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When Good Brets Go Bad

  • 29-06-2008 02:03PM
    #1
    Fozzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,594 ✭✭✭


    Although I didn't really want to post this seeing as VR will probably have a great time with it, I suppose it will get posted at some stage :pac:

    From f4wonline.com:
    Strange incident at Waterloo Hall of Fame dinner

    A bizarre incident took place earlier tonight at the Hall of Fame dinner in Waterloo, IA.

    Bret Hart was giving a speech, accepting the Hall of Fame honor for father Stu. During the speech, Hart noted Greg Oliver of SlamWrestling, who was there to be given the Jim Melby Memorial Award for wrestling journalism along with writing partner Steve Johnson. Hart went off on Oliver in his speech, and started talking about the sacrifices the wrestlers have made and loved ones lost in the business and said that one of us doesn't deserve to be here and said either he goes or I go. Several of the older wrestlers in attendance gave Hart a standing ovation. Oliver didn't leave, although the report we got was that Johnson did leave to try and diffuse a bad situation.

    Hart eventually left when Oliver didn't, and many of the wrestlers left with him and it created an ugly vibe. Hart hasn't liked Oliver dating back to Oliver's book, "Pro Wrestling Hall of Fame: The Canadians," which listed him No. 14 in the list of greatest Canadian wrestlers ever. The book did acknowledge him as the best known of all the Canadian wrestlers but said "Hart can hardly claim to be the best ever."

    The situation was videotaped and I presume the tape will get around over the next few days. We hope to have more details forthcoming.

    The book was published a few months after Bret suffered his stroke, so I don't know if that had something to do with why it got to him so much

    But seriously, Bret's higher than 14th in the greatest wrestlers ever, never mind Canadian wrestlers!


«13

Comments

  • #2
    rovert
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    Bret wasnt really a draw in comparsion to some of the others on the list. I dont mind him being unhappy with it but how he dealt with it makes him come off really bad. To the extent that when someone writes a similar in 100 years time ranking Canadians, his stock will fall even lower as he will be remembered even more as someone who takes himself WAY too seriously (in other words a joke.) Displays like this over one persons opinion will tarnish his legacy.

    Bret is becoming the person he hated Hogan for being.


  • #3
    gimmick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,296 ✭✭✭✭gimmick


    He spoke his mind. I fail to see the problem.


  • #4
    rovert
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    gimmick wrote: »
    He spoke his mind. I fail to see the problem.

    :rolleyes: Seriously?

    He didnt just speak his mind tho.


  • #5
    Fozzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,594 ✭✭✭Fozzy


    gimmick wrote: »
    He spoke his mind. I fail to see the problem.

    It was a ceremony to celebrate certain wrestlers and when Bret's father was being celebrated Bret turned it into an attack on a journalist because of a personal vendetta. I think it was disrespectful and over the top. It also affected the rest of the show in a bad way


  • #6
    ShawnRaven
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,602 ✭✭✭✭ShawnRaven


    Fozzy wrote: »
    It was a ceremony to celebrate certain wrestlers and when Bret's father was being celebrated Bret turned it into an attack on a journalist because of a personal vendetta. I think it was disrespectful and over the top. It also affected the rest of the show in a bad way

    Now you know what i mean, i think that bump on the head when he fell off his bike did a lot more than give him a stroke. It gave him the ability to hold meaningless grudges. Nice to see it's not only with Shawn though.

    I'd like to say this surprises me, but it doesn't, just fuels my hatred for the whiny maggot. :)
    Most of those Harts are nuts, ever read Diana Hart's book? I'm starting to seriously believe some of the stuff in it lately!

    VR!


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  • #7
    rovert
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    validreasoning! wrote: »
    Now you know what i mean, i think that bump on the head when he fell off his bike did a lot more than give him a stroke. It gave him the ability to hold meaningless grudges. Nice to see it's not only with Shawn though.

    Nah his disposition in general didnt change after the accident (why do you keep going back to that VR btw.)


  • #8
    ShawnRaven
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,602 ✭✭✭✭ShawnRaven


    I can't help it, it's my morbid humour.
    VR!


  • #9
    rovert
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    validreasoning! wrote: »
    I can't help it, it's my morbid humour.
    VR!

    Bret was very bitter before the accident in fairness


  • #10
    ShawnRaven
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,602 ✭✭✭✭ShawnRaven


    rovert wrote: »
    Bret was very bitter before the accident in fairness

    Oh i agree, but it got a lot worse. He also wasn't as arrogant and up himself before it. Compare his shoot interviews before the accident in 2002, and then the ones he did in 2004 (solo and with Neidhart)

    The accident did **** him up more in the head, there's no doubt about that.
    VR!


  • #11
    rovert
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    validreasoning! wrote: »
    The accident did **** him up more in the head, there's no doubt about that.
    VR!

    I cant really disprove or prove your point but I did pick up from his book and interviews promoting the book is that he become more of a depressive (which is in fact a major side affect from concussions, head injuries etc) in recent years.


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  • #12
    ShawnRaven
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,602 ✭✭✭✭ShawnRaven


    rovert wrote: »
    I cant really disprove or prove your point but I did pick up from his book and interviews promoting the book is that he become more of a depressive (which is in fact a major side affect from concussions, head injuries etc) in recent years.

    I said this in a previous thread a couple of months back, i bought Bret's book from ROH Store back last December i think, i've gotten to about page 100 and put it down and haven't been able to go back to it. I'm all on for detail, but he takes the biscuit. That said (and i'm being totally serious here), if the worst happens, and his memory goes to mush, he'll at least have it for reference.

    Get your hands on his two RF shoots he did in 2000 and 2001 respectively which basically goes into detail of his WWE career (2001 one goes into his WCW career), and he's actually very down to earth in them. Then in 2004's Behind Closed Doors shoot, he's so far up his own ass it would take a JCB to get his head out of it.

    My fiancee, (who is actually a Bret fan) even thought the same thing, she switched the 2004 shoot off after 20 minutes.
    VR!


  • #13
    rovert
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    validreasoning! wrote: »
    I said this in a previous thread a couple of months back, i bought Bret's book from ROH Store back last December i think, i've gotten to about page 100 and put it down and haven't been able to go back to it. I'm all on for detail, but he takes the biscuit. That said (and i'm being totally serious here), if the worst happens, and his memory goes to mush, he'll at least have it for reference.!

    Skip to when he breaks into WWF then, your complaint is not an uncommon one.
    validreasoning! wrote: »
    Get your hands on his two RF shoots he did in 2000 and 2001 respectively which basically goes into detail of his WWE career (2001 one goes into his WCW career), and he's actually very down to earth in them. Then in 2004's Behind Closed Doors shoot, he's so far up his own ass it would take a JCB to get his head out of it.

    My fiancee, (who is actually a Bret fan) even thought the same thing, she switched the 2004 shoot after 20 minutes.
    VR!

    Yeah I agree, he did have a sense of humour, proportion and perspective about his career and real life events then.


  • #14
    ShawnRaven
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,602 ✭✭✭✭ShawnRaven


    rovert wrote: »
    Skip to when he breaks into WWF then, your complaint is not an uncommon one.

    Yeah, but that's the problem! Time is the other one. I took a four month or so hiatus from this forum back in November and bought a rake of books, all of which i read other than that one. Not that anyone would complain if i f*cked off for a week or two ;). But i would like to read it in it's entirety. Maybe a couple of weeks off could work ;)
    Yeah I agree, he did have a sense of humour, proportion and perspective about his career and real life events then.

    Nice to see i'm not the only one who has noticed the difference since then.

    For everyone else:
    Here's my deal with Bret, i didn't always hate him. In the 80s, the Harts were unarguably one of the best tag teams the WWE had, they had some awesome matches with the Bulldogs, The Stallions, The Killer Bees and Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard. If they were on the TV, you were guaranteed entertainment for 10-15 minutes. Even their promos with Jimmy Hart as heels were great. I can't say i was a fan of much of their face work, other than Arn and Tully for obvious reasons, but they had 2-4 matches with The Rockers between 1989 and 1990, all of which were awesome.

    Even when Bret went single, I enjoyed his stuff until about 1994, then it just felt like he'd become Hulk Hogan for the 90s. Same thing that Cena is now, catered for the kiddies (granted Bret was a much better worker, obviously). For me, the guy was overexposed. That said, he was about one of four people that could make Davey Smith look good. I also think he made a dumb move by going on hiatus for six months in 1996, and then wondering "where his spot went" when he came back. Welcome to the real world Bret, the WWE never did, and never will completely revolve around you.

    I'm not even touching Shawn & Montreal on this, we all know which side of the fence i'm on there. :)

    VR!


  • #15
    Charlie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,825 ✭✭✭Charlie


    Bret Hart acting selfishly and like a jerk :eek: Who'd a thunk it?


  • #16
    Mr.Nice Guy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,643 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    No one knows for sure the real reason Bret dislikes Oliver is because of the book alone. It could be something else and I'm sure Bret had his reasons for making such a stand.

    As for being listed 14th in the greatest Canadian list, that's like Roy Keane being listed 14th in the greatest Irish soccer players list. Laughable.


  • #17
    rovert
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »
    No one knows for sure the real reason Bret dislikes Oliver is because of the book alone.

    It is the only reason, as this is not the first time this issue has popped.
    Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »
    As for being listed 14th in the greatest Canadian list, that's like Roy Keane being listed 14th in the greatest Irish soccer players list. Laughable.

    Have you read the book?


  • #18
    Mr.Nice Guy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,643 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    rovert wrote: »
    It is the only reason, as this is not the first time this issue has popped.

    How do you know it's the only reason?
    rovert wrote:
    Have you read the book?

    No and I do not intend to!


  • #19
    rovert
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »
    How do you know it's the only reason?

    Interviews from both sides. Bret has never voiced his disapproval directly to Greg. You'll here very few negiative comments about Greg. Greg didnt even mention the incident in his own recap of the event: http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Wrestling/2008/06/28/6015581.html showing the class Bret lacks.
    Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »
    No and I do not intend to!

    Hardly an impartial response, the authors explained the ranking system in the book, you cant really comment on the ranking if you havent read that.


  • #20
    Mr.Nice Guy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,643 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    rovert wrote: »
    Interviews from both sides. Bret has never voiced his disapproval directly to Greg. You'll here very few negiative comments about Greg. Greg didnt even mention the incident in his own recap of the event: http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Wrestling/2008/06/28/6015581.html showing the class Bret lacks.

    Oh I see through interviews. Good to know you have the inside scoop then. I wouldn't pay too much heed to what is said in interviews. I would suspect there is far more bad blood between the two men that don't make the interviews. I suspect dear Greg has too much 'class' to divulge this information.
    rovert wrote:
    Hardly an impartial response, the authors explained the ranking system in the book, you cant really comment on the ranking if you havent read that.

    I don't need to read the book to see the stupidity of such a ranking system in the same way I don't need to read a book which would list George Best as NI's 14th best soccer player to know that it is a nonsensical claim.


  • #21
    rovert
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »
    Oh I see through interviews. Good to know you have the inside scoop then. I wouldn't pay too much heed to what is said in interviews. I would suspect there is far more bad blood between the two men that don't make the interviews. I suspect dear Greg has too much 'class' to divulge this information.

    When both interviews are from both parties and given their contents yes it is the inside scoop. Love the way you speak dismissively of someone who you arent familar with. Very impartial.
    Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »
    I don't need to read the book to see the stupidity of such a ranking system in the same way I don't need to read a book which would list George Best as NI's 14th best soccer player to know that it is a nonsensical claim.

    Run down the other 13 wrestlers ahead of him for me, then if it is nonsense. You point about George Best is incredibly foolish considering you know nothing about the ranking system of the book.


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  • #22
    ShawnRaven
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,602 ✭✭✭✭ShawnRaven


    I've been waiting for this for a while now, MNG and rovert in a war of words.
    This is indeed, a match for the ages! :D

    VR!


  • #23
    kyp_durron
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭kyp_durron


    emot-munch.gif

    This is gonna be great.


  • #24
    rovert
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    kyp_durron wrote: »
    emot-munch.gif

    This is gonna be great.

    From page 5674 article 3c subsection C of the internet rulebook youve already negated the possibility of this being great by pointing it out before hand.


  • #25
    ShawnRaven
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,602 ✭✭✭✭ShawnRaven


    rovert wrote: »
    From page 5674 article 3c subsection C of the internet rulebook youve already negated the possibility of this being great by pointing it out before hand.

    You've obviously never been in a debate with MNG before! ;)
    VR!


  • #26
    kyp_durron
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭kyp_durron


    rovert wrote: »
    From page 5674 article 3c subsection C of the internet rulebook youve already negated the possibility of this being great by pointing it out before hand.

    I destroy every thread I post in. I am also possibly the worlds worst poster :(

    On topic: I like Bret, he is very intelligent man.


  • #27
    rovert
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    validreasoning! wrote: »
    You've obviously never been in a debate with MNG before! ;)
    VR!

    He knows **** all about the book or its author, so whats the point?


  • #28
    ShawnRaven
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,602 ✭✭✭✭ShawnRaven


    rovert wrote: »
    He knows **** all about the book or its author, so whats the point?

    Trust me dude, he'll find one... somewhere! :D
    VR!


  • #29
    rovert
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    kyp_durron wrote: »
    On topic: I like Bret, he is very intelligent man.

    Hardly strictly on topic and no one said he wasnt.


  • #30
    kyp_durron
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭kyp_durron


    rovert wrote: »
    Hardly strictly on topic and no one said he wasnt.

    It's slighty on topic. I just want you to know thats what I think. I like Bret, he is good.


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  • #31
    rovert
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,089 ✭✭✭✭rovert


    kyp_durron wrote: »
    I just want you to know thats what I think. I like Bret, he is good.

    We've been waiting for that


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