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Topshop Stephen's Green

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    #32
    axer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭axer


    Padraig Mor wrote: »
    I despair really. Is it really that hard to grasp such a simple concept??!!......VAT in Ireland is the same this year as last year! Their costs have not suddenly significantly increased here! The products are now costing them less to supply than last year but they still charge the same price - i.e. they have increased their profit margin at our expense.

    A P.S. for those who (yet again) can't read: the problem is not with a higher price here, but retailers taking advantage of currency fluctuations to make off like bandits!
    How do you know that it is priced for currency and not market? You just assume that because it says the price in sterling on the same label that the euro price for Ireland should be based on that.

    How do you know their costs have not increased? Have you looked at their accounts?

    Maybe its your that just doesn't get it.


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    #33
    GBA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26 ✭GBA


    Thank you Padraig Mor!


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    #34
    Corruptedmorals
    Registered Users Posts: 4,194 ✭✭✭Corruptedmorals


    It does annoy me, but I content myself with getting student discount. I'm so glad you mentioned bringing it up with head office though, and not savaging shop assistants. It gets really really annoying, being blamed for prices you've nothing to do with.


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    #35
    Blisterman
    Registered Users Posts: 7,452 ✭✭✭Blisterman


    Danno wrote: »
    Go in to local bank, buy STG£80 and hand it in to the shop... see what happens! :D

    Tried that in a few stores. Doesn't work.


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    #36
    dudara
    Registered Users Posts: 33,519 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    Here's a basic business equation

    Profit = Sales - Cost of Sales

    See the variable "Cost of Sales" - that varies from country to country. (As does the Sales variable). Therefore there is no guarantee that they are making more profit in Ireland than in the UK.

    I don't like the practise of dual pricing, but you have to realise that the sterling price IS NOT MEANT TO EQUAL the Euro price on those tags.


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    #37
    Padraig Mor
    Registered Users Posts: 9,544 ✭✭✭Padraig Mor


    axer wrote: »
    How do you know that it is priced for currency and not market?.
    I have no idea what that means.
    axer wrote: »
    You just assume that because it says the price in sterling on the same label that the euro price for Ireland should be based on that.
    dudara wrote: »
    I don't like the practise of dual pricing, but you have to realise that the sterling price IS NOT MEANT TO EQUAL the Euro price on those tags.

    Seriously guys......I've already said three times that I am not saying that the euro price should be equivalent to the sterling price. I don't think I can say it any more clearly TBH. My problem is with UK-based retailers - in the last six months or so - taking advantage of currency fluctuations to increase their profit margins in ROI by not passing on reductions in their cost base. With so many people here (on a consumer forum!) willing to jump to their defence, it's no wonder we get ridden.

    And Axer - their costs have suddenly leaped recently? Come off it will ya? Surely you don't actually believe that!


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    #38
    axer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭axer


    Padraig Mor wrote: »
    I have no idea what that means.
    It means that products take different prices in different markets according to what that market is willing to pay and is also linked to competition, supply and demand. If these prices were too high then the shops in question would loose business and they would be forced to lower their prices as a result.
    Padraig Mor wrote: »
    And Axer - their costs have suddenly leaped recently? Come off it will ya? Surely you don't actually believe that!
    I am saying there are higher costs in Ireland, a smaller market and that you do not know what costs they are facing.


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    #39
    Padraig Mor
    Registered Users Posts: 9,544 ✭✭✭Padraig Mor


    axer wrote: »
    It means that products take different prices in different markets according to what that market is willing to pay and is also linked to competition, supply and demand. If these prices were too high then the shops in question would loose business and they would be forced to lower their prices as a result..
    So basically you're saying they'll rip us off because they know we'll pony up the cash?
    I am saying there are higher costs in Ireland, a smaller market and that you do not know what costs they are facing.
    I do not disagree that there are higher costs here. Once again: I do not expect them to sell at the exact euro equivalent of the sterling price. What you are seemingly unable to grasp is the fact that their costs have decreased significantly over the last few months but they are pocketing the difference.


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    #40
    axer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭axer


    Padraig Mor wrote: »
    So basically you're saying they'll rip us off because they know we'll pony up the cash?
    I am saying that the market determines the price. Shop with your feet and if enough people think before they buy then the market will change but you cannot call rip-off just because you are not willing to pay the price nor see the value in the item since other people obviously do. Why would someone buy something if they didnt think it was value for money?
    Padraig Mor wrote: »
    I do not disagree that there are higher costs here. Once again: I do not expect them to sell at the exact euro equivalent of the sterling price. What you are seemingly unable to grasp is the fact that their costs have decreased significantly over the last few months but they are pocketing the difference.
    Show how all their costs have decreased in the last few months.


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    #41
    Padraig Mor
    Registered Users Posts: 9,544 ✭✭✭Padraig Mor


    axer wrote: »
    Show how all their costs have decreased in the last few months.

    I have already shown how their primary cost - the price they pay for an item - has dropped significantly in the last few months. If you think their other costs have suddenly increased to match this you are extremely gullible.


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    #42
    axer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭axer


    Padraig Mor wrote: »
    I have already shown how their primary cost - the price they pay for an item - has dropped significantly in the last few months. If you think their other costs have suddenly increased to match this you are extremely gullible.
    You have not shown their primary cost. You speculated on what you think is their primary costs. Where did you find out how much they pay for items?


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    #43
    Padraig Mor
    Registered Users Posts: 9,544 ✭✭✭Padraig Mor


    axer wrote: »
    You have not shown their primary cost. You speculated on what you think is their primary costs. Where did you find out how much they pay for items?

    OK you're right. The retailers have faced a sudden huge increase in costs which coincidently happens to be the same as the cost decrease due to currency fluctuation. They're not ripping us off. They're not taking any extra profit. And if they are, they're giving it to the abandoned dogs home or something. Pocketing it? No sireee......


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    #44
    dudara
    Registered Users Posts: 33,519 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    Padraig Mor wrote: »
    They're not ripping us off. They're not taking any extra profit.

    See my previous post about the relationship between sales, cost of sales and profit and try to understand how fluctuations in one or two of the variables can impact the profit.

    I would say here at the moment that Sales are down, Cost of Sales are up. I'm open to correction.

    As Axer said, the market determines the prices. Not the shops. If you don't like, don't buy.


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    #45
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    GBA wrote: »

    I don't want to bother complaining to the manager as I would prefer to take it up with their head office. However, I can't find any address to write to about the matter.

    This is a common trend now. Companies are deliberately avoiding stating their direct HQ address, number or details if they can.
    Its to shun away from all possible complaints. I'm having a problem with Waterstones at the moment too and have this contact problem as well.

    There are many out there in the same boat with other companies.
    Me, I learned my lesson. Now I avoid ANY company that is not forwards with whom to contact.


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    #46
    Padraig Mor
    Registered Users Posts: 9,544 ✭✭✭Padraig Mor


    dudara wrote: »
    See my previous post about the relationship between sales, cost of sales and profit and try to understand how fluctuations in one or two of the variables can impact the profit.

    I would say here at the moment that Sales are down, Cost of Sales are up. I'm open to correction.

    But this is my point! Cost of sales is down - significantly so! An item that used to cost them €100 wholesale now costs them €80 (rough figures).
    If you don't like, don't buy.
    I don't!


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    #47
    axer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭axer


    Padraig Mor wrote: »
    But this is my point! Cost of sales is down - significantly so! An item that used to cost them €100 wholesale now costs them €80 (rough figures).
    You are only talking about currency. You are assuming cost of sales only equals currency fluctuations. That seems to be the essence of your argument but it is wrong. Cost of sales is the total cost of selling the goods.

    Where did you get your figures that wholesale cost of clothes has reduced by 20%?


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    #48
    Padraig Mor
    Registered Users Posts: 9,544 ✭✭✭Padraig Mor


    You are assuming cost of sales only equals currency fluctuations.
    No I'm not.
    axer wrote: »
    Where did you get your figures that wholesale cost of clothes has reduced by 20%?

    Seriously man. I've said it a dozen times. These UK chains buy their stock in sterling. Sterling has dropped approx 20% against the euro. Therefore the cost to the ROI stores - in euro - of obtaining the goods wholesale has dropped approx 20%. It's not rocket science...


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    #49
    craichoe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭craichoe


    Padraig Mor wrote: »
    You're still not getting it. The problem is not with them charging more in ROI but them increasing their profit margin here by not passing on decreases in their costs here. The point (and it's really not that hard to grasp) is that Debenham's (and Topshop?) are UK companies who presumably centralise purchasing in the UK, i.e. they buy in sterling. By not passing on the rate decrease they are increasing their profit margin at the expense of the Irish consumer. Take the Debenham's example:

    Shirt / whatever, priced £30/€47.

    Sept 2007: cost to Debenham's = (say) £25 = €37.50. Sell at €47. Profit = €9.50. Profit margin = 20%.

    Sept 2008: cost to Debenham's = £25 = €31.20. Sell at €47. Profit = €15.80. Profit margin = 33.6%.

    The cost to them has remained stable in sterling which means that the equivalent euro price has decreased - but they keep the price the same and pocket the difference!

    Still don't get it, if theres a Price difference between Ireland and Germany then what is the difference between the UK and Ireland.

    Just because the exchange rate changes they should increase their price in the UK ? or decrease in Ireland ? Why should it be cheaper in Ireland compared to the rest of Europe ?

    I don't think the exchange rate is the responsibility of a business selling a product for that region, essentially they treat each territory as seperate areas.


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    #50
    axer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭axer


    Padraig Mor wrote: »
    Seriously man. I've said it a dozen times. These UK chains buy their stock in sterling. Sterling has dropped approx 20% against the euro. Therefore the cost to the ROI stores - in euro - of obtaining the goods wholesale has dropped approx 20%. It's not rocket science...
    Not necessarily. A friend of mine was in India a months back and bumped into a purchaser for topman there. Apparently they buy a fair bit of clothes from india direct.

    I don't think you understand the basic concepts of economics or even business. The products are priced to the market not to the currency. If you can grasp that concept then the world will be a better place.


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    #51
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,121 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Padraig Mor wrote: »
    No I'm not.



    Seriously man. I've said it a dozen times. These UK chains buy their stock in sterling. Sterling has dropped approx 20% against the euro. Therefore the cost to the ROI stores - in euro - of obtaining the goods wholesale has dropped approx 20%. It's not rocket science...

    So their costs are down (you believe) and you are annoyed that they didnt drop their prices?
    Would you be just as annoyed if they didnt raise their prices if their costs went up?

    Basically your problem is that you think your clothes should be cheaper because sterling is cheaper relative to the Euro and you are buying from a UK shop? For all you know the cost of yarn from Tibet has increased 50%.

    Your "argument" is ridiculous. If the shop is too expensive for you then dont shop there.


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    #52
    GBA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26 ✭GBA


    Man, people on here are condescending! Padraig Mor seems to be the only person who understands what I mean. I raised debate on Irish customers being ripped-off and didn't expect to be told to "get over it". I wish to especially thank all the moderators on here for encouraging discussion so impartially, and also for siding so spinelessly with the conglomerates. Thank you for making me feel really welcome in using your site. Also, with regards to the moderators suggesting I simply use the search function, it is not that easy to get accurate search results when you aren't completely computer savvy; the logic of the design layout of this website alone is confusing.

    Also, don't blame me for not having a business degree and not understanding how market economics works. If you believe Topshop is justified in maintaining it's prices despite currency fluctuations then they could at least inform the consumer that it's because their costs have increased - how hard is it to put up a few posters? Keeping your profit margins may be good business practice, but alienating customers is not, so shove that in your Business MA and smoke it.

    And yes, they should tag their clothes separately. Doing it in combination a few years ago is laziness, plain and simple. It belies how truly interested they are in the Irish consumer. People in Dublin are not more readily disposed to spend more unnecessarily; I wouldn't have started this thread if we were. It is not acceptable to sit and believe that all businesses are right and justified in their policies and pricing. Shame on you if you're either too apathetic or too willing to waste money.

    Most importantly, for all those suggesting I just shop for Topshop's clothes online instead, I'd rather not. I want to try them on in store, see what their actual colour and texture is, and not just hope it looks good when I get it. That's just asking for your clothes to fit badly. Besides, I'd rather not have them unnecessarily post an item if it's already here in the country.

    Now, does anyone know Topshop's head office address so I can complain to them? Thank you.


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    #53
    Padraig Mor
    Registered Users Posts: 9,544 ✭✭✭Padraig Mor


    GreeBo wrote: »
    So their costs are down (you believe) and you are annoyed that they didnt drop their prices?
    Would you be just as annoyed if they didnt raise their prices if their costs went up?
    If their costs go up they are perfectly entitled to raise their prices. Their costs have come down due to currency movements - I don't think anyone can dispute this.
    For all you know the cost of yarn from Tibet has increased 50%.
    If you believe that I have some magic beans to sell to you....

    Your "argument" is ridiculous. If the shop is too expensive for you then dont shop there.
    My "argument" has had widespread public support in recent times in connection to grocery prices, with the National Consumer Agency (I think) encouraging people to shop in NI to avoid the ROI ripoff. It's the OP has the problem with Topshop, not me. My experience is with Debenham's, where I used shop regularly. I can (easily) afford to shop there - but refuse to be ripped off. It really is incredible to see people lining up to support this blatant profit increase by retailers. I presume you'll be also disagree with any price rises if sterling strengthens? I'm going to leave it at that as there's no point going round in circles...


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    #54
    craichoe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭craichoe


    GBA wrote: »
    Man, people on here are condescending! Padraig Mor seems to be the only person who understands what I mean. I raised debate on Irish customers being ripped-off and didn't expect to be told to "get over it". I wish to especially thank all the moderators on here for encouraging discussion so impartially, and also for siding so spinelessly with the conglomerates. Thank you for making me feel really welcome in using your site. Also, with regards to the moderators suggesting I simply use the search function, it is not that easy to get accurate search results when you aren't completely computer savvy; the logic of the design layout of this website alone is confusing.

    Also, don't blame me for not having a business degree and not understanding how market economics works. If you believe Topshop is justified in maintaining it's prices despite currency fluctuations then they could at least inform the consumer that it's because their costs have increased - how hard is it to put up a few posters? Keeping your profit margins may be good business practice, but alienating customers is not, so shove that in your Business MA and smoke it.

    And yes, they should tag their clothes separately. Doing it in combination a few years ago is laziness, plain and simple. It belies how truly interested they are in the Irish consumer. People in Dublin are not more readily disposed to spend more unnecessarily; I wouldn't have started this thread if we were. It is not acceptable to sit and believe that all businesses are right and justified in their policies and pricing. Shame on you if you're either too apathetic or too willing to waste money.

    Most importantly, for all those suggesting I just shop for Topshop's clothes online instead, I'd rather not. I want to try them on in store, see what their actual colour and texture is, and not just hope it looks good when I get it. That's just asking for your clothes to fit badly. Besides, I'd rather not have them unnecessarily post an item if it's already here in the country.

    Now, does anyone know Topshop's head office address so I can complain to them? Thank you.

    Still nobody has explained to me what makes Ireland special in this regard and why the other 500 million EU Citizens haven't complained.


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    #55
    axer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭axer


    GBA wrote: »
    Man, people on here are condescending! Padraig Mor seems to be the only person who understands what I mean. I raised debate on Irish customers being ripped-off and didn't expect to be told to "get over it". I wish to especially thank all the moderators on here for encouraging discussion so impartially, and also for siding so spinelessly with the conglomerates. Thank you for making me feel really welcome in using your site. Also, with regards to the moderators suggesting I simply use the search function, it is not that easy to get accurate search results when you aren't completely computer savvy; the logic of the design layout of this website alone is confusing.
    Maybe it might be a good idea to learn. You just click on the search link and type in what you want to search for and press enter. Then it gives you results which you can click on to view. You can always ask in the helpdesk forum or use the help pages if you are still having problems searching.
    GBA wrote: »
    Also, don't blame me for not having a business degree and not understanding how market economics works. If you believe Topshop is justified in maintaining it's prices despite currency fluctuations then they could at least inform the consumer that it's because their costs have increased - how hard is it to put up a few posters? Keeping your profit margins may be good business practice, but alienating customers is not, so shove that in your Business MA and smoke it.
    Topshop are not in the education business. You think people would still understand if they started explaining economics via posters in their shops?
    GBA wrote: »
    And yes, they should tag their clothes separately. Doing it in combination a few years ago is laziness, plain and simple. It belies how truly interested they are in the Irish consumer. People in Dublin are not more readily disposed to spend more unnecessarily; I wouldn't have started this thread if we were. It is not acceptable to sit and believe that all businesses are right and justified in their policies and pricing. Shame on you if you're either too apathetic or too willing to waste money.
    Nobody is saying that they are right in their business practices. People are saying it is not as simple as costs are based on currency exchange rates. There is more to it than that.
    GBA wrote: »
    Most importantly, for all those suggesting I just shop for Topshop's clothes online instead, I'd rather not. I want to try them on in store, see what their actual colour and texture is, and not just hope it looks good when I get it. That's just asking for your clothes to fit badly. Besides, I'd rather not have them unnecessarily post an item if it's already here in the country.
    It was a great suggestion that you obviously didnt read properly. The person suggested you go into the shop and choose which items you wish to purchase by trying them on etc. When you have made you decisions then you just note which items they are and purchase them online. There will be no surprises then since you know they will fit and you know the quality of the item.
    GBA wrote: »
    Now, does anyone know Topshop's head office address so I can complain to them? Thank you.
    You can ring this number:
    Republic of Ireland customers: +44 870 606 9666 (calls charged at national rate)
    Edit: I think there is a mistake in the number above. I believe it should be 0870 606 9666 since that is a national rate number.


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    #56
    GBA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26 ✭GBA


    Dual price tags imply equivalent value, and at some point when they were produced the price did correspond. If their costs of sale have gone up, then surely they should have increased the price, not just kept with the same tags that were in use last year.

    Going to the shop to try on the clothes and then going home to buy them online from the UK is wasteful in both time and energy. And surely that would just give money direct to the UK stores, and not through Ireland. And what if the clothes are needed then and there? I'm all for shopping online if the shop isn't in Ireland (eg American Apparel), but see it as unnecessary when they have a store just down the road from me.

    All I'm trying to say is that the average consumer automatically assumes that the sterling and euro price should equate, and that whether they should or not for market reasons is misleading to the average shopper.

    P.S. Axer, thanks for the phone number.


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    #57
    axer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭axer


    GBA wrote: »
    Dual price tags imply equivalent value, and at some point when they were produced the price did correspond.
    did it? Anything to back that up?


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    #58
    craichoe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭craichoe


    GBA wrote: »
    Dual price tags imply equivalent value, and at some point when they were produced the price did correspond. If their costs of sale have gone up, then surely they should have increased the price, not just kept with the same tags that were in use last year.

    Going to the shop to try on the clothes and then going home to buy them online from the UK is wasteful in both time and energy. And surely that would just give money direct to the UK stores, and not through Ireland. And what if the clothes are needed then and there? I'm all for shopping online if the shop isn't in Ireland (eg American Apparel), but see it as unnecessary when they have a store just down the road from me.

    All I'm trying to say is that the average consumer automatically assumes that the sterling and euro price should equate, and that whether they should or not for market reasons is misleading to the average shopper.

    P.S. Axer, thanks for the phone number.

    Really .. i was in Jack and Jones in Rijswijk yesterday, pair of Jeans was marked as 80 euro IRL 95 Euro NL

    That just tells me it costs 80 euro in Ireland and 95 Euro in Holland, hence if i'm back in Ireland it might be worth my while picking up that pair of jeans, if they have it in stock.


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    #59
    GBA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26 ✭GBA


    axer wrote: »
    did it? Anything to back that up?

    Yeah, here's a link to an article in the Irish Examiner which explains my point: http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2008/03/25/story58615.asp

    And that was back in March and the value of Sterling is still falling. The article goes on to say Jack and Jones and Vera Moda are the only retailers passing on savings, whilst the rest of the large UK stores (Topshop, Debenhams, Next, etc) are doing little about it. It is very hard to shop on your feet and take custom elsewhere when everyone is behaving the same.

    Unless you want me to knit my own sweaters or fly abroad for everything I buy?


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    #60
    craichoe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭craichoe


    GBA wrote: »
    Yeah, here's a link to an article in the Irish Examiner which explains my point: http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2008/03/25/story58615.asp

    And that was back in March and the value of Sterling is still falling. The article goes on to say Jack and Jones and Vera Moda are the only retailers passing on savings, whilst the rest of the large UK stores (Topshop, Debenhams, Next, etc) are doing little about it. It is very hard to shop on your feet and take custom elsewhere when everyone is behaving the same.

    Unless you want me to knit my own sweaters or fly abroad for everything I buy?

    So why is there price variations in euro in Jack and Jones between Ireland and Holland ?


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    #61
    eth0_
    Registered Users Posts: 10,846 ✭✭✭✭eth0_


    craichoe wrote: »
    So why is there price variations in euro in Jack and Jones between Ireland and Holland ?

    It's not a big difference so it's obviously VAT.


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