Why Don't Irish Football Fans Support Other Countries?

Mr Alan · 06-02-2008 12:35PM #1

good point.

gimmick · 06-02-2008 12:36PM

Disclaimer : This is not a pro eL rant, or an anti FAI, or anti foreign football diatribe.

This is a valid question. After years of hearing the tired, boring cop out from Irish people wearing English club jersies that they don't support a local team because the standard is too poor, the facilities aint great, the organisation os amatuer etc etc etc, I just wonder why the same does not apply to the national team?

Lets look at the facts :

Ireland have not been involved in anything even approaching an exciting game in years. (Arguably since World Cup 2002. Losing to such teams as Cyprus, and heroic last minute victories over San Marino playing dreadful football. In fact, since 1987, only one manager has done anything like playing nice football, and that was Mick McCarthy, and even that was turgid most of the time.)

The FAI have relied on other organisations to help them out of the fact that they don't have a good enough stadium to host international football.

They cannot seem to appoint a new manager. (In fact this whole situation is now a farce given the latest rumour that its John Delaney, and not the 3 wise men, who was the one who approached Trappatoni, therefore making the 3 wise mens role utterly pointless.)

If an eircom league team had these sort of problems, people would be saying that they are fully justified in not supporting a club, and lets be honest about it - rightly so.

Now I know people will answer my question by saying "national pride" etc, which is a rational answer. But why the double standard then?

The_B_Man · 06-02-2008 12:40PM

IF u were a pool/man u/chelsea/arsenal supporter and the club started to go into turmoil, would you stop supporting them and start supporting the opposition?

Any Leeds fans on here can tell ya no!!

gimmick · 06-02-2008 12:42PM

Man U fans breaking away to support FC United Of Manchester?

Odd that Mr Alans reply is before my initial post. How that happen?

mike65 · 06-02-2008 12:42PM

Your club is for life - your country is up for grabs!

Mike.

_blank_ · 06-02-2008 12:43PM

gimmick wrote: »

Odd that Mr Alans reply is before my initial post. How that happen?

He has a time machine.

event · 06-02-2008 12:44PM

The_B_Man wrote: »

IF u were a pool/man u/chelsea/arsenal supporter and the club started to go into turmoil, would you stop supporting them and start supporting the opposition?

Any Leeds fans on here can tell ya no!!

thats exactly it

so things arent going great so you support someone else?

LuckyLloyd · 06-02-2008 12:48PM

Because Ireland are a bad team at the top level, and will remain at the top level. Therefore, they play against good teams - and a run of success (if it happens) will get them to the big show (WC, EC) and it is not completely inconceivable.

A bad eircom league club is a bad club at a bad level in a bad league. And it would take a miraculous run of success to get into the big show (champions league group stages) and it is hard to see happening soon.

Plus, people will at least remember 2002 (and 94, 90, 88 depending on how old you are). The buzz that came to the country during those tournaments and the feel good factor they created was truly spectacular. When (if ever) was the last time that a domestic league team created anything remotely similar?

Simple. If Bohs use the money correctly and identify and implement a good plan over the next 20 years things may change to some extent.

_blank_ · 06-02-2008 12:49PM

event wrote: »

thats exactly it

so things arent going great so you support someone else?

No, I think people are missing gimmick's point tbh.

He's not saying stop support Ireland and go for someone else.

He's saying "why didn't people choose to support a different countyr, from the start"

Because the reason they give for not supporting Bohs, Cork City, Sligo Rovers etc is that the facilities are shíte, standard is piss poor, too far to get to games etc etc.

Now, surely the same applies to the Ireland team also?

Landsdowne, and previously Dalyer are hovels.

Ireland never played the most attractive football.

I'm sure there are people who travelled from god knows where in ireland to see the team playing in Dublin.

_blank_ · 06-02-2008 12:50PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

When (if ever) was the last time that a domestic league team created anything remotely similar?

Have you forgotten Shelbourne already

LuckyLloyd · 06-02-2008 12:51PM

DesF wrote: »

Have you forgotten Shelbourne already

Des, went to all the home games for the two years they went close. It's not the same thing.

Peyton Manning · 06-02-2008 12:53PM

Well from my own experience, and it may apply to others, I supported the team I was first exposed to and thats Man Utd. They were playing Liverool, and because my brothers (who support Pool) were always assholes to me, I backed for United. Never looked back.

Ireland were the first national team I was exposed to - I have extremely vague memories of the 1990 World Cup but thats more due to the reactions of those around me more than the football itself - I was only 3 at the time. But having said that, I would have supported Ireland no matter what, even if they test your patience at times. That still doesnt stop me from following other countries. Ive always liked Holland (got a jersey when I was 10 or 11 and was a huge fan of Patrick Kluivert).

_blank_ · 06-02-2008 12:54PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Des, went to all the home games for the two years they went close. It's not the same thing.

Why is it not remotely similar?

You complain about domestic teams not "creating a buzz".

Shelbourne certainly created a buzz back then. Ten or twelve pages in all the tabs each day, 24,000 people watching in Landsdowne, could have been more.

That IS a buzz.

Jesus, what are your expectations?

PHB · 06-02-2008 12:56PM

Because I have no inherent link to any Irish football club. I have an inherent link to the national team.

Sure I could change nationality, and then maybe change team. But my local football club (which I can't think of unless you count Rovers soon to be built stadium) is not automatically a loyalty for me. As such, they have to attract me. They didn't [that said, they don't exist so thats another issue

]

LuckyLloyd · 06-02-2008 12:59PM

DesF wrote: »

Why is it not remotely similar?

You complain about domestic teams not "creating a buzz".

Shelbourne certainly created a buzz back then. Ten or twelve pages in all the tabs each day, 24,000 people watching in Landsdowne, could have been more.

That IS a buzz.

Jesus, what are your expectations?

Des, you can't be that stupid, right?

- was it the talk of every random you chatted to?
- were people running onto the streets cheering in your area after the Hadjuk game?
- was your local pub filled to the brim with people having a good time during the shelbourne / deportivo game?
- were people generally smiling and in a better than usual mood as you went about your business and you knew it was a direct result of the football?

Nah, your smarter than that and know they're not the same thing.

gimmick · 06-02-2008 01:01PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

When (if ever) was the last time that a domestic league team created anything remotely similar?

When Cork City won the league and could have done the double in 2005, there was a massive buzz around Cork for the few weeks around it. The celebrations in the City the night of the last game of the season made the celebrations had in Cork for Liverpool winning the CL miniscule (and pathetic as well).

LuckyLloyd · 06-02-2008 01:05PM

gimmick wrote: »

When Cork City won the league and could have done the double in 2005, there was a massive buzz around Cork for the few weeks around it. The celebrations in the City the night of the last game of the season made the celebrations had in Cork for Liverpool winning the CL miniscule (and pathetic as well).

Ok fair enough, I'm not going to comment on what goes on in Cork. Your issue is with Cork people who support foreign clubs so. In Dublin, no team has that sort of pull.

SectionF · 06-02-2008 01:13PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Because Ireland are a bad team at the top level, and will remain at the top level. Therefore, they play against good teams - and a run of success (if it happens) will get them to the big show (WC, EC) and it is not completely inconceivable.

A bad eircom league club is a bad club at a bad level in a bad league. And it would take a miraculous run of success to get into the big show (champions league group stages) and it is hard to see happening soon ...

...Simple. If Bohs use the money correctly and identify and implement a good plan over the next 20 years things may change to some extent.

That's a big part of it. It's not about football, it's about spectacle - 'big show' football. Very much part of the Irish sporting psyche, because our football roots are as shallow as a television deal, and we are fodder for whatever bunch of tax-break billionaires sees a market opportunity here.

Let's get some cheerleaders in and ask health hooligan Mary Harney along.

_blank_ · 06-02-2008 01:16PM

SectionF wrote: »

health hooligan

rofl

LuckyLloyd · 06-02-2008 01:19PM

SectionF wrote: »

That's a big part of it. It's not about football, it's about spectacle - 'big show' football. Very much part of the Irish sporting psyche, because our football roots are as shallow as a television deal, and we are fodder for whatever bunch of tax-break billionaires sees a market opportunity here.

Let's get some cheerleaders in and ask health hooligan Mary Harney along.

Well, what do you expect? This isn't our national sport.

_blank_ · 06-02-2008 01:22PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Well, what do you expect? This isn't our national sport.

Get out of it now.

The Gah is the same.

Tens of thousands for the "glamour games" in Croker, Pairc Ui Caoimh, Semple and the likes in the Summer, sweet fúck all at the National League games in the Winter.

"Big Day Out" to see De Dubz three or four times a summer, when the sun is shining, and they couldn't give a shiney shíte about them the rest of the year.

It's the very same. "Were you at de match the weekend?" "Ah yeah, great craic watchin' De Hill, it was"

It's so they can say they were there. Nothing else.

homerjay2005 · 06-02-2008 01:25PM

would have thought this is simple really for most.

i support ireland cos i was born here and i will always suport my country.
i support united cos my parents emigrated there in the early 70's for a few years and me dad was a season ticket holder. i grew up supporting united, as do my whole family.

i dont have a local team to support as eircom league is not in my area, but even if it was, the family affinity to united may have still been stronger.

im sure theres alot of irish people in a similar boat, so that should answer the question.

LuckyLloyd · 06-02-2008 01:29PM

DesF wrote: »

Get out of it now.

The Gah is the same.

Tens of thousands for the "glamour games" in Croker, Pairc Ui Caoimh, Semple and the likes in the Summer, sweet fúck all at the National League games in the Winter.

"Big Day Out" to see De Dubz three or four times a summer, when the sun is shining, and they couldn't give a shiney shíte about them the rest of the year.

It's the very same. "Were you at de match the weekend?" "Ah yeah, great craic watchin' De Hill, it was"

It's so they can say they were there. Nothing else.

Oops, Des, wrong again. Compare the average attendances for national league games at Parnell park with the average attendances for any Dublin EL side for league games. See what you find.

_blank_ · 06-02-2008 01:33PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Oops, Des, wrong again. Compare the average attendances for national league games at Parnell park with the average attendances for any Dublin EL side for league games. See what you find.

I wasn't comparing the two, so your smartarsery is kinda foolish tbh.

Compare the average attendance at Dublin Games in the summer to national league games at parnell park, and see what YOU come up with.

Why can't Dublin attract the same crowd to league games?

Answer : Not enough glamour, no attraction, nothing to talk about on a monday morning by the water cooler, nothing to show off about.

LuckyLloyd · 06-02-2008 01:34PM

DesF wrote: »

I wasn't comparing the two, so your smartarsery is kinda foolish tbh.

Compare the average attendance at Dublin Games in the summer to national league games at parnell park, and see what YOU come up with.

Why can't Dublin attract the same crowd to league games?

Answer : Not enough glamour, no attraction, nothing to talk about on a monday morning by the water cooler, nothing to show off about.

Yeah, yeah, yeah - but the off peak is still a lot stronger than the EL. The point is that the roots and interest of the national sport do go much deeper than football in this country. With the exception being the national team post 1988.

SectionF · 06-02-2008 01:34PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Well, what do you expect? This isn't our national sport.

You're quite right there. It's not. I suppose GAA is, God love us.
Yet our massive sense of footballing entitlement sends us into a quite hilarious lather when our beloved boys in green don't deliver for us in this horrible non-Gaelic game.
Don't get me wrong. I'm a Leeds fan (as I always have to point out in these discussions), but at this point we are a quite pathetic bunch of footballing pygmies strutting around in our ManU, Celtic and Ireland shirts, cheering on our little counties in the summer.

_blank_ · 06-02-2008 01:37PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Yeah, yeah, yeah -

nice counter there, I'm astounded actually.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

but the off peak is still a lot stronger than the EL.

What does that have to do with the price of cabbage? (and Gah folk eat a LOT of cabbage)

Point I was making, which you are avoiding for some reason, is that the majority of Irish people are only interested in the BIG DAY OUT.

The Gah figures prove this.

The 24,000 in Landsdowne for the Shels match prove it.

The 10,000 boxing "enthusiasts" in The Point for Bernard Dunne's title match prove this.

Can you disprove it?

Tusky · 06-02-2008 01:39PM

I pick a new country to support in each big tournament. Usually Spain or Holland. However, if Ireland qualified I would of course, support them. Ireland are our national side, I feel a connection to them. I do not feel a connection to any LOI club.

The point mentioned earlier is a good one. Ireland play good teams and they have a chance to play on the biggest international stages (WC, EC) which is exciting, even if they rarely qualify. LOI doesn't have that, its always going to be small scale football.

DesF wrote: »

Answer : Not enough glamour, no attraction, nothing to talk about on a monday morning by the water cooler, nothing to show off about.

Are you seriously suggesting the only reason, or the main reason even, that people go to big GAA games is to show off and to have something to talk about on a Monday morning ? That is hilarious.

Now I have no interest in GAA and dont go to any games but I would guess that the reason people go to the big games is because they enjoy it and find it entertaining ?

Dont think it has anything to do with 'showing off'.

Jazzy · 06-02-2008 01:44PM

because your actual country is more to you then a club.

clubs are clubs regardless of what country they are int. that just donates what league they play in. a national team is your national team because you are irish, english etc.

its not like ppl are born "Shelbournian" (DesF may argue that) but they are born Irish

Xavi6 · 06-02-2008 01:44PM

I support Australia equally as I do Ireland as it's the country of my birth. Right now I probably support them more if truth be told. Great win tonight!

Anyway, Des is right, Ireland is littered with fair weather's no matter the sport. I went to see Shels play Sunderland in Tolka a year and a half or so ago and it was biggest crowd I'd seen there in a long time, and probably saw more Sunderland jerseys than Shels. We are a nation of that mentality.

homerjay2005 · 06-02-2008 01:45PM

irish people in general tend to be a shower of bandwagon jumpers, it can be applied to all aspects of life, not just sport.

Why Don't Irish Football Fans Support Other Countries?

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