 2 swedish girls while travelling and they said that they are very stand offish until they get to know/trust someone. Being a bit of a gabby irishman I eventually wore them down and they were really nice once and outgoing.

They said it was just a cultural thing, but they said that because they knew Irish people are chatty they didnt mind me

Affable · 08-03-2009 08:44PM

Unregistered wrote: »

I met 2 swedish girls while travelling and they said that they are very stand offish until they get to know/trust someone. Being a bit of a gabby irishman I eventually wore them down and they were really nice once and outgoing.

They said it was just a cultural thing, but they said that because they knew Irish people are chatty they didnt mind me

Swedish people are very reserved I find. I felt bad cos some of the Swedes U've know are really nice, I think English people are kinda bolshy in comparison.

mcyclist · 09-03-2009 07:50AM

wimba wrote: »

Every day I come in from work she says "Hi how was your day?" and I find it SO irritating. I can't be arsed making small talk with her, I don't ask her about her day because frankly I don't care. I'm not a nasty person, but !!!

I assume your flat mate would not share that view. What a nasty attitude to someone who, by your own post, has never done anything to you.

OP, many people find the Irish tendency to ask questions to be a little intrusive. But you can make small talk WITHOUT asking about them. You are in a new city so ask about some more neutral things like the museums, restaurants ( many excellent in Brussels) etc. And take it slowly. By the way, a lot of Europeans make a big distinction between those who are friends and those who are acquaintances so don't be insulted by this.

Oh The Humanity · 09-03-2009 10:29AM

wimba wrote: »

To be honest, I'm living with 2 others and lived with same people last year. One I get on with, the other I don't. Whilst I wouldn't have any confrontations with her, I don't get on with her and don't talk to her much. We're completely different people. Every day I come in from work she says "Hi how was your day?" and I find it SO irritating. I can't be arsed making small talk with her, I don't ask her about her day because frankly I don't care. I'm not a nasty person, but we're not alike in any way except the same field of work but that's not enough for me to tolerate her so I just avoid her in case I snap at her [which she doesn't deserve either] but it's just the way I feel!!!

With respect this kind of attitude REALLY bugs me.

Its not enough for me to tolerate her

Has it not occurred to you that this girl might not like you either and is simply trying to oil the wheels of interaction in the place she is living. IF we were to go around grunting like cretins at everyone we didn't like the world would be in worse trouble. She is tolerating YOU so get over yourself and pass yourself with the girl.

'People who hate small talk' have got to stop being so conceited and thinking that the asker is motivated by a burrning desire to know 'their business'

They are not, they are simply trying to be polite and avoid an 'awkward silence' They are no more interested in your business than the man in the moon, and to imagine they are is very conceited and self absorbed.

OP, I make one decent effort with most people, if I am rudely rebuffed well fcuk em dont bother wasting your breath on ignorant people any more.

If they are so full of themselves that they actually believe you are stopping your day to nose into their business, dont bother, leave them to their delusions, they will grow up some day and remember their idiocy with embarassment.

LegacyUser · 09-03-2009 10:50AM

I find that in Europe you should never ask a person about something personal until you spent a lot of time together to be comfortable about it. Even a 'how are you' can seem offensive to strangers.

I've travelled a lot and find while in Germany and Belgium i had to talk to people about things around them like famous landmarks and touristy things before we really got chatting about myself and where I come from. It kind of eased me into a normal conversation.

In Poland and Russia all I got for my questions was YES or NO. No talking. No personal questions until topic turned to what they all know, Vodka. That loosened their tongue as they all think they know better than the europeans about these things

Everyone's different though. May be you should keep away from personal subjects and just pretend to be a complete stranger to their ways and ask your flatmate for advise on where to go to find out about their culture? It might make her understand you more?

LegacyUser · 09-03-2009 11:59AM

I met a Polish guy, the owner of the hostel I was staying in Krakow when I was backpacking and he was really friendly, real chatty but he did admit that alot of poles can be quiet, especially older ones- he put it down to a kind of "culture of silence" which existed throughout the Soviet occupation- apparantly people even neighbours, would go to the secret police and give them information so people became very suspicious/paranoid about anyone who they thought was trying to get info out of them.

Great country- I highly recommend it (The Salt mines in Krakow were spectacular)

09-03-2009 12:19PM

Has it not occurred to you that this girl might not like you either and is simply trying to oil the wheels of interaction in the place she is living. IF we were to go around grunting like cretins at everyone we didn't like the world would be in worse trouble. She is tolerating YOU so get over yourself and pass yourself with the girl.

This would be my thinking. I don't agree with being 'fake' but what harm does exchanging a few polite words do? I'm not naturally social so I had to learn 'small talk' when I was 10-11, I was told to consider other peoples' feelings and that sometimes things need to be done to make others comfortable. Do some people not learn this? How can you think its OK to completely ignore someone? Just seems like a huge lack of maturity and respect to me. It's very common and normal not to get along great with flatmates, so you say hello when you see them, be polite and civil. If that's difficult for someone it makes me wonder what kind of person they are, tbh. So busy and important they can't find the time to say 'my day was grand, thanks, you?' :eek:

LegacyUser · 09-03-2009 12:30PM

[quote=[Deleted User];59340394]This would be my thinking. I don't agree with being 'fake' but what harm does exchanging a few polite words do? I'm not naturally social so I had to learn 'small talk' when I was 10-11, I was told to consider other peoples' feelings and that sometimes things need to be done to make others comfortable. Do some people not learn this? How can you think its OK to completely ignore someone? Just seems like a huge lack of maturity and respect to me. It's very common and normal not to get along great with flatmates, so you say hello when you see them, be polite and civil. If that's difficult for someone it makes me wonder what kind of person they are, tbh. So busy and important they can't find the time to say 'my day was grand, thanks, you?' :eek:[/QUOTE]

I totally agree. I am very shy and self conscious but I was also brought up to put other peoples feelings before my own.

I struggle to make small talk myself but I understand it is necessary and put my own awkward feelings aside in order to make others feel comfortable.

There is no excuse for plain ignorance, its just self indulgence.

JC 2K3 · 09-03-2009 02:08PM

nyarlothothep wrote: »

Some people can't stand small talk. I don't particularly like being asked about my day or how I am etc. It does feel like prying and its my business to divulge it or not. You should try to understand some people don't like it, or don't see the need to talk at every opportunity.

wimba wrote: »

To be honest, I'm living with 2 others and lived with same people last year. One I get on with, the other I don't. Whilst I wouldn't have any confrontations with her, I don't get on with her and don't talk to her much. We're completely different people. Every day I come in from work she says "Hi how was your day?" and I find it SO irritating. I can't be arsed making small talk with her, I don't ask her about her day because frankly I don't care.

I'd be similar, depending on my mood. Sometimes, if someone I don't want to talk to attempts to make small talk with me, I just get so irritated. It depends on the person though, generally it's really just people who irritate me full stop that this happens with.

Oh The Humanity wrote: »

They are not, they are simply trying to be polite and avoid an 'awkward silence' They are no more interested in your business than the man in the moon, and to imagine they are is very conceited and self absorbed.

Why are people so uncomfortable with silence? I never understand this and would find bugging someone else to talk so that they don't feel awkward to some across as quite insecure.

Craft25 · 09-03-2009 03:30PM

did you ever stay in a culture that has a much closer distance threshold than ours? Where people would choose the seat right beside you on the sofa even if theres loads of space, and have no problem walking in and out of everybody's rooms.. i get that from some south americans & even though i think they are great people & totally respect them it just totally creeps me out..

I'd imagine that's how she feels a bit, like you're crossing the border into her space... maybe she's less culturally aware than you are and is unable to see that it is just your different way & that you werent digging..

Personally i'd let her know, "im sorry it's not normal to say hi in your culture but in mine it's not normal to snap at someone first thing in the morning, do it again and find out!!" - stand up for urself!!

Oh The Humanity · 09-03-2009 03:43PM

I dont think its that people are uncomfortable with silence, but that they are uncomfortable with a hostile silence.

To me silence is a precious luxury to be enjoyed and savoured.

The understood protocol is a simple word or two in passing which then allows both people to fall back into a nice neutral peace.

So I in no way see passing a few kind words with someone who lives in close proximity with me to be any kind of realistic compromise on the enjoyment of silence.

No one wants to share with some moody teenager type sulking in the corner, avoiding eye contact and spitting with venom every time someone aknowledges their presence.

Its precious and diva like behaviour.

Nitxteha · 09-03-2009 05:17PM

I don't think that's cultural differences, politeness is international.

Some people get along better than others, try not to force situations. Obviously you want to be friendly but she may just want to share the place and have no interaction with her flatmates.

If you feel comfortable that way just be correct and don't "bother" her. But if you want to have a different atmosphere at home, try to find another place.

'Cultural differences'

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