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Why is Kickboxing not in the olympics

  • 11-08-2008 08:31PM
    #1
    siochain
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,548 ✭✭✭


    Hi Folks,

    Whats the criteria for getting a sport in the Olympics?
    Cheers


«1

Comments

  • #2
    keane2097
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,828 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    siochain wrote: »
    Hi Folks,

    Whats the criteria for getting a sport in the Olympics?
    Cheers

    Back when WTF style Tae Kwondo got in I was doing ITF style and I seem to remember them saying we had no hope of getting in because it was too similar orsomething. I think maybe the fact that taekwondo and karate are there already (karate is isn't it?) might hamper it...


  • #3
    Black Swan
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,767 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    The only two MA Olympic sports that I am aware of are TKD and Judo. I do not believe karate is included. Olympic TKD is WTF rules per Kukkiwon (not ITF rules). The host country has a lot to do with the entry of a new sport into the Olympics (I am led to believe). TKD began when Seoul hosted in 1988? TKD is a national sport of So Korea.

    One major difference between WTF and ITF rules is mat size, WTF being 12x12 meters, and ITF being 9x9 meters. There are obvious other differences, but I doubt that ITF rules would have a chance of being included in Olympic TKD, especially since the death of the General and the associated disorganisation and politics that impacted ITF (Is ITF still broken into 3 competing groups?).

    I would think that KB should be included in the Olympics, but if host country is an important factor, what country would influence its inclusion? Not the UK (London)... the next site.


  • #4
    Pride Fighter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,729 ✭✭✭Pride Fighter


    What guise of kickboxing would it be? Amateur full contact like the boxing or tappy de tap tap style, points or light continuous.
    There are too many styles of kickboxing and too many political organisations for it to work IMO.


  • #5
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Blue_Lagoon wrote: »
    The only two MA Olympic sports that I am aware of are TKD and Judo. I do not believe karate is included. Olympic TKD is WTF rules per Kukkiwon (not ITF rules). The host country has a lot to do with the entry of a new sport into the Olympics (I am led to believe). TKD began when Seoul hosted in 1988? TKD is a national sport of So Korea.

    One major difference between WTF and ITF rules is mat size, WTF being 12x12 meters, and ITF being 9x9 meters. There are obvious other differences, but I doubt that ITF rules would have a chance of being included in Olympic TKD, especially since the death of the General and the associated disorganisation and politics that impacted ITF (Is ITF still broken into 3 competing groups?).

    I would think that KB should be included in the Olympics, but if host country is an important factor, what country would influence its inclusion? Not the UK (London)... the next site.

    Wrestling is also in the olympics which is a martial art.

    I would like to see BJJ & MMA in the olympics at some point. If not MMA, then perhaps combat sambo.


  • #6
    challengemaster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,925 ✭✭✭✭challengemaster


    Blue_Lagoon wrote: »
    The only two MA Olympic sports that I am aware of are TKD and Judo. I do not believe karate is included. Olympic TKD is WTF rules per Kukkiwon (not ITF rules). The host country has a lot to do with the entry of a new sport into the Olympics (I am led to believe). TKD began when Seoul hosted in 1988? TKD is a national sport of So Korea.

    One major difference between WTF and ITF rules is mat size, WTF being 12x12 meters, and ITF being 9x9 meters. There are obvious other differences, but I doubt that ITF rules would have a chance of being included in Olympic TKD, especially since the death of the General and the associated disorganisation and politics that impacted ITF (Is ITF still broken into 3 competing groups?).

    I would think that KB should be included in the Olympics, but if host country is an important factor, what country would influence its inclusion? Not the UK (London)... the next site.

    Straight from the wtf.org History section:
    The WTF became an IOC-recognized sports federation in 1980, making Taekwondo an Olympic sport. Then the adoption of Taekwondo as an official event was followed by the world games in 1981, the pan-American games in 1986, and finally by the Sydney 2000 Olympics in 1994 and then Athens 2004 Olympic Games in 2000. On November 29, 2002, the 114th IOC Session also confirmed the inclusion of Taekwondo in the Beijing 2008 Olympic Games.

    As for TKD - As history goes, Taekwon-do was founded the 11th April 1955 by General Choi Hong Hi, 9th Degree Grandmaster. The ITF was founded in 1966.

    I'd definatly agree with what you're saying about the politics involved now, esp. after the death of General Choi.

    The other main difference between ITF and WTF is the concept of sine wave. ITF being with, WTF being without. Big difference in patterns / poomse also.

    As for kickboxing being in the Olympics - Personally I think there's quite a few martial arts that could be in the Olympics at this day and age, yet just aren't because from the outside, they seem similar to others.


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  • #7
    Black Swan
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,767 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Wrestling is also in the olympics which is a martial art.
    Well, if you are going to open the MA category, per se, then we will have to include many of the traditional Greek track and field sports, including discus, javelin, etc., etc., etc., as well as boxing (not T&F) and shooting.


  • #8
    Pride Fighter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,729 ✭✭✭Pride Fighter


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Wrestling is also in the olympics which is a martial art.

    I would like to see BJJ & MMA in the olympics at some point. If not MMA, then perhaps combat sambo.

    I'd call Wrestling a combat sport and not an MA but that is for another matter. Some form of MMA should be introduced. It could be amateur with headguards and chest protectors just so it could get recognition (it is still considered 'barbaric' by some). Submission wrestling should definitely be introduced, it would probably be FILA as Abu Dhabi goes against the amateur ethos still in evidence in a lot of the sports. With this in mind I am thinking 20 years down the line, an American does Greco-Roman wrestling + BJJ since the age of six. Gets gold medals in MMA, Greco-Roman and Sub wrestling. Turns pro and kicks ass. This will be the evolution of one of the greatest sports in existence IMO.


  • #9
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Blue_Lagoon wrote: »
    Well, if you are going to open the MA category, per se, then we will have to include many of the traditional Greek track and field sports, including discus, javelin, etc., etc., etc., as well as boxing (not T&F) and shooting.

    Why would we? They have nothing to do with martial arts. Wrestling is as much of a martial art than any other MA. It doesn't have to be an eastern form of combat in order for it to be a martial art.

    Wrestling is a martial art. There is no difference between it and Judo, other than judo focusing on a gi.


  • #10
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,078 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Blue_Lagoon wrote: »
    Well, if you are going to open the MA category, per se, then we will have to include many of the traditional Greek track and field sports, including discus, javelin, etc., etc., etc., as well as boxing (not T&F) and shooting.

    Only if people were throwing javelins at each other, which would make for an interesting sport.


  • #11
    RedRaven
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 966 ✭✭✭RedRaven


    Muay Thai is on the way to the Olympics!!;)


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  • #12
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Is it RedRaven?


  • #13
    cowzerp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,549 ✭✭✭✭cowzerp


    Boxing and Wrestling where part of the early day olympics, thats why there gauranteed entry, pankraton was also so would have a better chance of been in, this would be the closest thing to mma,

    kickboxing is only a modern sport and if it was to be included then dozens of other similar sports could claim entry too! plus all the splits and organisations would make it impossibe]le also..

    Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.



  • #14
    Black Swan
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,767 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Why would we? They have nothing to do with martial arts.
    Javelin throwing was not a martial art? It was included during early Greek times in the Olympics because it was very much a martial art back then. Suggest you read a bit of early Greek and Roman history and what javelins were used for during war (martial art=war art).


  • #15
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Blue_Lagoon wrote: »
    Javelin throwing was not a martial art? It was included during early Greek times in the Olympics because it was very much a martial art back then. Suggest you read a bit of early Greek and Roman history and what javelins were used for during war (martial art=war art).

    I'm not saying what it "was". Present day it's not a martial art. There is no element of combat. Wrestling involves two people, competing in a grappling art. Much like judo, which is also an martial art.

    Your argument here is quite silly tbh.


  • #16
    Pride Fighter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,729 ✭✭✭Pride Fighter


    Blue_Lagoon wrote: »
    Javelin throwing was not a martial art? It was included during early Greek times in the Olympics because it was very much a martial art back then. Suggest you read a bit of early Greek and Roman history and what javelins were used for during war (martial art=war art).

    The way of the Peltast, runs off to create martial art:pac::pac::pac:


  • #17
    challengemaster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,925 ✭✭✭✭challengemaster


    dlofnep wrote: »
    I'm not saying what it "was". Present day it's not a martial art. There is no element of combat. Wrestling involves two people, competing in a grappling art. Much like judo, which is also an martial art.

    Your argument here is quite silly tbh.

    What's to stop it from being a martial art? It was used for war, at one time, it may be useless now by comparison, but I'm fairly sure nobody is using a whole lot of martial arts in war anyway these days. TKD and Judo being used during a war? Doubtful, tbh. I'd much quicker reach for a gun.

    If you're going by these days, then maybe we should get a few tanks into the birds nest and let them have loose at eachother with armour piercing shells? Or stick a few firing squads in..

    I don't really think _YOU_, some unknown person in Ireland, can dictate what is or is not criteria for being a martial art in the Olympics.

    Your arguement here is quite silly, tbh.


  • #18
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    challengemaster wrote: »
    What's to stop it from being a martial art? It was used for war, at one time, it may be useless now by comparison, but I'm fairly sure nobody is using a whole lot of martial arts in war anyway these days. TKD and Judo being used during a war? Doubtful, tbh. I'd much quicker reach for a gun.

    If you're going by these days, then maybe we should get a few tanks into the birds nest and let them have loose at eachother with armour piercing shells? Or stick a few firing squads in..

    I don't really think _YOU_, some unknown person in Ireland, can dictate what is or is not criteria for being a martial art in the Olympics.

    Your arguement here is quite silly, tbh.

    Right, throwing a stick is a martial art. Javellin is already in the olympics as a track & field sport. They have already decided that it isn't a martial art.

    Wrestling is far more of a martial art that Javellin throwing is. The object of which is to throw a stick the furthest, and not hit somebody with it.

    Get real.


  • #19
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,608 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    Pride Fighter wrote: »
    There are too many styles of kickboxing and too many political organisations for it to work IMO.

    I think that about hits the nail on the head in regards to the OP's question.


  • #20
    Black Swan
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,767 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    challengemaster wrote: »
    If you're going by these days, then maybe we should get a few tanks into the birds nest and let them have loose at eachother with armour piercing shells?
    Now CM, tanks against tanks would only be MA, which is not very popular any more. What about expanding it to MMA? Can't we combine our tanks with howitzers, stealth bombers, and a few cruise missiles? Now that's real, contemporary MMA! And instead of just tossing our rounds and bombs into an empty field, like they do with those ancient Greek and Roman war javelins during today's Olympics, we could have full contact! Then whomever was standing after the match could not complain about biased judging or poor ref'ing.

    OP: Once again, KB should be included in the Olympics, but I doubt that it will be until some compelling interest gets the attention of the World Olympic Committee.


  • #21
    challengemaster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,925 ✭✭✭✭challengemaster


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Right, throwing a stick is a martial art. Javellin is already in the olympics as a track & field sport. They have already decided that it isn't a martial art.

    Wrestling is far more of a martial art that Javellin throwing is. The object of which is to throw a stick the furthest, and not hit somebody with it.

    Get real.

    Well I'm sure you can see why the object for competitive javlin is length of throw, and not throwing it at people. If you can't, I suggest seeing a doctor or something. You really think that throwing a javlin at someone would be in the olympics? If you're serious, then the fatality count each games would be stupidly high.

    Wrestling, as far as I know, you're not using anything which can penetrate the skin and kill instantly.

    I'm fairly sure a bit of logic might go down well here. If you can't see this...:rolleyes:

    Get real? Get real yourself mr. lets kill humans with sharp objects for sport and competition.

    And nothing is more real than history.


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  • #22
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    challengemaster wrote: »
    Well I'm sure you can see why the object for competitive javlin is length of throw, and not throwing it at people. If you can't, I suggest seeing a doctor or something. You really think that throwing a javlin at someone would be in the olympics? If you're serious, then the fatality count each games would be stupidly high.

    They do not train it to throw it at people. The object is to throw it the furthest. It is not a martial art, and it is not trained with intentions of being a martial art. Quite simple logic here.
    challengemaster wrote: »
    Wrestling, as far as I know, you're not using anything which can penetrate the skin and kill instantly.

    So you need to be able to penetrate skin and kill instantly for it to be a martial art? I see. I guess that puts karate, tkd, judo, kick-boxing, kung fu and all the rest out of the picture to then, right?
    challengemaster wrote: »
    I'm fairly sure a bit of logic might go down well here. If you can't see this...:rolleyes:

    I'm sure it would. Let me know when you say something logical.
    challengemaster wrote: »
    Get real? Get real yourself mr. lets kill humans with sharp objects for sport and competition.

    When did I say kill humans with sharp objects for sport and competition? I stated that javellin's objective is to throw it as far as possible. Not to kill someone. So hence, it's not a martial art. It's a track & field sport.
    challengemaster wrote: »
    And nothing is more real than history.

    Ohhh!! The good old, "has to be really old and historical to be a martial art" debate.


  • #23
    challengemaster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,925 ✭✭✭✭challengemaster


    Right, I'm giving up on trying to explain to you. You're obviously too stupid after taking a few too many hits to the head.

    Can you even quote any more out of context, or have you just decided you're right from the start and any arguement over this fact, you'll completly go out of context and miss every point.


    Oh, and the logic is that you dont ****ing throw it at people any more because its dangerous, you ****ing halfwit.


  • #24
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    AKA - You have nothing to say.

    Enjoy your ban.


  • #25
    challengemaster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,925 ✭✭✭✭challengemaster


    AKA. I'm not going to waste my time debating with the likes of you, who ignore simple logic and are stuck so far up their own hole.

    I'll will actually enjoy my ban, because it means not having to read the pure bull****e that comes out of this forum and its users.


  • #26
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Ignore the simple logic of throwing a stick being a martial art opposed to a track & field sport?

    Cya now.


  • #27
    Roper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,448 ✭✭✭Roper


    Are you people arguing about javelin being a martial art or not?

    I love the internet.


  • #28
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    That's what it's come to Roper.


  • #29
    Burnt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 492 ✭✭Burnt


    Old school Javelin. WAARRR!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNW4e9NevuQ

    A javelin throw from Finland's Tero Pitkamaki embedded itself in the side of French long jumper Salim Sdiri as he waited to compete during an IAAF Golden League meeting in Rome 2007


  • #30
    Colm_OReilly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,577 ✭✭✭Colm_OReilly


    The two of you, shut the hell up! Consider this a warning. I don't want to see you on this thread after this.

    OP, sorry for the bollox that this thread descended into.

    To be an Olympic sport, and I'm going from memory here, it has to be widley practiced on 4 continents (3 for female sports I believe). There's other criteria there as well, and it would depend on whether the world governing body (of which there's probably none coherant enough) needs to petition the IOC and then it would also depend on the flavour/direction of the IOC at the time.

    Clive could probably explain more if he's around.


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  • #31
    geronimo1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 45 ✭geronimo1


    Colm_OReilly wrote: »
    The two of you, shut the hell up! Consider this a warning. I don't want to see you on this thread after this.

    OP, sorry for the bollox that this thread descended into.

    To be an Olympic sport, and I'm going from memory here, it has to be widley practiced on 4 continents (3 for female sports I believe). There's other criteria there as well, and it would depend on whether the world governing body (of which there's probably none coherant enough) needs to petition the IOC and then it would also depend on the flavour/direction of the IOC at the time.

    Clive could probably explain more if he's around.
    yahoo how do some things become so petty put them in there place colm.and without doubt bjj would and should make a great olympic sport.the years of learning the art to achieve olympic recognition i think would be excellent


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