Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

Grand Slam Sunday

1…1516171921

Comments

  • #542
    jesus_thats_gre
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,446 ✭✭✭✭jesus_thats_gre


    Draw
    And I hate getting dragged into these bull**** arguments. I don't actually care but I just cannot resist replying to outlandish or throllish posts.

    Before you say it, am not referring to Xavi at all. He is making fair points but we just disagree.


  • #543
    Melion
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,259 ✭✭✭✭Melion


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    'Easily' is a bit of an exaggeration. Van Der Sar has been just as good. United's defensive record, goals conceded etc. will vouch for that.

    I'm sorry but you don't seem to be giving any credit to any keeper who plays outside the niche of the top 4.

    Who did i just say has been the best keeper in the league this year?

    So Uniteds defensive record and goals conceded will speak for VDS and say how good he is but Reina isnt as good even though we've conceded less and he's had more clean sheets???


  • #544
    jesus_thats_gre
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,446 ✭✭✭✭jesus_thats_gre


    Draw
    Xavi6 wrote: »
    'Easily' is a bit of an exaggeration. Van Der Sar has been just as good. United's defensive record, goals conceded etc. will vouch for that.

    I'm sorry but you don't seem to be giving any credit to any keeper who plays outside the niche of the top 4.

    That is because they are inferior keepers. Eventually, a keeper that is worthy of playing at the highest level but is playing at a mid table club, he will be picked up.


  • #545
    Xavi6
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,149 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    Draw
    jesus_thats_gre wrote: »
    I genuinely rate Given as a keeper but one think I have always wondered is why none of the big clubs made a play for him. There has been the odd rumour but feck all. Always wondered why this was.

    By your logic and how you rank keepers, it is not unresonable to say he is 5th. Just like some would rate VDS as being better, some would also rate Reina as easily being superior to Friedel, James, Given, or Green. He is without doubt in the top 3 keepers in the league.

    See there it is again. He is not 'without doubt' in the top 3 in the league. There is plenty of doubt about it.


  • #546
    jesus_thats_gre
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,446 ✭✭✭✭jesus_thats_gre


    Draw
    Xavi6 wrote: »
    See there it is again. He is not 'without doubt' in the top 3 in the league. There is plenty of doubt about it.

    According to you..... So you saying that he is not holds more weight than me saying that he is?


  • Advertisement
  • #547
    Xavi6
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,149 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    Draw
    jesus_thats_gre wrote: »
    That is because they are inferior keepers. Eventually, a keeper that is worthy of playing at the highest level but is playing at a mid table club, he will be picked up.

    So the best keepers always end up at the big clubs? Just like Taibi did. It doesn't always work as cut and dry as you make it with Shay Given being case in point. We all know he was the best keeper in the league for a number of consecutive seasons yet he never wanted to leave Newcastle. Merely playing for a top 4 club isn't the only benchmark by which a goalkeeper should be judged.


  • #548
    Xavi6
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,149 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    Draw
    jesus_thats_gre wrote: »
    According to you..... So you saying that he is not holds more weight than me saying that he is?

    Nope. I've never once said he is 'without doubt not in the top 3'. I've said in my opinion he is not. Big difference.


  • #549
    Melion
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,259 ✭✭✭✭Melion


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    See there it is again. He is not 'without doubt' in the top 3 in the league. There is plenty of doubt about it.

    As i just said, he has set a lot of records since he signed for us yet still cant be rated highly. He has more clean sheets in his 2 and a half years in the PL than any other keeper in that time period yet still cant get recognition.


  • #550
    ShoulderChip
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭ShoulderChip


    Draw
    Xavi6 wrote: »
    He also plays a lot of Playstation. I'm failing to see what you're getting at. If you mean it affected his performance then no one ever told 40 a day Robert Prosinecki.

    thats true but check out over here
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055261376

    I did not know he played playstation


  • #551
    ShoulderChip
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭ShoulderChip


    Draw
    its easy to get that poll right when its still up after the matches!!


  • Advertisement
  • #552
    jesus_thats_gre
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,446 ✭✭✭✭jesus_thats_gre


    Draw
    Xavi6 wrote: »
    So the best keepers always end up at the big clubs? Just like Taibi did. It doesn't always work as cut and dry as you make it with Shay Given being case in point. We all know he was the best keeper in the league for a number of consecutive seasons yet he never wanted to leave Newcastle. Merely playing for a top 4 club isn't the only benchmark by which a goalkeeper should be judged.

    So, Taibi was **** when he played in England. What significance does this have as to the potential that he showed prior to being signed that made a club take a risk on him?

    Yeah, we all know that we as Irish people considered the Irish goalkeeper to be the best in the league. He is a great player but am anything but wholey convinced.

    It isn't the only benchmark. Stuff like number of goals conceeded or number of clean sheets in recent years are valid benchmarks though.


  • #553
    Melion
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,259 ✭✭✭✭Melion


    jesus_thats_gre wrote: »
    It isn't the only benchmark. Stuff like number of goals conceeded or number of clean sheets in recent years are valid benchmarks though.

    Reina holds the most clean sheets and the least goals conceded but apparently that doesnt show his class.


  • #554
    ShoulderChip
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭ShoulderChip


    Draw
    jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

    It isn't the only benchmark. Stuff like number of goals conceeded or number of clean sheets in recent years are valid benchmarks though.

    they are benchmarks of best overall defense, and overall team, a keeper is a small percentage of that.

    good keepers should not be derived through stats but sense.


  • #555
    ShoulderChip
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭ShoulderChip


    Draw
    Melion wrote: »
    Reina holds the most clean sheets and the least goals conceded but apparently that doesnt show his class.

    I agree that that doesn't show his class.

    it hints at it however.

    not that i am remarking on his degree of "class"


  • #556
    Xavi6
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,149 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    Draw
    jesus_thats_gre wrote: »
    So, Taibi was **** when he played in England. What significance does this has to the potential that he showed prior to being signed that made a club take a risk on him?

    Well you said that all good keepers should get a chance to prove themselves at the highest level. My point is that there are many sh*t ones who also get the chance, same way there are great keepers who don't get the opportunity.
    jesus_thats_gre wrote: »
    Yeah, we all know that we as Irish people considered the Irish goalkeeper to be the best in the league. He is a great player but am anything but wholey convinced.

    It wasn't Irish people who voted him onto the PFA Team of the Year more than once.
    jesus_thats_gre wrote: »
    It isn't the only benchmark. Stuff like number of goals conceeded or number of clean sheets in recent years are valid benchmarks though.

    Agreed. As is the quality of defence the keeper played behind.


  • #557
    Melion
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,259 ✭✭✭✭Melion


    But havent people given out saying Agger, Carra and Hyypia are rubbish defenders? Surely with such a shíte defence in front of him a poor keeper should have conceded more.


  • #558
    lordgoat
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 11,433 Mod ✭✭✭✭lordgoat


    Draw
    ShoulderChip wrote: »
    its easy to get that poll right when its still up after the matches!!

    +1 before the match began most the majority had liverpool to win and the other match to be a draw...


  • #559
    ShoulderChip
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭ShoulderChip


    Draw
    well if teams have been shooting at his net, yet


  • #560
    Xavi6
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,149 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    Draw
    Melion wrote: »
    But havent people given out saying Agger, Carra and Hyypia are rubbish defenders? Surely with such a shíte defence in front of him a poor keeper should have conceded more.

    Well I don't agree with them either. Carragher and Agger are a top partnership and Skrtel is looking good too now. Arbeloa has been consistent as well this year.

    Put it this way, Liverpool have a far better defence than the likes of West Ham.


  • #561
    Mr.Nice Guy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,643 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    Draw
    Xavi6 wrote: »
    So the best keepers always end up at the big clubs? Just like Taibi did. It doesn't always work as cut and dry as you make it with Shay Given being case in point. We all know he was the best keeper in the league for a number of consecutive seasons yet he never wanted to leave Newcastle. Merely playing for a top 4 club isn't the only benchmark by which a goalkeeper should be judged.

    Well said. Can't believe some of the rubbish on this thread. Shay Given has had to put up with an abomination of a defence for many seasons which makes the 'number of goals conceded', 'number of clean sheets' argument pointless.

    As for the nonsense about "a keeper that is worthy of playing at the highest level but is playing at a mid table club...will be picked up", two words - Brad Friedel. Named best goalkeeper of 2003 and still performing consistently. I bet Liverpool strongly regret ditching him in favour of Westerveld.


  • Advertisement
  • #562
    Xavi6
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,149 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    Draw
    Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »
    Well said. Can't believe some of the rubbish on this thread. Shay Given has had to put up with an abomination of a defence for many seasons which makes the 'number of goals conceded', 'number of clean sheets' argument pointless.

    As for the nonsense about "a keeper that is worthy of playing at the highest level but is playing at a mid table club...will be picked up", two words - Brad Friedel. Named best goalkeeper of 2003 and still performing consistently. I bet Liverpool strongly regret ditching him in favour of Westerveld.

    *Awaits the inevitable "Eh no we don't" response from 'pool fans.*


  • #563
    BaZmO*
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,625 ✭✭✭✭BaZmO*


    jesus_thats_gre wrote: »
    players putting big performance in against 10 men for 60 mins at home is quite an achievement.
    jesus_thats_gre wrote: »
    Liverpool team were extremely poor and playing with 10 men for 60 mins.
    60 mins you say? Hmmm...


    And as for the keeper argument, the only way to judge how good a keeper is to judge him on his mistakes. You can't blame a keeper for letting in a 100 goals in a season if he has 4 Titus Brambles as his back 4 and likewise, you can't praise a keeper for not conceding any goals in a season when he has 4 John Terrys in front of him.


  • #564
    Mitch Connor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 49,324 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    BaZmO* wrote: »
    60 mins you say? Hmmm...
    Half time was action packed - a tough 15 minutes.


  • #565
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,914 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Draw
    Reina is years off his peak. For the time he has been at Liverpool so far his overall standard of performance has been adequate to very good. He will get better, just as Freidal and James did, and it is difficult to say at this point in time just how good he will be when he is 31 - 36 (goalkeepers peak later).

    Freidal and James developed into absolute beasts of athletes. One could argue that Freidal is the second best goalkeeper to have ever graced the premiership on account of his performances for Blackburn over the past five seasons. James should have seen more gametime for England over the past two / three years but the reputation and media tag of 'clamity' was not so easy to cast off despite his excellent form at City / Portsmouth.

    The position is one that demands a lot of maturity, and experience counts for a hell of a lot. When we offloaded James and Freidal it was definitely the right decision each time. That they developed into the goalkeepers they are today is a direct product of the first team football they received elsewhere in different footballing environments. It is crucial to understand that playing for a top four side is a very different sort of goalkeeping challenge to playing for a midtable / relegation threatened team. Teams further down the table naturally concede more clear cut opportunities meaning that a goalkeeper spends less stretches of the game idle. This also serves to make him look like a hero and allows him to get away with more direct errors per year because the saves : mistake ratio is always going to be hugely in his favour. A large part of the battle playing for a Liverpool or a Chelsea will be maintaining focus and concentration so that you are good to go when play breaks down. And the defense may only break down once or twice a game against weaker opposition / in tight games vs top teams.

    Freidal and James were goalkeepers with some good qualities when we offloaded them - but they weren't the complete package at the time we got rid of them. Reina is not the complete package now of course, but you can not simply discount the solidity and consistency he has shown across the whole of his Liverpool career thus far. He has been the most solid presence we have had between the sticks since Westerveld's 50 game stretch in goal (the axing of Westerveld was unbelievably harsh by the way).

    Reina made a mistake on Sunday. So what. No need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. For a goalkeeper at his age and with his experience his error count is very, very low. He could be really, really good. And he'll definitely do for now.


  • #566
    Nalz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,464 ✭✭✭✭Nalz


    Draw
    Apols if this is mentioned before in this thread, but does anybody think that Gallas and Toure have been nothing short of brutal past few weeks? Almunia must be gettin the rosery beeds out pre every match

    Reina wasnt that poor against United. He's been very good lately, and apart from one or two CL performances and last years memorable Everton game he's been very very good


  • #567
    Mr Alan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,372 ✭✭✭✭Mr Alan


    United
    -Maschs sending off was a joke.
    -Granted he should not have gone to the ref cause everyone knows that Bennett is a joke and had a point to prove after getting a telling off over the Cole incident.
    -The FA and media will make Masch a scape-goat for all this "respect campaign" they have started. Suits them better to make a mental little argie the scapegoat as opposed to Gerrard,Rooney,Terry,Cole etc.
    -Liverpool need to grow a pair of balls in the PL, they took that defeat like a bunch of ****in arse-bandits tbh. Riise even swapped shirts with Rooney at the end and hugged him after the full time whistle. ****ing embarrasment. the fans hurt so much after a defeat like that, yet the players dont seem ****ing arsed. thats why its hard to be pissed off at masch, if all our players had the drive and passion he had, we'd be a different team.
    -Where were you Steven? Where were you when Torres was having the ****ing ****e knocked out of him? Where were you when a 23 year old Argie at the club just over a year was the only person who would stick up for him and confront the ref about how shote he was performing?
    -The Liverpool fans were excellent and the Torres tune (complete wit bouncing) sounded animal.
    -My views on the Utd fans, i cant put here.
    -ferguson-how much of a ****ing hypocrite are you? protection for Ronaldo? Yea, i'm sure your ****ing excellent centre halves, and anyone who got near him were not under order not to kick the ****e out of him. i dont mind it, its a mans game, but stop your ****ing crying when anyone dares go near your beloved little Ronaldo.

    anyway, ****e weekend.


  • #568
    Nalz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,464 ✭✭✭✭Nalz


    Draw
    Mr Alan wrote: »
    -Maschs sending off was a joke.
    -Granted he should not have gone to the ref cause everyone knows that Bennett is a joke and had a point to prove after getting a telling off over the Cole incident.
    -The FA and media will make Masch a scape-goat for all this "respect campaign" they have started. Suits them better to make a mental little argie the scapegoat as opposed to Gerrard,Rooney,Terry,Cole etc.
    -Liverpool need to grow a pair of balls in the PL, they took that defeat like a bunch of ****in arse-bandits tbh. Riise even swapped shirts with Rooney at the end and hugged him after the full time whistle. ****ing embarrasment. the fans hurt so much after a defeat like that, yet the players dont seem ****ing arsed. thats why its hard to be pissed off at masch, if all our players had the drive and passion he had, we'd be a different team.
    -Where were you Steven? Where were you when Torres was having the ****ing ****e knocked out of him? Where were you when a 23 year old Argie at the club just over a year was the only person who would stick up for him and confront the ref about how shote he was performing?
    -The Liverpool fans were excellent and the Torres tune (complete wit bouncing) sounded animal.
    -My views on the Utd fans, i cant put here.
    -ferguson-how much of a ****ing hypocrite are you? protection for Ronaldo? Yea, i'm sure your ****ing excellent centre halves, and anyone who got near him were not under order not to kick the ****e out of him. i dont mind it, its a mans game, but stop your ****ing crying when anyone dares go near your beloved little Ronaldo.

    anyway, ****e weekend.

    post of the week?


  • #569
    Mitch Connor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 49,324 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    Mr Alan wrote: »
    -Maschs sending off was a joke.
    -Granted he should not have gone to the ref cause everyone knows that Bennett is a joke and had a point to prove after getting a telling off over the Cole incident.
    -The FA and media will make Masch a scape-goat for all this "respect campaign" they have started. Suits them better to make a mental little argie the scapegoat as opposed to Gerrard,Rooney,Terry,Cole etc.
    -Liverpool need to grow a pair of balls in the PL, they took that defeat like a bunch of ****in arse-bandits tbh. Riise even swapped shirts with Rooney at the end and hugged him after the full time whistle. ****ing embarrasment. the fans hurt so much after a defeat like that, yet the players dont seem ****ing arsed. thats why its hard to be pissed off at masch, if all our players had the drive and passion he had, we'd be a different team.
    -Where were you Steven? Where were you when Torres was having the ****ing ****e knocked out of him? Where were you when a 23 year old Argie at the club just over a year was the only person who would stick up for him and confront the ref about how shote he was performing?
    -The Liverpool fans were excellent and the Torres tune (complete wit bouncing) sounded animal.
    -My views on the Utd fans, i cant put here.
    -ferguson-how much of a ****ing hypocrite are you? protection for Ronaldo? Yea, i'm sure your ****ing excellent centre halves, and anyone who got near him were not under order not to kick the ****e out of him. i dont mind it, its a mans game, but stop your ****ing crying when anyone dares go near your beloved little Ronaldo.

    anyway, ****e weekend.

    Sure it's only a game.


  • #570
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,914 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Draw
    Tauren wrote: »
    Sure it's only a game.

    Seriously, on a soccer message board? To a guy who spends his weekends (and presumably a huge chunk of his freetime and money) going over to the UK to follow his club? You should get warned for trolling.


  • Advertisement
  • #571
    BaZmO*
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,625 ✭✭✭✭BaZmO*


    Mr Alan wrote: »
    -My views on the Utd fans, i cant put here.
    Yeah that's right, Utd. fans "bad" Liverpool fans "good" :rolleyes:

    Mr Alan wrote: »
    -ferguson-how much of a ****ing hypocrite are you? protection for Ronaldo? Yea, i'm sure your ****ing excellent centre halves, and anyone who got near him were not under order not to kick the ****e out of him. i dont mind it, its a mans game, but stop your ****ing crying when anyone dares go near your beloved little Ronaldo.
    Ah he's a great manager though eh!?

    Mr Alan wrote: »
    anyway, ****e weekend.
    For Pool fans anyway!


Advertisement
Advertisement