Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

End of Nations - EU Takeover & the Lisbon Treaty

«1345

Comments

  • #2
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    3 minutes in - must say im intrigued. I'll keep you informed.


  • #3
    CCCP^
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,749 ✭✭✭CCCP^


    Jesus Christ Tony Blair as EU President...


  • #4
    humanji
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    Wait, Tony Blair is Jesus? F*ck me, politics just got interesting!


  • #5
    GhostInTheRuins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,011 ✭✭✭GhostInTheRuins


    I watched this last night but really don't know enough information about the treaty to know if what they're claiming is true.


  • #6
    Monotype
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,710 ✭✭✭Monotype


    Gasp! I think we're screwed.
    D.T. Jesus wrote: »
    I watched this last night but really don't know enough information about the treaty to know if what they're claiming is true.

    I think that's one of the major points. It's deliberately misleading and difficult to obtain information.


  • Advertisement
  • #7
    Mahatma coat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,869 ✭✭✭Mahatma coat


    watched most of this last night, crashed with about 10 min left, some very interestin points made in the video.

    so when we elect MEP's it is basicly pointless as they have little to no say in how Europe is governed, accordin to these guys those who are elected to represent us are vetoed by a bunch of civil servants who's job is to decide whether the legislation being put forward is good or bad, we dont get to question the civil servants, or even know their names.

    Ireland is the only country in europe having a referendum on the Lisbon treaty, but apparently france has already voted no to it in a previous incarnation.

    I think a single constitution for Europe is probably a goo thing, I dont like the look of this one tho.

    Qualified majority voting, well didnt we already concede this one when they forced the Nice Treaty to a revote, the way the video pitches it is exactly as was outlined in the No2Nice2 campaign, and the loss of our commisioner, tho y'll find that the population is so used to rollin over at this stage that this will pass, there will be a very hazy 'Just vote Yes, dont be askin Questions' campaign from the government and the usual bunch of 'Crazies' shouting out that we all need to open our eyes, which is true, but will be ignored by the masses in favour of the Govt's simple and catchy slogan


    3000 Workin Groups tho, thats an awful lot of Lizzards:eek:


  • #8
    meathstevie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,777 ✭✭✭meathstevie


    Folks, from a historical point of view : I don't realy understand what the big deal is with the power at "state" level being eroded. Even looking over the last couple of centuries we've had absolute monarchies, constitutional monarchies, republics, all sorts of dodgy dictatorships, etc, etc... .

    What I do know for a fact though is that Europe has never been as prosperous or stable as it has been since the conception of NATO at the end of WWII and the construction of a European supra-national structure since the 1950's. Of course there's a serious problem with a "democratic deficit" in the EU in relation to the role of the commission and it's relation with the parliament but that's nothing that can't be fixed. In a way there isn't even a democratic deficit depending on the angle you take because all EU-member governments are elected through democratic elections and the structure and powers of the EU are negotiated by these governments.

    Personally I'd reserve my worries for the extremely powerfull position a handfull of multinational companies and banks occupy. And as we all know they realy behave like deranged psychopaths for a couple of pennies more.


  • #9
    minidazzler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,650 ✭✭✭✭minidazzler


    My main problems with this is that
    a) It is just one more rung on the Ladder to a OWG (One World Government)
    b) It could have a very bad effect on out neutrality. Our boys should not die for something so pointless.


  • #10
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    minidazzler wrote: »
    My main problems with this is that
    a) It is just one more rung on the Ladder to a OWG (One World Government)
    b) It could have a very bad effect on out neutrality. Our boys should not die for something so pointless.

    If it's going to be OWG why do we need to be neutral?
    The nation state is a 19th century notion which does not serve us well any more. History like everything else moves on.

    Neutrality is an archaic convenience for governments not to have take any hard decisions.
    In the 21st century it is akin to sticking your head in the sand. We cannot opt out of life any more and it is infinitely preferable to be part than to jump up and down and shout "conspiracy".


  • #11
    bonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭bonkey


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Neutrality is an archaic convenience for governments not to have take any hard decisions.
    In the 21st century it is akin to sticking your head in the sand.
    So thats why the Swiss have unarmed soldiers acting as observers on the Korean border, and why they often act as the intermediary between the US and Iran....

    Its because they're ignoring the whole thing, sticking their head in the sand, avoiding any hard decisions and "opting out" of the world!!!!

    Sometimes, mediators are needed, and mediators cannot pick sides.

    Neutrality will become purely an 'archaic convenience' when there are no longer opposing sides.


  • Advertisement
  • #12
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,466 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    Why are FF and FG supporting this crock o' sh1te?


  • #13
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,851 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Why not? What's wrong with it?


  • #14
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,466 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    An unelected president of Europe for starters.


  • #15
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,851 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    The treaty would create no such position. The existing position of President of the European Council, often referred to as the "President-in-Office", which is rotated every six months between the member states, would instead be elected every two and a half years by a qualified majority of the European Council.

    In other words, the treaty converts an existing role from an unelected to an elected one.

    Next.


  • #16
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,466 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    However it is still not elected by the citizens of Europe which is the main issue imho. The European council is yet another unelected body. As stated earlier MEPs are a waste of time as they have no powers as the EU is really run by unelected civil servants.

    This is really a matter for politics. But a big NO vote will be coming from me and a good few others I should think in May/June/whenever.


  • #17
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,851 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Bond-007 wrote: »
    However it is still not elected by the citizens of Europe which is the main issue imho. The European council is yet another unelected body. As stated earlier MEPs are a waste of time as they have no powers as the EU is really run by unelected civil servants.
    As is so often the case, what I'm seeing here is someone voting "no" to the Lisbon Treaty on the grounds that although it's an improvement, it's an improvement to something they've already got a problem with, so they can't bring themselves to endorse the improvement.

    Now, maybe it's just me, but I don't see the logic in voting "no" to a treaty that will make the EU more democratic, when your problem with the EU is that it's not democratic enough.
    Bond-007 wrote: »
    This is really a matter for politics. But a big NO vote will be coming from me and a good few others I should think in May/June/whenever.
    There's already a thread on the topic in Politics, but if you want to discuss it there, you'll have to stick to the facts of the treaty itself rather than ill-informed scaremongering.


  • #18
    Jocksereire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 279 ✭✭Jocksereire


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    There's already a thread on the topic in Politics, .
    link?? i cant find it.


  • #19
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,851 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    It's here. I don't know why you couldn't find it, it's on the first page and clearly titled.

    Feel free to participate in it, but bear in mind that Politics is a strictly moderated forum. Note especially that any claims about the catastrophic consequences of the treaty must be supported with reference to the treaty itself. Note also that the thread is discussing the treaty specifically, and general EU-bashing is not acceptable.


  • #20
    Jocksereire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 279 ✭✭Jocksereire


    aha now i know why i cant find it.....im banned :D surely that ban should be lifted by now OB? ill be a good boy i promise!


  • #21
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,851 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    I'd forgotten that I had banned you. Considering the original ban was as a result of promoting conspiracy theories in Politics, I suggest you think carefully about what you post there in future.

    Oh, and next time you reply "You can piss off" to a ban notification, you can rest assured the ban will be permanent.


  • Advertisement
  • #22
    Trev M
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,840 ✭✭✭Trev M


    Way to wield that mouse of justice!:D


  • #23
    Ekancone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Ekancone


    Danuogma wrote: »
    End of Nations - EU Takeover & the Lisbon Treaty

    Essential viewing:

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4291770489472554607&hl=en

    Is there really eerie music to go with the movie and lots of shots fading in and out on the face of Tony Blair? Any connotaions of Nazism? Are the Jews involved?


  • #24
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,851 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    I tried to watch it, I really did. Three minutes in, I'd lost count of the factual errors and blatant lies. I can't suffer through any more.


  • #25
    Ekancone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Ekancone


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    I tried to watch it, I really did. Three minutes in, I'd lost count of the factual errors and blatant lies. I can't suffer through any more.

    Is it that bad? I watched that Loose Change movie before. Not only factually inaccurate but the 'evidence' contrdicts itself over and over again.


  • #26
    jetski
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 820 ✭✭✭jetski


    Firm no from me.


    if you dont have time to watch this whole video, atleast watch 1:18 till 1:21


  • #27
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,851 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    The bit about the Parliament holding a vote on whether to respect the outcome of the Irish referendum?

    The parliament voted against that proposal, because it knew perfectly well that it had absolutely no authority to make such a determination. The outcome of the Irish referendum is binding, whatever the Parliament says. Thankfully, the majority of the MEPs realised this and voted against the ridiculous motion.

    The only reason for the motion to have been put forward in the first place was to be able to say that it was voted down, so that gullible people would believe that the Parliament was trying to deny Ireland's right to a vote.

    If this is your reason for a "firm no", I respectfully suggest that you should do a hell of a lot more research than simply watching a blatantly biased video that's packed with lies and falsehoods.


  • #28
    jetski
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 820 ✭✭✭jetski


    LOL @ oscarBravo


  • #29
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,851 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Wow. I'm convinced.


  • #30
    jetski
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 820 ✭✭✭jetski


    goodman yourself


  • Advertisement
  • #31
    Ekancone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Ekancone


    A classical CT debate...


Advertisement