Italy tackles Roma Gypsies.

SimpleSam06 · 20-05-2008 09:44AM

Racism according to the UN:

the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.

Degsy · 20-05-2008 09:45AM

DesF wrote: »

If our government don't do something about the problem, I can see the rise of a proper right-wing party in Ireland in the next few years.

And what harm in that?All New Labour in England did was overrun the country with bogus asylum seekers,lose the war on crime,ban country sports and commit troops to a two wars they're too scared to admit they've no business in.

_blank_ · 20-05-2008 09:46AM

As I've said already.

It's not the fact that they are Roma, I couldn't care less about that.

It's more they way they behave.

I've no time for it, and the bleeding hearts still haven't addressed the points, preferring to bandy the rasims card.

So what, it was racist, get over it.

Now, why the fúck are you defending them? The ones that sponge, leech and are general parasite.

The ones that beg with children.

Dudess · 20-05-2008 09:47AM

I agree SDooM. Those "yor just a bunch of PC do-gooder liberal bla bla" comments drive me insane. They really make those who use them come across as very, very stupid. I don't mind "bleeding heart" though - I think there are some very naive individuals when it comes to issues such as, I suppose, crime and immigration mostly. Also there are some dreadfully militant super leftie... bigots really. They're as bad as their counterparts on the right. They preach "wah, wah, be nice to everyone" while being c*nts themselves. I think "bleeding heart" is a good term for them. I'm a moderate liberal and types like the above give the likes of me a bad name - and thus I regularly get the "PC", "do-gooder" comments thrown at me. What really makes me laugh is the term "liberal" being used as an insult: "oh stfu you bloody liberal". Er... yes. I'm so insulted because you just called me... a liberal! :eek: It's sad the way it's actually seen as a dirty word. Well yes I am a liberal actually so I ain't insulted when I get called one...
But not all liberals are bleeding hearts either.

_blank_ · 20-05-2008 09:47AM

Degsy wrote: »

And what harm in that?All New Labour in England did was overrun the country with bogus asylum seekers,lose the war on crime,ban country sports and commit troops to a two wars they're too scared to admit they've no business in.

Oh, I'd nearly be tempted to join up if the current politicians don't do something about it.

Doctor DooM · 20-05-2008 09:49AM

DesF wrote: »

The exception proves the rule.

The fact that somebody knows a couple of successful Roma. Wow.

The vast majority have no interest in that though.

Kick out all the parasites, be they Roma, African, Asian, dammit even American. If an American person comes here and expected to get that treatment, fúck them, fúck off back to where you came from.

No people who beg with children.

No people who sponge off my tax money.

Look, I'd turf Irish people out too, but they are at least Irish.

We have enough of our own problems, without taking on others too.

Vast majority is different to all.

And how do you know its a vast majority? Surely the reason you've never noticed any successful Roma(or I, tbh) is because they're NOT out on the streets making life a misery for you?

I completely agree btw, if someone is caught breaking the law and is not contributing in anyway, GTFO.

Maximilian · 20-05-2008 09:49AM

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Racism according to the UN:

the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.

I think most reasonable people who would like to kick Roma Gypsies out of Ireland, want to do so for reasons other than race, colour, descent, ethnic origin; so its not "racial discrimination" then if that was your point (apologies if it was the reverse)

javaboy · 20-05-2008 09:50AM

Maximilian wrote: »

I think most reasonable people who would like to kick Roma Gypsies out of Ireland, want to do so for reasons other than race, colour, descent, ethnic origin, so its not "racial discrimination" then.

Bingo.

_blank_ · 20-05-2008 09:50AM

For the last time.

I DON'T FÚCKING CARE THEY ARE ROMA!

I care that these people feel they are able to act like this.

Sam Vimes · 20-05-2008 09:51AM

Dudess wrote: »

It's sad the way it's actually seen as a dirty word. Well yes I am a liberal actually so I ain't insulted when I get called one...
But not all liberals are bleeding hearts either.

yeah i think that's hilarious. take america as an example. they use liberal like it's a dirty word but then proudly talk about how america is the best country in the world because it has the most liberty.

would these people prefer to live under a dictator or something?

Dudess · 20-05-2008 09:51AM

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Racism according to the UN:

the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.

Yep, nothing to do with having problems with a group of people, the majority of whose members' sole functions are to commit crime and to sponge. The fact that they happen to be from the same ethnic group is of no concern to me. That's not what I'm targeting, it's their behaviour that I'm targeting.

_blank_ · 20-05-2008 09:52AM

Are the bleeding hearts going to answer questions soon, or continue to get nice links and quotes explaining what racism is?

Xavi6 · 20-05-2008 09:52AM

SDooM wrote: »

+1, from another ex retailer. I have had many many bad encounters with Roma in the past. In fact I used to do a real life roll eye smiley when I saw them come in the door. But I still wouldn't make a statement like that.

Ehhhh what's the difference between thinking it and saying it?

Doctor DooM · 20-05-2008 09:53AM

Dudess wrote: »

I agree SDooM. Those "yor just a bunch of PC do-gooder liberal bla bla" comments drive me insane. They really make those who use them come across as very, very stupid. I don't mind "bleeding heart" though - I think there are some very naive individuals when it comes to issues such as, I suppose, crime and immigration mostly. Also there are some dreadfully militant super leftie... bigots really. They're as bad as their counterparts on the right. They preach "wah, wah, be nice to everyone" while being c*nts themselves. I think "bleeding heart" is a good term for them. I'm a moderate liberal and types like the above give the likes of me a bad name - and thus I regularly get the "PC", "do-gooder" comments thrown at me. What really makes me laugh is the term "liberal" being used as an insult: "oh stfu you bloody liberal". Er... yes. I'm so insulted because you just called me... a liberal! :eek: It's sad the way it's actually seen as a dirty word. Well yes I am a liberal actually so I ain't insulted when I get called one...
But not all liberals are bleeding hearts either.

Agree completely.

Once again, there is a problem, but going "All Roma are scum" isn't going to get it solved because the lefties will just dig in because it's racist and offends everything they stand for. If you were to state "I believe that every foreign national who is not contributing to society and is caught breaking the law should be fecked back to whence they came" without making it a left/right battle, maybe something would get bashed out.

FX Meister · 20-05-2008 09:53AM

po0k wrote: »

Show me a post-celtic-tiger cub who doesn't sh1t all over town on a Saturday night when out drinking with their kin, dropping rubbish everywhere, running around like petulant little children with no regard for common decency.

Yes, gas them all.

The post celtic tiger cubs pay tax, which helps to clean up after the mess you say they cause

Maximilian · 20-05-2008 09:53AM

Dudess wrote: »

I agree SDooM. Those "yor just a bunch of PC do-gooder liberal bla bla" comments drive me insane. They really make those who use them come across as very, very stupid. I don't mind "bleeding heart" though - I think there are some very naive individuals when it comes to issues such as, I suppose, crime and immigration mostly. Also there are some dreadfully militant super leftie... bigots really. They're as bad as their counterparts on the right. They preach "wah, wah, be nice to everyone" while being c*nts themselves. I think "bleeding heart" is a good term for them. I'm a moderate liberal and types like the above give the likes of me a bad name - and thus I regularly get the "PC", "do-gooder" comments thrown at me. What really makes me laugh is the term "liberal" being used as an insult: "oh stfu you bloody liberal". Er... yes. I'm so insulted because you just called me... a liberal! :eek: It's sad the way it's actually seen as a dirty word. Well yes I am a liberal actually so I ain't insulted when I get called one...
But not all liberals are bleeding hearts either.

There's nothing wrong with being liberal or right-wing per se as long as you are reasonable. Its only when things go to extremes that it all goes pear shaped.

Doctor DooM · 20-05-2008 09:54AM

Xavi6 wrote: »

Ehhhh what's the difference between thinking it and saying it?

Because when any known tea leaf walked into my store I rolled my eyes, and I try to keep an open mind.

Sam Vimes · 20-05-2008 09:54AM

DesF wrote: »

For the last time.

I DON'T FÚCKING CARE THEY ARE ROMA!

I care that these people feel they are able to act like this.

i think you're missing the point here. they are a sub group of people are you are judging this entire group or a vast majority of it. this is prejudice. if you said "everyone over 50 is useless" it would be the same. it's discrimination.

however, if you had statistics that said that 95% of roma gypsies are involved in crime it would no longer be prejudice. what you have is anecdotal evidence.

_blank_ · 20-05-2008 09:55AM

SDooM wrote: »

"All Roma are scum"

Who said that?

Where?

SDooM wrote: »

"I believe that every foreign national who is not contributing to society and is caught breaking the law should be fecked back to whence they came"

The bleeding hearts though.

They are the ones who start getting hysterical about racism etc etc, without looking at the issues.

"oh oh no, you aren't going to start saying that about anyone, nuh-uh, that's racist that is".

Degsy · 20-05-2008 09:55AM

Sam Vimes wrote: »

yeah i think that's hilarious. take america as an example. they use liberal like it's a dirty word but then proudly talk about how america is the best country in the world because it has the most liberty.

would these people prefer to live under a dictator or something?

Whether you like it or not,America has the most widely copied culture in the world.Its democratic constitution is also widely copied and its immigration ploicies were the envy of the world.The unfortunate truth is Ireland isnt america,we dont have the space and we dont have the rescources to just put up anybody who arrives on our shores.

Dudess · 20-05-2008 09:56AM

Maximilian wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with being liberal or right-wing per se as long as you are reasonable. Its only when things go to extremes that it all goes pear shaped.

Exactly. I've no time for fanatics or extremists of any persuasion. And it's also a problem when the fanatical behaviour of one group is used to dismiss someone who holds the same beliefs but who is actually a reasonable, moderate person. I'm a feminist but I'm far, far from a militant man hating nut job - yet sometimes I'd be almost afraid to say I'm a feminist...

_blank_ · 20-05-2008 09:56AM

Sam Vimes wrote: »

i think you're missing the point here. they are a sub group of people are you are judging this entire group or a vast majority of it. this is prejudice. if you said "everyone over 50 is useless" it would be the same. it's discrimination.

however, if you had statistics that said that 95% of roma gypsies are involved in crime it would no longer be prejudice. what you have is anecdotal evidence.

OK.

I apologise for my generalisation.

Now, will you address the issues, instead of being a pedantic bleeding heart.

togster · 20-05-2008 09:58AM

DesF wrote: »

Are the bleeding hearts going to answer questions soon, or continue to get nice links and quotes explaining what racism is?

Are the racists going to stop spoutinh horse sh!t?

What's your question? Whether we should kick out the bad ones and keep the good ones?

FX Meister · 20-05-2008 09:58AM

DesF wrote: »

They aren't a different race.

Yes they are. You might not like it though.

Sam Vimes · 20-05-2008 09:59AM

Degsy wrote: »

Whether you like it or not,America has the most widely copied culture in the world.Its democratic constitution is also widely copied and its immigration ploicies were the envy of the world.The unfortunate truth is Ireland isnt america,we dont have the space and we dont have the rescources to just put up anybody who arrives on our shores.

i never said anything about whether i like it or not, i was just pointing out how some people use the word liberal with negative connotations and then talk about how liberty is such a great thing. a contradiction no?

Degsy · 20-05-2008 09:59AM

Sam Vimes wrote: »

i think you're missing the point here. they are a sub group of people are you are judging this entire group or a vast majority of it. this is prejudice. if you said "everyone over 50 is useless" it would be the same. it's discrimination.

however, if you had statistics that said that 95% of roma gypsies are involved in crime it would no longer be prejudice. what you have is anecdotal evidence.

Lets just say if every single red-headed woman you ever say had big tits,would you then say that in your opinion all red-headed women had big tits?What would you say if somebody asked you to prove it??

javaboy · 20-05-2008 10:00AM

SDooM wrote:

Agree completely.

Once again, there is a problem, but going "All Roma are scum" isn't going to get it solved because the lefties will just dig in because it's racist and offends everything they stand for. If you were to state "I believe that every foreign national who is not contributing to society and is caught breaking the law should be fecked back to whence they came" without making it a left/right battle, maybe something would get bashed out.

Unfortunately a reasonable person can make that statement but along the way towards some extremely liberal people's ears, it becomes

"I believe that every foreign national who is not contributing to society and is caught breaking the law should be fecked back to whence they came".

and that pretty much makes any discussion on the topic impossible. I consider myself a moderate liberal as Elvis said above but I do believe any foreign national who is not making an attempt to contribute or who is not a genuine asylum seeker should be sent packing. But I am very careful about how I say that and who I say it to because it will as often as not be picked up as racism.

Doctor DooM · 20-05-2008 10:00AM

Admittedly "all roma are scum" was a paraphrase, but the term scum has been applied to them before here and they have been referred to as animals in this thread.

DesF wrote: »

This is what they are like. This is what they do.

Here is the offending article.

How are you defining bleeding heart, btw? I'm left wing. What do you want answers to?

TBH you are using very emotive language for the opposing side which is prob the reason you are not getting well written answers.

togster · 20-05-2008 10:02AM

Degsy wrote: »

Lets just say if every single red-headed woman you ever say had big tits,would you then say that in your opinion all red-headed women had big tits?What would you say if somebody asked you to prove it??

OK so evidence is pointless?

chopperbyrne · 20-05-2008 10:04AM

DesF wrote: »

It isn't racism tbh.

It's ethnic criticism Bill!

Italy tackles Roma Gypsies.

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