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The Dole

  • 20-08-2008 11:30AM
    #1
    ssmith6287
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,340 ✭✭✭


    I reckon it should be lowered to make people appreciate work and money. It annoys me to see a que for the dole office. Many of whom 18/19/20 year olds. Why not try get an education, make something of yer lives. Before anyone says they cant afford college. I had to work 2 jobs to get through a Further Education course. Im now in an office job, not great money but at least im adding to society rather then taking away. I might sound insensitive but 1 of my mates (on the dole) asked me how much I got paid, I told him, he basically laughed and said yer mad working for that amount. This kind of attitude annoys me. I reckon People who decide who give out the dole should check all the pubs and bookies. If yer on the dole and yer caught here, yer dole gets reduced. Just annoys me that I bust my ar5e in work and these skives just get money in hand, forr doing nothing


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Comments

  • #2
    Économiste Monétaire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭Économiste Monétaire


    Hi,

    I think you're looking for this forum:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=99

    "ar5e" :rolleyes:


  • #3
    ssmith6287
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,340 ✭✭✭ssmith6287


    :D:Dgot in trouble for swearing on another one

    Nah I think it effects economics aswell as politics. Make the dole getters pay tax, similar to PAYE. its a joke the way they get free money. I wasnt there but itll be the 70's and 80's all over again. The people who will suffer are the ones that wanna work


  • #4
    Thomas_S_Hunterson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,151 ✭✭✭Thomas_S_Hunterson


    I'd be inclined to agree somewhat.

    In my opinion, the dole should cover the minimum to support life. Food and shelter.


  • #5
    DarkJager
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,960 ✭✭✭DarkJager


    And what about those of us being made redundant?? Do you think a dole to "cover the minimum to support life" is going to be of much use to us?


  • #6
    Économiste Monétaire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭Économiste Monétaire


    The dole is about 200 a week? So that's about 10,400 a year - how someone can live on that I don't know, even with medical cards and rent allowance. Pay tax on transfer payments? - people don't get charged tax on that low of an amount.


    The dole is meant as a net to catch those who are currently searching for work - not for waste bags to live on for the rest of their lives. The system has improved. I wouldn't cut the dole - the idea of work for your dole seems like a positive step to deal with the chronically lazy. I thought you were eventually forced to go to a FAS course?


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  • #7
    Thomas_S_Hunterson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,151 ✭✭✭Thomas_S_Hunterson


    DarkJager wrote: »
    And what about those of us being made redundant?? Do you think a dole to "cover the minimum to support life" is going to be of much use to us?

    Well the point of the dole is that you don't remain on it. You get looking for work ASAP.


  • #8
    ssmith6287
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,340 ✭✭✭ssmith6287


    my mates 22, hes been on it since he left school. complete waster. Another one is drawing the dole and working as a security guard. The thing that annoys me is, there are plenty of jobs. But alot of people have this undeserved snobbery. I told my mate why doesnt he get a job with a cleaning company. He basically told me to fook off. Now iff i had to it id have no problem. Why do people look down on these jobs.


  • #9
    Économiste Monétaire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭Économiste Monétaire


    ssmith6287 wrote: »
    my mates 22, hes been on it since he left school. complete waster. Another one is drawing the dole and working as a security guard. The thing that annoys me is, there are plenty of jobs. But alot of people have this undeserved snobbery. I told my mate why doesnt he get a job with a cleaning company. He basically told me to fook off. Now iff i had to it id have no problem. Why do people look down on these jobs.
    Report him to Social Welfare - he won't find out who did it. You'll have a laugh and he'll get fined :)


  • #10
    Thomas_S_Hunterson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,151 ✭✭✭Thomas_S_Hunterson


    ssmith6287 wrote: »
    Why do people look down on these jobs.

    I think it's down to a combination of our good education system and the immigration which we have seen in the last few years.


  • #11
    DubArk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 831 ✭✭✭DubArk


    Sean_K wrote: »
    I'd be inclined to agree somewhat.

    In my opinion, the dole should cover the minimum to support life. Food and shelter.

    Just a quick question.

    What about the people who have paid into the system all their working lives and now through no fault of their own, find them selves in that queue??

    Should the dole just cover the minimum to support life, food and shelter?

    I’m gainfully employed. I do remember the eighties when I had to emigrate to the US and the UK to find work.
    They were hard times but I can’t really see anyone surviving on the Dole/ Job seekers allowance for long.

    Hope you never end up in that queue! :)


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  • #12
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,184 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    The thing that annoys me is the cost of employing someone, there's no assistance for employers unless you hire some one with a disability which isn't always possibe....
    If your on the dole you should be forced to take a job even if it only pays an extra €75 more than the dole, the minimum wage is to high and needs to be dropped or some kind of attempt has to be made by the goverment to get perfectly healthy people back off the couch and back into employment...
    I also think there should be a reward offered for dobbing in dole cheats and disability cheats into the social welfare..


  • #13
    Thomas_S_Hunterson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,151 ✭✭✭Thomas_S_Hunterson


    DubArk wrote: »
    Just a quick question.

    What about the people who have paid into the system all their working lives and now through no fault of their own, find them selves in that queue??

    Should the dole just cover the minimum to support life, food and shelter?

    I’m gainfully employed. I do remember the eighties when I had to emigrate to the US and the UK to find work.
    They were hard times but I can’t really see anyone surviving on the Dole/ Job seekers allowance for long.

    Hope you never end up in that queue! :)
    If you're talking about state disability benefit, then as far as I know this is separate to the 'Dole' and should remain so and obviously should not be a bare minimum payment.

    The same with the contributory state pension.


  • #14
    kmick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,375 ✭✭✭kmick


    I have been on the dole. It does only cover basic expenses. 800 euro a month is not a lot to live on if you dont live at home i.e. if you are renting. If you are living at home its lots but then you are means tested and not gauranteed 800/month. And before you say then move back home - not everyone has that option if parents are deceased etc.


  • #15
    Économiste Monétaire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭Économiste Monétaire


    now through no fault of their own
    Why do you assume it is not their fault? Those who remain in an unskilled profession must accept that job security isn't anywhere near certain. Dole payments aren't your personal savings account.

    Job security isn't a right.


  • #16
    ssmith6287
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,340 ✭✭✭ssmith6287


    I reckon it should be jobs further up thatr take a reduction. If someone on 40€ an hour looses 2€ an hour they wont notice it as much as someonr on 8 or 9 euro an hour. Lower taxes, prices will lower, people will buy more, more jobs will be created, more taxes will be paid, celtic tiger the 2nd can be born.

    As for the guy who paid into the system all their life then yeah, get the rate. But every month, the dole officers should be able to see what jobs you applied for and how many interviews you attended. Just really annoying seeing people going from a dole office to the pub. I work and I can barely afford to go the pub


  • #17
    Économiste Monétaire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭Économiste Monétaire


    ssmith6287 wrote: »
    Lower taxes, prices will lower, people will buy more, more jobs will be created, more taxes will be paid, celtic tiger the 2nd can be born.
    And what makes you think there is a positive correlation between prices and taxes? You're 'celtic tiger' equation is quite funny :)


  • #18
    ssmith6287
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,340 ✭✭✭ssmith6287


    its a pretty uneducated theory. I failed 1st year economics in college :D but there has to be a reason for things being so expensive in the republic, yet it can be got for less anywhere else. I put it down to tax. I do stock takes in 2 pubs and I see the prices, theyre ridiculous, I see the profit margins, a huge amount is down to tax.

    So if tax was lowered, consumer prices would be lowered (because the supplier could afford it), people could buy more, which would mean a demand for more people to work, which would mean more people paying tax rather then drawing dole, which would surely be better for the economy


  • #19
    suckslikeafox
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 553 ✭✭✭suckslikeafox


    ssmith6287 wrote: »
    So if tax was lowered, consumer prices would be lowered (because the supplier could afford it), people could buy more, which would mean a demand for more people to work, which would mean more people paying tax rather then drawing dole, which would surely be better for the economy

    Firstly theres no guarantee that prices would be lowered just because taxes were, why wouldnt retailers just take a larger slice of profits?

    And secondly, look at the state of government finances. A meaningful tax decrease is nowhere near the agenda


  • #20
    Économiste Monétaire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭Économiste Monétaire


    its a pretty uneducated theory. I failed 1st year economics in college but there has to be a reason for things being so expensive in the republic, yet it can be got for less anywhere else. I put it down to tax. I do stock takes in 2 pubs and I see the prices, theyre ridiculous, I see the profit margins, a huge amount is down to tax.

    So if tax was lowered, consumer prices would be lowered (because the supplier could afford it), people could buy more, which would mean a demand for more people to work, which would mean more people paying tax rather then drawing dole, which would surely be better for the economy
    So you want to reduce V.A.T. on goods? Might I also suggest that Pubs would be subject to the above V.A.T rates on alcohol – you need to limit people ability to consume it (that’s more a personal opinion).

    You’re correct in your assumption about personal consumption being a large part of the economy. But you assume that prices would lower in direct line with the reduction in tax – it is in the interest of retailers to not do that, to simply keep the margins or a large part of it. You also assume that the jobs created (if that were to happen) would be taken by those who have been on the dole for quite a long time. They would be, generally, unskilled workers – do you think all the extra jobs created would be for those in that bracket? :)


  • #21
    gixerfixer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 759 ✭✭✭gixerfixer


    Sean_K wrote: »
    I'd be inclined to agree somewhat.

    In my opinion, the dole should cover the minimum to support life. Food and shelter.

    agreed.why give them water:rolleyes:


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  • #22
    ssmith6287
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,340 ✭✭✭ssmith6287


    not necessarilly, If people would grow balls and challenge prices then youd find prices would drop. If theres a tax deduction people will know, just like when theres a tax hike people know. Irish people (me included) in general are too nice, we tend to just pay it to avoid conflict. well look at these big shopping centres going up evrywhere, if people cant afford to shop in em whats the point. If taxes were lowered so that the shops could lower prices then people would spend.


  • #23
    suckslikeafox
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 553 ✭✭✭suckslikeafox


    ssmith6287 wrote: »
    not necessarilly, If people would grow balls and challenge prices then youd find prices would drop.

    Bitchin to people on checkouts will achieve nothing apart from getting a sh*tload of coins in your change where they could easily have given you a note instead.

    Some sectors are very price competitive whereas others just appear to be and even more dont care and dont pretend to. This isnt likely to change anytime soon


  • #24
    gixerfixer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 759 ✭✭✭gixerfixer


    Has anyone really even thought about trying to live on 200 euro a week? People make it sound like people on the dole are sitting in the pub all day and then going on 2-3 holidays a year:confused:...


  • #25
    Économiste Monétaire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭Économiste Monétaire


    The allowance isn't supposed to be comfortable - it is intended to cover the very basics and provide an incentive to find employment, i.e. earn more money to purchase the nicer things in life.


  • #26
    ssmith6287
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,340 ✭✭✭ssmith6287


    youd defo get by on €200 a week, shop in aldi, pay bills. no problem. People on the dole arent supposed to live in luxury. Unfortunatly most people see evryday luxeries (tv, cd's, cars etc) as necessaties. Food, water and heating, electricity are the basics. €200 is plenty


  • #27
    gcgirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,044 ✭✭✭gcgirl


    does any one actually live in the real world here ? The dole que is getting bigger and it's not the peoples fault ! What about the likes of Tony O Reilly michael Smurfit Denis o Brien and so on who have made an obscene amount of money out of us irish and have not paid a cent towards tax ! Dunnestores have pulled out of the Newtown project and being from the garden county it will affect me ! People ordinary wil have to try and pay for their houses they wil be lucky if they can put food on the table !


  • #28
    gcgirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,044 ✭✭✭gcgirl


    i think shopping at Tesco is a luxury ! Lidi all the way plus their jaffa cakes are the bis :)


  • #29
    suckslikeafox
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 553 ✭✭✭suckslikeafox


    gcgirl wrote: »
    What about the likes of Tony O Reilly michael Smurfit Denis o Brien and so on who have made an obscene amount of money out of us irish and have not paid a cent towards tax !

    So if you could pay a lot less tax by doing a little jiggery-pokery you're saying you wouldnt do it?

    These people have provided tons of jobs, nothing wrong with them using the system


  • #30
    ssmith6287
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,340 ✭✭✭ssmith6287


    during the good times when there was loads of money, who saved??


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  • #31
    DubArk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 831 ✭✭✭DubArk


    Sean_K wrote: »
    If you're talking about state disability benefit, then as far as I know this is separate to the 'Dole' and should remain so and obviously should not be a bare minimum payment.

    The same with the contributory state pension.

    No I was talking about the dole!
    I thought they changed the name to someing like "Job seekers Allowance".

    State disability benefit is completely different, as you stated. :)


This discussion has been closed.
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