Recruitment agencies - name, shame (and praise)

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 29-12-2008 03:56PM

AARRRGH wrote: »

You generally can't tell if a job is fake.

Did you follow any of the advice I gave you about your poor cover letter, or are you still using the cover letter you sent me...?

No I am using a differant one. Last two interviews were more like advice sessions from the recruitment companies, WTF is that about? Since when is that their job? It annoyed me as I thought I was being put forward for a position.

herya · 29-12-2008 03:59PM

Are you applying for junior or senior positions? It's fairly standard to give some tips to junior candidates if they want to keep you on their books. You can always ask upfront whether the interview is about an actual position and not to make an appointment if it's not.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 29-12-2008 04:27PM

herya wrote: »

Are you applying for junior or senior positions? It's fairly standard to give some tips to junior candidates if they want to keep you on their books. You can always ask upfront whether the interview is about an actual position and not to make an appointment if it's not.

Junior position (any position) At the moment I really don't care, I am not searching so much, maybe one or two every second day. Lost the will really.

Anyway, last interview was supposedly for a job, a pretty good one. But when I got there she mentioned nothing about it until I asked. Which still wasn't much. It's just annoying getting dressed up, going into town and to be told what you already know, get on the dole, apply for jobs bla bla bla... rubbish.

dublinpd · 29-12-2008 04:34PM

I've had the same experience in IT Force, an interview, a test in a canteen, in my case the woman's said that because I'm foreign and my english and my knowledge had not been specified (at that time was true).
After all, said that has no contract jobs and would contact me if any part-time came up.

In fact as foreign, I'm still out of IT market here that's upsetting me...

eth0_ · 29-12-2008 07:26PM

dublinpd wrote: »

I've had the same experience in IT Force, an interview, a test in a canteen,

Hahah they're still at that? I went for an "interview" with them for a specific job i'd applied (and was more than qualified) for about three years ago.

She took me into the canteen and gave me a really unchallenging I.T. test. I was really p*ssed off that she expected people to do a test in a canteen when people were having lunch and talking all around me.

She didn't really interview me as such, and said there was no job per se, they were just scouting for people to have on their books! The wagon knew I was out of work and she basically wasted several hours of my day knowing the job I applied for was non-existent!

dublinpd wrote: »

After all, said that has no contract jobs and would contact me if any part-time came up.

Same here. I heard back from them - wait for it - TWO YEARS LATER! And not even to ask if I was interested in a job, it was just asking if I was still looking for work.

So that's another company to steer clear of, I.T. Force...

flash harry · 30-12-2008 03:30PM

uaobrien wrote: »

I wonder if they could be caught under false advertising.

I actually found out a job's origin after talking to an agency about it. I enquired about the position from the company directly (as the agency were giving the run around). They company wrote me back stating they had no current vacancies. This was in November.

Not only is the job still posted by the agency, two subsequent postings under modified titles exist. Sure they can be reported to the Advertising Standards Authority for Ireland.

Actually I think I'll call ASAI and ask.

Edit: Will have to wait till 5th Jan. Office is closed till then.

Would love to see response if you complain to the NRF but as its a lot easier to moan on boards I guess you probably wont:

http://www.nrf.ie/members-details.aspx?id=38

uaobrien · 30-12-2008 05:58PM

flash harry wrote: »

Would love to see response if you complain to the NRF but as its a lot easier to moan on boards I guess you probably wont:

http://www.nrf.ie/members-details.aspx?id=38

Actually I didn't even know such a place existed, I'll do a double whammy using my example plus the Colorado example above on 5th Jan, will report to both NRF and ASAI.

Will post their responses.

So stay tuned folks....

uaobrien · 30-12-2008 06:07PM

Abby Witty Snack wrote: »

Ok, how can one tell if that job is a fake or not? I use agencies every day, guess how many phone calls I get? NONE...

Well I usually look for similar jobs specs in multiple agencies for 'real' jobs. I go on the premise that, especially in a market like this, a company will not employ one agency when they can employ a few to get candidates.

Agencies don't get paid until they place their candidate, afaik, so it's no skin off a company's nose to use many. Also when every agency is phoning you looking for scraps, why not use them.

Stay away from the jobs posted solely by one agency. In very rare instances, a company may choose to use only one agency, but in this market it doesn't make sense.

Another rule of thumb, don't apply for jobs where they blatantly tell you they won't call back "due to the numbers of applicants". Seriously, what recruitment knob would even believe that'd be an incentive for applicants. "Send your CV in to us and I guarantee you you'll never hear a thing."

Just my rules of thumb.

I could be completely wrong.

uaobrien · 30-12-2008 06:14PM

uaobrien wrote: »

Actually I didn't even know such a place existed, I'll do a double whammy using my example plus the Colorado example above on 5th Jan, will report to both NRF and ASAI.

Will post their responses.

So stay tuned folks....

By the way, if anyone has any more verifiable examples I can report to ASAI and NRF please either PM me or post them here before Sunday night and I'll use them too.

If we get enough of them we might be able to drum up some press interest too - now that would be the ultimate name and shame for the guilty agencies.

"Recruitment agencies dupe jobseekers - making recession worse for some"

herya · 30-12-2008 06:53PM

uaobrien wrote: »

Agencies don't get paid until they place their candidate, afaik, so it's no skin off a company's nose to use many. Also when every agency is phoning you looking for scraps, why not use them.

Actually it does make sense to restrict the number of agencies you are dealing with - otherwise you end up with countless consultants contacting you to ask questions about the roles, trying to push other CVs they now have etc. There is a limit how many recruitment people can be serviced by one HR person. Professional HR departments usually have preferred suppliers list of 4-8 agencies, reviewed yearly. I agree that one agency agreements are unheard of nowadays.

uaobrien wrote: »

Another rule of thumb, don't apply for jobs where they blatantly tell you they won't call back "due to the numbers of applicants". Seriously, what recruitment knob would even believe that'd be an incentive for applicants. "Send your CV in to us and I guarantee you you'll never hear a thing."

Again I would not rely on this too much. The number of applications is mindboggling, it might be up to 30 for a junior and around 3-5 for a senior role advertised - daily. 70% is absolutely irrelevant (they don't meet requirements at all - retail managers applying for senior IT roles etc) and further 20% is only mildly relevant (experience way too short, not the required sector etc). Maybe 10% is worth considering at all. Now multiply it by the number of roles you have - there is no way all these applicants could be contacted individually... We send an automated response to acknowledge that we received the application and to give an estimated time when the candidate will be contacted if their application is successful. After that we get back to the relevant applicants only. Or if they are not a good match for the role they applied for but we may have sth suitable soon we let them know too.

uaobrien · 30-12-2008 07:39PM

herya wrote: »

Actually it does make sense to restrict the number of agencies you are dealing with ... Professional HR departments usually have preferred suppliers list of 4-8 agencies, reviewed yearly. I agree that one agency agreements are unheard of nowadays.

Herya, the point I was making was to look for a similar or matching spec on multiple recruitment sites as it is more likely to be a real offering. I don't believe HR depts. use every agency that approaches them, but as you mentioned they will use a few.

herya wrote: »

... We send an automated response to acknowledge that we received the application and to give an estimated time when the candidate will be contacted if their application is successful. After that we get back to the relevant applicants only. Or if they are not a good match for the role they applied for but we may have sth suitable soon we let them know too.

Then I congratulate you on your professionalism. However, the original requestor's contention seemed to be, and I can add from my own recent experience of job hunting also, that no communications are being received from the agencies they apply to. I take that to mean they are receiving no cursory automated response of receipt, nor even a "thank you for your interest". Therefore you appear to be the exception to the general rule these days as you may note from the amount of disgruntled posts

But as I mentioned they are just my rules of thumb, I can appreciate that people may not find them as applicable as I have.

herya · 30-12-2008 07:51PM

Sure, I'm not disputing your point - I'm just trying to provide some insight from the other side hoping that it might help understand how the agencies work and how to use them to your advantage.

From my own job seeking days I remember that I had no clue about the application process. Nobody told me that it makes no sense to apply for the same position through various agencies as well as directly. Nobody told me that an agency might want to bring me in for an interview even if they have no jobs available, just to register me on their books, and that I can refuse to waste my time on this if I don't feel it makes sense right now.

I could have used this knowledge back then so I hope somebody might use it now

uaobrien · 30-12-2008 08:22PM

herya wrote: »

...Nobody told me that an agency might want to bring me in for an interview even if they have no jobs available, just to register me on their books, and that I can refuse to waste my time on this if I don't feel it makes sense right now.

You know, obvious as that point is, its still incredibly insightful and worth remembering, as I'm sure most people overlook it (I know I have until you mentioned it).

There's no obligation on us to run into an agency because they want to make an appointment to 'talk'. But I think we're all a little reluctant to say no, don't want to bite the hand that's (supposedly) feeding us, fearing of some unseen or imaginary consequence.

Thank you for that

dirtydress · 31-12-2008 02:18AM

Ive had mostly terrible experiences with agencies. I really cant stand those who just dont call you back or dont even acknowledge that you contacted them, its so rude and it speaks volumes about how they will deal with you if you WERE suitable.

Anyway:

Top People Great.... initially. They have loads of boring jobs on offer and push you to go for them. They got me to go for some ridiculous job in Ernst and Young that was just typing memos all. day. long. I told her I didnt want it, it was worse than the job I had already but she said the interview would be good experience. So naively I went, felt bad for the interviewer because I knew and she knew I didnt want the job. After I told the recruiter that in (shock) didnt want the position they offered, she never called me again.
They're interested in filling positions, not getting the right people for them. Lots of blondey girls who try to be your best mate which means they dont like you saying no to roles.

Progressive Placements A non-agency, theyre offices are scary and empty and there were only 2 quite young girls in the whole building when I went in. It reminded me of two girls playing recruitment agency.

Julia Ross Finally, a good agency. Got me my last job, very helpful, do an amazingly detailed skills test and are genuinely interested in getting you into a job you will like. Were honest about the good and bad points about the job, asked ME what I wanted. Definitely recommend them.

MysticalSoul · 01-01-2009 06:38AM

Select Appointments: Absolutely rubbish. I register, then find a job on my own, and at least once a year get an email from them wondering if I am looking to move etc. If I do decide to re-register and meet someone there, all is ok at that point. However once I am on the books, they never return calls or emails (despite on one occasion, telling me about a specific job they felt I was suitable for).

Top Sec: At the outset, seemed professional enough, however they arranged an interview for me. All seems good. I had told them about another position I was also going for interview for. They seemed ok with that. However I got offered the position of the company not connected with the agency, and in terms of location etc it suited my requirements more closely, so decided to accept it. I rang the agency to tell them this, and they tried to preessurise me into going for interview anyway, regardless. I stood my ground, and then was told, they needed someone to go for interview, and if I knew anyone who could go for the interview instead if I could let them know :eek:

Meghan Recruitment: Overall have been helpful. However did have the occasion once of being told about a position. ANyway, someone I worked it at the time had recently been for an interview with this company, and told they were looking for someone with more experience, and as we had the same amount of experience in the field, told the agency this. They told me, due to lack of interest they are now willing to train the right person up for the job, so I went along for the interview, and the agency came back to me saying I had not enough experience. :rolleyes:

lady_j · 02-01-2009 12:50PM

I'm on the books of noel recruitment, adecco and julia ross at the moment.

Noel Recruitment call me every thursday without fail, ring straight to my voicemail, tell me there is a great job they want to put me forward to and ring ring back asap. I do, every thurs, leave a message with the receptionist as my agent is always on the phone, then I ring again and again and I never hear back until the following thursday when they ring my voicemail again.

Adecco adviced me that there was loads of jobs and proceeded to show me the list of jobs they had that week, all four of them :rolleyes:

Julia Ross Initially found them quite good and positive. They appear to have a lot of people on their books and ring constantly to see who's available and who's not. Which is good until they call over christmas and tell me that I've now been put on the available list... all well and good but I did register with them 3 months ago so not sure why I only went on that list now...

Got my first voicemail of the new year from noel recruitment.... hear we go again

AARRRGH · 02-01-2009 12:54PM

Just my opinion...

descry wrote: »

Noel Recruitment call me every thursday without fail, ring straight to my voicemail, tell me there is a great job they want to put me forward to and ring ring back asap. I do, every thurs, leave a message with the receptionist as my agent is always on the phone, then I ring again and again and I never hear back until the following thursday when they ring my voicemail again.

That sounds a bit weird, but perhaps they are getting another candidate for the job before you ring back?

descry wrote: »

Adecco adviced me that there was loads of jobs and proceeded to show me the list of jobs they had that week, all four of them :rolleyes:

I can't blame them for the lack of jobs at the moment, but yeah, they shouldn't tell you they have "loads" of jobs.

descry wrote: »

Julia Ross Initially found them quite good and positive. They appear to have a lot of people on their books and ring constantly to see who's available and who's not. Which is good until they call over christmas and tell me that I've now been put on the available list... all well and good but I did register with them 3 months ago so not sure why I only went on that list now...

Got my first voicemail of the new year from noel recruitment.... hear we go again

Just a thought:

Are you waiting for agencies to hand you a job, or are you checking the jobsites/newspapers/company websites yourself on a daily basis too?

lady_j · 02-01-2009 02:57PM

AARRRGH wrote: »

Just my opinion...

That sounds a bit weird, but perhaps they are getting another candidate for the job before you ring back?

They don't ring my phone, they ring my voicemail directly. I realise the job market is slow, I just wish they would only ring me when there is a suitable job instead of wasting my time with these frustrating voicemails

AARRRGH wrote: »

Just a thought:

Are you waiting for agencies to hand you a job, or are you checking the jobsites/newspapers/company websites yourself on a daily basis too?

I realise you are just stating your opinion, but I am currently unemployed so I am urgently trying to get a job and haven't the luxury of being reliant on agencies. I am keeping in touch with agencies I have registered with (not just the three mentioned), but I'm assuming the agencies won't get me a job due to my recent experiences with them. I have been put forward for completely irrelevant jobs, been sent on terrible temp jobs and receive inane calls every couple of weeks where they are obviously ringing people for something to do.

The number of companies advertising their jobs directly seems to have increased, not using agencies for recruitment is a cost saving measure. I am applying for jobs daily, and I have had a few interviews so am hopeful something will come through. Not one of my decent interviews came from an agency.

AARRRGH · 02-01-2009 04:42PM

Yeah, it's tough alright. I remember (although I know it's not quite the same) being unemployed after the dot-com boom. It was very frustrating and disheartening getting no where.

As you know, all you can do is keep at it and hope someone bites.

Best of luck!

eth0_ · 02-01-2009 07:34PM

AARRRGH wrote: »

Are you waiting for agencies to hand you a job, or are you checking the jobsites/newspapers/company websites yourself on a daily basis too?

Theoretically, once you register with a recruitment company, you shouldn't have to go on their website on a daily basis to search for and apply for jobs that THEY should match to YOUR CV.

But unfortunately the majority of recruitment agents are lazy sh*tes who do little more than scan a CV, take the contact details off, forward it to a potential employer and then take their 5% minimum fee.

uaobrien · 04-01-2009 09:33PM

uaobrien wrote: »

I wonder if [the recruitment agencies] could be caught under false advertising.

...

Actually I think I'll call ASAI and ask.

Edit: Will have to wait till 5th Jan. Office is closed till then.

uaobrien wrote: »

By the way, if anyone has any more verifiable examples I can report to ASAI and NRF please either PM me or post them here before Sunday night and I'll use them too...

Well for all the moaning and whining about the agencies, we still only have two verifiable examples of 'fake' posts by agencies.

I'll take both to ASAI and NRF tomorrow, but was thinking we might have come up with a little more than that. I'll give a quick check tomorrow morning before I call these places.

uaobrien · 04-01-2009 09:40PM

flash harry wrote: »

Would love to see response if you complain to the NRF but as its a lot easier to moan on boards I guess you probably wont:

http://www.nrf.ie/members-details.aspx?id=38

Actually no offence harry, but if you're into criticizing people attempting to get things done, what's keeping you from getting off your todd and phoning ASAI and NRF. Their contact details are available to the public.

From the above comment, you sound like a 'man of action'. So how about putting your money where your mouth is.

I'm making my calls tomorrow and will post the news of what happens.

uaobrien · 05-01-2009 01:52PM

uaobrien wrote: »

I'll take both to ASAI and NRF tomorrow, but was thinking we might have come up with a little more than that. I'll give a quick check tomorrow morning before I call these places.

Well I didn't go to NRF, called ASAI first and they asked me to submit the complaint in writing which I duly did.

They said they'll follow up directly with the agencies in question.

Interestingly, as I was explaining the situation, they mentioned they received a similar mail already today regarding recruitment agencies.

I'll give it a week and then I'll follow up.

flash harry · 05-01-2009 07:11PM

sorry Una only saw that now - I'm actually a recruiter but I hate seeing people just moan, name names even though its all completely unsubstantiated (spelling?) and not complain through official channels when they are available.

I try do right by people thats why I suggested you complaining to a governing body like the NRF as I certainly have nothing to hide from - I've suggested it before but no one, until now has responded, but have continued to moan etc.

One last thing in general, I know how bad recruiters can be - I've sat the other side of the desk as well and heard all the crap, but there are some, albeit not a lot, of good recruiters out there.

FH

ps I also have a media contact who may be interested in substantiated complaints and the reaction from ASAI & NRF

Newbie_2009 · 08-01-2009 09:13PM

For construction, I have always found ICDS a very good company to deal with, I found them honest and helpful. They were always upfront with the information about the jobs

I have had some dealings with MCR. Just ask anyone who has worked for them they tell you all about them. I wouldnt go near them again with a barge pole myself, not that they have many jobs in Irl anymore!

tumbledown · 09-01-2009 01:19PM

Newbie_2009 wrote: »

For construction, I have always found ICDS a very good company to deal with, I found them honest and helpful. They were always upfront with the information about the jobs

I have had some dealings with MCR. Just ask anyone who has worked for them they tell you all about them. I wouldnt go near them again with a barge pole myself, not that they have many jobs in Irl anymore!

Your not joking, had experience of MCR myself - possibly the most incredibly inept, greedy and downright horrible bunch of fkrs ever put together in a building since the formation of the Nazi party. Dreadful doesn't even begin to describe their operation or the people that run the place. The only good thing of the construction implosion is that parasites like this (not referring to the poor devils that are directly employed by them) will soon find themsel out of business.

As a side note, my best friend was made redundant this morning and many more of my friends are staring down the same barrel. Its all just so frustrating - study hard in school to get into college or do your trade, either way qualify and then the country goes to pot . . . . fup sake

10-01-2009 01:16AM

Adecco - Called me out to Swords for an interview for a job they lined up for me, interview was more like getting my life story.
Anyway they said the would call me that evening or next day about the job and not a call was made.
This happened about 6 months ago.

fingal hoop · 10-01-2009 01:25AM

agencies I have dealt with

Top People - found them very professional & helpful
Manpower - ok, didnt send me for the speicfic role i was interested in
Mary B - friendly staff- not great range of jobs

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 12-01-2009 06:51PM

Not an agency but a company. Pokerkings, situated in Cherrywood just off the N11. They advertise for lots and lots of jobs, I applied to one where there were 10 positions available. Not the hardest of jobs but something I have some experience in. That was back in november, still I have recieved no mail or phone call, despite ringing them twice and leaving my contact details. Really inconsiderate of people to ignore you. E-mails don't cost anything, the 2-3 minutes it takes to write it might, but is common curtosy that cheap?

PurpleBerry · 13-01-2009 02:09PM

I don't know if I should name and shame the agency here, because I have worked with them before and they secured me a good job. I went back to them but that person had left so I was talking to a different recruiter.

An interview was arranged for Friday morning. In the e-mail with all of the details I noticed there was no building name or number, the address was just in the IFSC. Well, as I know the IFSC fairly well I thought I'd head out to the address as best I could and when I got there the plan was to ring the agency to ask for the complete address.

So that's what I did. The person I was dealing with didn't know so she said she would get in touch with a collegue that did know and get back to me. She got back and said to look for "a building with a white sofa in it." I had a look but couldn't find any building with a white sofa, not that I could see from the street, so after 10 minutes of searching I rang the agency back asking for more (read:better) directions. This time I was given the mobile number of the interviewer.

I rang the interviewer, the phone rang out. I tried for about five or six times, each time the phone rang out. By this time it was 20 minutes after the interview was scheduled for. I rang the agency back to say that the interviewer was not answering and I wasn't able to wait around for much longer as I had another appointment. the agency knew this as when they originally offered me the interview for Friday morning I said I had another appointment but I ended up rescheduling it to make way for the interview.

I left the interviewer a voice message saying to please contact the agency if they wanted to re-schedule. I apologised for the errors (out of politeness) but in truth I was preety annoyed. I'd wasted over 3 hours of my morning and re-scheduled an appointment to make this interview and I felt that I was being messed around. Where was the interviewer and why didn't they pick up the phone? My husband told me to look on the bright side, that I'd probably had a lucky escape if the company was that disorganized.

Recruitment agencies - name, shame (and praise)

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