ATH4: Guest host Danger Dave

Fozzy · 19-02-2008 01:36AM

I believe that the Fabulous Moolah has had the greatest impact on wrestling, but it has been a negative impact

Back in the '40s and early '50s, the biggest name in women's wrestling was Mildred Burke. Women's matches were treated much like men's matches, there wasn't the sideshow spectacle of it that you see in WWE today. For various reasons that I don't need to go into here, Mildred found herself forced out of the business and Moolah came to hold, and more importantly own, the main women's title in America

As the owner of the women's belt she worked all the major territories and she was able to use her power to control the other women wrestlers. She booked practically all the women wrestlers for shows around the country and she took a cut of their pay. If a woman wrestler didn't like that then they weren't going to get booked. They also had no chance of getting the belt

In the days of Mildred Burke women's wrestling was a draw. She was a talented worker herself and the women getting booked were talented workers. In the days of Moolah women's wrestling became less of a draw and the women getting booked were there because they were willing to work for Moolah, not because they were the most talented

I feel that Moolah had the greatest impact because women's wrestling has never recovered in America to being the sort of draw that it was in the '40s

Cactus Col · 19-02-2008 10:40AM

I'm going with Trish Stratus.

The womens division in the nineties was a joke. To such a degree that the championship title in wwe was deactivated twice during that decade. The title was reactivated in the late nineties, mainly as a tool to promote Sable. But still, nobody cared about the belt, and it's greatest moments was spent as a prop for the McMahon Helmsly faction, around the waist of Stephanie.

Trish Stratus arrived in wwe in 2000, as a manager. As most divas eventually do, she was forced to compete in ring. And thanks to training from Dave Finlay amongst others, she became very competent.
With Trish, wwe finally had a female wrestler that the company could get behind and push. Beautiful, charasmatic, and a decent wrestler, Trish (along with Lita and Molly Holly) made us care about womens wrestling again, and made us realise that it wasn't all about T & A, that there are women out there who will, and do, work hard. Her popularity levels were huge and higher than many top male wrestlers at the time.

When she retired from the ring, she has left a huge void in her place, one that the wwe have yet to fill.

Bubs101 · 19-02-2008 12:41PM

Sorry about the delay, here goes Lita.

As Cactus Col said, the womens division in the 90's was a joke but I would attribute that to Chyna, what's the point of having her on the belt if she's big enough to take on JJ and Eddie when all her competitors are jokes who enter bikini competitins with paint. That's why Lita had the biggest impact. She was a talented female wrestler who could do the high flying moves that were so popular yet unseen in the womens division. You believed that Lita could beat Chyna fairly because of her technichal abilities. In fact I would trace the improvement of the technichal aspect of women's wrestling back to Lita as the popularity she gained from it made it an aspect that the WWE couldn't ignore anymore. She became the first woman (along with Trish) to headline Raw in what is by miles the most memorable feud in the division, she would often get in the ring with the likes of Edge and Christian, The Dudleys and T&A in the way that no woman like her (e.g. not shaped like Xena) had done before even going as far as challenging Dean Malenko for the Light Heavyweight title and she was a mulitple time champion

She was also arguabley the best female manager of all time. In her first appearance she got more of a reaction than her client, Esse Rios, despite the fact he won a belt on his debut. The Hardy Boyz were so over that they even appeared in Rolling Stone magazine, needless to say, with their manager Lita.She was so popular she went on a 5 year face run before turning heel with Edge to provide not only one of the most memorable feuds between Matt Hardy and Edge and Lita but give the biggest ratings boost a manger has ever given the promotion getting it a 5.2 rating, the highest it had gotten all year, when it was constantly drawing 3s

I feel that Lita had the biggest impact on female wrestling because she revolutionised the technichal aspect while setting new records in the more traditional, managerial position

Rjd2 · 19-02-2008 03:45PM

Right all the choices I wanted are gone so Id have to say Trish for the simple reason despite the fact that she was absurdly beautiful and fitted into every negative cliché of female wrestlers she could genuinely hold her own in the ring. She could play face and heel excellently and her scrwewjob of Y2J was one of the best moments of what many agrees was an awesome Mania, I know the likes f Maria are about know may rival her in beauty but none of them hold a candle to her in the ring and this emphasised by the fact that she had total respect from the crowd. She may have being pretty but my god she was talented.

Danger_Dave · 19-02-2008 03:51PM

Remember people, you can decrease peoples score, or increase your own by arguing someones post and defending your own. Will be few hours before next question so plenty of time.

P.S Just to let you know Round 5 will be a question which will require a long answer, but its the last round and looking at how the scores in round 2 are shaping up it may well be close. It will also not just include the WWE

Bounty Hunter · 19-02-2008 04:44PM

Bubs101 wrote: »

Sorry about the delay, here goes Lita.

As Cactus Col said, the womens division in the 90's was a joke but I would attribute that to Chyna, what's the point of having her on the belt if she's big enough to take on JJ and Eddie when all her competitors are jokes who enter bikini competitins with paint.

If I recall currectly Chyna was only ever womens champion once and that was in 2001 (not the 90s) so the existence of such a sorry state of womens division in the WWE during that time could hardley be atrributed to Chyna. However as you say most of the women were "jokes who enter bikini competitions" and Chyna did show that women in wrestling didnt have to fit this "Diva" sterotype.

dont know if that will be taking as countering your arguement or defending my own but felt i had to say it.

Bubs101 · 19-02-2008 05:33PM

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

If I recall currectly Chyna was only ever womens champion once and that was in 2001 (not the 90s) so the existence of such a sorry state of womens division in the WWE during that time could hardley be atrributed to Chyna. However as you say most of the women were "jokes who enter bikini competitions" and Chyna did show that women in wrestling didnt have to fit this "Diva" sterotype.

dont know if that will be taking as countering your arguement or defending my own but felt i had to say it.

I didn't mention the number of title reigns Chyna had. What I was aluding to was the fact that to have a woman's champion who wasn't Chyna at the time was a joke. Having the most dominant diva not challenging competitively for the belt made a mockery of it as if the company was saying it was below her and it took Lita (and to a lesser extent Trish) to give the belt some respect.

I would also object to theyour statement that Chyna did show that women in wrestling didnt have to fit this "Diva" sterotype. Much like Amazing Kong in TNA now, she wasn't treated like the others and any of the extraordinary things that she did couldn't be applied to the other women because she is so physically different.

Danger_Dave · 19-02-2008 07:22PM

Round 3 Q: In the Wake of No way Out, The Big show has returned , he looks fit, strong and ready to wrestle. Now at the moment he's Feuding with Mayweather. This Storyline will finish at the conclusion of Wrestlemania and he will need to move to a specific brand .Name what brand would you insert him into why ?, who would he feud with and why ?

Round 2 Scores
1. Fozzy (18)
2. Cactus Col (16)
3. Bubs 101 (16)
4. Bounty Hunter (15)
5. RjD2 (15)
6. Machismo Fan (No Score Yet)

Leader Board After Round 2
1. Bubs 101 (34)
2. Fozzy (33)
3. Bounty Hunter (32)
4. Cactus Col (32)
5. RjD2 (31)
6. Machismo Fan (15)

Fozzy : Good answer, I myself when hearing of her induction into the hall of fame and her death few months back, looked up on her to see what all the fuss was about. From Reading a personal problem with her ex husband also affected the way womens wrestling was directed from the 40's onwards, and that fact that she monopilized the belt and prevented anyone challenging, creating a void of any real competition or surprise for fans. Short Answer, but long ones are not always the best. If you had included the part with her Ex and how they fought over the womens wrestling . I would have found it very hard not to give a 20.

Bounty Hunter: Her career in the last period of time with the wwe was weak , partly down to the WWE, but also because of her, Due to the contract negotiations between the two parties at the time of her leaving. There is also an argument that Chyna had a damaging effect on womens wrestling when she was womens champion. She had been pushed to much in mens wrestling , which gave no other women wrestlers credibility to fight her in the division. Which damaged womens bouts on Raw/Smackdown and PPVS as in "ahh we know Chyna will beat (insert female wrestler) unless theres interference" . Even when she fought women in single bouts with no title on the line, it was not credible. Although she had an impact on wrestling. It was a mixed bag of Good and Bad. She broke the mold when wrestling men, but she gave nothing to the womens division.

RjD2:Same as an other Contestants choice but you did elaborate different points. If you had Delved deeper into her heel turns and her managerial skills with T+A , or her feud with the Dudley's which would have made it much different to Cactus Answer, if you just gave even one more paragraph to it, i would have easily scored it higher, the points were there you just different elaborate on them. Short answer are good, however they need some substance.

P.S Im going to Give Machismo Fan 3 more hours to post his response to Round 2 before i declare him late for the round, and have to penalize him. Good luck to everyone in round 3 !

Bubs101 · 19-02-2008 08:23PM

Round 3 Q: In the Wake of No way Out, The Big show has returned , he looks fit, strong and ready to wrestle. Now at the moment he's Feuding with Mayweather. This Storyline will finish at the conclusion of Wrestlemania and he will need to move to a specific brand .Name what brand would you insert him into why ?, who would he feud with and why ?

Raw, it picks itself. If the Big Show were to move to either ECW or Smackdown we would be stuck enduring matches between him, Big Daddy V, Khali, Kane and Mark Henry. I couldn't imagine anything worse.Also, Raw is actually lacking in menacing Giants at the moment and considering how good Show looks at the moment there's nothing to say he would detract from the technichal aspect there.

As to who i would feud him with, I think he could have a great Intercontinental title programme with Jeff while actually restoring some credibility to the title while bringing it back into the spotlight. Since it looks like Jeff has fallen out of the title picture for the time being it's clearly important to keep his momentum up until he re-enters. ATM it looks like he will be in the MITB match or maybe even an Intercontinental programme with Kennedy (what I personally think will happen) but either way, he should impress and come out as hot as before even more-so if he wins the MITB. Big Show will be coming out of the most high profile match so he should have a massive amount of momentum behind him as well.

The feud would fit well. You would have a hot face versus a heel with alot of heat (assuming it stays), the traditional big giant versus tenacious high flyer feud which has worked so well for Show in the past. Show also knows what's good for business and is apparently eager to put others over him (if what Heyman said in the sun regarding Punk and the ECW elimination chamber is true) so he'd have no problem putting Hardy over.

As for how and why they'd feud, here's how I'd do it. Have Hardy win MITB having not defended the IC title in the period between now and Mania. On the first Raw after Mania have Hardy come out, talk about how he's going to use it etc. when Show's music hits. Show claims that Hardy has been avoiding defending his Intercontinental title and challenges him that night for it. Show wins by cheating. Then have a programme to Backlash which would involve Show refusing to let Hardy have a rematch unless he puts his briefcase on the line as well. Big Show gets Shane, who was with him at NWO and is still with him now, to let him pick his match. he picks a three stages of hell match with none of Hardy's specialities. No ladder match, no TLC. Instead it'll be a Cage, hell in a Cell and lumberjack combo. Hardy wins 2-0 cleanly hitting a Swanton of the Cage or something along those lines and comes off hot enough to challenge the champion at the next PPV. Show gets rewarded with the IC title a couple of months down the line

Bounty Hunter · 20-02-2008 10:45PM

Round 3 Q: In the Wake of No way Out, The Big show has returned , he looks fit, strong and ready to wrestle. Now at the moment he's Feuding with Mayweather. This Storyline will finish at the conclusion of Wrestlemania and he will need to move to a specific brand .Name what brand would you insert him into why ?, who would he feud with and why ?

Having Show face Mayweather is like the big man himself Huge. It like Vince vs Trump will get huge attension from the Media and the fans alike. However I really dont expect Big Show to win at Mania because again just like with Trump WWE wins just by having Mayweather involved in a major storyline building to a bout at WM and a big star with a big ego like Mayweather and an undefeated record albeit in a different sport is bound to want to win in what is likely to be his only WWE match.

Because of this I think it is very important that Big Show next faces an opponent that is both a big name (so as to capitalise on Show still being in the post WM spotlight) and someone who is willing to lose. I think two back to back loses would be terrible for Show on his return and would kill any momentum the big man would have from both that return and despite losing from being in such a big WM match.

Instead I would have BigShow feud with... Batista

and this feud would take place on.... Raw

in recent times Show has spent the majority of time on either Smackdown or ECW where he was champion until he left (well technically Lashley held the title for about 3days before Show left), there are more new feuds for him on Raw and old ones that the WWE's new fans would not remember if they ever say them. Raw is also devoid of a quality Monster heel character atm with Snitsky and Umaga nearest to filling that void. Meanwhile ECW/SD have numerous(Kali, Henry, big daddy V etc..).

How I would do it:
I would have Batista face his friend and Mentor (and obviously play this up) Rick Flair at Wrestlemania and defeat him ending the Nature boys Career. He would shake flairs hands with him though before joining the rest of the roster making a guard of honour along the ramp and on the titantron who clap the legend as he leaves WM and competitive wrestling. Batista is on a huge high coming off a Major Wrestlemania match and still very much so a face in the eyes of the fans. Meanwhile Big Show is enraged having lost in a major WM match and is filling the aformention monster heel position. then on Raw the 2008 WWE Draft would be announce for the following week. On all three shows Big Show is courted as a free agent and someone who can personally choose where he is drafted to. While he is on SD discussing contract possibilites with Teddy Long(he is demanding a bigger contract than anyone on SD to sign up) he has an altercation with Batista who claimes that if he wants to be the champ on SD again that he would have to go through him first.

Then on Raw the big Shock draft of the night is Batista to Raw, his music hits and the crowd go nuts. He starts speaking about how despite the fact that he was sad to see Ric Flairs Career end at WM his belief in himself and confidence is sky high after that defeating Natch. He then goes on to state that this new self-belief will be key not if but when he becomes the World Champion here on Raw.... Big Shows Music hits.... after hearing this Show comes out and anounces that he has just signed a Raw contract and that if Batista wants to be champion on Raw that he would have to go through him first. He is then joined by his manager Shane-O-Mac who announces he has just negotiated with Raw GM William Regal that it will be The Big Show vs Batista.

This would keep both men occupied while out of the title picture for now yet still keep them in a very high profile match. It would be a match that it think Show should win then prehaps have Batista win a rematch.

Bounty Hunter · 20-02-2008 10:52PM

Bubs101 wrote: »

As to who i would feud him with, I think he could have a great Intercontinental title programme with Jeff while actually restoring some credibility to the title while bringing it back into the spotlight. Since it looks like Jeff has fallen out of the title picture for the time being it's clearly important to keep his momentum up until he re-enters. ATM it looks like he will be in the MITB match or maybe even an Intercontinental programme with Kennedy (what I personally think will happen) but either way, he should impress and come out as hot as before even more-so if he wins the MITB. Big Show will be coming out of the most high profile match so he should have a massive amount of momentum behind him as well.

The feud would fit well. You would have a hot face versus a heel with alot of heat (assuming it stays), the traditional big giant versus tenacious high flyer feud which has worked so well for Show in the past. Show also knows what's good for business and is apparently eager to put others over him (if what Heyman said in the sun regarding Punk and the ECW elimination chamber is true) so he'd have no problem putting Hardy over.

As for how and why they'd feud, here's how I'd do it. Have Hardy win MITB having not defended the IC title in the period between now and Mania. On the first Raw after Mania have Hardy come out, talk about how he's going to use it etc. when Show's music hits. Show claims that Hardy has been avoiding defending his Intercontinental title and challenges him that night for it. Show wins by cheating. Then have a programme to Backlash which would involve Show refusing to let Hardy have a rematch unless he puts his briefcase on the line as well. Big Show gets Shane, who was with him at NWO and is still with him now, to let him pick his match. he picks a three stages of hell match with none of Hardy's specialities. No ladder match, no TLC. Instead it'll be a Cage, hell in a Cell and lumberjack combo. Hardy wins 2-0 cleanly hitting a Swanton of the Cage or something along those lines and comes off hot enough to challenge the champion at the next PPV. Show gets rewarded with the IC title a couple of months down the line

Why i wouldent have Jeff Feud with Show is that i dont believe that Show will win at WM for the reasons ive outlined and 2 back to back defeats upon his return would be very detremental to his own momentum and character especially if done as you suggest with Jeff winning both falls. It would be great for Jeff no doubt but would make Show look weak. Meanwhile if Show beat Hardy it would ruin all the good work the WWE have done building him into a genuine contender.

Bubs101 · 20-02-2008 11:30PM

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

Why i wouldent have Jeff Feud with Show is that i dont believe that Show will win at WM for the reasons ive outlined and 2 back to back defeats upon his return would be very detremental to his own momentum and character especially if done as you suggest with Jeff winning both falls. It would be great for Jeff no doubt but would make Show look weak. Meanwhile if Show beat Hardy it would ruin all the good work the WWE have done building him into a genuine contender.

2 rounds in a row insuiating I said something that I didn't say. I NEVER said Show would win, just that he would be coming out hot, which he would be, extremely hot. Second, I don't think Show would stay at the top for long. Whenever he held the belt he dropped it in a month or so. He's not a Main Eventer, upper Midcard at best. He's been pushed there time and time again and failed. Hardy on the other hand is attracting alot of praise for his time there and a victory over Show in his first proper rassling feud back, especially, in just 2 falls would cement his place there. Also, keep in mind that Show wouldn't come out too bad. He'd have won a title and lost to a man who has beaten Hunter, Orton and HBK clean. Hardly the worst thing in the world. It would be good for business in the long term and it would be good to watch which is more than I could say for a Show Batista match, how could you wish that on anyone

Bounty Hunter · 20-02-2008 11:43PM

i didnt insinuate you suggested Show would win i refered to Show not winning (WM) in my post hense my saying for "the reasons i outlined" nor did i suggest he would be at the top or hold the title. ive already counterd your post though so now I will not say anything further that could be taken as countering your initial post.

Danger_Dave · 20-02-2008 11:55PM

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

i didnt insinuate you suggested Show would win i refered to Show not winning (WM) in my post hense my saying for "the reasons i outlined" nor did i suggest he would be at the top or hold the title. ive already counterd your post though so now I will not say anything further that could be taken as countering your initial post.

You can only counter him once BH, This is your second time to do it, you have directly posted a comment towards him . Which is outside the rules of ATH

Fozzy · 20-02-2008 11:56PM

Big Show's going to have a lot of steam coming out of Wrestlemania due to the amount of "plubicity" (™Mayweather) he'll be getting. They could stick him on Raw, but with the amount of top stars they've got now I think that he'd get lost in the shuffle, or someone else would. Realistically, there's six or seven credible title holders on Raw (Cena, Orton, Jericho, HHH, HBK, Jeff, maybe JBL). On Smackdown though, there's only four (Edge, Taker, Batista, Rey), and one of them is injured now. Big Show said that he's coming back to be a champion, so I'd have him go for the Smackdown title

I don't see ECW as a good destination for him as it really is treated as an afterthought by WWE. Plus if he were on Smackdown he could just show up there if needed

Ideally that would mean that either Undertaker wins the title or Edge retains and a triple threat is set up, as it looks like they're going with Big Show as a heel. If I were in charge I would have Undertaker win and have a rematch on Smackdown. This is when Big Show would come down and destroy Undertaker, setting up a feud between the two

The reason I would go with this feud, apart from just continuing on what Big Show said his intentions were, is that Big Show and Undertaker work well together. People have praised Taker for bringing out the best in some big men over the last couple of years and the good thing here is that Big Show is actually a very talented big guy

A win over Big Show in his first title defence would be a great way to kick off Taker's title run. They could have a very good match and with the weight loss by Big Show it could mean that Undertaker could hit the tombstone, which would send the fans crazy

The handy thing about having him on Smackdown too is that when Rey's healthy again he'll be there for him to feud with

Bounty Hunter · 20-02-2008 11:58PM

Danger_Dave wrote: »

You can only counter him once BH, This is your second time to do it, you have directly posted a comment towards him . Which is outside the rules of ATH

youd think id know better:o

Cactus Col · 21-02-2008 12:44PM

Round 3 Q: In the Wake of No way Out, The Big show has returned , he looks fit, strong and ready to wrestle. Now at the moment he's Feuding with Mayweather. This Storyline will finish at the conclusion of Wrestlemania and he will need to move to a specific brand .Name what brand would you insert him into why ?, who would he feud with and why ?

The Big Show needs to go to ECW.

Why does he need to go there?
The same reason he was put there originally. The same reasons Kurt Angle, RVD, and Chris Benoit were put into ECW. The brand needs at least one legitimate main eventer. ECW has done a great job in building CM Punk as it's top face, it would be fair to say that CM Punk is the face of ECW. Unfortunately heels on ecw have faired very badly, with any challenger to CM Punk falling short to such a degree that Chavo Geurrero had to be brought in from smackdown
for Punk to have credible opposition. Chavo Geurrero, who despite doing well in his current role, would best be described as having a lacklustre wwe career.

With a legitemate top heel to face ECW's top face, the ECW title might actually start to mean something.

Who would he feud with?
Well as previously mentioned, ECW's top face, CM Punk. Punk will win at mania, causing a slight injury to Chavo. Show would debut on ECW by squashing and destroying Colin Delaney, and then announcing he wants to challenge for the ECW championship. Seeking revenge for his protege's squash Tommy Dreamer would want to fight show. So at the next ppv we get a 3 way dance extreme rules match for the ECW title. Show wins after Chavo causes an interference.

So Show will now feud with Tommy Dreamer for the title, while Chavo keeps CM Punk busy. Show will go on a fairly dominant run as ECW champion, having short feuds with tommy dreamer, Kane, and balls Mahoney. While CM Punk on the other hand feuds with Chavo, and Shelton Benjamin. Come Summerslam Punk will be back in the title hunt, and a series of fights with Big Show will happen, starting at summerslam and ending at around Cyber Sunday (possibly no mercy). Big Show will at first dominate the feud, however, Punk will rebound and eventually win back the title. Clearly establishing Punk as a Main Eventer on a par with those of Smackdown and Raw.

By association show can help to build new heels for punk to face, and slowly start putting over ecw's faces as well. Giving the brand a much healthier balance.

Cactus Col · 21-02-2008 01:16PM

Bubbs: I don't see why it would be a good idea to kill off Big Show's momentum straight away with a loss so quickly. Especially if it's a match with Jeff Hardy. This would effectively kill off Big Show's main event status.

Fozzy: Same thing with Bubbs idea I think you're having big show far too quickly. This is a multi time World Champion, he is returning to wwe hot. He should not have his momentum killed straight away with a loss. Quite the opposite, he should be given several big wins. Big Show would then just become one of the many monsters littering the ring around the undertaker.

Bounty Hunter: My problem with your scenario is that Raw is just too top heavy to support Big Show for long. With both John Cena and Triple H, a third main event face like Batista would get lost in the mix.

Fozzy · 21-02-2008 02:49PM

Cactus Col wrote: »

Fozzy: Same thing with Bubbs idea I think you're having big show far too quickly. This is a multi time World Champion, he is returning to wwe hot. He should not have his momentum killed straight away with a loss. Quite the opposite, he should be given several big wins. Big Show would then just become one of the many monsters littering the ring around the undertaker.

It's the Big Show, I don't think that a loss to the Undertaker for the title is going to harm him a whole lot. It won't be straight away either, Backlash will be ten weeks after his return. He's going to be built up as a monster before Wrestlemania and again after Wrestlemania

I think that putting him on ECW would go a lot further in killing his momentum. ECW has been treated in a way where the fans are conditioned not to care about it. It gets a quarter of the audience of the other two shows. Plus, their main problem is a lack of faces, not heels. Punk is the only credible face title holder there. The fans don't buy Tommy Dreamer as a title challenger. Stevie Richards might get a title push soon but apart from that there's no faces. Sticking Big Show in there as a heel will only hurt the potential of guys like Elijah Burke and Shelton Benjamin who deserve a run with the ECW title

Cactus Col · 21-02-2008 03:29PM

Fozzy wrote: »

I think that putting him on ECW would go a lot further in killing his momentum. ECW has been treated in a way where the fans are conditioned not to care about it. It gets a quarter of the audience of the other two shows. Plus, their main problem is a lack of faces, not heels. Punk is the only credible face title holder there. The fans don't buy Tommy Dreamer as a title challenger. Stevie Richards might get a title push soon but apart from that there's no faces. Sticking Big Show in there as a heel will only hurt the potential of guys like Elijah Burke and Shelton Benjamin who deserve a run with the ECW title

You are right, ECW has been treated badly, but that does not mean it will be in future. I'm basing my arguement on the assumption that WWE will do try its best for all its brand.

Punk has already defeated burke a load of times in defence or his title. The same with Miz and Morrison. I agree that the faces on ecw haven't fared much better.

The notion that dreamer could go straight into a title feud isn't really that far fetched. He is an ECW original, a former ECW champion. But the point of using him isn't to make him a main eventer, but to keep Big Show occupied as the rest of the ECW roster consolodates, and grows stronger. Both Face and Heel.

Bubs101 · 21-02-2008 03:43PM

Cactus Col wrote: »

Bubbs: I don't see why it would be a good idea to kill off Big Show's momentum straight away with a loss so quickly. Especially if it's a match with Jeff Hardy. This would effectively kill off Big Show's main event status.

.

I actually built on his momentum by giving him a title on the first night after Mania but I see what you mean by first loss in a feud and it's a fair point, if you see the Big Show as a main event star, which I don't on Raw. He'd be about 6th in the pecking order behind HHH, Cena, Orton, HBK and Jericho and that's with his momentum. Hardy on the other hand has made a legitimite case to have his place cemented and defeating the big show in 2 straight falls, in his specialist matches would do that. I don't think pushing Big Show to Main event status on Raw over someone like Hardy (who he'd have to skip over) is in their best interest and I think moving him to ECW/ Smackdown would be stupid because they share 3 monster heels and 3 monster-ish faces between them which would make for terrible wrestling, so I would sacrifice him for Hardy

Fozzy · 21-02-2008 04:14PM

As I'm the only person who's said I'd put him on Smackdown so far, I'm just wondering what you'd all do when Rey gets back to full health. Would you just ignore the ready made feud with Big Show, move Rey to Raw or ECW or move Big Show after just six months or so?

Consider that a counter to everyone but Cactus Col, as I've already countered him

Bounty Hunter · 21-02-2008 04:40PM

Cactus Col wrote: »

Bounty Hunter: My problem with your scenario is that Raw is just too top heavy to support Big Show for long. With both John Cena and Triple H, a third main event face like Batista would get lost in the mix.

the way I suggested both Batista and Big Show would end up on Raw was as part of a post WM 2008 Draft talent from Raw would obviously have to also go the other way, also Triple H is more of a tweener imo, hugely over but portrayed with a i dont give a fup attitude ala SCSA, he (HHH) is also quite likely to turn heel in the future.

Fozzy wrote: »

As I'm the only person who's said I'd put him on Smackdown so far, I'm just wondering what you'd all do when Rey gets back to full health. Would you just ignore the ready made feud with Big Show, move Rey to Raw or ECW or move Big Show after just six months or so?

Consider that a counter to everyone but Cactus Col, as I've already countered him

Simply put I would have Rey vs Show as an interpromotional match-up. Rey could return during Big Shows rematch with Batista at Judgement day costing him the victory and leading to their interpromotional grudge match at One Night Stand.

Danger_Dave · 21-02-2008 05:18PM

Cactus Col wrote: »

You are right, ECW has been treated badly, but that does not mean it will be in future. I'm basing my arguement on the assumption that WWE will do try its best for all its brand.

Punk has already defeated burke a load of times in defence or his title. The same with Miz and Morrison. I agree that the faces on ecw haven't fared much better.

The notion that dreamer could go straight into a title feud isn't really that far fetched. He is an ECW original, a former ECW champion. But the point of using him isn't to make him a main eventer, but to keep Big Show occupied as the rest of the ECW roster consolodates, and grows stronger. Both Face and Heel.

This counts as a second reply to fozzy's answer on this question, which is outside of the rules of ATH, so you and Bounty Hunter will be accordingly marked.

P.S ill will post the fourth question and the score board for round 3 in a few hours. Will be tough round to mark with all the replys

Fozzy · 21-02-2008 05:48PM

Danger_Dave wrote: »

This counts as a second reply to fozzy's answer on this question, which is outside of the rules of ATH, so you and Bounty Hunter will be accordingly marked.

It wasn't really, maybe I should have done it in two separate posts. My first paragraph was my response to Cactus Col's counter and my second paragraph was my counter to him. Cactus Col only replied to my counter of him, not to my first response

Cactus Col · 21-02-2008 05:53PM

... maybe I misunderstood the rules there ... but I meant that reply as a defence to Fozzy's counter .... which I thought was allowed.

I didn't attack his original argument a second time, or his defence of my counter.

Danger_Dave · 21-02-2008 06:55PM

*you can only counter an arguement once, although you can counter as many different peoples arguements as much as you want (but only once each). if someone's defense of their arguement isnt good it will count against them plus someone else might continue to question it in your place.

Guys if you could keep countering people counters it would be like every other thread on this board, this rule is in place to prevent constant re posting.

P.S This round is Close !!! Im going to hold on on posting the next question til around 9 tonight because boards has been going crashing/ being slow for last few hours, Rjd2 Still to comment, so we'll give a few more hours. Also its my birthday so i need to eat cake and drink beer

Everyone in the hunt in round 4 ! .

Danger_Dave · 21-02-2008 07:02PM

Double post

Bubs101 · 21-02-2008 09:05PM

Fozzy wrote: »

As I'm the only person who's said I'd put him on Smackdown so far, I'm just wondering what you'd all do when Rey gets back to full health. Would you just ignore the ready made feud with Big Show, move Rey to Raw or ECW or move Big Show after just six months or so?

Consider that a counter to everyone but Cactus Col, as I've already countered him

I always assumed that Rey would be part of the feud with Mayweather, effectively at his side for the feud and maybe even "training" mayweather to wrestle but even if he's not I don't see any problem with ignoring it. It'd be 6 weeks since he did it and considering what happened immediately afterwards and how big it was, most people will have forgotten about it. Also, I don't think Rey has even finished with Vicki yet. The chokeslam was just a way to get Mayweather involved and I think you're making too much of it. Also, I'd never have Show on Smackdown because of all of the monster v monster matches you'd get in the long run and Rey is the too big of a draw there to move over

Bounty Hunter · 21-02-2008 09:13PM

btw Dave i never mark people down for 2nd replys i just point it out so the topic doesent go off topic with people arguing among themselves. Im not just saying this as im one of the two people, but your guest host so if you wanna mark down for this putting your own spin on preceedings go ahead.

ATH4: Guest host Danger Dave

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