eflow "Pay as you go" mess.

darsar · 01-09-2008 5:17pm

I have a northern reg car and I went into the newsagents yesterday to pay for a two passes throught the toll.

The guy asked for my reg number and I said YCZ 1234*. He tells me the payzone machine doesnt give him an option to put letters in. My receipt says my reg is 929 1234*!! So the guy obviously used the payzone transaction pad the way a mobile phone is with 9 = Y, 2 = C and Z = 9!

I said before that i wasn't going to pay for this and wait to see do I get a penalty notice but now i definitely will not be paying! They can't even take my reg.

arctictree · 01-09-2008 6:14pm

I use the M50 a few different times a day and had to collect receipts for billing to different clients depending on the job I was doing at the time.

How do I do that now?!

Del2005 · 01-09-2008 6:19pm

arctictree wrote: »

I use the M50 a few different times a day and had to collect receipts for billing to different clients depending on the job I was doing at the time.

How do I do that now?!

The NRA send out monthly invoices, you can use that.

P.C. · 01-09-2008 6:23pm

markpb wrote: »

NRA awarded the contract to a French company called BetEire Flow.

Why is it that everytime I read that, I read it as Bertie Flow

rameire · 01-09-2008 7:10pm

if you dont like it dont use the m50 toll area, go somewhere else, use a boat, use a plane.
i have a motorbike.
i could just suggest getting on with your life we only live for around 80 years.

murphaph · 01-09-2008 7:15pm

Hamndegger wrote: »

And lest you never heard before, NTR built the bridge not your taxes.

NTR built it-taxpayers' money bought it and even if they hadn't, taxpayers' money (irish and european) paid for the rest of the M50 to funnel suckers customers into it. It was a brown envelope job from day one and it still is-see Shane Ross' article about the board of directors of the NRA-ALL political appointees bar one man. They are all puppets for FF.

This country is a sham.

murphaph · 01-09-2008 7:18pm

rameire wrote: »

if you dont like it dont use the m50 toll area, go somewhere else, use a boat, use a plane.
i have a motorbike.
i could just suggest getting on with your life we only live for around 80 years.

You suggest the roll-over-and-take-it-up-the-a$$ method of living your life-it's because so many people in this country are like you that the place is the way it is.

rameire · 01-09-2008 11:31pm

murphaph wrote: »

You suggest the roll-over-and-take-it-up-the-a$$ method of living your life-it's because so many people in this country are like you that the place is the way it is.

my choice , my life, i enjoy it,
ive more important things to worry about
and come to think about it,
its not all that bad, could be worse,
yes could be better,
but its a work in progress.
you cant just click your fingers and everything is ok,

dodgyme · 02-09-2008 10:20am

rameire wrote: »

my choice , my life, i enjoy it,
ive more important things to worry about
,

I dont even know what ye were arguing about but when I see "I have more important things to worry about" even though you are posting on the topic, that is a cop out. You obviously do not have more important things to think about.

MOH · 02-09-2008 12:24pm

ga2re2t wrote: »

Jeez, they could simply start by adding a basic Javascript to the webpage so that only valid reg numbers are entered. Of course, this would need to be combined with a drop down menu to select your country so that the script can be tailored to various reg plate configurations. An intern from any univeristy or college computer science course could put a basic one together in a day or so.

This type of thing is used all the time on websites for verifying phone number entries and e-mail addresses. A quick google search brings up some examples:
http://www.smartwebby.com/DHTML/phone_no_validation.asp

The whole joke is that they've already done exactly this on the other page for registering in advance - you give your plate details and it shows the model and colour of your car for confirmation. If you enter garbage it tells you it's not a valid plate for this country. For some reason they've decided not to use it on the 'Pay as you go' page.

I.S.T. · 02-09-2008 12:52pm

MOH wrote: »

The whole joke is that they've already done exactly this on the other page for registering in advance - you give your plate details and it shows the model and colour of your car for confirmation. If you enter garbage it tells you it's not a valid plate for this country. For some reason they've decided not to use it on the 'Pay as you go' page.

I'm not saying this is the reason they have no validation, but people who passed through the toll could use the pay as you go system (if it validated the registration) to check if the cameras picked up their registration plate correctly. Imagine the cameras got one digit wrong on your reg, you put your correct reg and the system tells you you didn't pass through the toll on that particular day, hey presto you get away without paying for it. But with no validation you will never know if the cameras made a mistake or not so more than likely go ahead and pay.

MOH · 03-09-2008 11:49am

IrishSpeedTraps wrote: »

I'm not saying this is the reason they have no validation, but people who passed through the toll could use the pay as you go system (if it validated the registration) to check if the cameras picked up their registration plate correctly. Imagine the cameras got one digit wrong on your reg, you put your correct reg and the system tells you you didn't pass through the toll on that particular day, hey presto you get away without paying for it. But with no validation you will never know if the cameras made a mistake or not so more than likely go ahead and pay.

I presume it validates the registration against some central database of registrations, from the motor tax office or something. It wouldn't be validating against a list of cars it was waiting for payment from.

Can't see any logical reason for not having validation on the pay as you go page.

[tin foil hat]
Unless of course they know some people will mistype their reg, pay the original toll and think it's done with, then get hit with penalties later on because there's still an outstanding charge against their reg.
[/tin foil hat]

Yoda · 06-09-2008 10:54am

Well. I tried to sign up using Safari under Mac OS 10.5. Safari not supported. So I used Firefox. Doesn't work: when you click the button to change from Residential to Business or from Tag to Video it gets stuck trying to load some java script or another. Undaunted, I tried Firefox and Internet Explorer in XP under Parallels. Same woe. There's no way to sign up.

Muppets.

watty · 06-09-2008 8:04pm

Firefox 2.x on XP works. But once you create an account you don't seem to be able to delete it or change it (not a browser issue).

anyway, eflow is operated FOR the NRA, not by the NRA

Background information

BetEire Flow is a consortium comprising the French toll operator Sanef and the French systems designer, supplier and integrator CS.

Sanef, part of albertis, Europe’s leading infrastructure group has 40 years of experience in toll road operations, electronic toll collection and traffic management. They have 3,600 employees serving more than 700,000 customers every day worldwide. They manage toll services on 33% of all French motorways and 66% of Paris motorways.

CS is ranked number 3 in the world in intelligent transportation systems and leads in remote toll, free-flow and traffic management systems. With 3,200 employees they have major systems in over 20 countries.

In October 2006, Sanef and CS (their operation in the US, Intrans) were appointed Preferred Bidder for the Golden Ears Bridge project in Vancouver. This project is similar to M50 Free Flow and comprises the design, build, operate and maintain an electronic toll collection system for the Golden Ears Bridge. The Contract for this project was due to be signed in early February.

In addition, Sanef and CS have experience in developing free-flow toll systems in North America (Virginia and California) and in France (A86 tunnel in Paris).

This contract is a fixed services contract that includes the design, construction, and operation for eight years valued at €113 million, plus VAT.

BetEire Flow Ltd runs eflow
http://www.nra.ie/News/PressReleases/htmltext,8987,en.html
http://www.sanef.com/en/institutionnel/presse/communiques_detail.jsp?id=1007

Sanef through its subsidiary BetEire Flow has been awarded a contract by the Irish National Roads Authority for a free flow Electronic Toll system at a single toll point on the M50 around Dublin.

This contract will replace the existing toll barrier with a free flow service based on overhead gantries, allowing drivers to pass through the toll system without stopping or slowing down.

The new system will start in June 2008 with an estimated 120 000 customers per day. BetEire Flow will operate the system for an additional 7 years, providing complete services for management and collection of electronic tolls: DSRC tolling, video tolling, enforcement procedures, accountmanagement and equipment maintenance.

Sanef (80%) owns BetEire Flow with CSSI (20%). Bet’Eire Flow will subcontract the turnkey provision of the system and then subsequently operate it.

So when you type in your reg. additional details from the Registration Database are automatically given to a pair of French Companies. The IT partner does most of its business in US (CS, 20% of BetEire Flow Ltd.).

The tag is huge and ugly.

06-09-2008 8:10pm

murphaph wrote: »

You suggest the roll-over-and-take-it-up-the-a$$ method of living your life-it's because so many people in this country are like you that the place is the way it is.

you legend! Pity more arent like you, I want you by my side when the apocalypse comes! A nation of gutless ****s

michael_d · 07-09-2008 12:33am

Does anybody used eFlow tag on M1 toll plaza at Drogheda exit?
Is that works ? ?

Our man in Havana · 07-09-2008 12:44am

It works ok.

Guvnor · 08-09-2008 8:08pm

I've a number of issues with this whole thing most of which have been raised by others.

Do the cameras on the gantry read/meant to read your car reg or road tax disc?
At this stage nobody actually knows if they can process the data?
Is it possible for such a system to work smoothly and without much human input?

There is no way any foreign car incl NI need bother paying imo as I seriously doubt them chasing up a Swiss tourist for example. The whole thing is a complete mess and as someone said I think they are relying on joe public to pony up because they cannot process the data fast enough or are not even processing the data!

I have a serious issue with them not telling me how many times I went through is this because they do not know!?!?

Red Alert · 08-09-2008 10:02pm

The system in the Dundrum town centre and Dublin airport car parks reads the number plates in real time of cars as they move through the complex. The cameras on the M50 are helped out by induction loops so they've a decent enough idea of when a car is underneath them. Once the snap is taken, it's pretty simple for a bog standard computer to figure out the number.

L1011 · 08-09-2008 10:47pm

Guvnor wrote: »

I've a number of issues with this whole thing most of which have been raised by others.
Do the cameras on the gantry read/meant to read your car reg or road tax disc?

At this stage nobody actually knows if they can process the data?

Is it possible for such a system to work smoothly and without much human input?

There is no way any foreign car incl NI need bother paying imo as I seriously doubt them chasing up a Swiss tourist for example. The whole thing is a complete mess and as someone said I think they are relying on joe public to pony up because they cannot process the data fast enough or are not even processing the data!

I have a serious issue with them not telling me how many times I went through is this because they do not know!?!?

It reads your reg plate. Your tax disc is far too small to capture at speed as well as being printed in an horrific font to OCR even if they could

We know it works - people are already receiving payment demand notices for not having a tag / video registration / paying by payzone.

Its entirely possible for such a system to work properly, but this is Ireland after all - hence them not having put enough development effort in to being able to tell you how many times you went through when you call the call centre.

The London Congestion Charge works *identically* and is virtually flawless.

LegacyUser · 09-09-2008 3:07pm

I agree - the website is quite bad. To add to the misery on this thread ...

If you email their personal customer support they don't respond.

It you email their business customer support the email bounces.

businessaccount@eflow.ie on 09/09/2008 15:02
The e-mail account does not exist at the organization this message was sent to. Check the e-mail address, or contact the recipient directly to find out the correct address.
<M50TOLL.local #5.1.1 smtp;550 5.1.1 RESOLVER.ADR.RecipNotFound; not found>

soupireland · 09-09-2008 3:30pm

I agree with the taxing petrol - that way everybody pays and it relates to how much they use the roads.

BrianD · 09-09-2008 5:22pm

Anybody got a problem with being charged the wrong toll? All our vehicles (Almera vans/Primastar vans) are being charged as twin axle trucks (€3.30instead of €2.50) when going through the East Link while using eFlow tags.

Red Alert · 09-09-2008 7:24pm

That's probably just an error in the registration records - but check and make sure they're not also getting overcharged on the M50 too - they probably are.

Guvnor · 09-09-2008 8:42pm

Cheers MYOB/Red Alert,

I guess I'll keep paying so! :-)

You guys know if non ROI cars need to bother paying as in a friend who comes over now and again from France with a French car?

L1011 · 09-09-2008 8:55pm

Officially they have to pay.

Realistically, nobody knows how the NRA will be chasing stuff up. All they can do is sent nastygrams and private (no real authority) debt collectors after them. If someones over very rarely its unlikely they'll bother. If you're on every day two directions with a foreign reg car, I suspect they'll be tracking you down (and maybe snitching to the VRO!

).

JupiterKid · 09-09-2008 9:31pm

Well, I got my "tag" in the post and have activated it (by phoning the Eflow number) and have fitted it to my car. It's huge, ugly and unwieldy. Could they not have produced something a bit smaller and more discreet?

I suppose I am being assimmilited. Resistence is futile....:(:eek:

L1011 · 09-09-2008 9:32pm

They could have. Eazypass, eTrip and TollTag.ie all use far, far smaller units.

Carawaystick · 09-09-2008 11:35pm

Red Alert wrote: »

The system in the Dundrum town centre and Dublin airport car parks reads the number plates in real time of cars as they move through the complex. The cameras on the M50 are helped out by induction loops so they've a decent enough idea of when a car is underneath them. Once the snap is taken, it's pretty simple for a bog standard computer to figure out the number.

harder to drive past the barriers in those carparks at 120kmh though!

Yoda · 10-09-2008 2:36pm

watty wrote: »

Firefox 2.x on XP works.

Well, no it doesn't. I can't get past the "Update in Progress" message.

eflow "Pay as you go" mess.

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