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Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,968 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    So we won at the death, great.

    We are one significant injury away from disaster.

    Thank fook Chelsea are imploding and Arsenal gutless. Villas UEFA Cup run should stretch thier resources, so that leaves us and who know who. I know who I fancy to win the title from here, all those idiotic draws are going to be the teams epitaph for this season.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 9,769 Mod ✭✭✭✭mayordenis


    mike65 wrote: »
    So we won at the death, great.

    We are one significant injury away from disaster.

    Thank fook Chelsea are imploding and Arsenal gutless. Villas UEFA Cup run should stretch thier resources, so that leaves us and who know who. I know who I fancy to win the title from here, all those idiotic draws are going to be the teams epitaph for this season.

    I don't know when you became so negative man,
    you used to be a shining light of level headed Liverpool fans, maybe still are.
    I'll admit I'm slightly blinkered but no more than that - I always ensuate the positives but like whats going on here is a sham?
    Torres was clearly destroyed knackered
    Xabi also couldn't run at the end of the game
    Kuyt (who many people always want dropped but are now using him not playing as a stick to beat benitez with) has played 90 minutes in very game and 120 during the week.
    Gerrard was injured.
    Lucas was suspended.

    He did the wisest thing which was taking all the into account he looked out were we have the most depth of quality Carra, Agger and Skrtel are all top class so he played those 3 - I'd be happy to see them played like that more often even though we conceded 2 today those 3 would gel with a little time (and before some says we don't have time to be trying new things, we don't have the players to do old things).
    I'm so happy with Aurelio right now alot of people give him grief (never fit, not that good yada yada) He didn't play a stray ball today, pretty much all class and the goal to boot.
    Dossena had a very good game, didn't put a foot wrong. He was so clearly unfit for the first have the season anyone who even debates that would be a complete moron.
    Masch got to show that he's not just a workhorse(although he is the best workhorse around) he played some great football today and for me his name on a team sheet is the most confidence giving pen to paper possible.
    Reina kinda gave them a goal, but the man was plain unlucky and on another day maybe where he had already been tested a couple of times might have saved the header, if not both of there goals.
    N'gog was more or less the only option and he didn't really do much wrong in fact his touch today look very assured and he was quite unlucky to lose his footing as he made a nice turn and prepared a shot on his stronger left foot.

    anyway far from perfect I'll say but (this point will be raged at by most) can you imagine being a united player watching that game - it would **** with your head :P

    a masterstroke :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,411 ✭✭✭HashSlinging


    When the game ended, I thought it was one of our best performances so far this season, (and without Gerrard).. I am a massive fan of the last min winners, but its nerve wreaking at the same time..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,968 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    mayordenis wrote: »
    I don't know when you became so negative man,
    you used to be a shining light of level headed Liverpool fans, maybe still are.

    /anyway far from perfect I'll say but (this point will be raged at by most) can you imagine being a united player watching that game - it would **** with your head :P

    a masterstroke :pac:

    I like to think that win, loose or draw I can see the big picture, you have to agree that if we lost one of Alonso/Gerrard/Torres for a significant period we'd be stuffed. I really can't figure how Rafa sold a player (who he knew wasn't working out) and didn't have a replacement ready - be it a loaner or a cheap 'option' like Heskey. I trust he didn't wake up on Feb 1st and say "we'll sell Robbie and chance our arm".

    The best thing about today apart from 3 points was that the side that started actualy looked hungrey, they bustled about the place and wanted to win the ball. Hopefully that'll boost a few confidences, Aurelio and Skrtle did particuarly well. The latter is much more a right sided player than Carra thats for sure.

    As for Utd fans, yep they'll have hated that almost as much as the Pompey faithfull. :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,372 ✭✭✭✭Mr Alan


    personally i thought today that Ngog showed he offered more as a replacement for Torres than Keane did in his time at Liverpool & it was the lads first PL start.

    very happy with what i saw......and the hunger you refer to was quite obviously because Rafa has shown a faith in Ngog & Babel playing through the middle.

    Thought Aurelio & Dossena were excellent too


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    The biggest gripe I have with Rafa is that he makes to many decisions that have me scratching my head thinking "wtf?". I doubt any United fan has the same with Fergie or any chelsea fan did with Jose or even Avram. Scolari is in his first season and we are very lucky of that. If Arsenal/Wenger spend the kind of money rafa has it would be scary to think how good they are.

    I honestly dont see how aany Liverpool fan can seriously defend rafa for selling Keane. Sure people are using the excuse that the players are knackered and need to be rested so how can rafa think it's a good idea to sell one of his better players without a replacement? It's not like the players will get fitter as the season goes on, it's the opposite so the injuries will probaly just get worse and players will need to be rested for often.

    I'll easily admit that keane has been a big disappoint since his signing but If I had to pcik one player of Keane, Ngog and Babel to finish off a 1-on-1 with a keeper it would be Keane 100% of the time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,372 ✭✭✭✭Mr Alan


    how can rafa think it's a good idea to sell one of his better players without a replacement?

    Keane was never one of our better players. Only by reputation, which matter not a ounce.


  • Subscribers Posts: 16,948 ✭✭✭✭copacetic


    Mr Alan wrote: »
    Keane was never one of our better players. Only by reputation, which matter not a ounce.

    and by goals scored and goals per game this season (3rd in both), in spite of a poor mins/game ratio.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,372 ✭✭✭✭Mr Alan


    copacetic wrote: »
    and by goals scored and goals per game this season (3rd in both), in spite of a poor mins/game ratio.

    Voronins stats last year were very impressive too.

    Fortunately our manager judges players on over-all performance.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,034 ✭✭✭deadhead13


    Mr Alan wrote: »
    personally i thought today that Ngog showed he offered more as a replacement for Torres than Keane did in his time at Liverpool & it was the lads first PL start.

    Thought he look a bit lightweight myself. 4 goals so far in his professional career? Hopefully we wont be depending on him.


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  • Subscribers Posts: 16,948 ✭✭✭✭copacetic


    Mr Alan wrote: »
    Voronins stats last year were very impressive too.

    Fortunately our manager judges players on over-all performance.


    no they weren't. 7th in goals scored, not even in top 5 in goals per games.

    Fool yourself if you want, but don't try to make up 'facts' to back up your case.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,372 ✭✭✭✭Mr Alan


    i apologise, when i read your post, i thought you said his goals per minute ratio was excellent...i was just pointing out that could be very deceiving as it was with Voronin.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,588 ✭✭✭daithijjj


    More of us should be paying a glowing tribute to a player who took a pay cut to join us. He has been excellent over the few games from xmas onwards. Many of you like to snipe back at criticisms of dirk with 'he changed the game' comments and today i would have to partially agree.

    But today, AGAIN, bennyoun was our best player imo...........fantastic work previous to babels miss and brilliant work in creating the winner for torres.

    You know you have a real man in the squad when he takes a pay cut to join you.......it takes 'cojones', great loyalty to a personal cause, a good pro.........delighted for that lad that hes finally getting a solid run of games and was worth his weight in gold today..........bennyoun, not kuyt, won that game for us today.


  • Subscribers Posts: 16,948 ✭✭✭✭copacetic


    Mr Alan wrote: »
    i apologise, when i read your post, i thought you said his goals per minute ratio was excellent...i was just pointing out that could be very deceiving as it was with Voronin.

    I actually don't know Keanes, but I'll bet its high too. Should probably drop it but I think there are plenty of died in the wool reds who are really scratching there heads the last couple of weeks and it has nothing to do with calling for the managers head or anything like that. When the whole of football (inlcuding pretty much all the respected ex liverpool players) can't understand what we are doing then imo you know we are going in the wrong direction.

    Trying to write it off as not being proper fans etc simply isn't true.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,372 ✭✭✭✭Mr Alan


    i'm not doing that though.

    i've said numerous times that i wouldnt have sold Keane if i was Rafa, but people trying to make out that Keane was excellent for us, or even very good, are just wrong.

    He proved at his time with us that he cannot play up top on his own. Babel (who has the potential to improve greatly) would do just as well up there as a back up for Torres-so i'm speculating that Rafa just decided that he'd cut his loses & recoup 16m as he already has a player who can be average up top in the event of Torres picking up an injury.

    Rafa has earned the right to do that imo & the ****e some fans are coming out with is just ridiculous imo.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    Mr Alan wrote: »
    Keane was never one of our better players. Only by reputation, which matter not a ounce.




    If Keane isnt one of our better players I seriously hope your not going to suggest Babel is.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    Mr Alan wrote: »
    Babel (who has the potential to improve greatly)




    Of course he has potential to improve greatly, thats because he's useless.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,372 ✭✭✭✭Mr Alan


    read my post before responding.

    i said both are equally average/not good enough on their todd up front on their own. WE had an opportunity to get shot of the older one & recoup 16m. Rafa took it.

    Here's an interesting article from TB

    (not links, just for you Mike ;))
    TONY BARRETT: Family at war - Liverpool FC deserves so much better

    WHEN Robbie Keane signed for Liverpool last summer one of the first things he told the ECHO was how delighted he was to be joining the club he supported as a boy.
    He couldn't have been any more wrong.
    The Liverpool Keane followed as a youngster growing up in Dublin was a club where unity was a watchword and where boardroom politics never had a negative effect on what was happening on the pitch.
    The Anfield Keane walked into last July was – and still is – a place torn apart by civil war and internal strife where only the bravest souls dare to tread.
    The Liverpool family has become so dysfunctional that it should be the adoption agency not the Premier League which rules on whether or not they can add to their number. But Keane was blissfully ignorant of such issues when he completed his "dream move".
    A brief conversation at the Malmaison Hotel which was his temporary home after moving north was the first indication the Irishman had that Liverpool FC was not what it once was.
    Advised by one associate not to get involved in the internecine politics which has plagued the club for far too long, Keane asked exactly what such comments meant.
    Another associate was less cryptic, telling him that Liverpool "is not one club, it is actually two or three in one".
    Keane soon came to know what that meant as he became an unwitting pawn in the ongoing power struggle between Rafa Benitez and Rick Parry.
    It has been inaccurately suggested in some places that the Liverpool manager never wanted Keane and that he was in fact signed by the club's chief executive.
    This is not the case as not only had Benitez confirmed his interest in Keane long before he actually signed, he had also consulted with several figures at Melwood about him.
    But – and this is a big but – by the time Keane came to sign on the dotted line to seal a four year contract at Anfield, the Reds boss had already tried unsuccessfully to halt the £20.3m deal.
    Gareth Barry was Benitez's number one target and it was the Englishman and not the Irishman whom he wanted capturing first.
    Benitez's fear was that if Keane signed before Barry it would diminish his chances of bringing in the Villa star.
    Parry's argument was that Villa were not budging on their prohibitive value of Barry and that the proposed Keane deal was so far down the road that there could be no turning back.

    To paraphrase a Benitez-ism from his Valencia days, he asked for a table and a lampshade but in that order. When the lampshade was unloaded at the Shankly gates with no sign of the table the Spaniard was far from impressed.
    Wholly innocently, Keane had become Benitez's lampshade and he had also unwittingly got himself caught in the crossfire between Anfield and Melwood.
    To this day, Benitez believes his chief executive worked harder to sign Keane than he did on the Barry deal in keeping with his own personal football judgement, an accusation Parry emphatically denies.
    Only those involved know the truth of the matter but what is not in any question is that the saga shows no-one involved in a favourable light.
    Keane may claim he was never given a fair crack of the whip but equally he never looked like setting the world alight during his short spell at Anfield.
    Statistics do not always give the complete picture where humans are involved but the fact that the partnership between Steven Gerrard and Fernando Torres produces a goal every 74 minutes - while with Torres and Keane it was every 245 minutes and Gerrard and Keane every 231 minutes- tells its own story.
    It is hard to recall a game where Keane did not look like a big fish in need of a much smaller pond, one which only the likes of Spurs can provide.
    Similarly, Benitez should not take any pride at identifying a target, failing to get anything like the best out of him and then returning him to whence he came without having a replacement lined up.
    Parry should also be asking himself whether he could have done more to deliver Benitez's transfer targets in the order he had requested them because in not doing so he helped create a situation which resulted in the manager demanding total control of the buying and selling of players because he feels he cannot trust his chief executive.
    And yet more accusing glances will be cast in the direction of Tom Hicks and George Gillett for sanctioning a £20.3m deal for a 28-year-old, a fee which most observers thought was grossly exaggerated, at a time when they would not back their manager's judgement that £18m was a price worth paying for Barry.
    Liverpool's co-owners have been guilty of the most alarming dereliction of duty and have quite literally fiddled while Rome burns. They have had it in their gift to impose a chain of command in which each link is connected by trust but have singularly failed to do so.
    What's more, the Americans have actually made things worse by playing Benitez and Parry off against one another in their quest to rid the club of one another when they should have been looking for ways to make the relationship between manager and chief executive work better.
    The whole situation stinks to high heaven and it is Liverpool's reputation which has taken the biggest battering.
    Robbie Keane's dream move was doomed to fail from the very start, now Liverpool must return to the values which made them the team to support when the Irishman was a boy or else the newly installed Spurs skipper won't be the last victim of this ongoing civil war.
    In fact, there is already another one waiting in line because unless the impasse over Daniel Agger's contract is resolved – he has been waiting for the club to speak to him about his future since November – the Danecould be next through the exit door as his sense of utter bemusement is growing with every passing day.
    The same could be said of Liverpool's fans who deserve better.
    So much better.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    Mr Alan wrote: »
    read my post before responding.

    i said both are equally average/not good enough on their todd up front on their own. WE had an opportunity to get shot of the older one & recoup 16m. Rafa took it.

    Here's an interesting article from TB

    (not links, just for you Mike ;))




    But he shouldnt of taken it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,968 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Good to see Barrett agrees with me about failing to sign a replacement for Keane. What a mess alround. As for the Agger business - wake up Parry!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,372 ✭✭✭✭Mr Alan


    But he shouldnt of taken it.

    why not? to give aul robbie the nice irish lad a break?

    Simple fact is that if he wasnt Irish, no one would give a ****. While i can get that to an extent, his nationality is irrelevant to me.....Rafa is a lot more important to Liverpool than Robbie Keane.

    I agree Mike, would have much prefered a replacement player to be signed-preferably Heskey.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    Mr Alan wrote: »
    why not? to give aul robbie the nice irish lad a break?

    Simple fact is that if he wasnt Irish, no one would give a ****. While i can get that to an extent, his nationality is irrelevant to me.....Rafa is a lot more important to Liverpool than Robbie Keane.

    I agree Mike, would have much prefered a replacement player to be signed-preferably Heskey.



    I couldnt give toss about him being Irish, personnally I hate the chap but I'd much rather then Ngog and Babel, both of which are awful. Keane wasnt doing great but he wasnt given much chance either. When your challenging for the premiership the last thing a manager should do is be selling one of his regular players while having absolutly no replacement to bring in.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,446 ✭✭✭✭jesus_thats_gre


    The biggest gripe I have with Rafa is that he makes to many decisions that have me scratching my head thinking "wtf?". I doubt any United fan has the same with Fergie or any chelsea fan did with Jose or even Avram. Scolari is in his first season and we are very lucky of that.

    If Arsenal/Wenger spend the kind of money rafa has it would be scary to think how good they are..


    Read the United vs Chelsea match thread that United won 3 nil.. If you have any doubts whether AF makes decisions that United supports don't get or agree with, that should clear it up for you.. Then go check most the match threads for their CL matches in recent years.

    Go the the Arsenal thread and ask a few of them what they think of Wenger signing another attacking midfielder and not a defensive midfielder.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    Read the United vs Chelsea match thread that United won 3 nil.. If you have any doubts whether AF makes decisions that United supports don't get or agree with, that should clear it up for you.. Then go check most the match threads for their CL matches in recent years.

    Go the the Arsenal thread and ask a few of them what they think of Wenger signing another attacking midfielder and not a defensive midfielder.




    Tbh I'd value boardies football views about as much as I'd value OJ simpsons view on how a to treat a wife on valentines day.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,929 ✭✭✭raven136


    what has wenger won in the time Rafa has been here?

    The abuse Rafa takes from the media and even sections of his own fans is disgraceful.

    "he is not good enough for liverpool manager" "if arsenal and chelsea were right this season imagine how bad a position liverpool would be in now"...thats part of a conversation between the host and a caller on that today fm phone in today.Absurd:mad:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,089 ✭✭✭✭Headshot


    Read the United vs Chelsea match thread that United won 3 nil.. If you have any doubts whether AF makes decisions that United supports don't get or agree with, that should clear it up for you..
    .

    ya that line for utd was very strange indeed

    Ronaldo
    Fletcher
    van der Sar
    Neville
    Evans
    Park
    Vidic
    Evra
    Giggs
    Berbatov
    Rooney

    alot of us utd fans were giving out stink about the line up but what do we know tbh compared to a manager who has won trophies like fa cup,CL and PL
    we should never dought a CL winner

    fans dont have a clue about their team compared to the manager


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    raven136 wrote: »
    what has wenger won in the time Rafa has been here?

    The abuse Rafa takes from the media and even sections of his own fans is disgraceful.

    "he is not good enough for liverpool manager" "if arsenal and chelsea were right this season imagine how bad a position liverpool would be in now"...thats part of a conversation between the host and a caller on that today fm phone in today.Absurd:mad:




    How much has Wenger spend in the time rafa has been here?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,089 ✭✭✭✭Headshot


    How much has Wenger spend in the time rafa has been here?

    wenger doesnt have the money the other top 3 clubs have, but when he have some money, he bought very badly

    likes of reyes costing Arsenal around 17 million and other buys Francis jeffers
    etc

    Arsenal are 5th ,pool are 1st (not for long)

    so what Manager bought the best


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    Headshot wrote: »
    wenger doesnt have the money the other top 3 clubs have, but when he have some money, he bought very badly

    likes of reyes costing Arsenal around 17 million and other buys Francis jeffers
    etc

    Arsenal are 5th ,pool are 1st (not for long)

    so what Manager bought the best



    I could easily name some shocking buys Fergie and Rafa have made aswell though. Wenger is one of the best managers and uncovering talent I think.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,929 ✭✭✭raven136


    quick calculation after looking through the present squad and adding in reyes its about 90m.Thats not small money.

    12m for arshavin
    17for reyes
    5(rising to 12)for walcott

    small clubs with small budgets dont do that.

    He unearths gems as does rafa.agger for 7 or sagna for 7.5.Rafa never gets the credit for his great transfer moves or his ability to shift out and make a small profit on players that didnt work out


This discussion has been closed.
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