Whats the best piece of advice you have recieved regarding mixing?

Fluffington · 14-12-2008 10:54AM #1

Any tips or tricks that you have come across that changed your way of approaching mixing. Any tips in general? Thanks

Neurojazz · 14-12-2008 10:59AM

This book by Bob Katz is very good reference for technical info

http://books.google.ie/books?id=EBCmpwGCROMC&dq=Bob+Katz&pg=PP1&ots=zZO4wpugCf&source=an&sig=GkKqNTuBdXYzGx6v9KySbPiNI9U&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=5&ct=result

TelePaul · 14-12-2008 12:00PM

Fix it in the tracking.

14-12-2008 12:18PM

TelePaul wrote: »

Fix it in the tracking.

Like an old lecturer of mine described it - "you can put the sh*te back into the horse"
definitely an important piece of advice...
double tracking guitars is another one

that and needs more cowbell.:D

dav nagle · 14-12-2008 12:45PM

Take the low frequencies and cut them off to create more space in a mix
As mentioned bad tracking can very easily mean a bad mix
Valves will warm up the digital domain so a nice bit of valve outboard is always nice
Bus your plug ins when you can
Ask for opinions from friends, musicians, family
Watch how much reverb you use

studiorat · 14-12-2008 01:57PM

-Make sure it's right going in the pointy end.

-Listen at different volumes and on different systems.

-Always keep checking anything you are doing Eq'ing or dymanics or stuff to by bypassing the effect and listening to the difference.

-Performance and groove are everything, if it's not really kicking and grabbing your attention it's not going to suddenly just get better sitting on your drive.
Unless you are Lee Scratch Perry an g'wan blow ganja smoke on dem tape.

-Even if something sounds "bad" people will still enjoy listening to is if it's good music.

PaulBrewer · 14-12-2008 04:03PM

Use Ns10s

seannash · 14-12-2008 04:56PM

switch to logic(was on ableton before)
buy good monitors(i know its obvious but you dont think its true til you get them)
clearing out the bottom of my higher frequency sounds
use reverb on a send
start with my faders at -10 instead of zero

pull all faders down and build the track around the kick.

well those helped me no end,pretty basic stuff for most of you guys i imagine but stuff i never knew about

Seziertisch · 14-12-2008 09:41PM

Something that is well recorded and with a specific role and sound in mind for each instrument part will be easier to mix.

If you are recording yourself then consider improving your recording techniques and (if possible) your recording front end. A good mic, cable, pre/outboard and converters will make it a hell of a lot easier when it comes to mixing. Decide as you are recording roughly the sound and direction you want the things to have. Saying you will decide afterwards is all well and good, but having a concrete vision is far better. Leaving infinite choice is not necessarily a good thing. I read once about how too much choice in life makes people unhappy. You go into the supermarket to buy butter and you are immediately confronted with an array of butter and butter-like products. You then spend a few minutes weighing up your options. This is valuable time lost. Sometimes this can be good on an audio level, but other times if you feel strongly about something don't be afraid to go for it.

Of course a good recording space also goes without saying. It doesn't have to be perfect, it could be your bedroom or wherever but just listen out for any frequency anomalies/build ups and go about doing something to remedy it. A friend of mine recording in his room rearranged the furniture and found a vast improvement in sound, which was audible as soon as you walked in there.

Also, if you are recording instruments the better the instrument the better the sound you will get in the end. For example, a high-end acoustic guitar should, and in my experience, does give a far more balanced sound, requires almost no EQ and will immediately sit better in a lot of cases, whereas a cheaper instrument will have too much of certain frequencies and too little of others and how it sits will be much more dependent on the quality of the gear you are using for mixing i.e you might have an eq plug-in which is fine for removing things here and there but really doesn't cut it for big boosts and cuts. Even with the very best eq plugin this might work, you might get it sounding pretty good but it will feel like dressing mutton as lamb.

tweeky · 14-12-2008 11:59PM

Seziertisch wrote: »

Something that is well recorded and with a specific role and sound in mind for each instrument part will be easier to mix.

If you are recording yourself then consider improving your recording techniques and (if possible) your recording front end. A good mic, cable, pre/outboard and converters will make it a hell of a lot easier when it comes to mixing. Decide as you are recording roughly the sound and direction you want the things to have. Saying you will decide afterwards is all well and good, but having a concrete vision is far better. Leaving infinite choice is not necessarily a good thing. I read once about how too much choice in life makes people unhappy. You go into the supermarket to buy butter and you are immediately confronted with an array of butter and butter-like products. You then spend a few minutes weighing up your options. This is valuable time lost. Sometimes this can be good on an audio level, but other times if you feel strongly about something don't be afraid to go for it.

Of course a good recording space also goes without saying. It doesn't have to be perfect, it could be your bedroom or wherever but just listen out for any frequency anomalies/build ups and go about doing something to remedy it. A friend of mine recording in his room rearranged the furniture and found a vast improvement in sound, which was audible as soon as you walked in there.

Also, if you are recording instruments the better the instrument the better the sound you will get in the end. For example, a high-end acoustic guitar should, and in my experience, does give a far more balanced sound, requires almost no EQ and will immediately sit better in a lot of cases, whereas a cheaper instrument will have too much of certain frequencies and too little of others and how it sits will be much more dependent on the quality of the gear you are using for mixing i.e you might have an eq plug-in which is fine for removing things here and there but really doesn't cut it for big boosts and cuts. Even with the very best eq plugin this might work, you might get it sounding pretty good but it will feel like dressing mutton as lamb.

A great musician can make a plank sound great but a poor muso will never make a great instrument sound great!

dav nagle · 15-12-2008 12:08AM

tweeky wrote: »

A great musician can make a plank sound got but a poor muso will never make a great instrument sound great!

Here here

Seziertisch · 15-12-2008 12:29AM

tweeky wrote: »

A great musician can make a plank sound got but a poor muso will never make a great instrument sound great!

... he asked about mixing, specifically about the sound of recordings. I would consider musicianship a different ballgame. No matter how good someones technique it isn't going to compensate for their instrument being problematic to mix. They can hit it what way they like, but it ain't going to get rid of an unwanted resonance or magically restore absent frequencies.

I have yet to see the chord strumming technique that can save a sh*te acoustic from sounding like a sh*te acoustic. And in cases of it being more virtuoso stuff and the performance is good the deficiencies perceived will be blamed on the recordist/mixer and not the player. So rather than honing your drastic eqing skills it is probably better to actually sort out the problem at the source.

I have also yet to encounter the any musician that has sounded worse using a great instrument than a poorish one.

It is also the case that most great musicians care deeply about their sound and are very picky about what instrument/gear they use. It might not necessarily be the "best" but it is by no means a random choice.

On top of the fact that the law of averages suggests that most of us will never get to record a truely great musician ever in our lives.

tweeky · 15-12-2008 01:12AM

I have also yet to encounter the any musician that has sounded worse using a great instrument than a poorish one.

It will still sound bad. The public don't give a toss about eq unless it is un listenable. Better instrument or not, poor playing on the take will still sound bad to their ears. Even if the player is not the best, work on his part, give encouragement, timing, tuning and lots of edits will get a better performance.
Definitely use the best gear at hand, but better performances generally need less eq and compression. Best advice is to fix the playing before the mix.

On top of the fact that the law of averages suggests that most of us will never get to record a truely great musician ever in our lives.

You never know, sometimes the most famous musicians are not always
the best. There are some great musicians in Ireland, fame and fortune for whatever reason hasn't called but they are still great musicians. seek them out. Your tracks will sound instantly better and it will surprise you how modest some of them are.

PaulBrewer · 15-12-2008 02:35AM

tweeky wrote: »

You never know, sometimes the most famous musicians are not always
the best. There are some great musicians in Ireland, fame and fortune for whatever reason hasn't called but they are still great musicians. seek them out. Your tracks will sound instantly better and it will surprise you how modest some of them are.

This is so true ..... over the years my breath has been taken away so many times by studio guys - I used to record loads of Country + Irish and my friends could never understand how I could do it.

The reason was the musicians - I had access to so many great guys who, as well as being First Division at their job, were also inspiring humans to be around.

Whilst the music being recorded was arguably one dimensional, the people making it weren't.

That makes for a very cool working day ... even in 3/4!

progsound · 15-12-2008 08:54AM

Fluffington wrote: »

Any tips in general? Thanks

Parrallel Comp the individual elements of drum kit as well as the drum bus for some extra punch where it is lacking.

H/p the o/h to 600-750hz to get rid of the low end in there this will clear up your mix a lot mostly for metal/hard rock type drum sound where you have the kit close miced.

Seziertisch · 15-12-2008 09:01AM

tweeky wrote: »

It will still sound bad. The public don't give a toss about eq unless it is un listenable. Better instrument or not, poor playing on the take will still sound bad to their ears. Even if the player is not the best, work on his part, give encouragement, timing, tuning and lots of edits will get a better performance.
Definitely use the best gear at hand, but better performances generally need less eq and compression. Best advice is to fix the playing before the mix. .

... he still asked about mixing. If the playing is good he could just set the tape recorder on his old ghetto blaster going and it would still sound ok. It would be better than a proper studio recording of something lesser. Telling that to someone though is not going to improve their mixing skills.

On top of the fact that the playing is almost the one thing that the recordist/engineer cannot influence. You can tell someone go away and practice their part and come back at a later stage, you can offer tips and advice, you can make sure they are tuned etc. but ultimately if it is not happening on the day there is sweet FA you or anyone else can do about it a lot of the time, short of playing the instrument yourself.

Although I do know a guy who has done that on occasion, sent the band home, told them it was fine, then replayed all the guitars himself.

seannash · 15-12-2008 09:10AM

good tip,probably obvious to most of ye but ive never been told this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evJo5_qt6mY

old gregg · 15-12-2008 03:55PM

seannash wrote: »

good tip,probably obvious to most of ye but ive never been told this

well, that was groovy and impressive, thanks

ICN · 15-12-2008 11:02PM

seannash wrote: »

good tip,probably obvious to most of ye but ive never been told this

[/YOUTUBE]

Bob Katz.. Never heard him speak before.. what a Man - machine.

Thats V.cool.

Seziertisch · 15-12-2008 11:43PM

Ay, wisdom from on high is what it is.

seannash · 15-12-2008 11:44PM

i just would never ever have thought to look at a chart to see what fequency the key is.

PaulBrewer · 16-12-2008 12:14AM

No disrespect to anyone but that does seem like pretty basic stuff as an idea.

My opinion on the video is that it's very general and presented in a fashion that implies that 'there you go, this will work every time' .... but think about it, pulling -4db anywhere in that range is going to change the kick not insignificantly.
The relationship the bass will have to the rest of the track will be changed (obviously) as will everything else in that range - keys, piano, low weight of guitars etc i.e it will effectively rebalance a portion of the mix.
And, jaysus, could he not have picked a better track than foul pub rock to make the point?

He also could have addressed how a problem like this could be avoided, looking at room resonances, amp eq etc.

To me it smacks of marketing in the fashion that raises my eyebrows with Sound on Sound sometimes, namely delivering information to an audience keen to accept the simple solution when the real solution is much more complex and perhaps not as much fun!

The Toilet Roll/Double Sided Sticky Tape will build you Abbey Road approach - however that is only my opinion and is no criticism of the man himself, just this video.

I think Tony Visconti's extension of that idea is much more interesting - He was known in the 70s for making great radio records, T-Rex Bowie etc. and one of the things he'd do was eq harmonic frequencies related to the key.

The most obvious example is the kick and bass.
If you're listening to a track in E on a small speaker system (such as a laptop) you don't hear the low fundamental note (82 and a bit hz) but it's harmonics (164, 328 etc ) that represent the bass to your ear.

So if he boosts 82hz he'll also refer to the harmonics for attention which may or may not get adjusted which could mean a dip at 164 hz in the kick which will directly make space in the most efficient region with minimal eq.

16-12-2008 12:26AM

dang, video's gone...
Am I missing something ridiculously important?:eek:
some good pointers so far!

PaulBrewer · 16-12-2008 12:28AM

tweeky wrote: »

. Best advice is to fix the playing before the mix.
.

Fix the PLAYER before the mix !

jtsuited · 16-12-2008 12:46AM

PaulBrewer wrote: »

No disrespect to anyone but that does seem like pretty basic stuff as an idea.

hence the reason Sean said 'probably fairly obvious to all of you, but it's the first i've heard of it' (or something like that).

It is a very odd video though.

ogy · 16-12-2008 12:54AM

it is a mastering tip, not a recording/mixing tip, so in that regard you can see where he's coming from. it would be a bad mastering engineer who sent a track back to have a part rerecorded because of an overly resonant frequency on one instrument.

on the one hand paul i agree with you, it would probably affect loads of other information in that frequency range but (just for the sake of argument:)) if its a good mix the kick frequencies should ideally be peaking elsewhere and any guitar info there is gonna be masked by that bass frequency anyway no? he is using a "high quality linear phase eq" with a very high Q so the change will be pretty transparent to info around that area too i would say.

PaulBrewer · 16-12-2008 01:01AM

if its a good mix the kick frequencies should ideally be peaking elsewhere and any guitar info there is gonna be masked by that bass frequency anyway no?

If it's a good mix it won't have a frequency ringin' like a bell!

he is using a "high quality linear phase eq" with a very high Q so the change will be pretty transparent to info around that area too i would say

That's true.

Seziertisch · 16-12-2008 09:51AM

I kind of half suspect, the way it didn't seem to adversely affect other stuff that he might have just being taking it out of the bass track.

Still and all a fairly reasonable introduction to what is a fairly useful thing. He even includes the chart with the frequencies with his book.

PaulBrewer · 16-12-2008 10:51AM

There's a Mac widget by Jacklin Studios that will tell you what frequency each note is and vice versa ...

trackmixstudio · 16-12-2008 10:55AM

Low mids (200-800) will make or break the mix.
Get these frequencies punchy but not muddy and you are over half way there.

High and low pass without mercy on individual tracks to get everything to sit in it's own space.

Panning is crucial. If you are having trouble getting something to sit, slowly sweep the pan from left to right and you should find a point where it jumps out.

If you are mixing a guitar band I find it very helpful to bus the guitars and set up a 5db narrowish band cut on the bus and then sweep the frequencies low to high. You should find a cut that will let the snare and vocals come through clearly while keeping the guitars loud. Once you find this frequency adjust the amount of cut to taste.

Using a single band of a multiband compressor works great as a "dynamic eq" letting you compress a certain frequency but not the whole track. This works great for those annoying basslines that jump out on certain notes or to take low mid mush out of guitars without affecting the overall sound.

Neurojazz · 16-12-2008 11:26AM

The book is very, very handy - not full of too much fluff... but agree in a way with paul that it's marketing... the book is hardcore compared to what he's glossing over there...

One other thing is that this guy (Bob Katz), gives you an option to get your book signed by him when you order it - which sort of smells of a pretencious pri*k, but it's still good to have for bedtime reading

Whats the best piece of advice you have recieved regarding mixing?

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