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hardy heron
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24-04-2008 02:07PM#1
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Pity you had a bad experience. The guides are pretty good on the forums. You're a lot more likely to find a guide for getting your card working under older verisons for now. When all else fails, you can use ndiswrapper and the Windows driver for the card.Slutmonkey57b wrote: »Have downloaded and installed using the Windows installer - booted fine, but I'm already getting bad impressions. The wireless network troubleshooter tells you to look for "hardware information" and "device manager" under the preferences menu.
Shame neither of them are there.
And the help docs don't turn up a result under either name.
Nor does the search function on the web forums (though it handily reformats my search terms into effectively the opposite of what I searched for without telling me.)
And yet again it doesn't enable wireless by default, nor does it say "hmmm no network connection, have you tried .... <whatever>, you moron?. Just sits there and say "erk! broken!".
And the default desktop and colour scheme are stomach turning.
I'll stop before I get ranty and see if it's in a better mood this time.
Can't say I've had that hassle with the forum and search terms. Have you tried using double quote marks around your terms to prevent any changes to your search terms?
The brown/orange colours are actually refreshingly different (polar opposite to Redmond Blue anyway
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Slutmonkey57b wrote: »Add/Remove programs and synaptic default to downloading things from internet respositorys instead of the install CD. This is both unecessary and, given Linux's spotty wireless support, brainless. AND, when they don't have a connection, they don't have the smarts to, oh, I don't know, maybe.... attempt a different install location? Ask for the CD maybe? Or give you the choice beforehand?.
It used to check the install CD first, but due to demand from the community they changed it to the internet. As a nerd you should appreciate, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few
http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/6483/
Your right though, it should look for other locations. What did you do about it though? You should have posted your message on the ubuntu forums not here. It can actually get fixed there! The guys at ubuntu are very good at listening to the community, as are alot of different distibutions.Slutmonkey57b wrote: »given Linux's spotty wireless support
Linux supports 100% of the wireless cards that manufactures have written drivers for. As support for linux grows, hopefully we will see actual drivers being written by manufactures.Slutmonkey57b wrote: »Last time, I couldn't believe kubuntu expected me to unlock highly secure areas of the system, like the mouse control panel (changing the mouse wheel scrolling speed being a notorious hacker trick). This time, I am apparently expected to enter a password to access my own f*cking hard drives in my own f*cking machine, on a system where I am the only registered f*cking user, and which is not connected to any network (not for want of trying mind you)
This is how linux / unix works. If you want access to everything login as root. Or change your access control in the control panel. FYI, largely the reason why windows is plagued with malware is because of this. If you use Vista, you will see pop up messages all the time asking you permission to install programs access areas etc. They are trying to rectify their ways!
The root accout is disabled by default in ubuntu. To activate it, at the command line type sudo root passwdSlutmonkey57b wrote: »Unlike kubuntu, the default video player actually knew when it didn't have a codec, and knew where to find it, and downloaded it. Something actually worked! Then I try and open the same mp3 in the default audio player... and it tells me I don't have the codec. I check the codec again. "packaged for <whatever>". At this point I really couldn't face looking it up to see if, as I suspected, each player wanted its own copies of the necessary codecs. I really wouldn't be suprised.
You have to remember that linux is free. They can't ship the codecs with the system. You also can't criticise lnux for one application. If you want system wide codec support, go into add/remove and click the codecs you want to install and they will be installed system wide.
The last operating system I used that wasn't linux /solaris was XP. It did not have the codecs installed from a fresh install and did not have the ability to install them manually as Ubuntu does. I am interested, does any one know does Vista or the Mac ship with them? ( They probably don't to save the euro or so per copy)
Linux is by no means perfect, just like all the other operating systems out there. but it is growing at a phenomenal rate. If you have issues with it, get them fixed yourself. That is what the whole thing is about. Go the forum of the distribution you use and post your complaint. If others agree it will be changed. I bet if we tried we could list 100 things wrong with any OS. Don't just say its f*cking brainless.0 -
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stereo_steve wrote: »It used to check the install CD first, but due to demand from the community they changed it to the internet. As a nerd you should appreciate, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few
http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/6483/
Your right though, it should look for other locations. What did you do about it though? You should have posted your message on the ubuntu forums not here. It can actually get fixed there! The guys at ubuntu are very good at listening to the community, as are alot of different distibutions.
Well, if that's what the community voted for, then that's what they're getting. Even given that, though, there's no reason why the change couldn't have been made to go <search internet> IF <no internet> THEN <ask for CD>. How many lines of code does that really involve? That's not "responding to the community", that's either plain brainlessness or plain bad coding. It doesn't even count as lazy coding, it's that trivial.Linux supports 100% of the wireless cards that manufactures have written drivers for. As support for linux grows, hopefully we will see actual drivers being written by manufactures.
Which doesn't change the issue that wireless support is not reliable. My problem wasn't even that wireless support isn't good. My problem is everyone knows wireless support isn't great, and yet the devs have a "head in the sand" approach to the whole issue and haven't set things up so that people with no net access can still fix problems or install basic software. Again, that makes no sense at all, unless you're either blind to your OS's failings, or making very stupid decisions.This is how linux / unix works. If you want access to everything login as root. Or change your access control in the control panel. FYI, largely the reason why windows is plagued with malware is because of this.
Windows is plagued with malware because users of closed-box machines are trying to access their own hard drives? Or because someone is trying to access the scroll wheel speed on their mouse? Give me a fuccking break.
Windows is plagued with malware because it's the hacker's #1 target.If you use Vista, you will see pop up messages all the time asking you permission to install programs access areas etc. They are trying to rectify their ways!
I used vista. It never asked me why I wanted to change my mouse settings, or asked for a password before it would let me access my own documents. I might do so before it let me delete system files though. That makes sense.The root accout is disabled by default in ubuntu. To activate it, at the command line type sudo root passwd
Why should I have to do that to change a mouse setting? Or get at my hard drives? Sure I should have to do it to install a kernel mode driver. But a mouse setting?You have to remember that linux is free. They can't ship the codecs with the system. You also can't criticise lnux for one application. If you want system wide codec support, go into add/remove and click the codecs you want to install and they will be installed system wide.
Oh, I have no issue with OS's not shipping with codecs. My issue is the default video player auto-installs codecs I need. But other default apps on the same machine can't use said codecs. That's just stupid. XP has the same problem - but if WMP downloads a codec, then Media Player Classic, or VLC can use it as well.
Blaming the apps rather than the OS dev's doesn't fly either - they have the choice to use whatever apps they want in their distro. How difficult is is to say "Hey - lets choose two apps out of the hundreds of open source alternatives that actually work together and don't require the user to install two copies of the same codecs? A) It isn't difficult - so it must be brainlessness.Linux is by no means perfect, just like all the other operating systems out there. but it is growing at a phenomenal rate. If you have issues with it, get them fixed yourself. That is what the whole thing is about. Go the forum of the distribution you use and post your complaint. If others agree it will be changed. I bet if we tried we could list 100 things wrong with any OS. Don't just say its f*cking brainless.
The OS itself isn't necessarily brainless. But some of the most basic, obvious choices that have been made in its setup and presentation are so stupid as to verge on the chewing-your-arm-off variety.
As pointed out above, Hardy (morelike Laurel and Hardy amirite) is supposed to be ubuntu's version of a stable, conservative, long-term-support release. Yet:- They've used a BETA internet browser as the default. The argument "V 2.0 won't be around in 3 years" only highlights the stupidity - neither will the f.cking BETA. And the BETA isn't supported officially anyway! What does this say about their ideas of stable, long-term code quality? Answer: A lot more than they'd like.
- They're advertising a brand new way of installing - Wubi - and making a big noise about how it's the "safe" option. Which is so new.. it's unreliable. It might be a great bit of coding, and a wonderful tool. But a new, relatively untested install method that (in my case) could **** up your machine is NOT something that should be part of an LTS release that you're hoping to sell as an enterprise-ready desktop.
- The most basic documentation is either unreliable, or relies on internet-connected community-run forums. TechNet and DevNet are the prime examples of what conservative industry buyers want and expect from OS support. Hate or love MS, they know how to keep devs and mass-license buyers appeased. Forums are a great option. They shouldn't be the only option, at least not for the market ubuntu are aiming at.
See, none of the above problems is a "Sale killer" if you like, all on its own. None of the problems are insurmountable, in most cases they're obvious and trivial to solve. The problem is that when you sit back and look at it, you start to see glaring examples of very very bad, stupid, or lazy planning and execution that has gone into it over the whole project.
Choices like the ones above all have the same ring to them: "Eh, whatever, good enough, slap it in, we'll fix it in the next release six months down the line." That's fine for an app. It's entirely the wrong way to think about an OS.
Windows, of course, has the opposite problem: "Whoa! Don't take that out! Some useless **** is still using that feature from 30 years ago! You'll break it!"0 -
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I'm after trashing my brand new Hardy upgrade by accidentally removing my modules dir like a spanner
so I might reinstall from scratch tonight. It'll be interesting to see if there's any difference with a fresh install (seemed fine after the upgrade from Gutsy (actually, better - my graphics card was fully supported, so now I'm running full Gnome graphical effects)) 0 -
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You know for a while there , i considered not replying to your post. Not because of what you said, just the sheer length of it!Slutmonkey57b wrote: »Well, if that's what the community voted for, then that's what they're getting. Even given that, though, there's no reason why the change couldn't have been made to go <search internet> IF <no internet> THEN <ask for CD>. How many lines of code does that really involve? That's not "responding to the community", that's either plain brainlessness or plain bad coding. It doesn't even count as lazy coding, it's that trivial.
Yeah I agree here, although it doesn't really serve much of a point at the moment. Maybe later when there are DVD's with with loads of different packages on it. I think there are ubuntu DVD's now with different gui's?? Everything on the CD is installed during the installation. I can't think if a reason why you would need to read off the CD. Unless you purposely removed a package and wanted to reinstall an older version at a later date?Which doesn't change the issue that wireless support is not reliable. My problem wasn't even that wireless support isn't good. My problem is everyone knows wireless support isn't great, and yet the devs have a "head in the sand" approach to the whole issue and haven't set things up so that people with no net access can still fix problems or install basic software. Again, that makes no sense at all, unless you're either blind to your OS's failings, or making very stupid decisions.
What can they do here though? Change Ubuntu from a CD to a DVD that includes loads of windows drivers and have a script to use them with ndiswrapper? Could be an option although they probably would need permission from the writers of the proprietary drivers and its messy.
If we look at windows, how do they do it any better? When was the last time you saw windows install and it found every driver? Sure you can buy a windows PC with all the drivers in place but the same is true for Ubuntu.
I don't understand what you mean, they have not setup a way for people to get basic software? Is it not the same as other operating system? You go to the website of the program you want (on a pc with net access) copy the .deb on a mem stick and put it in your pc with no net access. Double click the deb. I don't mean to sound rude but do you want the ubuntu dev's to come over to your house and do it?? Maybe you want a CD with loads of debs on it? I don't think there is demand for one, but you could create it?Windows is plagued with malware because users of closed-box machines are trying to access their own hard drives? Or because someone is trying to access the scroll wheel speed on their mouse? Give me a fuccking break.
Windows is plagued with malware because it's the hacker's #1 target.
No doubt its the number one target. I definitely agree but its the way its setup that makes it so easy for attacks. In windows you are the administrator when you log on. If a website tries to run a bit a code, through a flaw in IE , firefox etc windows will permit it to run. The same is not true linux, unix etcI used vista. It never asked me why I wanted to change my mouse settings, or asked for a password before it would let me access my own documents. I might do so before it let me delete system files though. That makes sense.
Why should I have to do that to change a mouse setting? Or get at my hard drives? Sure I should have to do it to install a kernel mode driver. But a mouse setting?
When you go to the system menu. There is the preferences and administration tab. I pretty sure everything the preferences tab requires no password, which includes mouse configuration. Am I wrong? It doesn't prompt me when I try to change a mouse setting. So you need to enter a password for system options, things which would affect all users on the system and again you are not the administrator. From a quick look this includes Hardware drivers, language options,system time, addition of users etc.
It doesn't let you access your harddrives? I don't understand. Do you mean the system files? Once again your not the administrator. Log in a the administrator if it bothers you.
If your refering to other harddrives in your computer then you didn't mount them when you were installing Ubuntu. Did you install Ubuntu with your harddrives unplugged because you were worried ubuntu might mess them up? Or possibly you just didn't mount them.
This is just a matter of saying were you want them to be on your system. For example, if you mounted them to /home/yourname/Desktop/harddrivename then thats were they will be added to the file system on boot up. No password to be entered ever when you access them as a user.Oh, I have no issue with OS's not shipping with codecs. My issue is the default video player auto-installs codecs I need. But other default apps on the same machine can't use said codecs. That's just stupid. XP has the same problem - but if WMP downloads a codec, then Media Player Classic, or VLC can use it as well.
I have never experienced this. Not saying your wrong, its just the first thing I do after an install is click about 30 things in the add/remove panel and walk away for an hour. I agree codec support should be system wide. Can't debate this though because I never experienced it.
By the way I'm pretty sure VLC uses its own codecs irrespective of whatever codecs are on a system no matter what operating system its on. VLC is not brainless! Could be wrong about this paragraph though.Blaming the apps rather than the OS dev's doesn't fly either - they have the choice to use whatever apps they want in their distro. How difficult is is to say "Hey - lets choose two apps out of the hundreds of open source alternatives that actually work together and don't require the user to install two copies of the same codecs? A) It isn't difficult - so it must be brainlessness.
Assuming your correct, I think its excessive to call the whole thing brainless over that issue. Again can't argue, never experienced this.[*]They've used a BETA internet browser as the default. The argument "V 2.0 won't be around in 3 years" only highlights the stupidity - neither will the f.cking BETA. And the BETA isn't supported officially anyway! What does this say about their ideas of stable, long-term code quality? Answer: A lot more than they'd like.
Is it ideal? No. But I believe its the best of a bad situation. Many agree that Firefox 3b5 is far better already than firefox 2 ever was. You would have a hard time finding people to disagree. Aside from the extensions, which coming out very fast. Not really ubuntus fault. I have my two working now. Adblock plus and greasemonkey.
Firefox 3 is out in a month. This ubuntu release is being suppoted for 3 years. To roll out Firefox 2 just for the sake of one month is not good. It would make for much more unstable system. FWIW there is a new ubuntu release in a month 8.4.1 only difference being the firefox change. Something to consider is that the owners of the systems that use firefox are the ones with net access. It means that their firefox will be updated automatically.[*]They're advertising a brand new way of installing - Wubi - and making a big noise about how it's the "safe" option. Which is so new.. it's unreliable. It might be a great bit of coding, and a wonderful tool. But a new, relatively untested install method that (in my case) could **** up your machine is NOT something that should be part of an LTS release that you're hoping to sell as an enterprise-ready desktop.
I've never used it I don't know what its like. What exactly did it do to your computer? I'm not going to say anything about it, cos more than likely it would be inaccurate But just because its new isn't a problem, if its buggy that is an issue. Other than you though I haven't heard any issues with it.[*]The most basic documentation is either unreliable, or relies on internet-connected community-run forums. TechNet and DevNet are the prime examples of what conservative industry buyers want and expect from OS support. Hate or love MS, they know how to keep devs and mass-license buyers appeased. Forums are a great option. They shouldn't be the only option, at least not for the market ubuntu are aiming at.
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I haven't looked for documentation on ubuntu so I have nothing to say about it. Other than the fact I googled ubuntu docs and got this http://doc.ubuntu.com/ It looks like they are working on it alright. Once again linux is a community, it needs people like you and me to contribute to it. Whats the windows documentation like? I'm sure its good but something I also never looked at while I was a windows user.See, none of the above problems is a "Sale killer" if you like, all on its own. None of the problems are insurmountable, in most cases they're obvious and trivial to solve. The problem is that when you sit back and look at it, you start to see glaring examples of very very bad, stupid, or lazy planning and execution that has gone into it over the whole project.
Choices like the ones above all have the same ring to them: "Eh, whatever, good enough, slap it in, we'll fix it in the next release six months down the line." That's fine for an app. It's entirely the wrong way to think about an OS.
Windows, of course, has the opposite problem: "Whoa! Don't take that out! Some useless **** is still using that feature from 30 years ago! You'll break it!"
Alot of the stuff you have complained about I have no issue with and disagree on many things you see as troublesome.0 -
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