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Former chief of M15 accuses Labour of creating a Police State.

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Comments

  • #32
    youcrazyjesus!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,146 ✭✭✭youcrazyjesus!


    Sorry I was talking about Metman and Eru, not yourself.


  • #33
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,263 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    youcrazyjesus! wrote: »
    I'll give you one more example of this type of nonsense which seems to becoming more and more prevalent:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1107342/MP-stopped-police-suspicion-terrorist--taking-photos-cycle-path.html?ITO=1490

    Great, so anybody taking a photo within shouting distance of a train, bus or taxi rank can be arrested for terrorism. Another Tory MP put out of business by the thin blue line. I guess 99.99% of tourists are now terrorist suspects too. It's crazy in this day and age where there are more cameras out there than people.


    That was actually a good story to highlight as the MP who was stopped was happy to see the police using the stop and search powers.
    Mr Pelling has, however, taken a positive approach to the police's decision to search him over the cycle path pictures.

    He told the Croydon Guardian last night: 'It is pleasing to see just how vigilant our police are at these times of heightened international political tension and the risk of terrorism here at home.

    'I am glad my stop-and-search account as a white, middle-aged male shows that anyone can be suspected of, and questioned about, terrorism, regardless of race, creed or colour.'

    A police source said: 'An MP is still a member of the public and if we feel someone is acting suspiciously then we will stop and search them. Nobody is immune, whether they show a pass to the House of Commons or not.'


    What I think ERU and Metman are trying to say, Lads correct me if i'm wrong here, is that the law is there to be used if needs be, there are certain offences which fall under the category of terrorist offences like here you will be arrested under the Offences against the State Act for being in possession of a handgun. This is the same Act which deals with terrorist offences.

    And if you feel that you were hard done by then complain. Thats why the ombudsman is there.

    youcrazyjesus!, you mentioned earlier on about the Anti-Terror laws being used to prevent peaceful protests. I assume you mean in London outside Downing Street and Parliment Square? If so, then unless things have changed you just need to book your protest in these areas. All other areas are fine to protest. Maybe Metman can confirm if this is still the case.


  • #34
    parsi
    Site Banned Posts: 5,904 ✭✭✭parsi


    foreign wrote: »
    youcrazyjesus!, you mentioned earlier on about the Anti-Terror laws being used to prevent peaceful protests. I assume you mean in London outside Downing Street and Parliment Square? If so, then unless things have changed you just need to book your protest in these areas. All other areas are fine to protest. Maybe Metman can confirm if this is still the case.

    Does (did) the GRA & AGSI have to book tomorrow's demo in Dublin ?


  • #35
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,263 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    parsi wrote: »
    Does (did) the GRA & AGSI have to book tomorrow's demo in Dublin ?

    Todays demo was actually organised by The Congress of Trade Unions not the Garda Representative Bodies.
    However, anybody can protest against whatever they want here, just look at the Love Ulster rally.

    I personally think that you should be able to protest when and where you want too but I think the problem with the areas of London that I mentioned was that you could go down there on any given day and there may be multiple protests taking place, so maybe this was a way for the Met to have a bit of order to the protests. Again, I may be wrong on this because it was a few years since it was introduced.


  • #36
    Eru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,357 ✭✭✭Eru


    parsi wrote: »
    Does (did) the GRA & AGSI have to book tomorrow's demo in Dublin ?

    Ireland is not within the UK, you are aware of this arent you? And yes, the marches were discussed as it allows for the protest to go on without induly interfering with passersby and people that are using their right to free movement. Gardai policing a protest isnt about watching 'them' and waiting for a chance to stop the protest, far from it in fact. We are there to help it run smoothly and without any problems / confrontations between protestors and second parties.
    foreign wrote: »
    What I think ERU and Metman are trying to say, Lads correct me if i'm wrong here, is that the law is there to be used if needs be, there are certain offences which fall under the category of terrorist offences like here you will be arrested under the Offences against the State Act for being in possession of a handgun. This is the same Act which deals with terrorist offences.

    Yes and no. Im also trying to point out that everyone thats arrested is innocent until they are found guilty by a Judge and Jury not by the police. There is no way that the police can arrest only 'guilty' people as the police perform their tasks prior to this function.
    youcrazyjesus! wrote: »
    To the above 2, I'm surprised at how myopic and partisan you are. For the record we are talking about politicians and legislation and is being created from it, not your jobs. You two are taking it personally, which is stupid, and seem like 2 people who would be quite unreasonable and unpleasant to deal with.

    Actually thats quite offensive personally and professionaly. For the record, your the one seperating 'citizens' from 'police officers' not us. Were applying the same rules to all.
    youcrazyjesus! wrote: »
    You both ignore the point about so called anti-terror legislation being used to harrass and arrest elderly trainspotting photographers, peaceful protestors, take over foreign banks, Tory MPs. When it's pointed out to you you both come out with the "it's a croime, taff lack son innit" nonsense. It actually proves the point of what concerned citizens are saying about new laws and civil liberties, which is not as you bizarrely seem to be insisting "don't investigate and stop crime", "there is no such thing as crime", "laws shouldn't exist", "the police who investigate Al Qaeda are sinister". I don't even know where to begin deconstructing such confused paranoia. But I'd strongly advise a long holiday or a even a long walk at the weekends with the dogs, seriously. Tinfoil hat paranoia.

    Its A or B, investigating suspicious behaviour does not mean said person acting in that way is a criminal just as not everyone thats arrested is a criminal or guilty. Its A or B. You have a simplistic view of how the world works.
    youcrazyjesus! wrote: »
    Back to the point, there is a culture of authoritarianism being built up bit by bit by New Labour (it has changed a little bit now that Blair has finally left the stage to be fair), using overreaching laws that give the police and Government the right to trample over any citizen as they see fit.
    Well you know how to use your rights as a voter then dont you? Just as every other adult does.
    youcrazyjesus! wrote: »
    Great, so anybody taking a photo within shouting distance of a train, bus or taxi rank can be arrested for terrorism. Another Tory MP put out of business by the thin blue line. I guess 99.99% of tourists are now terrorist suspects too. It's crazy in this day and age where there are more cameras out there than people.

    Actually the Mp praised the actions because he understands how the world really works and yes, anybody taking photos of sensitive areas can be arrested under terrorism laws. The alternative is to abolish the law therefore meaning that actual terrorists can work away scot free.
    youcrazyjesus! wrote: »
    It's almost impossible as a policeman to understand the nature of the police state. You're there to enforce the law, whatever that law says. Ironically it puts you in a position where you can't see the forest for the trees. The utter nonsense being posted here is proof of that.

    Yeah yeah yeah, yawn.


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  • #37
    Ruen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 363 ✭✭Ruen


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by youcrazyjesus!
    It's almost impossible as a policeman to understand the nature of the police state. You're there to enforce the law, whatever that law says. Ironically it puts you in a position where you can't see the forest for the trees. The utter nonsense being posted here is proof of that.
    Eru wrote: »
    Yeah yeah yeah, yawn.
    That is a very juvenile response to a reasonable post.

    It is true that if a law is passed as a Police Officer or Guard you have to enforce it regardless of your personal opinion on the rights or wrongs of that law.
    I find the comments of serving Police on here bizarre in that they're taking some sort of personal offense:confused: from the fact that some people, disagree with Government creating a police state or even believe it's happening.
    It's nothing against you, it's the Government and legislators that people are unhappy with here, as was said already you have no choice in the matter and have to enforce the law as it's written so get off your high horses and take a chill pill.


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