Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

~Rebel~ · 24-02-2009 01:21PM

eagle eye wrote: »

Its clear to me that at the present time there are issues that have to be worked out, and Benitez' lack of ability to bring in successful forwards with the exception of Torres is something that should concern Liverpool fans.

Its a bit unfair to say thats a purely Rafa problem, when its clearly a club problem. Time and time again he moves for quality attacking players before they become household names, but cant get them, and is forced to get cheap knockoffs.

A lot of attacking buys have been poor, correct, but the vast majority of them were speculative at best from the outset.

From an onfield perspective, liverpools main problem is that, when anything bar the first 11 is out, we lack the ability to consistently open up defensive teams. More cutting edge in the squad and pool should be very formidable

raven136 · 24-02-2009 03:22PM

Rafa does seem to have a failing when it comes to forwards but there is another side.Torres and Keane were 20 mill players and thats the type of money that buys you week in week out quality in most cases.

I accept there are exceptions but it has to be factored in that Liverpool were so ****e when he took over that players had to be bought for 7 -9m.So instead of say Aguero for 25m and that being it,Rafa had to sign an Agger for 7,a benayoun for 5 and a bellamy for 6 and a garcia for 6.It meant cover for a squad that wasnt good enough but sacrificed the quality needed to win the league.

Its unfair to compare that to United,who already had a quality team and supplement that most seasons with a Berbatov or a Tevez.

Now Liverpool can afford to do that from next season on and priority should be given to forward players.
Also Rafa cant be blamed for the fact that player we all had high hopes for in Babel is very lazy and seems to have the wrong attitude.

Rafa has made some poor signings like most managers but some excellent ones also.Agger,skrtl,reina,arbeloa,masch,xabi,torres.It baffles me at times that when people question his signings they say only Torres was any use.

~Rebel~ · 24-02-2009 03:31PM

raven136 wrote: »

Now Liverpool can afford to do that from next season on and priority should be given to forward players.

Except pool have no money...

Iang87 · 24-02-2009 03:34PM

raven136 wrote: »

Rafa has made some poor signings like most managers but some excellent ones also.Agger,skrtl,reina,arbeloa,masch,xabi,torres.It baffles me at times that when people question his signings they say only Torres was any use.

Fair enough point but be very careful when putting arbeloa amongst those layers. You see you've listed off competent players not incompetent

~Rebel~ · 24-02-2009 03:38PM

Iang87 wrote: »

Fair enough point but be very careful when putting arbeloa amongst those layers. You see you've listed off competent players not incompetent

? Arbeloa is far from being pool's weak link. He's a bit one dimensional compared to the best RB's in the league, but certainly not a bad or 'incompetant' player...

Iang87 · 24-02-2009 03:42PM

what could be my problem with arbeloa is that he isn't steve finnan who was one of the best in the league and i still havent gotten any justification watchin arbeloa as to why anyone would think he is capable of replacing him

i also wouldn't say he's far from the weak link. he's on that right hand side which is an area of some problem

raven136 · 24-02-2009 03:44PM

Iang87 wrote: »

what could be my problem with arbeloa is that he isn't steve finnan who was one of the best in the league and i still havent gotten any justification watchin arbeloa as to why anyone would think he is capable of replacing him

i also wouldn't say he's far from the weak link. he's on that right hand side which is an area of some problem

i do.Finnan was injured and getting older.Arbeloa is younger and a decent right back.Outside the top 5 i dont know many better in the league.

whatawaster · 24-02-2009 03:44PM

Iang87 wrote: »

Fair enough point but be very careful when putting arbeloa amongst those layers. You see you've listed off competent players not incompetent

Arbeloa is far from incompetent. Not in the class of Skrtel or Carragher, but a very competent defender and does a decent job going forward.

Iang87 · 24-02-2009 03:49PM

whatawaster wrote: »

Arbeloa is far from incompetent. Not in the class of Skrtel or Carragher, but a very competent defender and does a decent job going forward.

Maybe you're right that he does a decent job going forward however there is that constant nagging fact that he really struggles to defend and loses his man a lot which in turn costs goals.
e.g. Gosling in the cup

whatawaster · 24-02-2009 03:51PM

Iang87 wrote: »

what could be my problem with arbeloa is that he isn't steve finnan who was one of the best in the league and i still havent gotten any justification watchin arbeloa as to why anyone would think he is capable of replacing him

i also wouldn't say he's far from the weak link. he's on that right hand side which is an area of some problem

he may be slightly short of Finnan's quality when Finnan was in his prime, but he's a very similar player. Finnan is finished though and was absolute p*ss in his last year and a half for us.

Even Finnan in his prime wasn't the kind of right back people want us to have. He was solid, dependable. Arbeloa is solid, dependable and way younger. Also only cost 2 million. Great bit of business.

Iang87 · 24-02-2009 03:53PM

got a long way to go for me before i'll call him dependable

PiE · 24-02-2009 04:41PM

What player would you buy for two million pounds that would be more dependable?

"Shoulda kept Finnan" isn't an option - he's a crock now and Rafa did great business in getting any money for him.

Iang87 · 24-02-2009 04:47PM

i'm sure we could have got glen johnson for not much more than that and added finnan to the deal back then

mayordenis · 24-02-2009 05:02PM

Iang87 wrote: »

i'm sure we could have got glen johnson for not much more than that and added finnan to the deal back then

back when he was at chelsea? they wouldn't of sold him to us. And since we were interested pompey wanted around 9mil. so not really the same category of price.
Arbeloa was a fantastic piece of business.

Iang87 · 24-02-2009 05:07PM

ok it can be argued that it was a great piece of business but not necessarily a great signing. In my opinion we paid 2 million and got a full back worth 2 million

Melion · 24-02-2009 05:15PM

Who would you have rather signed for £2m?

The only 2 right backs currently playing in the premiership i would rather have are Sagna and Rafael. Yes, shock horror, im saying Arbeloa is one of the best right backs in the league.

whatawaster · 24-02-2009 05:17PM

Iang87 wrote: »

In my opinion we paid 2 million and got a full back worth 2 million

who has a European Championships medal.

whatawaster · 24-02-2009 05:23PM

Melion wrote: »

Who would you have rather signed for £2m?

The only 2 right backs currently playing in the premiership i would rather have are Sagna and Rafael. Yes, shock horror, im saying Arbeloa is one of the best right backs in the league.

I would have have Sagna and Johnson. I'd have Rafael in a couple of years, definitely.
I know for sure i'd rather have Arbeloa for 2 million than Bosingwa for 16, or even 8 for that matter.

Iang87 · 24-02-2009 05:27PM

whatawaster wrote: »

who has a European Championships medal.

he sure did. did he play in the european championship or was it a default medal. If you think he's in the top 3 right backs in the league then wow just wow

Also Djimi Traore has a champs league medal, basing it on your theory he must be in the top 3 left backs too

Melion · 24-02-2009 05:29PM

Iang87 wrote: »

he sure did. did he play in the european championship or was it a default medal. If you think he's in the top 3 right backs in the league then wow just wow

Who's better?
Don't say Bosingwa, Don't say Neville, Don't say Richards because clearly none of them are. Sagna is better, Johnson is on about the same level, Rafael IMO will rival Cafu and Thuram in a few years(The 2 best ive ever seen).

mayordenis · 24-02-2009 05:31PM

Iang87 wrote: »

he sure did. did he play in the european championship or was it a default medal. If you think he's in the top 3 right backs in the league then wow just wow

Sagna - Johnson - Rafa(in time) - Luke Young maybe? there's nobody else better than him

Iang87 wrote: »

Also Djimi Traore has a champs league medal, basing it on your theory he must be in the top 3 left backs too

That's completely not fair, that logic was never used, but to say he's only worth 2million is wrong as other teams are offering upwards of 5 million for him, so that's his worth.
And that's his worth to clubs and managers who in fairness know what they're talking about.
the only real downside is pace, and he's no exceptionally slow by anymeans just no Alves, which is who would be playing there if a few people had of let Rafa make the call.

Iang87 · 24-02-2009 05:37PM

whats this who's better who's better, you sound like a child with teary eyes trying to get a point across.

We are believe it or not going to have to agree to disagree. i personally think he's not good at all, not for the premiership anyway. I'd rather have:
Sagna
Johnson
Luke Young
Rafael
Paulo Ferreira
Beye
Hibbert
Lucas Neill
Onouha

At left back i'd love steven warnock to still be there

astrofool · 24-02-2009 05:38PM

Glen Johnson cost Chelsea £6m initially. I don't understand people thinking a top 4 club will sell to another top 4 club, unless it is very mutually beneficial for both clubs (e.g. Veron->Chelsea, Cole/Gallas swap).

daithijjj · 24-02-2009 05:41PM

I dont think rafas problem is his defensive signings. He has made some good signings there, agger, skyrtel and insua are all excellent purchases imo. However, i think some fans opinions are clouded by our good defensive unit in the fact that rafa plays 2 def mids in front of them in the majority of games..........playing with 7 men behind the ball and 1 striker should get you a solid defensive structure.

Rafas problems exist in creativity in midfield and the final third. Lucas and masch are not creative, lucas is filling a gap and masch should not be needed so much at home. Xabi is great on the ball but is not dynamic enough by charging into the box unannounced, thats not a criticism, its merely an observation. Stevie is our only midfielder who gets in the box.

Garreth barry is not the answer to creativity should he be signed later on imo. We need to go for the jugular more at home by dropping a def mid and adding a quality player in the deco/xavi/iniesta mould to the starting line up. Its just my opinion that this could benefit stevie as much as anyone else giving the opposition something else to think about rather than setting up to nullify him and him alone. "Fortune favours the brave" is not a proverb for no reason. Rafa is a bit to negative for me in his starting line ups at home and the proof is in his results here. A man of rafas obvious inteligence should see this at this stage and maybe after the summer (contract signed) he may just 'release the hounds' more at home.

Taking a leap/risk at home in one game for the 3 points before half time is the same as squeezing 3 draws. For a team like us to be so high up the league and have such a low count of 2 goal winning margins at home should be testament enough to where our issues lie.

PiE · 24-02-2009 05:43PM

Iang87 wrote: »

I'd rather have:
Sagna
Johnson
Luke Young
Rafael
Paulo Ferreira
Beye
Hibbert
Lucas Neill
Onouha
At left back i'd love steven warnock to still be there

If you ever wonder why people ignore/disregard your opinions; just re-read that gem because it's a fantastic specimen of awfulness.

Paul Tergat · 24-02-2009 05:45PM

Iang87 wrote: »

whats this who's better who's better, you sound like a child with teary eyes trying to get a point across.

We are believe it or not going to have to agree to disagree. i personally think he's not good at all, not for the premiership anyway. I'd rather have:
Sagna
Johnson
Luke Young
Rafael
Paulo Ferreira
Beye
Hibbert
Lucas Neill
Onouha

At left back i'd love steven warnock to still be there

you may struggle to agree with anyone with some of those suggestions

For the price paid and what was available he's a decent buy. No more, no less imo

Iang87 · 24-02-2009 05:46PM

ok watch arbeloa tomorrow night just watch him he'll be skinnned plenty and will lose his man. If thats a full back you think is good by all means believe so but i dont think he is in the slightest bit good. I didnt last season i wont next season and he'll eventually just stop playin and go away.

Eagle eye had a post today about how you're not allowed an opinion in here. go check it out cos its very very true an quite related to this.

Ok for 2 million yes he's a decent buy but that doesn't make him good. Thats my point

Melion · 24-02-2009 05:48PM

Iang87 wrote: »

We are believe it or not going to have to agree to disagree. i personally think he's not good at all, not for the premiership anyway. I'd rather have:
Sagna
Johnson
Luke Young
Rafael
Paulo Ferreira
Beye
Hibbert
Lucas Neill
Onouha

At left back i'd love steven warnock to still be there

Laugh or cry, i just cant decide.

Iang87 · 24-02-2009 05:49PM

PiE wrote: »

If you ever wonder why people ignore/disregard your opinions; just re-read that gem because it's a fantastic specimen of awfulness.

ok who would you rather have or are you of the believe he's one of the best in the league. Read the question i was asked by the way before commenting on a post, i was asked my opinion on who i'd rather have. That is an opinion it cant be right or wrong just so you know

Paul Tergat · 24-02-2009 05:51PM

Iang87 wrote: »

Eagle eye had a post today about how you're not allowed an opinion in here. go check it out cos its very very true an quite related to this.

maybe, just maybe, the majority who then jump all over the things that people are saying are right. Maybe the points that they are making are backed up with good solid reasoning and none of this well 'we're Pool we should be winning the league' etc etc etc

Iang87 wrote: »

Ok for 2 million yes he's a decent buy but that doesn't make him good. Thats my point

But can you not understand the circumstances? There are limited funds are there not? Im sure Rafa would love to pay bucketloads for Dani Alves or another good RB (ive read a few times on here he wanted him but money wasnt there - is that Rafa's fault??).

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