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Taxi driver protest

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    #62
    Taxipete29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Taxipete29


    jack90210 wrote: »
    Yeh but you have a mountain of other start up costs also. Every business has start up costs. So taximen want to get rid of the 6500? The only barrier to entry they have remaining? Plasters also have to go through years of training to get to that point.

    No of course not, my point is that its a licence fee and that if the Government want to licence an industry they should regulate it appropriatly and not allow the regulator to sit on a report from Goodbodys for 3 months.

    I suspect that this report recommends an immediate cap on plates to allow for reform, just as drivers are asking for and the regulator is holding it up to avoid looking stupid as she has been told this over and over


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    #63
    jack90210
    Closed Accounts Posts: 214 ✭✭jack90210


    A taxi driver could be on the road in a matter of weeks. A plaster has to go through years of training absorbing the opportunity cost of engaging in better paid work such as taxidriving but ultimately unskilled and therefore in the long run they deserve to make better wages. So why again should we limit entrants to an unskilled, easy to do industry? This 6500 thing is rubbish as I have just pointed out you are not considering opportunity cost when comparing your industry to others.


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    #64
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Karlmartini1 wrote: »
    I suspect the taxi drivers demands for regulation only apply to limiting the number of plates. If there was a requirement for london type cabs only and a difficult 'knowlege' test to pass and various other types of restrictions they would be protesting that also. It's also worth noting how many times I have had to listen to taxi drivers complaining about all the black taxi drivers in Dublin. I once had a driver who who made a point of noting down the taxi plate number of every black taxi driver he saw. What he was going to do with this information, I don't know. I'm not saying all taxi drivers are racists but some are and some have no problem venting their racism to passengers.

    People keep bringing up a comparison with New York. It should be noted that New York taxi medallions have been known to trade for up to $600,000. Many of these taxis are driven 24 hours a day in 3 shifts by drivers who will never have a hope of owning their own medallion.

    Another complaint I have is being passed by a taxi with the light on on a saturday night, only to see the same taxi stop 50 yards past me to pickup a group of 4 simply because he will make more money carrying a group.


    Read the posts, we want a temporary cap on plates as a start point, I'm glad you agree that not all taxi drivers are racists much the same as customers ( being a NN myself, but having lived in Dublin for the last 18 years, I can vouch for this ), as to NY medallions, no transferability of licenses easily sorts that and as for driving past you to pick up a fare down the road, at this present moment thats a highly unlikely scenario, you'd be more likely to get 2 or 3 cabs claimimg they saw you 1st..


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    #65
    Taxipete29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Taxipete29


    Karlmartini1 wrote: »
    I suspect the taxi drivers demands for regulation only apply to limiting the number of plates. If there was a requirement for london type cabs only and a difficult 'knowlege' test to pass and various other types of restrictions they would be protesting that also. It's also worth noting how many times I have had to listen to taxi drivers complaining about all the black taxi drivers in Dublin. I once had a driver who who made a point of noting down the taxi plate number of every black taxi driver he saw. What he was going to do with this information, I don't know. I'm not saying all taxi drivers are racists but some are and some have no problem venting their racism to passengers.

    Most drivers are in favour of a more difficult test.
    Im not racist by any means but how do drivers pass a test when they dont know where Stephans Green is??? And these stories of immigrant drivers not having a clue where they are going are not urban legends. There has been rumours for a long time that immigrant drivers dont need to score as highly on the test to pass as Irish ones do, how true this is I dont know, but they seem to have some merit considering the appaling knowledge of alot of immigrant taxi drivers.

    Concerning the guy writing down the plate numbers, there is a major amount of illegal cabs operating in the city. They have cloned licences. This while not an exclusively immigrant issue, it seems to be more previlant wiht them. Point being perhaps he was watching out for this kind of operation.

    People keep bringing up a comparison with New York. It should be noted that New York taxi medallions have been known to trade for up to $600,000. Many of these taxis are driven 24 hours a day in 3 shifts by drivers who will never have a hope of owning their own medallion.
    If they trade for that kind of money, drivers can obviously make a decent living driving for 8 hours

    Another complaint I have is being passed by a taxi with the light on on a saturday night, only to see the same taxi stop 50 yards past me to pickup a group of 4 simply because he will make more money carrying a group.

    One guy or girl on there own are not ideal passengers on a saturday night as they are the most troublesome group of passengers you can have. They fall asleep and you cant wake them up, they have no money in some cases, they are more likely to get sick in the car and they are more likely to do a runner.


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    #66
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    jack90210 wrote: »
    A taxi driver could be on the road in a matter of weeks. A plaster has to go through years of training absorbing the opportunity cost of engaging in better paid work such as taxidriving but ultimately unskilled and therefore in the long run they deserve to make better wages. So why again should we limit entrants to an unskilled, easy to do industry? This 6500 thing is rubbish as I have just pointed out you are not considering opportunity cost when comparing your industry to others.

    Realy.....
    You can become a qualified Plasterer in just 6 weeks of training!
    You can gain the City & Guilds 6217 Plastering qualification in just six weeks, the intensive courses are excellent in getting you up to the required standard to enter the work place.
    You will be trained in a purpose built environment and will be plastering walls from day one.
    http://www.plastering-courses.info/?gclid=CKGK_bzFjJkCFQ0zQgodWnTJnA

    And of course there's nothing to stop you from doing a bit here and there while you're traing.....seems a lot like taxi driving to me...


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    #67
    jack90210
    Closed Accounts Posts: 214 ✭✭jack90210


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Realy.....


    http://www.plastering-courses.info/?gclid=CKGK_bzFjJkCFQ0zQgodWnTJnA


    Site doesnt work for me. But maybe your right I'm not sure what wages plasters earn but I do know electricians take 4 years to qualify and therefore my point holds for them.


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    #68
    acontadino
    Closed Accounts Posts: 335 ✭✭acontadino


    my dad himself a taxi driver, says that many taxi drivers really hold a deep seated hatred against mainly (non-white) taxi drivers. i'd say many of the original 2,000 are very bitter.


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    #69
    Taxipete29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Taxipete29


    jack90210 wrote: »
    A taxi driver could be on the road in a matter of weeks. A plaster has to go through years of training absorbing the opportunity cost of engaging in better paid work such as taxidriving but ultimately unskilled and therefore in the long run they deserve to make better wages. So why again should we limit entrants to an unskilled, easy to do industry? This 6500 thing is rubbish as I have just pointed out you are not considering opportunity cost when comparing your industry to others.

    For starters it takes alot longer than a few weeks to become a taxi driver, its probably closer to 6 months from the time you first submit your application. Its not unskilled, you must have a full drivng licence and a knowledge of the city or area you are working in. Are these not skills???

    There are limitations in all industries just not always regulatory ones. Trades people serve apprenticeships, if there is not a high demand for that skill you wont get one. I doubt there are very many apprenticeships on offer at the moment, infact I know alot of guys who cant even finish theirs as there companies have laid them off. Thats the industry putting there own cap on numbers.

    While I understand the idea of oppurtunity cost, I just dont see how it applies in this case. Most apprenticeships begin between 18 and 21. I only know of and have only seen a few guys of this age in our industry. Alot of drivers are actually ex- trades men in various fields who got into the taxi game before the building boom or left as they were getting too old to work on sites. Point being, nobody leaves school and goes straight into taxi driving, they usually have worked in other fields for several years before entering. This negates your argument about oppurtunity cost


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    #70
    jack90210
    Closed Accounts Posts: 214 ✭✭jack90210


    Taxipete29 wrote: »
    For starters it takes alot longer than a few weeks to become a taxi driver, its probably closer to 6 months from the time you first submit your application. Its not unskilled, you must have a full drivng licence and a knowledge of the city or area you are working in. Are these not skills???

    Yes they are skills. Skills that many people have and are easy to attain. I have those skills and I'm not a taximan. The 6 month thing is just pure paperwork rubbish its not a time where you are doing anything.
    There are limitations in all industries just not always regulatory ones. Trades people serve apprenticeships, if there is not a high demand for that skill you wont get one. I doubt there are very many apprenticeships on offer at the moment, infact I know alot of guys who cant even finish theirs as there companies have laid them off. Thats the industry putting there own cap on numbers.

    No that would be the free market putting a cap on numbers. Just as what will occur in taxis.
    While I understand the idea of oppurtunity cost, I just dont see how it applies in this case. Most apprenticeships begin between 18 and 21. I only know of and have only seen a few guys of this age in our industry. Alot of drivers are actually ex- trades men in various fields who got into the taxi game before the building boom or left as they were getting too old to work on sites. Point being, nobody leaves school and goes straight into taxi driving, they usually have worked in other fields for several years before entering. This negates your argument about oppurtunity cost
    [/quote]

    Who said the 18-21 year old had to be driving a taxi, they could work in a call centre, do donkey office work, work in a retail store. They'll be making more then in their apprenticeship but they are losing money now (op cost) to make money in the future. So no it doesn't negate my argument, far from it.


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    #71
    lostexpectation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,082 ✭✭✭lostexpectation


    Disruption due to today's protest was kept to a minimum with gardai and drivers working together to coordinate the event.

    so how much chaos was there?


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    #72
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    None whatsoever, in fact traffic was better than normal, way better. Got from Merrion Square, down Pearse St, Quays and into the Phoenix Park in 15 minutes!


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    #73
    Taxipete29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Taxipete29


    jack90210 wrote: »
    Yes they are skills. Skills that many people have and are easy to attain. I have those skills and I'm not a taximan. The 6 month thing is just pure paperwork rubbish its not a time where you are doing anything.

    Any skill is easy to attain if you have the apptitude, its just a matter of how long it takes.

    No that would be the free market putting a cap on numbers. Just as what will occur in taxis.
    This is where your argument falls apart as the Taxi Industry is not a free market as its regulated by the Government.


    Who said the 18-21 year old had to be driving a taxi, they could work in a call centre, do donkey office work, work in a retail store. They'll be making more then in their apprenticeship but they are losing money now (op cost) to make money in the future. So no it doesn't negate my argument, far from it.[/QUOTE]
    Well we are talking about the taxi industry not any other job. I agree when it comes to other jobs you mentioned but the taxi industry is what we are talking about and I pointed out thats its not like that.


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    #74
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    jack90210 wrote: »
    Site doesnt work for me. But maybe your right I'm not sure what wages plasters earn but I do know electricians take 4 years to qualify and therefore my point holds for them.


    Actualy you don't need to be a member of RECI to work in electrics in Ireland ( though it may well be desirable ) and as RECI would be the people looking for a time served aprenticeship your argument is again sunk......In other words I could ( if I so desired ) advertise my services as an electrician, even if I were color blind and didn't know my AC from my elbow :cool:


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    #75
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,204 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    Taxipete29 wrote: »
    Do you pay the Government €6500 to become a plasterer?? No you dont, its not the same, its totally different.

    Read back over the mountains of taxi threads there have been,and this question has been asked in everyone and answered the same in everyone.

    I've paid over €10k to become an engineer. I'm not asking them to cap anythng. Its the same thing


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    #76
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,204 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    Spook_ie wrote: »


    In other words I could ( if I so desired ) advertise my services as an electrician, even if I were color blind and didn't know my AC from my elbow :cool:

    You wouldnt be an electrican. You'd be a chancer sorry I mean handy man


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    #77
    Taxipete29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Taxipete29


    kearnsr wrote: »
    I've paid over €10k to become an egineer. I'm not asking them to cap anythng. Its the same thing

    Maybe you should of paid a little more and learned how to spell it.


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    #78
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,204 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    Taxipete29 wrote: »
    Maybe you should of paid a little more and learned how to spell it.

    It wasnt an english class


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    #79
    Taxipete29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Taxipete29


    kearnsr wrote: »
    It wasnt an english class

    Obviously


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    #80
    Jumpy
    Registered Users Posts: 7,606 ✭✭✭Jumpy


    Taxipete29 wrote: »
    Maybe you should of paid a little more and learned how to spell it.

    Should of? Should have perhaps?


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    #81
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,204 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    Taxipete29 wrote: »
    Obviously

    and yet I still managed to get my 2 degrees. Suppose I'd take that over working 12 hours a day for €50 because I've no other qualifications. Or do you? What qualifies you to drive a taxi?

    I like the www.taxitaxi.ie blurb

    * Earn €1000 gross cash with as little required as a €16 taxi licence - you just need to put in the hours - say 50 hours a week.

    All you need is a PSV licence

    This must be why you think we owe you.


    Man I've wasted 6 years in college


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    #82
    Taxipete29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Taxipete29


    Jumpy wrote: »
    Should of? Should have perhaps?

    Grammer Nazi :D


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    #83
    Taxipete29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Taxipete29


    kearnsr wrote: »
    and yet I still managed to get my 2 degrees. Suppose I'd take that over working 12 hours a day for €50 because I've no other qualifications. Or do you? What qualifies you to drive a taxi?

    I like the www.taxitaxi.ie blurb

    * Earn €1000 gross cash with as little required as a €16 taxi licence - you just need to put in the hours - say 50 hours a week.

    All you need is a PSV licence

    This must be why you think we owe you.


    Man I've wasted 6 years in college

    I have little time for people who rave on about how many degrees they have and what they are qualified for, when all their doing is trying to measure the size of their *****.

    I have got formal education qualifactions, but I dont feel the need to go shouting about them on an internet forum.

    I dont think im owed anything and its quite ironic you quote a site which sells and rents out taxis, they are hardly going to paint a true picture of the industry as it currently stands now are they.


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    #84
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,204 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    Taxipete29 wrote: »

    I dont think im owed anything and its quite ironic you quote a site which sells and rents out taxis, they are hardly going to paint a true picture of the industry as it currently stands now are they.

    So is that why I should believe what the taxi industry says there being too many taxis?


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    #85
    Taxipete29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Taxipete29


    kearnsr wrote: »
    So is that why I should believe what the taxi industry says there being too many taxis?

    To be fair I doubt anyone is disputing that there is too many taxis. The question is do you believe there should be a cap placed on licences or just let market forces sort it out. I know you believe the latter, but surely you recognise there are too many taxis???


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    #86
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,204 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    Taxipete29 wrote: »
    To be fair I doubt anyone is disputing that there is too many taxis. The question is do you believe there should be a cap placed on licences or just let market forces sort it out. I know you believe the latter, but surely you recognise there are too many taxis???

    Its an open market. There cant be to many taxis.


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    #87
    jack90210
    Closed Accounts Posts: 214 ✭✭jack90210


    kearnsr wrote: »
    Its an open market. There cant be to many taxis.

    +1

    Taxi drivers need to study economics.


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    #88
    Taxipete29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Taxipete29


    kearnsr wrote: »
    Its an open market. There cant be to many taxis.

    Thats a ridiculous statement. It makes no sense at all. I assume one of your degrees is not in Economics


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    #89
    Taxipete29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Taxipete29


    jack90210 wrote: »
    +1

    Taxi drivers need to study economics.

    Of course there can be too many entrants into any market and under normal market conditions the surplus will leave based on supply and demand, but this has not happened in the taxi industry as it has few barriers to entry but huge barriers to exiting.


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    #90
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,204 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    Taxipete29 wrote: »
    Thats a ridiculous statement. It makes no sense at all. I assume one of your degrees is not in Economics

    Your formal education qualifications clearly aren’t related to rocket science.

    Taxis don’t have the right to cap numbers because they believe there are to many drivers. A free market (or so I believe) is that any one can join it and make a go of it. Its their risk. If risk pays off fair enough. If they are back protesting 6 months later because the promised €1000 a week didn’t materialise then tuff titties


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    #91
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,204 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    Taxipete29 wrote: »
    Of course there can be too many entrants into any market and under normal market conditions the surplus will leave based on supply and demand, but this has not happened in the taxi industry as it has few barriers to entry but huge barriers to exiting.

    Cry me a river. You didnt walk into the industry blind. If you did then thats your fault.

    Supply and demand balance its self out naturally butthe way you are proposing is just looking after yourself and doesnt help any one who may come along who can make a living based on current conditons.

    What happens if things pick up and there is a massive demand for taxis? Would you lift the cap? Not with a few more protests I'd say


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