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Englishman wins Irish race case

  • 12-08-2008 11:25AM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,425 ✭✭✭


    Would you consider this "racial abuse" ? and is it common ?

    I saw this happening everywhere in my office and no one took offence.


    An English pipe fitter has been awarded 20,000 euro (£15,630) in compensation after being racially abused in his Irish workplace.

    The man, who was based in Dublin, complained that colleagues had taunted him because of where he came from.

    They would say "send the Brit in" to clear the way if they had to enter potentially dangerous spaces at work.

    Negative reports about England's performance in the 2006 World Cup were also read aloud in his presence.

    He said some colleagues never spoke to him and others deliberately sang Irish songs of a political nature in his presence.

    The man, who asked to remain anonymous, told an equality tribunal that shortly after joining the firm in April 2006 the abuse reached a point where he ate lunch in his car instead of the canteen.

    Redundancy

    He claimed that two months after starting work he was made redundant instead of a less experienced Irish worker because he was British.

    The tribunal was told another worker said "the Brit should be sacked and an Irishman should not be let go" when the issue arose.

    He said his supervisor was intimidating and had joined in with the abuse.

    The company denied allegations of harassment and said the man had never complained to his site manager about abuse.

    It also said the man was laid off because he had less service than other workers on the site.

    The equality tribunal found the man was racially harassed and said some of the acts complained about were of a blatant and intimidatory nature.

    But it ruled the man was not chosen for redundancy because of his nationality.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7555589.stm

    "send the Brit in" 182 votes

    Its Racial abuse
    0% 0 votes
    Its just good craic and should not be taken as an offence
    66% 121 votes
    Havent a clue
    33% 61 votes


«1345678

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭funk-you


    I'd definitely consider it racial abuse. I was on the other side of it when i worked in London for three years.

    -Funk


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Switch it around, pretend that it was a British workplace and replace all instances of "Brit" with "Paddy" and then decide if you think it was OK.

    While gentle jibes between the Irish and British (with both giving and receiving) would be commonplace enough, that article describes downright bullying and victimisation of one person.

    I wouldn't technically consider it "racist", but afaik any kind of discrimination on the grounds of nationality is considered racism and racial abuse.

    It's the kind of mentality I'd expect on some construction sites though TBH. Guys who think they're being funny but have no idea where the line is between being funny and original and being a complete moronic bully.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,178 ✭✭✭dade


    yeah it' sabuse but sure teh irish lads where probably giving back what irish guys faced in teh UK and abroad


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,866 ✭✭✭Adam


    seamus wrote: »
    Switch it around, pretend that it was a British workplace and replace all instances of "Brit" with "Paddy" and then decide if you think it was OK.

    While gentle jibes between the Irish and British (with both giving and receiving) would be commonplace enough, that article describes downright bullying and victimisation of one person.

    I wouldn't technically consider it "racist", but afaik any kind of discrimination on the grounds of nationality is considered racism and racial abuse.

    It's the kind of mentality I'd expect on some construction sites though TBH. Guys who think they're being funny but have no idea where the line is between being funny and original and being a complete moronic bully.
    You took the words and all that, thanks to you sir.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,094 ✭✭✭✭javaboy


    Since when do the English people belong to a different race to the Irish people? It's not racist. It's discimination based on nationality, not race.

    "Irish men win compensation after being incorrectly labelled as racists in recent discrimination case."


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,473 ✭✭✭R0ot


    After a good few hundred years of abuse from England I believe we should be allowed this (mild) abuse. This sounds like gentle jibbing nothing more.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,866 ✭✭✭Adam


    R0ot wrote: »
    After a good few hundred years of abuse from England I believe we should be allowed this (mild) abuse. This sounds like gentle jibbing nothing more.
    Yep, that'll make it all go away eventually, as soon as the scale tips even in ohhhh, say 800 years? :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭radiospan


    I think in work harassment cases, it doesn't matter if the Irish lads just saw it as "a bit of craic". If the English guy was offended, and made this clear to them, then if they kept doing it anyway, then yeah that's racial abuse. (I dunno if 'racial' is the right word, but definitely abuse)

    Especially reading the rest of the article. Seems like he was fired just for being English.

    I don't think things like "ah but sure 800 years" would hold up in a tribunal. :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,146 ✭✭✭✭robinph


    javaboy wrote: »
    Since when do the English people belong to a different race to the Irish people? It's not racist. It's discimination based on nationality, not race.

    Racist is just a popular catch all term for it though, it's still abuse though and there would be plenty of people complaining here if it was the other way round.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,473 ✭✭✭R0ot


    Yep, that'll make it all go away eventually, as soon as the scale tips even in ohhhh, say 800 years? :rolleyes:

    After they give us the north, hand over Scotland and Wales and leave the land known as England and go live with the French, then we can call it even. :pac:


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    It might be bullying,which is still serious in fairness,but its not racist.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,094 ✭✭✭✭javaboy


    R0ot wrote: »
    After a good few hundred years of abuse from England I believe we should be allowed this (mild) abuse. This sounds like gentle jibbing nothing more.

    It sounds like it was on a fairly constant basis though. If it was just good natured stuff, why did he go as far as to eat his lunch in his car?

    imo they crossed the line between good natured jibing (like slagging the English football team etc.) and ongoing bullying. The hundreds of years of abuse the Irish suffered shouldn't really figure into it as I assume this guy had very little to do with it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭funk-you


    R0ot wrote: »
    After a good few hundred years of abuse from England I believe we should be allowed this (mild) abuse.

    Is this one guy responsible for those years?

    R0ot wrote: »
    This sounds like gentle jibbing nothing more.

    Anything can be 'gentle jibbing' until it happens all the time every day. Try being on the receiving end. You go to work to do a job, not get abuse of any kind.

    -Funk


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,473 ✭✭✭R0ot


    funk-you wrote: »
    Is this one guy responsible for those years?

    No the entire monarchy and government are and when they publicly apologise i'll leave the rest of the English alone.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,162 ✭✭✭BKtje


    Sounds like abuse to me. Not so much what was said but what seems like the continuing nature of it.
    yeah it' sabuse but sure teh irish lads where probably giving back what irish guys faced in teh UK and abroad
    Doesn't make it right in either case.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,144 ✭✭✭DonkeyStyle \o/


    I'm not a member of the infamous PC brigade, but these guys sound like a bunch of witless assholes tbh.
    If a workmate eating his lunch in his car isn't a clue that the "joke" has gone too far, then you need your head examined.

    Enjoy your 20 grand bud.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,094 ✭✭✭✭javaboy


    robinph wrote: »
    Racist is just a popular catch all term for it though, it's still abuse though and there would be plenty of people complaining here if it was the other way round.

    Don't get me wrong I'm not saying what happened was right. I think it sounds like he had a perfectly good case but it should be called discrimination, not racism.

    Racism is a lazy catch all term imo. I would expect an equality tribunal to at least use the correct term.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭funk-you


    R0ot wrote: »
    No the entire monarchy and government are and when they publicly apologise i'll leave the rest of the English alone.

    Quite possibly the most ridiculous thing i've heard in a while. Thanks for that.

    -Funk


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,150 ✭✭✭✭Malari


    So what constitutes racial abuse? I think it's racial. British people share a common language, culture, history and the Irish don't share all these things with them. Sure there are obvious similarities too, but what's the cut-off point for race? Colour? Religion?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 28,128 ✭✭✭✭Mossy Monk


    Nice payout.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,473 ✭✭✭R0ot


    funk-you wrote: »
    Quite possibly the most ridiculous thing i've heard in a while. Thanks for that.

    -Funk

    I'll agree that these guys took a joke too far and the guy deserves his winnings from the case, but calling it a racist act is retarded, case of bullying yes but not racism. Saying that I personally feel that England as a whole still owe the Irish an apology for the "**** that went down" :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,094 ✭✭✭✭javaboy


    R0ot wrote: »
    No the entire monarchy and government are and when they publicly apologise i'll leave the rest of the English alone.

    So individual Americans should be victimised for the actions of their government in Iraq and so on?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 193 ✭✭Claire121


    No the entire monarchy and government are and when they publicly apologise i'll leave the rest of the English alone.

    Why on earth would you be blaming random English people for something that happened in the past? People like you make me sick. If you're going to be a bigot, stand up and admit it, don't try to justify it with some pathetic excuse.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,473 ✭✭✭R0ot


    javaboy wrote: »
    So individual Americans should be victimised for the actions of their government in Iraq and so on?

    No individual Americans that voted for George Bush and his administration should though. :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    javaboy wrote: »
    Since when do the English people belong to a different race to the Irish people? It's not racist. It's discimination based on nationality, not race.
    As I pointed out, it's probably more of a catch-all term. Otherwise you'd call it nationalism....which actually means something else.
    R0ot wrote: »
    No the entire monarchy and government are and when they publicly apologise i'll leave the rest of the English alone.
    What would that accomplish? I suppose that everyone is responsible for the crimes of their ancestors. I suppose an American would be justified if he came over here and called us a bunch of thieving, drunken leprechauns and continued to do so until we apologise for emigrating to his country?
    Cop on. Countries do stuff. They **** up. They doesn't mean that the entire country is responsible for that **** up until the end of time. There is no-one alive today who ever had any part whatsoever in organising or otherwise aiding the occupation of Ireland by Britain. So therefore there is no-one left who can "apologise".
    If a workmate eating his lunch in his car isn't a clue that the "joke" has gone too far, then you need your head examined.
    +1
    It should even be apparent way before that. If someone isn't getting involved in the banter and slagging you back, then you apologise and stfu.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,866 ✭✭✭Adam


    R0ot wrote: »
    After they give us the north, hand over Scotland and Wales and leave the land known as England and go live with the French, then we can call it even. :pac:
    Actually, that would be fantastic!! :D

    But ho, there are grave matters at hand, englishmen being laid off, we must not speak of such things...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,094 ✭✭✭✭javaboy


    R0ot wrote: »
    No individual Americans that voted for George Bush and his administration should though. :pac:

    Make up your mind will you? All English people can be punished for the sins of their government (past or present) but only those Americans who actually voted for George Bush can be blamed for their government's actions? :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,905 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    I actually voted that it was just craic, but having read some of your comments about imagining it was happening an Irish person in England I've changed my mind...

    AS has been said, a bit of banter is grand but it can go too far...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,540 ✭✭✭Homer


    Lets' call a spade a spade... It's ridiculous, he never complained to his site manager while all this was going on and only after he got let go did he complain?!
    So it was not so much the alleged comments and intimidation I would say as the fact it was sour grapes because he was laid off.
    The Irish put up with dogs abuse for years in the UK and didn't go running to employment tribunals violins in hand...
    Get another job and get on with your life..


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,566 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    R0ot wrote: »
    I'll agree that these guys took a joke too far and the guy deserves his winnings from the case, but calling it a racist act is retarded, case of bullying yes but not racism. Saying that I personally feel that England as a whole still owe the Irish an apology for the "**** that went down" :pac:

    OK, can I hold you personally responsible for everything the IRA has done? it was done in your name so why not?

    Why is it only the English that owe the irish an apology, what about the Scots or the Welsh? what about the apology the Irish settlers owe the native americans for taking their lands?

    stop acting the victim and join the rest of us in the 21st century


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