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Gay marriage

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Comments

  • #392
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    I don't see believing in Christianity as hiding behind anything. If you chose atheism that's fine, freedom of conscience is a right that should be upheld in every country. If you don't want to believe that any God did such a thing that is just fine, I don't see what point you have to make in outlining it in a completely unrelated thread though?


  • #393
    javaboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,094 ✭✭✭✭javaboy


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    You're making homophobic and bigoted statements

    Quote them.


  • #394
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    javaboy wrote: »
    Quote them.
    If you're asking me to quote the part where jakkass says ''i hate homos'' then you're out of luck.

    It's called reading between the lines.


  • #395
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    So, really, it doesn't matter what research is done, you just don't think it should be changed simply because ''it's always been that way''.

    So should we take the right to vote away from women? Should we force blacks to be slaves? Should we burn women we deem to be witches? Should we force women back into the kitchen? Should we start putting children with unfamiliar disabilities back into sanitariums? Should we stone those who commit adultery? Or nail someone to a cross for committing a crime?

    And yes, I do believe you're a homophobe, as you're applying your idealist way of thinking to a set demographic, when it applies to many more.

    Yes, a homophobe who encourages civil partnership legislation. I have yet to see one of those. As I say, if it makes you happy cry homophobe. There isn't much logical basis to it.

    The definition of marriage has nothing to do with slaves, burning witches, negative mentalities towards women, sanitariums, stoning people to death, or nailing someone to a cross.

    Infact Christianity has nothing to do with any of these apart from maybe the last but that's only due to the Crucifixion. The death penalty is actually against Christian moral laws. Not that it would be productive to explain Christian theology on this thread.


  • #396
    javaboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,094 ✭✭✭✭javaboy


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    If you're asking me to quote the part where jakkass says ''i hate homos'' then you're out of luck.

    It's called reading between the lines.

    No it's called jumping to conclusions and inferring things that may not be intended. It only serves to stifle debate if people can't argue their side without being accused of homophobia or bigotry.


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  • #397
    dr.bollocko
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 35,948 Mod ✭✭✭✭dr.bollocko


    Jakkass wrote: »
    I don't see believing in Christianity as hiding behind anything. If you chose atheism that's fine, freedom of conscience is a right that should be upheld in every country. If you don't want to believe that any God did such a thing that is just fine, I don't see what point you have to make in outlining it in a completely unrelated thread though?

    Because it is not unrelated my good man. Your religious beliefs proclude you from agreeing with gay marriage.
    My beliefs offer me a choice.


  • #398
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    My beliefs do a lot more than this.

    Again, if you feel atheism is for you, then okay. I'm convinced otherwise.


  • #399
    dr.bollocko
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 35,948 Mod ✭✭✭✭dr.bollocko


    Jakkass wrote: »
    My beliefs do a lot more than this.

    Again, if you feel atheism is for you, then okay. I'm convinced otherwise.
    And I respect that you do and how you have argued your points. But to argue that your religion and your argument about same sex marriage are mutually exclusive or off topic are incorrect in many ways. And perhaps the weight of dogmatic evidence has resulted in you automatically leaning towards one side of the fence.


  • #400
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Jakkass wrote: »
    Yes, a homophobe who encourages civil partnership legislation. I have yet to see one of those. As I say, if it makes you happy cry homophobe. There isn't much logical basis to it.

    The definition of marriage has nothing to do with slaves, burning witches, negative mentalities towards women, sanitariums, stoning people to death, or nailing someone to a cross.

    I was applying YOUR logic to other scenarios. By your logic marriage has always been between a man and woman, so why change it? If you can't see the relevance to my comparisons then that's your problem.

    A homophobe isn't defined by what they approve, they're defined by what they disapprove. For instance, if i hate black people, but say that they're entitled to have children which is of course a basic human right, i'm still a racist. If you deny a basic human right to a set demographic, in this case homosexuals and marriage, then that, imho, makes you a homophobe.
    Jakkass wrote: »
    Infact Christianity has nothing to do with any of these. The death penalty is actually against Christian moral laws. Not that it would be productive tp explain Christian theology on this thread.

    I haven't mentioned christianity once in this thread.


  • #401
    jill_valentine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,090 ✭✭✭jill_valentine


    I'm genuinely surprised by the Poll results. First Obama wins, now After Hours is pro-gay marriage. I've been too cynical, it seems.


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  • #402
    jaffa20
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,624 ✭✭✭jaffa20


    Jakkass wrote: »

    The definition of marriage has nothing to do with slaves, burning witches, negative mentalities towards women, sanitariums, stoning people to death, or nailing someone to a cross.

    Can you please define marriage? Why does it exist in your opinion and why should it not be extended as a right towards each individual without taking into consideration their sexuality? Would it be a problem if we called it gay matrimony? Would you prefer to have "marriage" deleted from the english vocabulary and replace it with "partnership" because, in essence, that is what it is anyway.

    Also, still waiting on an answer of how research can be carried out in Ireland with regards to gay adoption?


  • #403
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    A homophobe isn't defined by what they approve, they're defined by what they disapprove. For instance, if i hate black people, but say that they're entitled to have children which is of course a basic human right, i'm still a racist. If you deny a basic human right to a set demographic, in this case homosexuals and marriage, then that, imho, makes you a homophobe.

    This is from the dictionary from Princeton:
    a person who hates or fears homosexual people

    I don't hate or fear homosexuals. Or do you want to rewrite the definition to suit your argument?


  • #404
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Jakkass wrote: »

    This is from the dictionary from Princeton:
    a person who hates or fears homosexual people

    I don't hate or fear homosexuals. Or do you want to rewrite the definition to suit your argument?
    Not wanting to compare definitions or anything...

    homophobia |ˌhōməˈfōbēə|
    noun
    an extreme and irrational aversion to homosexuality and homosexual people.


  • #405
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    jaffa20 wrote: »
    Can you please define marriage? Why does it exist in your opinion and why should it not be extended as a right towards each individual without taking into consideration their sexuality? Would it be a problem if we called it gay matrimony? Would you prefer to have "marriage" deleted from the english vocabulary and replace it with "partnership" because, in essence, that is what it is anyway.

    Also, still waiting on an answer of how research can be carried out in Ireland with regards to gay adoption?

    No I don't think that marriage should be deleted. I'm suggesting that a marriage or a union between a man and woman, is rather different from a same sex union.

    In my own terms marriage is the union of a man and a woman.

    I think research based in Canada and elsewhere can be used. I'm opposed to gay marriage for more than that reason.


  • #406
    jaffa20
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,624 ✭✭✭jaffa20


    Jakkass wrote: »

    This is from the dictionary from Princeton:
    a person who hates or fears homosexual people

    I don't hate or fear homosexuals. Or do you want to rewrite the definition to suit your argument?

    I don't think you are a homophobe but you can't deny you fear potential effect we will have on society and the definition of "marriage". That can indirectly interpreted as a fear of homosexuals.

    Although, i think creepingdeath is more guilty than you.


  • #407
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    Not wanting to compare definitions or anything...

    homophobia |ˌhōməˈfōbēə|
    noun
    an extreme and irrational aversion to homosexuality and homosexual people.


    I don't feel an aversion (dislike) towards homosexuals. You should have grasped that from my previous definition.


  • #408
    javaboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,094 ✭✭✭✭javaboy


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    A homophobe isn't defined by what they approve, they're defined by what they disapprove.

    It's perfectly possible to disapprove of gay marriage without being a homophobe. Unless you accept that fact there is no way to have a reasonable debate on the subject.
    For instance, if i hate black people, but say that they're entitled to have children which is of course a basic human right, i'm still a racist.

    I don't think he has said he hates gay people. You're making assumptions.
    If you deny a basic human right to a set demographic, in this case homosexuals and marriage, then that, imho, makes you a homophobe.

    Is marriage a "basic human right"? Marriage is a man made construction, a union between a man and a woman, typically tied to religion. That's what it is at the moment. It may be other things in the future but that's what it is now. Believing that it should stay that way doesn't make someone a homophobe.


  • #409
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Jakkass wrote: »

    No I don't think that marriage should be deleted. I'm suggesting that a marriage or a union between a man and woman, is rather different from a same sex union.

    Again, why?


  • #410
    jaffa20
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,624 ✭✭✭jaffa20


    Jakkass wrote: »


    I think research based in Canada and elsewhere can be used. I'm opposed to gay marriage for more than that reason.

    But you said that we shouldn't't implement it just because it has been implemented elsewhere so what use would their research be.


  • #411
    unreggd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,835 ✭✭✭unreggd




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  • #412
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    javaboy wrote: »
    It's perfectly possible to disapprove of gay marriage without being a homophobe. Unless you accept that fact there is no way to have a reasonable debate on the subject.

    I'd be more than happy to hear of a scenario where denying a person the right to do something because of their sexual orientation isn't a result of homophobia.
    javaboy wrote: »
    I don't think he has said he hates gay people. You're making assumptions.

    I never said he did.
    javaboy wrote: »
    Is marriage a "basic human right"? Marriage is a man made construction, a union between a man and a woman, typically tied to religion. That's what it is at the moment. It may be other things in the future but that's what it is now. Believing that it should stay that way doesn't make someone a homophobe.

    I think marriage is a basic human right, yes.

    Believing it should stay between a man and a woman just because they're a man and a women does seem homophobic to me. Again, i'm open for correction.


  • #413
    ninebeanrows
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,780 ✭✭✭✭ninebeanrows


    Lets not go mad here. I really would not like to see gay marriage legalized in Ireland to be perfectly honest.. I think that liberalization brought a step to far.

    I am in no way anti-gay but IMHO Marriage is a union between a man and a woman.


    I suppose a legal tie between 2 men is alright but it cannot be marriage in the traditional sense.


  • #414
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    jaffa20 wrote: »
    But you said that we shouldn't't implement it just because it has been implemented elsewhere so what use would their research be.

    Indeed, I don't want our country to be a lab rat state.


  • #415
    jill_valentine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,090 ✭✭✭jill_valentine


    jill_valentine wrote: »
    A hundred bazillion euro says that at some point in this thread, somebody will say "Marriage is between a MAN and a WOMAN!" as if that settles it.

    Hey Yo!


  • #416
    ninebeanrows
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,780 ✭✭✭✭ninebeanrows


    A hundred bazillion euro says that at some point in this thread, somebody will say "Marriage is between a MAN and a WOMAN!" as if that settles it.

    It does settle it! Men and Woman were brought to earth to bond sexually. Men and Men and Women and Women were not.

    But if they desire to then of course they can and i don not judge them for doing so.

    Is what i've said really really bad? I hope it's not because that's what i honestly believe.

    That said i have no problem with gays.:)


  • #417
    younge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 138 ✭✭younge


    Marriage between gay people is wrong in my opinion. That’s my answer in a nutshell. Call me old-fashioned but its how my family and I feel. Shouldn't be allowed.


  • #418
    zach morris
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32 ✭zach morris


    You and your family are a pack of bigot assholes then.


  • #419
    jaffa20
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,624 ✭✭✭jaffa20


    younge wrote: »
    Marriage between gay people is wrong in my opinion. That’s my answer in a nutshell. Call me old-fashioned but its how my family and I feel. Shouldn't be allowed.

    And if your brother was gay or your sister was a lesbian....:confused:


  • #420
    dny123456
    Closed Accounts Posts: 431 ✭✭dny123456


    javaboy wrote: »
    I don't think he has said he hates gay people. You're making assumptions.

    Are you sure you know who you're defending. You can see Jakkass' real opinion over in the religion forum... here

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055110987&highlight=homosexual&page=3
    Jakkass wrote:
    It was God's intention for sex to be something special to be shared by man and woman and to be used as a means of reproduction. I don't think homosexuality falls into any of that.
    Jakkass wrote:
    he means that incest and other forbidden sexual acts such as beastality are listed in the same section of the Bible as the ruling on homosexuality. (Leviticus 18)

    However we've also established that homosexual activity is also a sin under God

    He's presenting a slightly less fundamental opinion here.


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  • #421
    SV
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,533 ✭✭✭SV


    zach morris wrote: »
    You and your family are a pack of bigot assholes then.

    Wow.


This discussion has been closed.
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