Kanye: the new chapter?

idPlease · 25-11-2008 02:24PM #1

Kanye West is a rapper no? So why on the majority of his new album is he singing??

Is he being 'real' by doing what he wants & feels (i.e. his heartbreak) or is he being 'fake' by just hopping onto the auto-tune train??

What ye think??:cool:

testing_times · 25-11-2008 02:33PM

Kanye is the most over-rated guy out there.
His skills are just not there. Is rhyming skills a re just that, rhyms.
I ain't lovin you
The way I wanted to
But wat I had to do, had to run from you
I'm in love with you, but the vibe is wrong
And that haunted me, all the way home

Not exactly grade A material. What Kayne can do is put together a beat, which is never original just copied. The majority of the time just puts his name to the beast on the album that other people put together.

The New album isn't up to much, once again an album getting credit because of the name attached to it.
What I always ask myself is if this were a debut album from a new artist what would I think. In this case, I would think it would remain as the only album this artist would release.

If your looking for a new, fresh hip hop album I suggest checking out the new Q-Tip release.
Quality tunes, with good beats and honest meaningful lyrics.

Enjoy.

idPlease · 25-11-2008 02:45PM

Ouch!! Not a Kanye fan then i take it!?

So do you then think he is fake as hell?? Copying, stealing etc...

testing_times · 25-11-2008 02:49PM

Well I liked the first album, the nest couple just sounded the same.

I have no prob with a bit of sampling, they all do it but when every track is sampled an the lyrics or the tune aren't really up to scratch it gets boring quickly.

I think Kanye has become a POP star rather then a rapper.
Rappers - Nas, Q-tip, Jay-Z to a certain extent, at least he changes things up between albums
Pop stars - Kanye, 50-cent and anybody associated with him

idPlease · 25-11-2008 02:57PM

granted 50 cent is a pop tart and a yes man to the label execs.i agree with that..

But is Kanye classified a pop star just because he is pushing the boundaries of hip-hop a bit??

Sampling has been an element of hip-hop since its invention...is that not keeping him in the realms of hip-hop and 'real' ??

testing_times · 25-11-2008 03:03PM

I dont think Kanye has pushed anything apart from his views and opinions on people.
I just think he over samples, the 'song's' are weak.
We font get to hear any real hip-hop on the radio these days just over produced pop with a face making noises on it.

I put the likes of Akon, 50, Kanye, Nelly all in the same bracket. Sure there is a market for it and that is fine, more power to them.
I just think in 10 years time when asked to list the best MC's, Kanye wont or shouldn't even be considered on that list.

idPlease · 25-11-2008 03:14PM

testing_times wrote: »

I dont think Kanye has pushed anything real hip-hop

I put the likes of Akon, 50, Kanye, Nelly all in the same bracket.

interesting...
What is real hip-hop to you then?? What does real hip-hop have that Kanye and the others doesnt possess...

I think it is a bit unfair to lump Kanye in with those other artists as he appears to be the only one with critical aclaim.

so would you classify those artists as hip-pop then? Unauthentic hip-hop? :rolleyes:

kmick · 25-11-2008 03:21PM

Kanye West himself says he is a pop star. A pretty good one but not outstanding. That one he did with/sampled Daft Punk was awful and he is getting worse - have not heard the new album mind you. The charts/kids love him though so take it as it is.

testing_times · 25-11-2008 03:25PM

Quote from another thread.
Paranoid is the best track imo.
Pinocchio Story is painfully bad.
Hate Love Lockdown.
Song with Jeezy isn't bad, song with Wayne is pretty bad.
Robocop and Heartless are ok.
Street Lights is meh, whatever is left is forgettable.

Lyrically it's poor. Production is ok. Kanye can't sing even with autotune.

It's not an album I'd recommend, oh and it's definitely not a Hip-Hop album.

Real hip-hop is story telling, Nas, IceT, Snoop to a degree,
What these guys have is the ability to tell a story be it true or false.
Kayne is simply putting a bunch of words together and playing it over a beat. I think the beat gets made then kayne is give 10 words and he makes a nursery rhyme using those words.

Critical acclaim can be bought, he is a popular guy, doesn't mean he is any good.
Look at all the movies that get critical acclaim and are supposed to be the best thing ever, when you watch it your like........ sh1t.
What happens most of the time is people are afraid to form there own opinion - because all the magazines and tv shows are saying it's great doesnt mean you have to like it.
What people forget is those radio and Tv channells and music companies are generally the same company so there not going to bad mouth anything their trying to sell.

Sorry for the rant :-)

idPlease · 25-11-2008 05:06PM

testing_times wrote: »

Real hip-hop is story telling, Nas, IceT, Snoop to a degree,
What these guys have is the ability to tell a story be it true or false.
Kayne is simply putting a bunch of words together and playing it over a beat. I think the beat gets made then kayne is give 10 words and he makes a nursery rhyme using those words.

Firstly, rant away i understand where your coming from and by doing so you do represent the "people" who make their own minds up and are not fed propaganda by the media.

But isn't Kanye telling a story of lossed love and heartache...Coldest Winter highlights this i think.

It may not be hip-hop storytelling in the traditional sense but is it not still storytelling to a degree?? And since the shift in hip-hop is now about talking about money, cars, bling and h**s does this Kanye not count as real in that climate...

your making some very interesting and educated points & definately know your hip-hop

testing_times · 25-11-2008 05:22PM

All I can say is t thank god for downloading and media stream because I would be pi$$ed if I spend 25 quid on this album.
It just doesn't hang together, I have only listened to it a couple of times but will revisit again this evening.
Granted he is trying something different which has to be commended. Is this to be different, to evolve or did he realised that you could play his last three albums back to back and wouldn't have a clue when one album stopped and another started.

I dont think I would call Coldest Winter a story, more a yarn. Once again have a look at the lyrics, pityful.
I don't want to hark on to much about lyrics, as some savage songs look dodgy when viewed on paper and removed from the beat.
Perhaps it's because I dont really like that song and dont even get me started on Robocop :-)

The trend for talking about bling, car's etc is def there, but not all MC's push that image. Kanye has in the past and will continue to.

Fair enough he is trying to change things up abit but I dont think it's going to wash.
read some independant reviews of the album and I am sure the opinion will be slightly different to that of the mainstream publications.

A good album from a 'story-telling' point of view is an album from Common's called Be - some quality tracks on that.

HalloweenJack · 25-11-2008 07:34PM

I'll give the album a few more plays before I call it good or bad.

As for his new style, to me it seems from some of his recent interviews, he's acting like he's fed up with all the hype about him being a rapper and he really does want to change his direction.

However, I think it would take anyone a lot longer than two weeks (supposedly, that's how it took him to record the album) to change so drastically. With typical Kanye ego, he's said "Oh, I can do this and people will like it." and put something together. I don't think he's put enough work into it.

Makaveli · 25-11-2008 08:26PM

Is Kanye fake for releasing this album? No, why do artists have to be pigeon holed into genres? It's not a Hip-Hop album but that doesn't mean his next album won't or can't be one. He just wanted to try something different, there's nothing wrong with that. Personally I think it's a poor album, it's not going to stop me checking out his next album though.

Talk of "real" Hip-Hop is stupid. Let's not get into it, all Hip-Hop is real Hip-Hop there is no such thing as fake Hip-Hop. There's stuff you'll like and stuff you won't, so look at it from the perspective of good and bad not real and fake.

I'm not entirely sure why testing_times quoted my post from the album thread.

OverTheTop · 25-11-2008 10:50PM

this thread is painful to read.

if ye knew anything ye would know that kanye is experimenting with his first fully r&b album and is releasing a hip hop album next year.

so stop all this sh1te about him doing some terrible ryhming and rapping, i thought all his other albums were unreal, this one is ok but the comments ye guys are leaving is what i said above, just imagine if a big hip hop or r&b star read this muck id say they would be falling over laughing

idPlease · 25-11-2008 11:32PM

@Makaveli: no such thing as 'real' hip-hop? Do you consider D4L "shake your laffy taffy" and Soulja Boy "ya trick" or "crank dat' to be 'real' hip-hop?? Cos from what i've read the jury is out on them...i'd consider that pop. bubblegum pop at that too. An unfortunately, most things in life get pigeon holed.

And OverTheTop..i do know that Kanye is supposed to release another hip-hop album in summer 09 but recent reports are suggesting that may not be the case....

testing_times · 26-11-2008 10:14AM

As I have said previously I have no problem with artist's trying new things, feck if that didn't happen we would still be listening to Vanilla Ice or worst.

The main point I am trying to get across here is that 1. This new album by Kanye, am experiment or not sucks. I gave it another listen last night and it just doesnt work for me.
2. I generally think that Kanye is totally over rated. I don't see what he is doing or has done as anything above OK. I have never sat down and listened to an album and thought Wow - that kid has still's
The only stand out tracks for me are from day one, 'Through the Wire
After that MTV got there claws into him and he became a pop star.

Only my opinion, prob wont match up with most of you guys but that's the beauty of opinions.

ghostface ste · 26-11-2008 11:06AM

Have to agree with Over The Top here. This album was always going to be a pop album as Kanye said it himself. I like a lot of Kanye's stuff but from the songs i've heard of this album i won't be getting it.

Can we move this thread to the pop forum or something

all the stars · 26-11-2008 11:10AM

idPlease wrote: »

Kanye West is a rapper no? So why on the majority of his new album is he singing??

Is he being 'real' by doing what he wants & feels (i.e. his heartbreak) or is he being 'fake' by just hopping onto the auto-tune train??

What ye think??:cool:

Why does any musician have to be in a box? only a rapper. only a singer. only hip hop.
The amazing thing about being a musician/artist is that you can create whatever you like.

Anyway - Hip Hop is gone to sh*te (the commercial rubbish on the radio & MTV all day)
Decent HipHop gets very little recignition in the mainstream.

Makaveli · 26-11-2008 07:39PM

idPlease wrote: »

@Makaveli: no such thing as 'real' hip-hop? Do you consider D4L "shake your laffy taffy" and Soulja Boy "ya trick" or "crank dat' to be 'real' hip-hop?? Cos from what i've read the jury is out on them...i'd consider that pop. bubblegum pop at that too.

I didn't say there's no such thing as real Hip-Hop, I said there's no such thing as fake Hip-Hop, it's all real. So yes it is real Hip-Hop whether it's good or not is a different question. Would you rather me say it's imaginary Hip-Hop?

The jury is out on them how? People think they're crap? Fine, again it's down to taste, good or bad, not real or imaginary.

Boom_Bap · 27-11-2008 09:44AM

Real Hip Hop is just a stupid term really, it's just like calling someone Openly gay, at the end of the day, they are still gay and it's still hip hop.

George Carlin one done a bit on this:

I’d like to mention something about language, there are a couple of terms being used a lot these days by guilty white liberals. The first is “Happens to be” ‘He happens to be black’ “I have a friend, who happens to be black” like it’s a #%!@in accident ya know. Happens to be black? Yes, he happens to be black. He has two black parents? Oh yes, yes he did. And they #%!@ed? Oh indeed they did. So where does the surprise part come in? I’d think it’d be more unusual if he just happened to be scandinavian.

The other term is openly. “He’s openly gay” that’s the only minority they use that for. You wouldn’t say someone is openly black well maybe James Brown. Or Louis Farrakhan, Louis Farrakhan is openly black. Colin Powell is not openly black, Colin Powell is openly white, he just happens to be black.

Getting back to the topic, Kanye is making the music that he wants to make, which is his right as an artist. I think we should look at this as a good thing although the end product may not appeal to all (certainly not me!) but he is evolving musically, taking a leap directionally and the best part for me is that he is not being held back by his label.

From idPlease

Kanye West is a rapper no? So why on the majority of his new album is he singing??

First and foremost Kanye was a producer, his first credits where on an excellent album by a Chicago based MC called Grav as a producer. He was signed to Rocafella as a producer. He tried his hand at rapping and it worked out really well for him. He's now trying singing, as far as i know he also has some side projects with A-Trak as a dance/techno producer, this kind of gives substance to why he released Harder Faster Stronger.

Kanye: the new chapter?

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