Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

Karmafaerie · 30-11-2008 08:41PM

mormank wrote: »

no why did he go to newcastle over coming back home is the question im lookin for an answer to

Because Real told him they would only sell to Newcastle.
Owen had the choice of spending the next 5 months on Reals bench, and then trying again to instigate a move that wassn't guaranteed, with his family hating every second and suffering, or go to Newcastle, a club practicaly down the road from where he grew up.

Real didn't have to sell.
Liverpool weren't going to raise their asking price.

Owen had no choice, for his family.

mormank · 30-11-2008 08:46PM

my gosh. you guys are like a panto crwod. ye love to dramatise things. spend 5 months in spain with his family going through such physical and mental torment...going throught pain and suffering, going from expensive spanish restaurant to haotel room to posh nightclub...god bless 'em.the poor craters!! give me a break.

you guys...:P

if he wanted to come back to liverpool he would have. it was about the money. jamie is sellin books god love him...OR are we to believe that football super stars are slaves after all...i mean in footballing terms, being FORCED by big bad evil Real Madrid to move from there club to play for Necastle is the worst punishment ever, he mustve really pi@@sed off the president of Real or something..were there any affair rumours about that time...

RasTa · 30-11-2008 08:47PM

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Owen had no choice, for his family.

Where they going to kill his family or something?

rosboy · 30-11-2008 08:50PM

mormank wrote: »

my gosh. you guys are like a panto crwod. ye love to dramatise things. spend 5 months in spain with his family going through such physical and mental torment...going throught pain and suffering, going from expensive spanish restaurant to haotel room to posh nightclub...god bless 'em.the poor craters!! give me a break.

RasTa wrote: »

Where they going to kill his family or something?

Mormank and RasTa are currently setting up a family councelling service. Anyone interested in availing of their services should check out their website www.just-shut-up-and-get-on-with-it.ie

kingshankly · 30-11-2008 08:57PM

owen going to newcastle over liverpool had nothing to do with money he desperatly wanted to come back but liverpool couldnt buy him back a year later for 5 or 6 million more than they paid for him bad buisness to say the least he was caught between a rock a hard place. feel sorry for michael never got the credit he deserves at liverpool the crowd never really took to him like fowler or even torres probably because he was more an england star than a liverpool one saying that dont think hes good enough for liverpool now will never be the same player again and people will expect it from him personally would love to see him back but thats my heart ruling my head imagine a fully fit on form michael owen up front with torres 19 here we come

prendy · 30-11-2008 09:13PM

Arsenal's result is brilliant for us, we need to seriously capitalise tommoro night. makes the hammers game very very important to our season. pity city couldnt capitalise on ladyboy getting sent off.

kingshankly · 30-11-2008 09:16PM

i have a bad feeling about tommorow night our lack of goal recently is starting to worry me i know you only get three points for a win but it would be nice to give west ham a hiding send a message out

jesus_thats_gre · 30-11-2008 09:51PM

Karmafaerie wrote: »

You did read the rest of my posts right.

Negatory.. Have stopped reading both of your posts as everytime I do, it seems to always just result in bickering.

Karmafaerie · 01-12-2008 12:00AM

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Negatory.. Have stopped reading both of your posts as everytime I do, it seems to always just result in bickering.

Try.

It would have made your post pretty pointless.

Karmafaerie · 01-12-2008 12:11AM

mormank wrote: »

my gosh. you guys are like a panto crwod. ye love to dramatise things. spend 5 months in spain with his family going through such physical and mental torment...going throught pain and suffering, going from expensive spanish restaurant to haotel room to posh nightclub...god bless 'em.the poor craters!! give me a break.

you guys...:P

if he wanted to come back to liverpool he would have. it was about the money. jamie is sellin books god love him...OR are we to believe that football super stars are slaves after all...i mean in footballing terms, being FORCED by big bad evil Real Madrid to move from there club to play for Necastle is the worst punishment ever, he mustve really pi@@sed off the president of Real or something..were there any affair rumours about that time...

Ever been in a relationship?
Cause if your job is putting a strain on your family.
Family comes first.
If you don't think so, I pity your current or future family.

And you do realise what a contract is right?
Owen had signed a 4 year deal, for which he had 3 years left.
Which means that no.
Madrid didn't have to sell him anywhere.
And especially not to Liverpool who were offering half the money, because he'd prefer it.

And for all those who say that he should have demanded a move.
Ask Garreth Barry and Christiano how well that en't for them over the summer.
Real owned his contract.
Real had just spent a whole season leaving Owen on the bench while paying him a fortune.
They'd have had no problem doing the same for season more.

If Owen was after the money, he'd have stayed on the Real bench, not moved to Newcastle.

RasTa wrote: »

Where they going to kill his family or something?

Yes.
Yes they were.

L'prof · 01-12-2008 12:26AM

Karmafaerie wrote: »

And for all those who say that he should have demanded a move.
Ask Garreth Barry and Christiano how well that en't for them over the summer.

Or Anelka and Hleb? It's down to the club at the end of the day, some choose to hang on to them, others would get rid to avoid disruption in the team!

Jazzy · 01-12-2008 12:46AM

im glad we didnt get owen back as well. remember he was injured for like a year and a half just after joining the toon.
he likes his horses more then he likes newcastle imo

Karmafaerie · 01-12-2008 02:56AM

jasonorr wrote: »

Or Anelka and Hleb? It's down to the club at the end of the day, some choose to hang on to them, others would get rid to avoid disruption in the team!

Hleb had one year left in his contract.
Compare that with three for Owen.

And Anelka had no time constraints.
He was able to sulk untill he got what he wanted.
Owen had one day, seeing as he signed for Newcastle on transfer deadline day.
It's kinda hard to mount a strike, for one day.

Neither player are comparable to Owens situation.

It's simple really.
If Gerrard had left for Chelsea, he'd be seen as the exact same as Owen by a lot of Liverpool fans.
He stayed, ans is considered "the heart of LFC".
Owen left, and so is clled a traitor.
The fact of the matter is that there was a hairsbreath between them.

It's only natural.
We're a top club, and the idea of our star players wanting to go elsewhere doesn't sit well.
Mcmanaman and Owen were immense players for us, but they left.
So a lot of the good is forgotten.

If Ronaldo had left Utd, then as we all know, most Utd fans would be calling him a traitor for long after he hangs up his boots.

The fact of the matter is, Owen wanted to win things the same as Gerrard.
At the time they didn't think they could do it at Anfield.
It was a virtual coin toss as to which one would leave, and which would go.
When the dust settled Gerrard was the hero, Owen the pantomine villan.

zAbbo · 01-12-2008 11:45AM

8 Million we got for Owen, and a year later we could have got him back for the same, but he opted for Newcastle for 17m.

In both situations, LFC was second to his own personal interests.

Karmafaerie · 01-12-2008 12:13PM

zAbbo wrote: »

8 Million we got for Owen, and a year later we could have got him back for the same, but he opted for Newcastle for 17m.

In both situations, LFC was second to his own personal interests.

We sold him for £8,000,000 with one year left in his contract.
Newcastle bought him for £16,000,000 with three years left in his contract.

Completely different situations.

It was not Owens choice where he went.
He could never even talk to Liverpool as Real never accepted our offer of £8,000,000.
And why would they with another club offering twice as much?!

Owen didn't chose to not come back.
Owen was never given the option of coming back.

Liverpool weren't second choice.
They weren't a bloody option.
He had two choices.
Go to Newcastle, or stay at Real.
Liverpool didn't come into it.

zing · 01-12-2008 12:36PM

Karmafaerie wrote: »

He could never even talk to Liverpool as Real never accepted our offer of £8,000,000.

Yeah - how come he said

I spoke to Liverpool and unfortunately that deal couldn't come off.

There were three great clubs in the frame ....

It was a great decision to have to make - Real Madrid, Newcastle or Liverpool. If the Liverpool deal could have been done ....

taken from http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/n/newcastle_united/4200808.stm

He did meet with Rick & Rafa in Liverpool on the same day he met with the barcodes and obviously he had permission from Real to meet with them. That meeting was very low key (iirc the press knew it was happening but not wheree/when) and the reporrts in the Echo at the time (Bascombe reporting back then) were that Rick & Rafa were trying to test him to see how desperate he was to come back - they wanted him to publicly reject Newcastle and tell Real he only wanted to move to Liverpool. That would have taken Newcastle & everyone else out of the equation. He didn't do that though.

Also - the reports of a move for Owen have been denied today by TB

Meanwhile, Liverpool have no interest whatsoever in re- signing Michael Owen.

Owen is believed to be available for £2m in January and reports yesterday suggested Benitez could be ready to offer him a route back to Anfield.

But the ECHO understands the Reds boss is not even considering making such a move for Owen, who left Anfield shortly after Benitez's arrival in the summer of 2004.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2008/12/01/rafa-benitez-show-no-fear-at-anfield-tonight-liverpool-fc-latest-100252-22377740/

Karmafaerie · 01-12-2008 12:45PM

zing wrote: »

Yeah - how come he said

taken from http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/n/newcastle_united/4200808.stm

He did meet with Rick & Rafa in Liverpool on the same day he met with the barcodes and obviously he had permission from Real to meet with them. That meeting was very low key (iirc the press knew it was happening but not wheree/when) and the reporrts in the Echo at the time (Bascombe reporting back then) were that Rick & Rafa were trying to test him to see how desperate he was to come back - they wanted him to publicly reject Newcastle and tell Real he only wanted to move to Liverpool. That would have taken Newcastle & everyone else out of the equation. He didn't do that though.

Zing, he had one day!

He met with Parry on transfer deadline day.
It all happened at breakneck speed, and As your own quote said...."or Liverpool. If the Liverpool deal could have been done .... "

Real were willing to sell him to Liverpool......for £16,000,000.
Liverpool Weren't willing to spend £16,000,000 for him.

Real gave Liverpool permission to discuss the option with the player, but they never gave Liverpool permission to offer a contract, as Liverpool never met the asking price.

You do realise that unless you're saying that Liverpool met the asking price of £16,000,000 and Owen rejected us (which nobody is saying), you're accusing Liverpool of tapping Owen up?!!!!!

A club can't offer terms to a player untill a fee is agreed between the two clubs.
No fee was agreed, so all that Liverpool could say to Owen was IF we meet an agreement with Real, will you come?
Owen said yes, I'd f*****g love to.
But Liverpool and Real never came to terms.

Not Owens fault.

whatawaster · 01-12-2008 12:53PM

zAbbo wrote: »

8 Million we got for Owen, and a year later we could have got him back for the same, but he opted for Newcastle for 17m.

In both situations, LFC was second to his own personal interests.

Owen owed Liverpool nothing when he left. He cost us nothing, gave us years of service and brought us in 8 million. He was under no obligation (and to say otherwise is idiotic) to sign a new contract so Liverpool could get a larger transfer fee for him.
Liverpool fans really annoy me sometimes. McManaman and Owen were two of our best players of the last 20 years, yet both are much maligned because they dared to want away from Liverpool to further their careers abroad. McManaman did nothing wrong in leaving for free. He signed a contract to play with Liverpool for x number of years, honoured it, was by far our most creative player for years and left.
So instead of complaining about them just be glad that they both (being Everton fans) chose to play for us and not our near neighbours. And try to imagine the sh*te we'd have been in had they not.

zing · 01-12-2008 01:11PM

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Zing, he had one day!

He met with Parry on transfer deadline day.

He met with them on Monday Aug 29th - in the morning too iirc.
Again from the bbc at the time:

Owen travelled to England and met Liverpool boss Rafael Benitez for two-and-a-half hours on Monday before going to Northumberland.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/low/football/teams/n/newcastle_united/4196760.stm
No he didn't have a lot of time but he had a little bit more than the few hours some people make it out to be.

It all happened at breakneck speed, and As your own quote said...."or Liverpool. If the Liverpool deal could have been done .... "

Real were willing to sell him to Liverpool......for £16,000,000.
Liverpool Weren't willing to spend £16,000,000 for him.

Real gave Liverpool permission to discuss the option with the player, but they never gave Liverpool permission to offer a contract, as Liverpool never met the asking price.

You do realise that unless you're saying that Liverpool met the asking price of £16,000,000 and Owen rejected us (which nobody is saying), you're accusing Liverpool of tapping Owen up?!!!!!

I am ? All I said - contrary to what you had claimed - was that he did speak to Liverpool and that that conversation presumably took place with the full knowledge of Real Madrid. I never mentioned contracts, etc.. I was merely refuting your claim that he didn't even speak to Liverpool.

For the record here are a couple of Bascombe's reports on what happened at the time:
http://myliverpoolfc.org/owennews.htm#Geordies_victory_in_race_for_Owen
http://myliverpoolfc.org/owennews.htm#The_truth_behind_Owen_switch

I've seen at least one other more in depth one from Bascombe too over the years but can't find it now.

mormank · 01-12-2008 01:19PM

whatawaster wrote: »

Owen owed Liverpool nothing when he left. He cost us nothing, gave us years of service and brought us in 8 million. He was under no obligation (and to say otherwise is idiotic) to sign a new contract so Liverpool could get a larger transfer fee for him.
Liverpool fans really annoy me sometimes. McManaman and Owen were two of our best players of the last 20 years, yet both are much maligned because they dared to want away from Liverpool to further their careers abroad. McManaman did nothing wrong in leaving for free. He signed a contract to play with Liverpool for x number of years, honoured it, was by far our most creative player for years and left.
So instead of complaining about them just be glad that they both (being Everton fans) chose to play for us and not our near neighbours. And try to imagine the sh*te we'd have been in had they not.

and in the same sense we owe them nothing either. screw em..why should we treat them any better than we would ruud V nistlerooy..oh and remember they would be nothing without liverpool fc either..its a double sided coin im afraid...but i dont see why we should want them back. owen made his bed, now he can sleep in it

Karmafaerie · 01-12-2008 01:26PM

zing wrote: »

He met with them on Monday Aug 29th.
Again from the bbc at the time:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/low/football/teams/n/newcastle_united/4196760.stm
No he didn't have a lot of time but he had a little bit more than the few hours some people make it out to be.

I am ? All I said - contrary to what you had claimed - was that he did speak to Liverpool and that that conversation presumably took place with the full knowledge of Real Madrid. I never mentioned contracts, etc.. I was merely refuting your claim that he didn't even speak to Liverpool.

For the record here are a couple of Bascombe's reports on what happened at the time:
http://myliverpoolfc.org/owennews.htm#Geordies_victory_in_race_for_Owen
http://myliverpoolfc.org/owennews.htm#The_truth_behind_Owen_switch

I've seen at least one other more in depth one from Bascombe too over the years but can't find it now.

Zing, I'm supposed to be the pedantic one.;)

Sorry if my wording wasn't as perfect as it could have been.

I thought it clear seeing as Liverpool would have had to offer Owen a contract in order for it to have been turned down, that I meant Liverpool never offered Owen a contract.

Liverpool never discussed a contract with him.
If they did offer him one, they were tapping him up.

All this talk of money is crap.
Owen was earning a fortune on the Real bench, so money wasn't an issue.
And Liverpool were never given permission to offer Owen a contract, so if money was an issue, you're accussing your club of tapping the player up.

But as whatawaster said.
Owen and Macca have never recieved the respect they deserve, and if Stevie had left, he'd be hated by a lot of our fans.

Before you think about what Owen didn't too for us.
Why not try and think about the 158 goals he did score for us, or the FA Cup final he won.

L'prof · 01-12-2008 01:26PM

Whatever about what he did or didn't do, if you get him cheap...take him, but just don't rely on him!

whatawaster · 01-12-2008 01:42PM

mormank wrote: »

and in the same sense we owe them nothing either. screw em..why should we treat them any better than we would ruud V nistlerooy..oh and remember they would be nothing without liverpool fc either..its a double sided coin im afraid...but i dont see why we should want them back. owen made his bed, now he can sleep in it

Remember the cup finals they each won on their own. That silverware will stay with us forever and is one reason why we should treat them better than RVN.
They deserve more respect than they get from fans who seem to have forgotten their great contribution to our club.

mormank · 01-12-2008 01:50PM

well im sorry if i think that just because they played well in a game in may they dont deserve anymore credit than the likes of smicer or biscan. i will forever have far more respect for luis garcia than even of these pair...he loved the pool more than either i think. and didnt treat them with disdain when leaving, he genuinely wanted to stay etc..as for owen and macca, just like ex girlfriends they can go jump and just got i got a good lay off em once doesnt change that..

look i know what you are saying, im just saying the way that both of them left the club left a bitter taste in my mouth as opposed to alot of other players. they were howngrown players and im sorry if i expect more from them than your day to day journeymen of the game..but i do

whatawaster · 01-12-2008 02:05PM

mormank wrote: »

well im sorry if i think that just because they played well in a game in may they dont deserve anymore credit than the likes of smicer or biscan. i will forever have far more respect for luis garcia than even of these pair...he loved the pool more than either i think. and didnt treat them with disdain when leaving, he genuinely wanted to stay etc..as for owen and macca, just like ex girlfriends they can go jump and just got i got a good lay off em once doesnt change that..

look i know what you are saying, im just saying the way that both of them left the club left a bitter taste in my mouth as opposed to alot of other players. they were howngrown players and im sorry if i expect more from them than your day to day journeymen of the game..but i do

What about the way they left the club irks you?
McManaman, as is required by law, honoured the contract he signed and then, as he was perfectly entitled to do, walked away to further his career.
Michael Owen had a year left on the contract he had signed with Liverpool, wanted to better himself abroad, and the club decided to cash in on him rather than let his contract run down. Making an 8 million profit on the player.

And if you ever got a lay as good and that lasted as long as these two did at Liverpool, you wouldn't be forgetting it in a hurry.

Karmafaerie · 01-12-2008 02:08PM

mormank wrote: »

well im sorry if i think that just because they played well in a game in may they dont deserve anymore credit than the likes of smicer or biscan. i will forever have far more respect for luis garcia than even of these pair...he loved the pool more than either i think. and didnt treat them with disdain when leaving, he genuinely wanted to stay etc..as for owen and macca, just like ex girlfriends they can go jump and just got i got a good lay off em once doesnt change that..

look i know what you are saying, im just saying the way that both of them left the club left a bitter taste in my mouth as opposed to alot of other players. they were howngrown players and im sorry if i expect more from them than your day to day journeymen of the game..but i do

And what about Gerrard and Carra?

Gerrard who was within minutes of following Owen (twice!), or Carra, who says in his autobiography, that he'll leave Liverpool if he's ever not guaranteed 30 starts a season.

If Carra left cause Agger and Skrtel took his place, would that make you hate him?

Karmafaerie · 01-12-2008 02:09PM

whatawaster wrote: »

And if you ever got a lay as good and that lasted as long as these two did at Liverpool, you wouldn't be forgetting it in a hurry.

You wouldn't be walking straight in a hurry either!:D

astrofool · 01-12-2008 02:17PM

Karmafaerie wrote: »

And what about Gerrard and Carra?

Gerrard who was within minutes of following Owen (twice!), or Carra, who says in his autobiography, that he'll leave Liverpool if he's ever not guaranteed 30 starts a season.

If Carra left cause Agger and Skrtel took his place, would that make you hate him?

Mr. Alan will soon be along to correct the errors in your post

Karmafaerie · 01-12-2008 02:24PM

astrofool wrote: »

Mr. Alan will soon be along to correct the errors in your post

Why don't you enlighten me.
(Bearing in mind that I've only finished the book a few days ago, and have it right here infront of me.)

zing · 01-12-2008 02:29PM

Karmafaerie wrote: »

I thought it clear seeing as Liverpool would have had to offer Owen a contract in order for it to have been turned down, that I meant Liverpool never offered Owen a contract.

We're in agreement on that then - Liverpool didn't offer Owen a contract as they were obviously not in a position to do so. Their offer had not been accepted by Real but Real had given Liverpool permission to speak to Owen. Perhaps he had specifically requested permission to speak to Liverpool - I know not or care not about that bit.

After that the events - as I understand them - were that
+. He left Liverpool having been told to reject Newcastle and tell Real he only wanted to sign for Liverpool. Presumably he knew what Liverpool had offered and presumably he was told there would be no movement on that offer. By him rejecting Newcastle it would have - in theory - forced Real's hand and they'd have opened negotiations with Liverpool. Or at least that's what Rafa & Rick appeared to think. Then and only then could Liverpool start to discuss a contract with him.
+. He traveled to meet Freddy Shepard & co. who wined him, dined him and .... made sure Sky Sports, etc.. knew where they were going to be and made sure they took a couple of healthy walks on the hotel grounds so the cameras could pick them up.
+. Newcastle had agreed a fee with Real so presumably were in a position to discuss personal terms, etc.. with him so while I'm sure the finer points weren't ironed out he'd had left there knowing the full extend of what was on offer.
+. He went home and had a good think about it over night
+. He didn't do what Rick & Rafa wanted. Perfectly understandable too - he wanted to sort his future - not leave it dangling. Whether he'd made his mind up before this or not doesn't matter too much - by not rejecting Newcastle he effectively rejected us.
+. He completes his medical on the Tuesday and iirc was unveiled on the Wed (deadline day).

Liverpool never discussed a contract with him.
If they did offer him one, they were tapping him up.

All this talk of money is crap.
Owen was earning a fortune on the Real bench, so money wasn't an issue.
And Liverpool were never given permission to offer Owen a contract, so if money was an issue, you're accussing your club of tapping the player up.

You've lost me again on this - I'd not brought contracts or money into this and I'm not accusing anyone of anything (well apart from accusing you of being wrong about Liverpool not speaking to him

)

Also I'm not sure if I fully believe the stories about his family being unhappy with life in Madrid. Maybe they were - maybe they weren't but he certainly wasn't. There were reports that he'd made numerous approaches to Liverpool via his father during the later half of the 04/05 season about coming back. So when I see the reports of his family being unhappy I tend to substitute the words 'his family' with 'him'. He was bench warming when he wanted to be playing and iirc his England career was starting to suffer a bit (or if it wasn't already it was just a matter of time). It hadn't worked out for him in Madrid and he wanted out.

Owen was a great servant to the club in his day but that day is gone now (for both us & him). Thanks for the memories Michael 'n all that. For me it's a bit like Fowler (in hindsight) - it'll never be as good the second time round.

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