Child and difficult behaviour

Redpunto · 10-05-2008 03:49PM #1

I have a 7 yr old with aspergers and his selfish behaviour is getting incredibly difficult to handle and I dont know how to deal with it. Its really getting to me and its probably the biggest stress we have at the moment and causes huge agro in the family. I dont know if its his lack of socal skills and therefore lack of empathy due to the aspergers thats causing the problem or whether hes just developing a selfish personality. Could it be a phase that some children go through?

We were going to head out to shops just now but had to send him up to his room due to his behaviour and just the unwillingness to be nice. Im absolutely stressed but trying to stay calm but Im worried as well about the times I cant stay calm. What can i do? He already has no PS for 2 weeks, no DS for 1 week and no pocket money for a month but it wont change his behaviour.Help:eek::(

snellers · 10-05-2008 04:11PM

sorry if I am being ignorant with regards to the aspergers but aren;t there any specific organisations out there to assist you at all? (that can provide advice about dealing with aspergers?)
I have just had a quick look on the net and have come across an Irish dedicated site called aspire-irl.org (not sure if I can post web addresses fully here so just add www to the start of it. They have a section called 'support' whereby there are numbers and support groups that can be contacted.

apologies if you were fully aware of this - just thought I would mention as I guess there would be a very limited amount of people on here with experience of aspergers.

Dizzyblonde · 10-05-2008 04:26PM

I don't have personal experience of a child with Asperger's, however I'm a great believer in being in touch with others who are in the same boat, no matter what the problem is. As snellers said, you should join a support group if you haven't already.
I think it's important to be able to tell the difference between bold behaviour and behaviour that is caused by the condition so you're not punishing your child for something they can't help.
Seven can be a difficult age for a child anyway, they used to say it was the 'age of reason' so I think it's a time when they realise a lot of things about the world they live in, and they realise things about their own abilities. I looked up 'age of reason' and found this; http://www.raisingkids.co.uk/4_9/pri_dev04.asp

Raising a child with a problem like Aspreger's is very stressful and I hope you have plenty of support. It's only natural that you'd feel stretched to the limit.

Redpunto · 10-05-2008 08:01PM

snellers wrote: »

sorry if I am being ignorant with regards to the aspergers but aren;t there any specific organisations out there to assist you at all? (that can provide advice about dealing with aspergers?)
I have just had a quick look on the net and have come across an Irish dedicated site called aspire-irl.org (not sure if I can post web addresses fully here so just add www to the start of it. They have a section called 'support' whereby there are numbers and support groups that can be contacted.

apologies if you were fully aware of this - just thought I would mention as I guess there would be a very limited amount of people on here with experience of aspergers.

Thanks guys, yep know about the above, slight prob with support groups is that our fella is very high functioning so that most parents of support groups have kids who may be non-verbal or who dont communicate or takes all the doors off in the house and I go "my child's selfish"!!! I think I was just hoping I'd get a load of replies saying "yep that completely normal,,every 7 yr old goes through it"!

Dizzyblonde wrote: »

I don't have personal experience of a child with Asperger's, however I'm a great believer in being in touch with others who are in the same boat, no matter what the problem is. As snellers said, you should join a support group if you haven't already.
I think it's important to be able to tell the difference between bold behaviour and behaviour that is caused by the condition so you're not punishing your child for something they can't help.
Seven can be a difficult age for a child anyway, they used to say it was the 'age of reason' so I think it's a time when they realise a lot of things about the world they live in, and they realise things about their own abilities. I looked up 'age of reason' and found this; http://www.raisingkids.co.uk/4_9/pri_dev04.asp

Raising a child with a problem like Aspreger's is very stressful and I hope you have plenty of support. It's only natural that you'd feel stretched to the limit.

I think thats a huge issue with us is identifying the "bold" behaviour and the "autistic" behaviour. Thanks for the support though,,,was going through a rough couple of hours earlier

Redpunto · 10-05-2008 08:03PM

Snellers and Dizzy Blonde Thanks for lookin up stuff for me as well:):)

TequilaMockingBird · 10-05-2008 09:03PM

Hey Redpunto

Try www.mumsnet.co.uk An AS Mum I know gets lots of support there, as well as a few laughs.

I think there are differences with an AS child with regards "boldness". You've got a whole heap of aspergers traits, as well as a regular 7 year old throwing a strop. Trying to punish, or scold a child for something they don't understand is pointless, and as you know, will just confuse them more about that particular situation/event.

Sometimes I feel like this "

" with this child, but most of the time I feel like this

:):).

Best wishes to you and yours.

Nevyn · 11-05-2008 04:20AM

Hi Redpunto,

I also have a son who has aspergers,
he is ten and was diagnosed about a year go.

It can be hard to figure out if he is pushing your buttons or is having difficulty due to being on the spectrum. The lack of social skills and awareness made school tough going, it was like there was a lot of unwritten rules about interacting he just wasn't getting.

The child and family clinic which the school had refered us to is running a program which has been wonderful it's called the dina school program.

http://www.incredibleyears.com/program/child.asp

Incredible Years Child Training Programs

The Dinosaur Social Skills and Problem Solving curriculum is a child training curriculum that strengthens children's social, emotional and academic competencies such as understanding and communicating feelings, using effective problem solving strategies, managing anger, practicing friendship and conversational skills, as well as appropriate classroom behaviors.

The child training program can be used by counselors or therapists to treat "difficult" and highly aggressive children in small groups or can be used by teachers as a prevention program for an entire classroom of students.

The Dinosaur Child Training Program includes:

*
Understanding & Detecting Feelings
*
Detective Wally Teaches Problem Solving Steps
*
Tiny Turtle teaches Anger Management
*
Molly Manners Teaches How to be Friendly
*
Molly Explains How to Talk with Friends
*
Dina Dinosaur Teaches How to Do Your Best in School

He still has complete strop out days, but over all he has learned a lot of control and I have learned how to manage him better, yes some days it can be draining and frustrating but there are more happy and good days then hard ones.

Who worked with your son and gave you his diagnoses ?
Can they get you informations on courses that may help ?

It is tough with an AS kid cos in some many ways they come across as normal and they are bright, chatty and very capable of so many things, but yet littles stressers set them off and the lack of the awareness that greases the wheels of social interactions can be incredibly infuriating and hard to explain to them. Keeping a cool head can be very very hard at times.

The dina school programme has sections for parents and has a time built into it for parents to share and support each other, hopefully you can find one near you or something as good as it.

tribulus · 11-05-2008 04:50PM

Not a parent but the brother of someone close to me has AS. The mother found that when given a routine he would follow it exactly and thus by having routines for certain situations (bedtime being the main one) it made things a lot less stressful.

For example at 9:30pm he would begin the routine: change into pyjamas, brush teeth (15 minutes of brushing!), another 10 minutes in bathroom, say good night, into bed, read for a bit, asleep. The whole process takes over an hour but it's done like clockwork every night and he needs no help.

I know that probably doesn't help if something comes up and you need to leave quickly but if something is a regular occurrence then you could layout a step by step plan (even leave a post-it on the fridge) and practise it with him.

barbiegirl · 12-05-2008 10:53AM

My cousins little one as AS and it can be very frustrating, people who don't understand especially older relatives just think she is bold. She can be quite funny, is extremely intelligent, but can also be rude, very selfish and no amount of punishment works. From my limited understanding your little guy is normal, as to how to deal with it, some of the suggestions here seem quite good so I'm passing them on to my cousin :-) Best of luck

Nevyn · 12-05-2008 11:03AM

It can take a while to get through to my son why he should not do certain things.
I have taken the tact to emphasis respect, compassion and consideration.
Getting him to think what it would be like for him if he was the other person.

undecided · 12-05-2008 01:08PM

My DS is 5 and has had problems since very young. He has now had first part of assessment and they put suspected AS on it. So we are still going through the diagnostic process.

The only thing that I find works at home is some time alone to simmer him down and then a chat about why its wrong! As for school he is totally different and behaviour is much worse we have tried no DS no trampoline etc nothing works! We tried every trick in the book short of slapping which IMO wouldn't work! It seems to be pot luck!

Op cant offer much advice except to be patient! My LO is such a pleasant little thing you just wouldnt think he is capable of the stuff he does in the school! and I know when I speak to him about it he genuinely v remorseful- so I think kids with AS dont realise their doing wrong!

thaedyal great link!

Redpunto · 12-05-2008 05:13PM

Thanks sueme and Thaedydal, gonna check out those links now.

Sometimes we start to stress about when he gets older,,will he be able to have relationships,etc. Which obviously doesnt help with dealing with the behaviour now! Its his total lack of empathy for what other people feel which I really find hard to get my head around.

I thought I was a patient person before I had my son:D

Dizzyblonde · 13-05-2008 08:50AM

Redpunto, try not to stress about the future. My family are grown up and I can tell you that most of the things I worried about just didn't arise.
Remind yourself that your son's lack of empathy is caused by the AS and isn't just a lack of caring.
And I bet you are a very patient person - you just have a lot more to deal with than most mothers

Redpunto · 13-05-2008 11:42AM

Dizzyblonde wrote: »

Redpunto, try not to stress about the future. My family are grown up and I can tell you that most of the things I worried about just didn't arise.
Remind yourself that your son's lack of empathy is caused by the AS and isn't just a lack of caring.
And I bet you are a very patient person - you just have a lot more to deal with than most mothers

:):)

Nevyn · 13-05-2008 02:43PM

Redpunto wrote: »

Thanks sueme and Thaedydal, gonna check out those links now.

Sometimes we start to stress about when he gets older,,will he be able to have relationships,etc. Which obviously doesnt help with dealing with the behaviour now! Its his total lack of empathy for what other people feel which I really find hard to get my head around.

It does seem that he might need help reading people's faces and figuring out what they are feeling. I know that the section on this in the program my son did was very helpful in figuring out what he was feeling and see that in others.

He will get there and yes it is possible for him to grow up get a good job and marry and have kids.

It's not that AS is new it's the name for it is new, people were just seen as irratic and eccentric a bit odd but still went on to live happy lives.

http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/~alistair/survival/

is a wonderful insight, it was written by a young man with As.

Redpunto wrote: »

I thought I was a patient person before I had my son:D

It really pushes you as a parent, there were times I tought why am I such a crap parent, why is he behaving like this, this was when we were going through 6 months of hell with him but we have learned how to manage him and work with him and he is learning to manage himself and self check.

You will get there.

Redpunto · 14-05-2008 05:29PM

I suppose we thought things would get easier as he gets older but instead new difficulties are arising all the time and we're expected to know how to deal with them. We really sometimes think we dont have a clue. But he has overcome so much through his own determination, just wish he would push himeslf more as he is capable of much more if he could open his mind up but i suppose thats part of the probelem.

Nevyn · 14-05-2008 09:09PM

Best thing you can hope for is a frame work. Ways of identifiying what is difficult and how to deal with the stress that causes and to stop it impacting too negatively on him so that he can and will try again.

It took me two years to teach my son to tie shoe laces and he would come out with things like he was stupid and wanted to commit suicide cos he was too dumb to be able to tie shoes laces.

That was his way of trying to express his upset and frustration at not being able to do
it. The first step for me was not getting up at what he was saying but seeing what he was trying to express and then gave him different words to express it and explain why
those words were not a good way of expressing it and to work with him on breathing and not getting all tensed up as that meant there was no way he could tie the laces.

As children with AS get older then it is the fun of the changing socail dynamics esp in the class room when there are boys and girls, issues of personal space and being polite and not making the blunt comments, but they get there.

It's not that he can't open his mind it is that his mind works differently, is wired differently and you have to find out how he sees things and find away to communicate to him and get him to understand.

His learning curve will be different and something he just always struggle with the same as 'normal' people struggle with things.

I wrote this a while back it might help
It's not hidden it's concealed. and there was another good bit on managing stress level too

FYI– about students with Autism/ Asperger’s
by Lenore Gould (1996), Carbon-Lehigh Right to Education Task Force,
Schnecksville, PA
Distributed by Autism Services Center, Huntington, WV, by kind permission of the author

Those of us who have daily contact with children with autism sometimes have trouble explaining to regular education teachers or administrators the “hooks” of autism; especially the kinds of support they need. You’re always trying to explain the basics, “no, moving the pencil sharpener’s location in the classroom is not what upset him. You have to understand that…” Then I came up with this analogy. Perhaps it will help others to visualize the support needed.

Try to imagine the child balancing a large serving tray on one upturned hand. Every distress for that child is like a liquid-filled glass you are putting on this tray. The “distress glasses” are unique to each kid; but generally include things like auditory or visual over-stimulation, social interaction, “surprises” or unexpected changes in the schedule, lack of clear leadership, the number of people in the room; whatever is sensitive for that child. (Don’t forget the ability to read the body English and anxiety of the adults around them!) The size and weight of the “glass” for that child varies. Some things are merely shot glass size, while others can be a 2-liter jug. At some point the tray is going to start to wobble– the liquid will start spilling out of the glasses on the tray. The cues that this is happening will vary from kid to kid: just as the cause and size of a “glass” varies kid to kid, but will generally include regressive behavior, avoidance or shutting down, giggling or minor acting out to get attention.

Hopefully, someone will help the kid rebalance the tray, or remove some glasses. Perhaps taking a break, or allowing time to refocus or process will work; again, techniques are unique to each kid. If there’s no intervention, the addition of one more “glass” will topple the tray to the floor. The cause is not the most recent “glass” you added, but the fact that the tray was full or too heavy (the latter is why the child seems so unpredictable to some people.) Our efforts should be that the kid learns to hold a bigger tray, or to do minor correction of the tray’s balance somewhat independently, but they will always carry that wobbling tray. Ignoring cues can be disastrous, from classroom disruptions to a major regression. When an autistic kid’s tray comes crashing to the floor, it is always a major event.

That’s why, if I hear my son got highly upset over a moved pencil sharpener and acted out, I do not want to hear that he has to learn to accept change. The sharpener is immaterial, if I learn that day he’d dealt with a substitute teacher, a fire drill just as Reading was starting, dead calculator batteries halfway through math, a crashed computer in the middle of English, a late bus so that he missed part of home room and some fluorescent lights in the class are half out- his tray was already fill.

All of the distresses are unavoidable and he’d dealt with them without a hitch; but each was another glass on his tray.

Autistic kids need someone around who is familiar with them; to sense how full the tray is getting and read the cues, so there’s intervention before that wobbling tray topples to the floor. that is why the type of support for these kids is critical, not just a “hot body” nearby– but the “right hot body” whom they can trust will help balance and who knows the “hooks”.

Nevyn · 14-05-2008 09:24PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wt1IY3ffoU

This is an amazing talk by Temple Grandin on austism, aspergers and non neural typical brains.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Grandin

Child and difficult behaviour

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