Redbrick?

markpb · 12-06-2008 11:34am

andrew163 wrote: »

That's been debated at length between members and everyone else... a separate web board would split things worse then ever (smelly old people versus smelly new people). There is an attempt to build a proper web interface to them in progress though (if google can do it we can too).. it's just stalled a bit due to the whole hack thing.

I'm smelly old people! I joined rb in 1999 and I'm still a member now, three years after I left college. I can even use slrn! When rb is considering where it should be going, what it should be offering it's members, I should be somewhere near the bottom of the list. The only reason it's not like that is because a huge, huge percentage of redbrick's current and active members are it's allumni and for years, no-one has wanted to piss them off.

The attempt to build a web front end has been going on for at least six years and one of the reasons it took so long is because everyone wanted to write one that integrated with slrn so the oldies didn't get separated. Screw us, download vbulletin and tell us if we want to post on the rb boards, we can move to the web like the rest of the world did a decade ago. We're old enough and ugly enough not to get too annoyed

TomCo · 12-06-2008 5:06pm

markpb wrote: »

I'm smelly old people! I joined rb in 1999 and I'm still a member now, three years after I left college. I can even use slrn! When rb is considering where it should be going, what it should be offering it's members, I should be somewhere near the bottom of the list. The only reason it's not like that is because a huge, huge percentage of redbrick's current and active members are it's allumni and for years, no-one has wanted to piss them off.

The attempt to build a web front end has been going on for at least six years and one of the reasons it took so long is because everyone wanted to write one that integrated with slrn so the oldies didn't get separated. Screw us, download vbulletin and tell us if we want to post on the rb boards, we can move to the web like the rest of the world did a decade ago. We're old enough and ugly enough not to get too annoyed

Exactly, the old people don't really care about talking to new people.

The new people don't really care about talking to the old people, unless they're looking for help or advice.

Make a clean break with a web based board the new guys are going to KNOW HOW TO USE and we see what happens. Everyone can still talk to one another if they want, the new guys will have to figure out the "interface" and the old guys will have to endure the ardues of the internet and graphics.

BlackWizard · 12-06-2008 5:29pm

TomCo wrote: »

Make a clean break with a web based board the new guys are going to KNOW HOW TO USE and we see what happens. Everyone can still talk to one another if they want, the new guys will have to figure out the "interface" and the old guys will have to endure the ardues of the internet and graphics.

I agree. I've been in redbrick for years. Would love to see a web interface

CuLT · 12-06-2008 5:38pm

Never used slrn while I was a member (still associate), would have loved a decent web board.

And since I have joined and departed DCU always hearing about a web interface to slrn being in the works, I think it's time, as markpb says, to make a clean break.

You can work on importing old slrn stuff into vb retroactively if you want to, or make it available as a seperate static archive. Might be a bit of work, but it'd be a hell of a lot less than trying to build a forum system on top of slrn.

Redbrick is the ultimate legacy system with grouchy old users set in their ways. It's a mammoth task to reinvent, but it's either evolve or go extinct by the looks of the numbers.

... That's if some enterprising new students don't decide a new networking soc would be better than trying to change the old one. To be honest, thinking about it, I don't know why there haven't been moves towards that already. There's room for both, although if RB could accommodate both it would be best.

15-06-2008 10:04pm

When I wrote this year's helpdesk exam, I was advised to leave it completely devoid of any questions relating to slrn. If helpdesk don't know anything about slrn and a lot of members can't use it, what's the point in keeping it?

I like using command lines for most things so I don't think that should be done away with altogether, but slrn should replaced by a web forum in my opinion. RedBrick does need to evolve rather quickly or the society will just fade away into oblivion as is already happening.

public_enemy · 17-06-2008 12:27am

Jesjes wrote: »

We need to take this out of a here and now mentality and realise that the whole of the future of Redbrick is in jeopardy. Personally, I am for getting someone (Ideally past members associates with experience) but realistically can help re-guide Redbrick to maybe even a shadow of its former glory... SPC are likely the people to do this come September.

Jesjes wrote: »

our current admins, who were so quick to give Robby have done far worse than what he did.

Heh, looks like someone wasn't paying attention to the SPC elections this year

Cy_Revenant · 17-06-2008 11:38pm

Jesjes wrote: »

I wonder what the formal procedure is to demand that the whole committee has to be re-elected...? This is not me having a go at cmte, but based on the events it might be heathier for Redbrick members to see this happening and to create a sense of a fresh start.

Coup d'état

The members of a society can hold a meeting and decide things without committee being present. Quoram is kind of high though, I forget exactly what it is.

Or even with committee present, there should be some kind of vote of no confidence that can be made. Some informed, well-read person may be able to provide details.

andrew163 · 18-06-2008 12:06am

Not quite.

http://www.redbrick.dcu.ie/about/constitution/

5% of the ordinary membership (in other words, not associate members) need to request an EGM for one to be held. Quorom at that meeting still requires a majority of the committee (as well as the square-root of the number of ordinary members, rounded up), though.

Suaimhneach · 18-06-2008 2:19pm

The only problem with my suggestion is that there is no one there to do the job, is there? If SPC are gone down the swanny, which is apparently the indication, and the assosiates cant vote/run, then who is there to guide Redbrick?

That is the real problem we all face, not wasting time blaming.

markpb · 18-06-2008 5:12pm

public_enemy wrote: »

Heh, looks like someone wasn't paying attention to the SPC elections this year

Jesjes wrote: »

If SPC are gone down the swanny, which is apparently the indication

What's this about?

Deleted User wrote: »

I think I get what you are saying and I agree, associates should probably be cut down to past admins or past committee members.

Eh... I wouldn't go that far, it's free money for Redbrick

I don't think we should be cut down, just that we shouldn't be considered when it comes to running the society. If we like what you guys do, cool for us. If we don't, we'll try not to cry into our before-work latte.

Suaimhneach · 18-06-2008 6:47pm

I wasnt around to see SPC this year, so I dont know what the indication is.

I am technically still a member, haha, but I wont be around if there is an EGM etc next academic year.

All hope is not lost, there are still decent capable enthusiastic (though for how long...) members of Redbrick and current cmte members, to pull us through this.

I cant help but notice that this thread has 5,710 views, and that there were a lot of noisey people making complaints, accusations and blaming people, who are now quiet, since the thread has turned to how to deal with this issue. A matter to note, for all people who are responsible and all those who are complaining, that at the end of the day with all the drama and the hassle and the endless complaining, the fact of the matter is the responsibility is in the hands of the current cmte and they're the ones who make a decision when the membership dont do anything, which, based on the turn of this thread, they wont.

Alanthroneus · 18-06-2008 8:22pm

Jesjes wrote: »

The only problem with my suggestion is that there is no one there to do the job, is there? If SPC are gone down the swanny, which is apparently the indication, and the assosiates cant vote/run, then who is there to guide Redbrick?

That is the real problem we all face, not wasting time blaming.

Exactly how have the SPC gone down the swanny? And what indication are these that suggest such a thing?

Suaimhneach · 18-06-2008 9:46pm

Alanthroneus wrote: »

Exactly how have the SPC gone down the swanny? And what indication are these that suggest such a thing?

public_enemy wrote: »

Heh, looks like someone wasn't paying attention to the SPC elections this year

It was based on this comment alone, as I specified in other posts, I have not been around to know any different.

decob · 18-06-2008 10:15pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I think I get what you are saying and I agree, associates should probably be cut down to past admins or past committee members.

To be honest i don't think you get what she is saying at all, you've taken something she said and turned it inside out. It's the sort of thing you'd expect from a journo student or written in the college spiew or in the jacks opposite cg12.... to recap, what jes said was

jesjes wrote:

Also, that I think Redbrick needs to get an outside hand in to help guide the society, because obviously the current committee and most definitely the current admins are unable to do their jobs. SPC rep or something. Because otherwise, Redbrick is doomed.

Which in simple terms means, the committee need 3rd party to come in and settle the ship, offer guidence to them on what the best way forward is. But who to do it, she didn't know. As an associate we really have no say, all we can do is offer an opinion, offer advice, make suggestions - but it's up to the committee and/or ordinary members to do it. When it comes to the likes of the election we don't have a vote.

Deleted User wrote: »

I know it is possibly a controversial view to hold but I feel that associates are taking too much of a part in the society unlike any other society around DCU. As you also say, the SPC as an official body shouldn't be brought into it either.

eh no. as mark points out, that'd be crazy, we offer free money to the society in that we pay more in membership given that we earn money. Putting the money aspect aside we offer far more to the society, knowledge, experience, networking etc.. You just have to read some of the computing boards to see what information can be gleamed from the likes of phil, colmmac, singer, bobb, valen to name but a few. As for networking... quite a few brikkies got a job from a posting on the boards... christ i got my first job from a post on rb. You've got associated in companies from PWC to google, heanet to rte.. and from time to time these people do post to the boards about upcoming jobs etc. I'm also pretty sure a number of machines over the years have come as donations from associates/ companies where associates were working.

I'm sure a year or two i got an emai from someone in the SPC who was toying with the idea of getting grads back involved with societeis to offer guidance & training to societies. DCU also make a big deal of their alumni assocaitions - and in fact they were ringing the people up this week tapping people up or a donation to the access programme, plus they benefit from the likes of the DCU affinity credit card.

As for the SPC shouldn't be involved? Why shouldn't they? after all it is from the spc that rb get the majority of it's funding. They are also there offer guidance, support and help to societies. In fact i think the SPC should bring the rb committee on some sort of an Interpersonal skills course given some of information that has arisen here and on the rb boards.

Deleted User wrote: »

It's a harsh view that I know will probably get shot down or deleted but I believe there is reason behind it and so would you if you had a look back at the previous year...

what reason?

public_enemy · 18-06-2008 10:19pm

Jesjes wrote: »

It was based on this comment alone, as I specified in other posts, I have not been around to know any different.

I was commenting on how you were unhappy with the admins, so you suggested that the SPC take over running the society.

I found this amusing, because all three Redbrick admins are currently members of the SPC

decob · 18-06-2008 10:28pm

public_enemy wrote: »

I was commenting on how you were unhappy with the admins, so you suggested that the SPC take over running the society.

I found this amusing, because all three Redbrick admins are currently members of the SPC

i hope lil_cain also offered his resignation to the spc given his recent actions.

Suaimhneach · 18-06-2008 11:14pm

public_enemy wrote: »

Heh, looks like someone wasn't paying attention to the SPC elections this year

decob wrote: »

To be honest i don't think you get what she is saying at all, you've taken something she said and turned it inside out. It's the sort of thing you'd expect from a journo student or written in the college spiew or in the jacks opposite cg12.... to recap, what jes said was

Which in simple terms means, the committee need 3rd party to come in and settle the ship, offer guidence to them on what the best way forward is. But who to do it, she didn't know. As an associate we really have no say, all we can do is offer an opinion, offer advice, make suggestions - but it's up to the committee and/or ordinary members to do it. When it comes to the likes of the election we don't have a vote.

eh no. as mark points out, that'd be crazy, we offer free money to the society in that we pay more in membership given that we earn money. Putting the money aspect aside we offer far more to the society, knowledge, experience, networking etc.. You just have to read some of the computing boards to see what information can be gleamed from the likes of phil, colmmac, singer, bobb, valen to name but a few. As for networking... quite a few brikkies got a job from a posting on the boards... christ i got my first job from a post on rb. You've got associated in companies from PWC to google, heanet to rte.. and from time to time these people do post to the boards about upcoming jobs etc. I'm also pretty sure a number of machines over the years have come as donations from associates/ companies where associates were working.

I'm sure a year or two i got an emai from someone in the SPC who was toying with the idea of getting grads back involved with societeis to offer guidance & training to societies. DCU also make a big deal of their alumni assocaitions - and in fact they were ringing the people up this week tapping people up or a donation to the access programme, plus they benefit from the likes of the DCU affinity credit card.

As for the SPC shouldn't be involved? Why shouldn't they? after all it is from the spc that rb get the majority of it's funding. They are also there offer guidance, support and help to societies. In fact i think the SPC should bring the rb committee on some sort of an Interpersonal skills course given some of information that has arisen here and on the rb boards.

what reason?

I am still a member til I graduate, in October. My suggestion was SPC, but that apparently isnt viable. You're saying something I've ready said so I wont, eh argue with you?

c0rk3r · 18-06-2008 11:48pm

I love these e-Drama's

Shame how a few loose cannons can destroy years of effort.

DemocAnarchis · 19-06-2008 12:25am

Couple of thoughts

I think the present committee should be more than capable of running redbrick. The unfortunate thing was that this happened around exam time, when committees generally disappear. I think the lack of communication definately wasnt helped by the absence of an active chair, but im sure that the other members of the committee dont lack initative.

As for the topic of associate members/alumni, this was an issue that STOCS had to deal with quite a bit. Alumni generally have a wealth of experience that the newer members lack, and as long as there is integration between the two groups I dont see a problem. However, redbrick isnt a normal society in so far as its members and alumni generally dont meet in person. From what I have seen, while occasional benefactors, there isnt a great deal of integration. I see no need to cut off associates, but I definately wouldnt be shaping redbrick's future around their needs. Do what the members want, and if the alumni can fit in there, so be it.

As for redbrick's chat client etc showing its age etc, there seems to be a reluctance to let console based irc die in peace. I dont think redbrick is doing itself any favours in relation to new members as quite frankly it can be a pain in the arse. Or im just a n00b, lawl, etc. Some form of boards/browser based chat would be preferable imo.

As for cian's behaviour, I had to re read the log and then read people's responses to see what was said that was deemed so imflammatory. Thats the way he always speaks. I thought nothing of it

The fibbers malarkey concerns me more than what was said in the chat. He was likely quite ****faced at the time also. Robby was a bit hard done by, but I dont really understand why he resigned. Call a committee meeting and discuss it instead of running away imo, the problem was only with a select few, not with the committee as a whole.

Katniss everMean · 19-06-2008 1:30am

decob quoted a post from cynical-ru, yet his post isn't there, in fact a lot of his posts have been removed. I have been fallowing this thread from the beginning and believe that all he has said has been relevant to the topic, apart from one where he asked someone to stay on topic. It would be nice if we could actually hear from a first year who despite a lot of crap giving to him has stuck with the society and become an active member.

Just my single penny.

Amz · 19-06-2008 2:08am

Angelkat7 wrote: »

decob quoted a post from cynical-ru, yet his post isn't there, in fact a lot of his posts have been removed. I have been fallowing this thread from the beginning and believe that all he has said has been relevant to the topic, apart from one where he asked someone to stay on topic.

Ooooh it's a mystery!

dregin · 19-06-2008 2:15am

Said first year is taking a very rosey view of the goings on in redbrick and seems to see himself as an authority on how the society has been run in previous years even though he/she wasn't in the college. Cynical-ru would do well to realise that these problems have manifested themselves over a couple of years and that the concerns raised by members here are felt by many more members who don't use this forum.

Katniss everMean · 19-06-2008 2:28am

dregin wrote: »

Said first year is taking a very rosey view of the goings on in redbrick and seems to see himself as an authority on how the society has been run in previous years even though he/she wasn't in the college.

This could be said for a lot of people, but not everyone is being censored. He can form an opinion on how redbrick has been run in previous years just by reading this thread and talking in lobby. I have no clue what his previous post was about, but from the quotes it doesn't seem as if he was off topic.

Sigh this comment will most likely be deleted in anyway..

Winters · 19-06-2008 2:32am

Angelkat7 wrote: »

decob quoted a post from cynical-ru, yet his post isn't there, in fact a lot of his posts have been removed. I have been fallowing this thread from the beginning and believe that all he has said has been relevant to the topic, apart from one where he asked someone to stay on topic. It would be nice if we could actually hear from a first year who despite a lot of crap giving to him has stuck with the society and become an active member.

Just my single penny.

Posts that were off-topic or abusive were removed, this would have been following either someone reporting the post or it being blatantly off-topic or abusive in some way. Was posted back a few pages. There are boards for that sorta thing, this is not one of them, there are charters to follow here.

1c [get with the times]

Katniss everMean · 19-06-2008 2:37am

America's Next Top Model wrote: »

Posts that were off-topic or abusive were removed, this would have been following either someone reporting the post or it being blatantly off-topic or abusive in some way. Was posted back a few pages. There are boards for that sorta thing, this is not one of them, there are charters to follow here.

1c [get with the times]

Far enough

also surely it should be 1.27c

Winters · 19-06-2008 2:48am

Back when we changed from Irish Pounds to Euro, £0.01p was valued at €0.01c.

gizmo · 19-06-2008 10:46am

Yes, off topic posts were removed and with good cause. As I said before this issue is an important one and I won't have it derailed by those kinds of posts.

And yes, dregin is right, this matter has been bubbling under the surface for quite some time now and it's taken the resignation of a Chair for it to come to head. Now I'm not saying that everyone isn't entitled to their opinion, but what I will point out is that those of us who have been around for longer will be able to identify these problems more effectively as we know what Redbrick used to be like, as opposed to the state it's in now.

andrew163 · 19-06-2008 10:53am

Unfortunately, "what it used to be like" is not going to help it survive into the future. What first years/new members expect to get from a college networking society should be given at least as much, if not more weight than what older members expect from a college networking society. And this expectation has shifted quite a bit even in the last two years, from what I've seen. I'd consider all of Ru's points so far (bar the ones where it got personal) to be completely valid, at least.

gizmo · 19-06-2008 11:15am

When I say "what it used to be like" I'm referring to membership levels and general attitudes within the society and indeed online. I'll touch on those when I eventually get to make my reply.

As for the value of the views of new members versus those of associates, well if you'll look back over the minutes from previous meetings I'm sure you'll probably see my "**** the associates" comment made during the discussion of a replacement for slrn. Despite the fact I'm now an associate I still agree with that comment. As Mark has said already the society should not be run with us in mind. If you want to take on any advice we give fair enough but if not, that's your decision.

Also, Ru's deleted posts were not on topic, neither were Amz's replies for that matter, hence they were deleted.

19-06-2008 11:18am

angelkat wrote:

decob quoted a post from cynical-ru, yet his post isn't there

I deleted the last post, but previous posts of mine have been deleted without reason but probably due to the fact that they disagreed with an older members views. The reason that I deleted the last post is gone is that I deleted it due partially to the changing of my mind on the matter but mostly because it quoted from Jesjes and I took her message up wrongly, so Jesjes, Sorry.
My post was a bit extreme and was along the lines of ending associate membership for everyone but those that held a position on the committee.

Merchelo_ wrote:

Concerned members more like.

Really, you are a concerned member? Obviously moreso concerned about keeping the society for yourself and your buddies rather than letting some first years with rosey views coming in to it.

Dregin wrote:

Said first year is taking a very rosey view of the goings on in redbrick and seems to see himself as an authority on how the society has been run in previous years even though he/she wasn't in the college.

OMG! :eek: A FIRST YEAR TRYING TO MAKE THE SOCIETY BETTER! A FIRST YEAR TELLING IT AS IT IS! A FIRST YEAR ALLOWED TO HAVE AN OPIONION?!?!?! I agree Dregin, this is something that you wouldn't be allowed to see in #lobby hence why there is only one person who registered last year logged in...no points for guessing who that is...

What a narrow minded view to give though, in a thread that that seems to be making headway into realising that something needs to be done. As Barack Obama would put it - Change. Or as jesjes would put it:

jesjes wrote:

the thread has turned to how to deal with this issue.

Ask yourself honestly Dregin, what would you rather see? Lobby as it is or some crowd of first/second years coming on and talking about planning their nights out to Barcode and XXIs...

I don't see myself as an authority but what I see myself as is an independent body. I am not a member of the committee. I don't know/care about the **** that has gone on in past years. I am here for a way in stopping a lot of my friends from not renewing next year, so please keep these elitist views at bay for the rest of the thread as these are helping no one, especially not the DCU Networking Society.

gizmo wrote:

what I will point out is that those of us who have been around for longer will be able to identify these problems more effectively

You have all been around for a while, why couldn't you have tried to stop this before it has gone on so far?

As has been pointed out before, I am nothing more than a concerned first year. Concerned because a society that I joined in October turns out not to be what I thought it would be at all...How many society's in DCU seem to be run by the actions of certain members/associates rather than the committee?
In my last few posts, I gave my opinion which usually wasn't taken on board because it went against the grain of the usual redbrick as redbrick is shaped now. You are all putting your head in the sand if you think that all you need to do is give a new board or give a new chat client, although I would welcome both these with open arms, the problem with redbrick is more of an attitude problem.
Now, as I said before, I am a first year. I thought this society might like to hear a first year's view on the topic but if you would rather stick to listening to arguments, flamings etc. from the older members, fine. But give it 2 years and this whole society will be finished as I don't believe that alumni can sit on the committee...

And that's my 2c.

Redbrick?

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